Fat sick and nearly dead
Replies
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Watch the sequel. Joe and Phil both get fat again. Super expensive too and you waste all that good fiber in the produce!0
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How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.0
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realityfades wrote: »How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.
Considering bariatric surgery is medically prescribed and the follow up is medically supervised and what Joe did was neither, your post crumbles quickly.0 -
DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
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I'm vegan and I truly love my plant-based diet. If it is something you are remotely interested in, I encourage you to investigate it. That said, while I admire Joe's dedication to getting healthy, his actions were very extreme. Juicing to that extent is just not necessary for the majority of us.0
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Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.0 -
Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/0 -
mellowadam wrote: »Watch the sequel. Joe and Phil both get fat again. Super expensive too and you waste all that good fiber in the produce!
I knew Phil gained all his weight back, but Joe too?!
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roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.0 -
0
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roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/233325410 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So, it's a temporary high, and should be medically supervised. Got it.0 -
realityfades wrote: »How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.
Not sure where the comparison to bariatric surgery comes in, but what I'd like people to learn (and what I tried to learn myself) is what a healthful, nutritious, and satisfying diet involves. Something like juicing -- which does not cover all the necessary aspects of a good diet (short in protein and healthy fats and fiber) or teach you how to eat on a regular basis (I'm certainly not eating only liquid fruits and veg all my life) and which seems designed to be super low in calories -- IMO falls way short of what you need to understand nutrition. So even as to something like being aware of food choices I don't think it's a very sensible approach. It also creates this false dichotomy that juicing is the healthiest of choices, when it is not. One can make good choices and have a very healthful diet with no juicing at all (like I said above, I think eating lots of plants is great, but I don't think juicing them is the best approach and some are better cooked).0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
A juice fast for 60 days isn't remotely like IFing.
(I don't yet buy that IFing is more beneficial than other ways of eating, but I think it's a perfectly good way to eat and not at all unhealthy. Juice fasting for 60 days seems a good way to suffer the effects of an extreme calorie cut or to become deficient in protein/healthy fats. Probably people will usually quit before too long, but unlike IF I see no evidence that it's a good way to sustainably lose weight.)
Short term fasts, whatever, they are fine. I usually do a full fast on Good Friday and Ash Wednesday.0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.0 -
I think there are too many things happening in this thread. The juicing done in the film the thread is based on was 60 days, and is not the same as intermittent fasting. IF is a fine way of eating if you're doing it properly for the right reasons. I would strongly hesitate to promote it for mood stability though because depression mood disorders are nothing to mess with unless a doc is involved.
Annnnd back to topic.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.0 -
I think there are too many things happening in this thread. The juicing done in the film the thread is based on was 60 days, and is not the same as intermittent fasting. IF is a fine way of eating if you're doing it properly for the right reasons. I would strongly hesitate to promote it for mood stability though because depression mood disorders are nothing to mess with unless a doc is involved.
Good point.0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.
So, in context , there isn't the evidence you claimed.0 -
Well I do not have a scientific answer I do know for me personally having food issues and say I'm binging on sweets etc sometimes for me to do a juice fast will take away the desire to consume mindlessly and help to correct my food obsessive thoughts. If you fast correctly you should never be hungry either but the aspect most don't think about is being psychologically ready to do it. You end up feeling really good and it resets your thinking on food and to treat food as a fuel not pleasure. But that's what I find for me. And it's like doing a tune up for the body.MommyL2015 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Yes I understand that. I have juice fasted before and it is really more of a tool to get back on track and reduce cravings for me personally anyway
This isn't a knock on anyone, it's just a curiosity I have. I have never done any kind of juice fast or whatever before, but knowing me and the way I am, I fail to see how fasting for any length of time by just drinking juice can reduce cravings? I know I've been in positions before in the past where I did not have a lot of food and was endlessly hungry. I just think it would have the opposite effect?
When I'm really hungry, I want anything and everything, especially if it's a donut or cake or is fried in some way. I could only imagine that when I came off of a fast, the first thing I would do is find a whale and eat it raw, then stumble my way into to a bakery.
I don't understand how such heavy calorie and nutrient restriction would do anything but cause me to turn into a ravaged, hungry zombie.
I do kind of adhere to a intermittent fasting situation, where I don't eat anything usually until around noon, 1:00 and I'm generally done eating by about 6 or 7, but that's a natural situation for me and I've never been a big breakfast eater. I'm not insanely hungry by lunch either. However, if I tried to do this for an entire 24 hours or more, having nothing but a glass of juice or three, someone would have to quickly call the men in the white coats to come and take me away. And bring cake.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »realityfades wrote: »How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.
