Study finds vegetarian diets may actually be worse for the environment
AnvilHead
Posts: 18,343 Member
Replies
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Funny but awhile back I made mention that switching to a vegetarian only diet for all Americans would probably cause more methane gas, but had not real proof to back it.
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Remember, cows have been known to spontaneously explode...
Lions, never...0 -
Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.0
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Do you have the original article ? The blog is more than a bit silly since vegetarians do not replace animal products with only or even mostly lettuce. E.g., most of my calories are from lentils and soy beans.
The general ecological argument, which IS true, is that the foods grown and fed to animals are much better utilized as direct foods to humanity. For example, eat corn rather than feeding it to animals that are later butchered. Less misery and much more environmentally sound. I've calculated the conversion efficiency of grains to consumable animal products before; if memory serves me it is ~ 1:7
Thin_Beauty94, you are on the right side of this argument, which mostly is a troll thread to begin with.0 -
Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
I think his point was an often used argument for vegetarianism is that it is better for the environment.
But I can't speak for the OP...0 -
Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
My point? I didn't write the article or the studies, so I'm just putting it out there for discussion. But with that said...3dogsrunning wrote: »I think his point was an often used argument for vegetarianism is that it is better for the environment.
But I can't speak for the OP...
That argument (rather, the fallacy thereof) did cross my mind as I read it.0 -
Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.0 -
PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.0 -
TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
but...it doesn't look delicious! Steak tartares and oysters, snails and roaches, pungent game meat and fatty beef steaks and veals, bloody sausages',unidentified meats nuggets and hot-dogs...0 -
Here is a link to the study's abstract:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10669-015-9577-y
Energy use, blue water footprint, and greenhouse gas emissions for current food consumption patterns and dietary recommendations in the USThese perhaps counterintuitive results are primarily due to USDA recommendations for greater Caloric intake of fruits, vegetables, dairy, and fish/seafood, which have relatively high resource use and emissions per Calorie.0 -
TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
Vitamin B and iron deficiencies are not inevitable for vegetarians. Many people who don't eat meat or animal products have perfectly fine levels of B vitamins and iron (including myself).
And we also eat plenty of delicious food. I'm sure you enjoy some non-meat foods occasionally yourself.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
Vitamin B and iron deficiencies are not inevitable for vegetarians. Many people who don't eat meat or animal products have perfectly fine levels of B vitamins and iron (including myself).
And we also eat plenty of delicious food. I'm sure you enjoy some non-meat foods occasionally yourself.
I was being tongue in cheek and facetious. I am aware of all of those things. Most people I know who are vegetarian are trenditarians, and don't do the proper research to find out how to eat a diet our bodies aren't ideally adapted for and how to make up for what a diet will lack when you eliminate meat and end up sick and anemic. To those who take the time to do it right, good on you. I'll continue to enjoy a balanced diet of meats and vegetables and a few grains.0 -
TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
but...it doesn't look delicious! Steak tartares and oysters, snails and roaches, pungent game meat and fatty beef steaks and veals, bloody sausages',unidentified meats nuggets and hot-dogs...
They're mostly snouts and entrails.0 -
TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
Vitamin B and iron deficiencies are not inevitable for vegetarians. Many people who don't eat meat or animal products have perfectly fine levels of B vitamins and iron (including myself).
And we also eat plenty of delicious food. I'm sure you enjoy some non-meat foods occasionally yourself.
I was being tongue in cheek and facetious. I am aware of all of those things. Most people I know who are vegetarian are trenditarians, and don't do the proper research to find out how to eat a diet our bodies aren't ideally adapted for and how to make up for what a diet will lack when you eliminate meat and end up sick and anemic. To those who take the time to do it right, good on you. I'll continue to enjoy a balanced diet of meats and vegetables and a few grains.
That's unfortunate for the people that you know. Fortunately, we have evidence from multiple cultures that long-term health is as possible for those who avoid meat as it is for those who eat it. I'll continue to enjoy a balanced diet of vegetables, fruits, grains, beans, and other plant foods.
Since many people tend to assume that vegetarians or vegans are deficient in certain vitamins or minerals, it's difficult to tell when people are being tongue-in-cheek or not, especially when they tend to base their conclusions on the vegetarians and vegans they have personally met instead of the studies that have been done on larger populations or the larger community of those avoiding meat or animal products. I apologize for taking your comment at face value.0 -
TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
I'm not a vegetarian, but I find couscous and tabouli to be much tastier than steak, stuffed turkey or fried chicken, and don't even get me started on bacon.0 -
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TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you could only eat rabbit food.
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TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you could only eat rabbit food.
