Fasting/The juice diet Questions

stevencloser wrote: »

We're not feeling personally attacked, you're just completely wrong on all accounts.

+1...

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I'm not the one that knows all the medical terms or the science behind it. I simply have a list I got from the doctor last week about various kinds of diets, carbs, fats etc. the carb information is on there. I googled it and it said it was right so I don't know what's going on. Someone asked me what they were so I answered. I wasn't looking for snooty comments about the fact I asked about the juice diet, anvilhead. I also never said that eating those made you overweight so I'm not sure why people are saying "I eat those and I'm not overweight". I think dried fruits have to do mostly with the fact that these days, they are heavily processed, filled with sugars and chemical preservatives. And whether people admit it or not, while they may not cause weight gain, refined, bleached, processed and preservative filled flours, sugars, pastas, meats etc. are bad for your health. And I'm in this to increase my overall health permanently and alter my old lifestyle choices. Which is why I will not increase my meat or white flour intake. I'm not sure why people are feeling personally attacked. But I'm sorry if anyone thought I was offending their lifestyle.

Have you worked out how many calories you can each day and still lose weight?

If not, please do that.

Then it is just a case of eating a wide variety of foods. A variety of fresh veg, fresh fruits, fats, proteins.

Keep an eye on your protein, fat and fibre intake as these are what make you feel full. Juicing reduces or doesn't contain these in the right amounts that is why you are better to eat them.

Then fill in your remaining calories with any thing you like, that can include ice cream, doughnuts anything really that you like. There are no bad foods.

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I simply have a list I got from the doctor last week about various kinds of diets, carbs, fats etc. the carb information is on there.

These lists are oversimplifications based on an assumption that people aren't informed about nutrition and that teaching them to be informed is too difficult, and that they eat the SAD (lots of fatty meat, sugary treats, and ultra processed grains, few fruits and veg). They aren't necessarily helpful to those who do not and, more significantly, wouldn't you want to actually understand the nutrition and make truly sensible choices for you based on that? Personally, approaching it in a dumbed down way has always offended me, so I made sure to learn about and understand the reasons and evidence behind the simplified recommendations (which aren't to cut things out except sometimes because doctors believe no one can be trusted, as when 1000 calories are recommended with a belief that someone will really be eating 1500 or the like -- again, which would bother me as a patient, as I'd rather learn to do things right, not be treated like someone who can't be trusted).

Also, recommendations to cut out dried fruit normally come along with recommendations to cut out or strictly limit juice. (The reason for the dried fruit thing is just that it has more calories per volume than non dried fruits and is really easy to overeat. Sure, some might also have added sugar -- although it's easy just to read a package and avoid those and quite easy to dry fruit at home, as my mother used to do -- but that's a dumb reason to ban all dried fruit even if one were avoiding all added sugar, which isn't necessary, although limiting it is sensible.)

Similarly generalizing about all grains being bad because you should limit your consumption of pastries or other refined grain products seems odd. Most doctors (unless they are low carb fanatics, I guess) aren't going to say steel cut oats or even whole grain bread or, say, roasted potatoes or sweet potatoes are foods to avoid. That's really out of the mainstream.

brianpperkins wrote: »

Annie_01 wrote: »

FunkyTobias wrote: »

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I'm not the one that knows all the medical terms or the science behind it.

Then you should probably stop talking about things you don't understand

Really???

We should limit our conversations to only things that we are experts on? Is this the rule for MFP or does it apply to life in general?

Surely somewhere along the way you have discussed subjects...at least once...that you were not an expert in.

While I don't agree with your comment to the OP I did find it rather amusing that someone even dare to make that comment to someone!

There is a difference between being an expert in a subject and not understanding it at all.

J72FIT wrote: »

Annie_01 wrote: »

FunkyTobias wrote: »

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I'm not the one that knows all the medical terms or the science behind it.

Then you should probably stop talking about things you don't understand

Really???

We should limit our conversations to only things that we are experts on? Is this the rule for MFP or does it apply to life in general?

If you are going to state your opinions as fact with no room for a change of stance then yes...