Not sure where the comparison to bariatric surgery comes in, but what I'd like people to learn (and what I tried to learn myself) is what a healthful, nutritious, and satisfying diet involves. Something like juicing -- which does not cover all the necessary aspects of a good diet (short in protein and healthy fats and fiber) or teach you how to eat on a regular basis (I'm certainly not eating only liquid fruits and veg all my life) and which seems designed to be super low in calories -- IMO falls way short of what you need to understand nutrition. So even as to something like being aware of food choices I don't think it's a very sensible approach. It also creates this false dichotomy that juicing is the healthiest of choices, when it is not. One can make good choices and have a very healthful diet with no juicing at all (like I said above, I think eating lots of plants is great, but I don't think juicing them is the best approach and some are better cooked).
I compared it to batriatric surgery because before, you have to eat a very low calorie diet in order to lose as much weight as possible. Yes it is medically supervised but I am sure that Joe also had a doctor and health professionals looking after him as well.
Maybe we take away different things from the documentary. To me, it was about Joe making different choices that he thought was right for him. And it worked for a while. He gained the weight back but that's because he probably started eating the way he did before the documentary, much like many of us who have lost weight and regained it. Never once did I get the message that the only way to lose weight is to juice, because I also watched Fat Head and other docs.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.
So, in context , there isn't the evidence you claimed.
The claim was that fasting improved mental health, am I missing something? Mood disorders are mental disorders?0 -
realityfades wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »realityfades wrote: »How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.
Not sure where the comparison to bariatric surgery comes in, but what I'd like people to learn (and what I tried to learn myself) is what a healthful, nutritious, and satisfying diet involves. Something like juicing -- which does not cover all the necessary aspects of a good diet (short in protein and healthy fats and fiber) or teach you how to eat on a regular basis (I'm certainly not eating only liquid fruits and veg all my life) and which seems designed to be super low in calories -- IMO falls way short of what you need to understand nutrition. So even as to something like being aware of food choices I don't think it's a very sensible approach. It also creates this false dichotomy that juicing is the healthiest of choices, when it is not. One can make good choices and have a very healthful diet with no juicing at all (like I said above, I think eating lots of plants is great, but I don't think juicing them is the best approach and some are better cooked).
I compared it to batriatric surgery because before, you have to eat a very low calorie diet in order to lose as much weight as possible. Yes it is medically supervised but I am sure that Joe also had a doctor and health professionals looking after him as well.
The average person inspired by the documentary does not, and the surgery diet is quite different than the juicing diet (I believe the usual doctor-supervised VLCD is high in protein, anyway).He gained the weight back but that's because he probably started eating the way he did before the documentary, much like many of us who have lost weight and regained it.
But this is precisely the problem with the idea that one does a specific (VLC) diet to lose vs. understanding how to eat well in a way that would be sustainable or understanding nutrition. I see so many people at MFP who seem to think juicing (or just fruits and veg) good, other foods bad, which makes it much harder for them to imagine a healthful (and calorie appropriate) diet they could enjoy as an overall lifestyle.0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.
So, in context , there isn't the evidence you claimed.
The claim was that fasting improved mental health, am I missing something? Mood disorders are mental disorders?
Mood disorders are a very specific diagnosis and cannot be applied to all mental health.
Let's take this back on topic.0 -
DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
For me it is for rebalancing the body mind and spirit. It helps me get back in balance when I feel I have gone off the rails diet wise. I am talking a few days of juice or semi soft foods. My digestive system needs a break from food sometimes esp since I have digestive problems and it works for me. My dr recommends I do it when I feel in my body I need to. It is not for weight loss but "health reasons" I'm not talking vlcd either I make sure to have 1200 cals when I do it as well. But to each their own I know there are benefits as I am an experienced juicer but interesting to see what others consider it to be.0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.
So, in context , there isn't the evidence you claimed.
The claim was that fasting improved mental health, am I missing something? Mood disorders are mental disorders?
Mood disorders are a very specific diagnosis and cannot be applied to all mental health.
Let's take this back on topic.
Appreciate that but that's not to say it can't be applied to other disorders. Anyway...0 -
realityfades wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »realityfades wrote: »How is what Joe did any different than something like bariatric surgery? I don't think juicing all your meals is the best thing in the world but if someone takes away from the movie that whole fruits and veg > junk food then good for them. I don't think the point of the documentary was for everyone to follow what Joe did, it was meant to make people more aware of their food choices.
