Dairy, yes or no?
Replies
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Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?0 -
bclarke1990 wrote: »Drinking the milk of another species is not only linked to health issues, but it's weird and promotes a lot of suffering. Just drink almond/cashew milk
. Better for you and you're not helping rape cows
Good grief0 -
Cow rape racks, calves being dragged away from mothers after birth and chained close to the ground so the veal meat would be tender, or just hanged with their heads down with throat cut to bleed to death, not to mention how milk is really bad for human body.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?
Look at the things we have done with some dog breeds. Some of them are so utterly inbred they would just go extinct because they can't procreate on their own.
I don't find it hard to believe that we bred cows in such ways they would die without our assistance even if left free and with their offspring.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?
Look at the things we have done with some dog breeds. Some of them are so utterly inbred they would just go extinct because they can't procreate on their own.
I don't find it hard to believe that we bred cows in such ways they would die without our assistance even if left free and with their offspring.
I'm all for releasing cows back into the wild. All 1.8 billion of them.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?
Look at the things we have done with some dog breeds. Some of them are so utterly inbred they would just go extinct because they can't procreate on their own.
I don't find it hard to believe that we bred cows in such ways they would die without our assistance even if left free and with their offspring.
I'm all for releasing cows back into the wild. All 1.8 billion of them.
Cows freak me out
It's the way they stare
They are also related to Dr Who's weeping angels ...they only move towards you when you're not watching them ...and they still stare0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?
Look at the things we have done with some dog breeds. Some of them are so utterly inbred they would just go extinct because they can't procreate on their own.
I don't find it hard to believe that we bred cows in such ways they would die without our assistance even if left free and with their offspring.
I'm all for releasing cows back into the wild. All 1.8 billion of them.
Cows freak me out
It's the way they stare
They are also related to Dr Who's weeping angels ...they only move towards you when you're not watching them ...and they still stare
Ever seen the ankole-watusi?
Pretty amazing. They have them at Thoiry in France. My daughters loved them.
You can buy watusi cheese.0 -
They are Awesome 0
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Of course I'm now humming the Blues Brothers0
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krzysztof1986 wrote: »Cow rape racks, calves being dragged away from mothers after birth and chained close to the ground so the veal meat would be tender, or just hanged with their heads down with throat cut to bleed to death, not to mention how milk is really bad for human body.
Nah.0 -
bclarke1990 wrote: »Drinking the milk of another species is not only linked to health issues, but it's weird and promotes a lot of suffering. Just drink almond/cashew milk. Better for you and you're not helping rape cows
Good grief
Right! :laugh:
And what did an almond do you to you! Squeezing that poor thing to death. So cruel! -.-0 -
Of course I'm now humming the Blues Brothers
Not Elvis & Aerosmith? Milk Cow Blues!
https://youtu.be/MzEcNN6nKXU
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I bloody loved that ..from beginning to end :bigsmile:0
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Fark!
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PikaKnight wrote: »bclarke1990 wrote: »Drinking the milk of another species is not only linked to health issues, but it's weird and promotes a lot of suffering. Just drink almond/cashew milk. Better for you and you're not helping rape cows
Good grief
Right! :laugh:
And what did an almond do you to you! Squeezing that poor thing to death. So cruel! -.-
You don't squeeze almonds, you grind them....
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Having been around milk cows from my birth, I know that indeed certain breeds, i.e. Guernsey, Holstein, Jersey, produce too much milk for a calf to drain the udder. The cows come home, because they want to be milked. Similarly engorgement of breast after human babies are born is treated by pumping. Cows look at sex way differently than humans. If the the female is not fertile, when a bull tries to mount her, she simply walks away. Her primary goal is to reproduce. Truly, I think the personification of animals has been taken to the extreme.
The way we did it down on the farm was we milked a bucket full, then the calf came in and took the rest. Laying hens can produce an egg a day easily with or without the presence of a rooster. Cows milk and chicken eggs are excellent, efficient, nutrient providing foods. We lost more than valuable sources of nutrition when we gave up a system where almost every family had a cow, some chickens, a vegetable patch and an orchard.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »bclarke1990 wrote: »Drinking the milk of another species is not only linked to health issues, but it's weird and promotes a lot of suffering. Just drink almond/cashew milk. Better for you and you're not helping rape cows
Good grief
Right! :laugh:
And what did an almond do you to you! Squeezing that poor thing to death. So cruel! -.-
You don't squeeze almonds, you grind them....