Annie_01 wrote: »

Surely somewhere along the way you have discussed subjects...at least once...that you were not an expert in.

Of course. But that can only happen when you are open to the opinions of others...

I went back and read all of her posts. Other than her opinions on good/bad carbs she mostly asked questions or expressed her confusion.

Well...as much as I might enjoy this type of conversations...I suppose it is off-topic so...thank you for responding and I will just move on.

lemurcat12 wrote: »

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I simply have a list I got from the doctor last week about various kinds of diets, carbs, fats etc. the carb information is on there.

These lists are oversimplifications based on an assumption that people aren't informed about nutrition and that teaching them to be informed is too difficult, and that they eat the SAD (lots of fatty meat, sugary treats, and ultra processed grains, few fruits and veg). They aren't necessarily helpful to those who do not and, more significantly, wouldn't you want to actually understand the nutrition and make truly sensible choices for you based on that? Personally, approaching it in a dumbed down way has always offended me, so I made sure to learn about and understand the reasons and evidence behind the simplified recommendations (which aren't to cut things out except sometimes because doctors believe no one can be trusted, as when 1000 calories are recommended with a belief that someone will really be eating 1500 or the like -- again, which would bother me as a patient, as I'd rather learn to do things right, not be treated like someone who can't be trusted).

Also, recommendations to cut out dried fruit normally come along with recommendations to cut out or strictly limit juice. (The reason for the dried fruit thing is just that it has more calories per volume than non dried fruits and is really easy to overeat. Sure, some might also have added sugar -- although it's easy just to read a package and avoid those and quite easy to dry fruit at home, as my mother used to do -- but that's a dumb reason to ban all dried fruit even if one were avoiding all added sugar, which isn't necessary, although limiting it is sensible.)

Similarly generalizing about all grains being bad because you should limit your consumption of pastries or other refined grain products seems odd. Most doctors (unless they are low carb fanatics, I guess) aren't going to say steel cut oats or even whole grain bread or, say, roasted potatoes or sweet potatoes are foods to avoid. That's really out of the mainstream.

I agree...I think that most doctors through experience believe that their patients won't do the work required so it is easier just to tell them...don't eat this...don't eat that...

My GP did that when he was discussing sodium restrictions with me. He had a whole list of things not to eat. When he was finished I asked him...how many sodium mgs...the look on his face was priceless. His response was...no need to worry about that...just don't eat and then he started through his list of restrictions again. Now I just nod my head and go about my business of fitting some of those foods in to my diet when I have the room to.

I also think some of it is due to time constraints...to fully explain nutrition to a patient would require more time than what they allot.

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I can actually post links in here proving that refined, processed foods and fast food as well as too much meat is causing the obesity and type 2 diabetes crisis in America.

Would love to see them...

Sorry, fasts / cleanses / magic pills / magic shakes are all gimmicks. Exercise, eat at a reasonable caloric deficit, balance your macros, and go about your living your life...

stevencloser wrote: »

J72FIT wrote: »

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I can actually post links in here proving that refined, processed foods and fast food as well as too much meat is causing the obesity and type 2 diabetes crisis in America.

Would love to see them...

10 bucks says it's Taubes.

and blog posts

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

Yes and I was ok with being wrong. I never pressed the point. But you keep nitpicking at it because of some superiority complex that won't let you stop harassing people.

That's a big assumption...

kyukiyoshida wrote: »

I also find it sad that you do not know the health concerns about people eating processed and fast foods. I guess the obesity crises and all these people getting diabetes. Is just happening, and your health is totally not related to the kinds of food you eat. http://www.news-medical.net/health/Obesity-and-Fast-Food.aspx. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/.

From your first link:

Studies have shown that this rise of obesity among the world population could be attributed to an increase in calorie intake coupled with lack of adequate physical activity.

It doesn't say anything about 'processed' food, and only mentions that 'fast' food is a problem because:

It is well known that eating out may lead to excess calorie intake and increases the risk of obesity because of large portion sizes and increased energy density of foods.

From your second link:

At its most basic, of course, obesity results when someone regularly takes in more calories than needed

it mentions nothing at all about 'processed' or 'fast' food.