Not sure where the comparison to bariatric surgery comes in, but what I'd like people to learn (and what I tried to learn myself) is what a healthful, nutritious, and satisfying diet involves. Something like juicing -- which does not cover all the necessary aspects of a good diet (short in protein and healthy fats and fiber) or teach you how to eat on a regular basis (I'm certainly not eating only liquid fruits and veg all my life) and which seems designed to be super low in calories -- IMO falls way short of what you need to understand nutrition. So even as to something like being aware of food choices I don't think it's a very sensible approach. It also creates this false dichotomy that juicing is the healthiest of choices, when it is not. One can make good choices and have a very healthful diet with no juicing at all (like I said above, I think eating lots of plants is great, but I don't think juicing them is the best approach and some are better cooked).
I compared it to batriatric surgery because before, you have to eat a very low calorie diet in order to lose as much weight as possible. Yes it is medically supervised but I am sure that Joe also had a doctor and health professionals looking after him as well.
Maybe we take away different things from the documentary. To me, it was about Joe making different choices that he thought was right for him. And it worked for a while. He gained the weight back but that's because he probably started eating the way he did before the documentary, much like many of us who have lost weight and regained it. Never once did I get the message that the only way to lose weight is to juice, because I also watched Fat Head and other docs.
I think the answer here is to go deeper. Why did Joe go back to the way he ate before he started juicing?
One of the issues I have with resorting to these sorts of measures to "kickstart" yourself is that you're essentially using band-aids to avoid dealing with the real underlying issue. By giving yourself something to "do" you can lull yourself into believing you're handling things.
Meanwhile?
The issues that really underlie all of your problems remain unaddressed.
I'll go back your parallel with bariatric patients. I knew two people online who had bariatric surgery. One entered a very good program for her surgery. The other didn't. The one who entered the good program was involved in a lot of counseling in addition to the preliminary weight loss. In the aftermath of her procedure, she was prepared for the challenge of eating in a different way and for having a different relationship with food.
She has maintained her weight loss.
The other person didn't fare so well. Her program, while it did have some counseling, made it easy for the people in the program to fake their way through that part because they were focused on making money. As soon as she could after the surgery, she was figuring out ways to game her food, and it wasn't long before she started putting weight back on.
A lot of dialog takes place on these boards regarding what people do to lose weight, but I think that a lot more attention needs to be paid to the "inside" game of weight loss.
In the end, Joe was looking in the wrong place for answers, plain and simple.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
For me it is for rebalancing the body mind and spirit. It helps me get back in balance when I feel I have gone off the rails diet wise. I am talking a few days of juice or semi soft foods. My digestive system needs a break from food sometimes esp since I have digestive problems and it works for me. My dr recommends I do it when I feel in my body I need to. It is not for weight loss but "health reasons" I'm not talking vlcd either I make sure to have 1200 cals when I do it as well. But to each their own I know there are benefits as I am an experienced juicer but interesting to see what others consider it to be.
If your digestive system "needs a break from food" then you should see a doctor for a life threatening condition.0 -
roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Optimistical1 wrote: »DancesWithDogz wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »How does fasting help for "health reasons"?
following... I want to hear the answer to this one too. Fasting in general, is not healthy...
Ummmmm......no. Fasting is fantastic for your physical and mental health. There are studies all over the place.
Fantastic? It's mentally healthy to be hungry? No.
Although not many studies exist there is evidence intermittent fasting is good for neurotransmitters, specially serotonin and norepinephrine.
There's isn't many sources but an interesting read
http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/can-intermittent-fasting-improve-mood/
I'll stick to medical and scientific sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23332541
So only for those with diagnosed mood disorders? That is what the study you linked is about.
Yeah I appreciate it's taken slightly out of context, I did mention not many true sources do exist currently.
So, in context , there isn't the evidence you claimed.
The claim was that fasting improved mental health, am I missing something? Mood disorders are mental disorders?
Mood disorders are a very specific diagnosis and cannot be applied to all mental health.
Let's take this back on topic.
Appreciate that but that's not to say it can't be applied to other disorders. Anyway...
I strongly disagree. That's like saying "this medication works for depression, lets treat bipolar and personality disorder with it, too!"
0 -
The Broscience of Juice Cleanses
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Juice Fasts: The False Science Behind Juicing
https://prezi.com/hpj9ekkconhr/juice-fasts-the-false-science-behind-juicing/0
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