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bclarke1990 wrote: »Drinking the milk of another species is not only linked to health issues
FIFY0 -
daniwilford wrote: »Having been around milk cows from my birth, I know that indeed certain breeds, i.e. Guernsey, Holstein, Jersey, produce too much milk for a calf to drain the udder. The cows come home, because they want to be milked. Similarly engorgement of breast after human babies are born is treated by pumping. Cows look at sex way differently than humans. If the the female is not fertile, when a bull tries to mount her, she simply walks away. Her primary goal is to reproduce. Truly, I think the personification of animals has been taken to the extreme.
The way we did it down on the farm was we milked a bucket full, then the calf came in and took the rest. Laying hens can produce an egg a day easily with or without the presence of a rooster. Cows milk and chicken eggs are excellent, efficient, nutrient providing foods. We lost more than valuable sources of nutrition when we gave up a system where almost every family had a cow, some chickens, a vegetable patch and an orchard.
bravo.0 -
Yes. Absolutely love milk .
As for being bad for you... you can pretty much find an article about any food on the internet telling you it's bad for you.
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I would like to quit dairy myself, but only for ethical reasons.
I do enjoy non-dairy options too, I actually like all the soy, oat, almond, hazelnut etc milks I've tried.
And I like natto, too...
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Unsweetened coconut milk. If I didn't have a lactose sensitivity I wouldn't have quit dairy. I do find that it opened a lot of calories for me!0
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Yes, because we bred them to produce too much milk. Before human intervention and breeding programmes, undomesticated cattle would most likely have produced only enough milk for their own calf.daniwilford wrote: »certain breeds, i.e. Guernsey, Holstein, Jersey, produce too much milk for a calf to drain the udder.
I believe that too, it's a natural instinct of all living creatures. Does that justify exploiting it for our own uses?daniwilford wrote: »Her primary goal is to reproduce.
I think many people who show any degree of concern for the welfare of animals whatsoever are usually accused of anthropomorphism at some point, particularly vegetarians and vegans; however these accusations often come from people with little or no concern for animal welfare themselves but who for some reason hate to see concern displayed by others, and/or the accusations come from people who regard animals more as 'objects' to be used as a commodity than creatures with a right to exist without being subjected to cruelty and exploitation.daniwilford wrote: »Truly, I think the personification of animals has been taken to the extreme.
Ah, down on the farm in the good old days ... farm animals were/are probably treated better when raised that way rather than by large-scale intensive farming, although the majority of male calves would still be surplus to requirements so slaughtered early and cows disposed of when barren or milk yield dropped. But most dairy, meat and eggs are produced differently now so many people have problems with the methods used today and the mistreatment of animals in the process.daniwilford wrote: »The way we did it down on the farm was we milked a bucket full, then the calf came in and took the rest.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Except by selective breeding domestic dairy cows produce far more than is needed by the calf.
https://www.milk.org/Corporate/PDF/Students-FarmCare_DairyCows.pdf
Thirty liters a day, while the calf needs twelve.
In a human female, the milk supply is typically linked to demand. I understand that today's cows may be able to create much more than a calf could drink (due to selective breeding), but are you arguing that if a cow was left with her calf (and not otherwise milked) she would continue to produce much more than the calf could drink, resulting in health problems?
Look at the things we have done with some dog breeds. Some of them are so utterly inbred they would just go extinct because they can't procreate on their own.
I don't find it hard to believe that we bred cows in such ways they would die without our assistance even if left free and with their offspring.
That's really sad. It reminds me of the chickens who can't walk normally because they have been bred to increase the size of certain parts of their body.0 -
The only dog I know of that is so over-bred that it can't deliver on it's own is the English bulldog. And breeding works just fine. It's the delivery because of the over-large head that's a concern. Yes, left to their own devices without human intervention, this conformation would die out in a generation.0
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krzysztof1986 wrote: »Cow rape racks, calves being dragged away from mothers after birth and chained close to the ground so the veal meat would be tender, or just hanged with their heads down with throat cut to bleed to death, not to mention how milk is really bad for human body.
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