Seriously now.. is pizza margarita rabbit food? What about apple pie, ice cream, chocolate mousse cake, mac and cheese, french fries, all kinds of pies and brownies, risotto, pancakes, falafel sandwiches, flavorful grilled veggies, cream of mushroom soup, caprese salad, herbed mushroom ragout, pesto pasta... and the list goes on.
Vegetarian dishes can be just as indulgent and flavorful as meat dishes, and in many cases just as high in calories.
Now I don't subscribe to the notion that vegetarian eating is somehow better for you but straw men tend to grind my gears.0 -
but...it doesn't look delicious! Steak tartares and oysters, snails and roaches, pungent game meat and fatty beef steaks and veals, bloody sausages',unidentified meats nuggets and hot-dogs...
YES IT DOES! Well, everything but the snails and roaches. But I don't often see roaches on the menu - where did you get that?
That is one odd list of meat.
But apparently some do eat cockroaches:Cockroach: Yes, you can eat cockroaches! Just not the ones you find around your house. Contrary to popular belief, cockroaches can actually be very clean and tasty insects, especially if they are fed on fresh fruits and vegetables. They can be eaten toasted, fried, sauteed, or boiled. Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches have a taste and texture like greasy chicken.
https://edibug.wordpress.com/list-of-edible-insects/
This is my new thing I've learned today!
Anyway, I think the people dissing the vegetarian diet AND those dissing the omnivorous diet are both being silly. People's tastes differ, and obviously one can have a delicious and healthy diet as a vegetarian. Most vegetarians I know (if we are going to use anecdotes) probably eat better than the non-vegetarians I know, since they are on average more thoughtful about it. (The non-vegetarians vary a lot, some care about nutrition a lot, some less so.)0 -
Animals are filthy creatures who can and do kill humans every day, so I'm going to eat them to protect y'all.
You're welcome.0 -
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I sense a closed thread... Why are some topics so flammable? Want to eat meat, indulge yourself. Don't want to eat meat, by all means indulge yourself. It doesn't have to come with a value judgement.0
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ericGold15 wrote: »
No, you were being a twit, and you remain ignorant.TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »I was being tongue in cheek and facetious. ... ... don't do the proper research to find out how to eat a diet our bodies aren't ideally adapted for and how to make up for what a diet will lack when you eliminate meat and end up sick and anemic.
It is a moronic conceit to think that a meat diet that introduces toxic amounts of cholesterol and saturated fats into the body, not to mention western meat addled antibiotics, synthetic hormones, copious salt, and whatever else a manufacturer does to increase profit, is in any way an ideal food.
Consider one possible trade-off: I eat a vitamin pill a day that costs a few pennies to not have to consider B12, and in return I suffer none of above-mentioned garbage or add more misery to this world.
You're the kind of vegetarian that makes people hate vegetarians. My veggie friends wish you would stop giving them a bad name, please.
If you were to look at actual science, you would know that cholesterol has very little to do with diet. Some of the people in the best health are those who do keto. Keto is very high fat, including saturated fat. Now, it's possible (but difficult!) to do vegetarian keto, but most on keto do eat a fair amount of meat. Again, one of the most highly praised ways of eating is high protein low carb. Meat based diets. It's actually very healthy if you do it right. Being a vegetarian is also very healthy if you do it right. It's down to the individual and their knowledge of what they need.
Why do you assume that all omnivores eat meat that 'addled with antibiotics, synthetic hormones, salt etc'? That's completely false and I think you know it. You treat an animal with antibiotics to stop it getting diseases. They have long left the animal's flesh by the time it's killed. The very very tiny trace amounts of hormones are hundreds of times smaller than the amount of hormones our body produces just by itself.
I also suffer none of 'the above-mentioned garbage'. Most omnivores don't. And in fact, a vegetarian diet would make me sick (for various medical reasons). Who's got the toxic diet now, eh? It's down to the individual!
As for the new report? Doesn't surprise me one bit. Animals can be grazed on land that is not suitable as crop land. They can be fed with feed from poor-quality land that will never be up to human standard. Crops take up more space than animals (so cut down more natural forest etc... big problem right now is rainforest housing orangutans being cut down for land to grow palm oil (used as vegetarian and vegan substitute in many foods) and soy) require more water, and kill more wildlife because of the machines used which grind up the rabbits, mice etc that live in the fields, which are then food for owls and the like and the whole food chain gets affected. Add to that calorie needs. Out of one pig you can probably get more calories than a whole field of lettuce. Vegetarian or omnivore our calorie needs are the same. A vegetarian needs to eat a lot more to get the right calories.
I think we all, vegetarian, vegan or omnivore, need to consider more carefully how our food impacts the planet. I'm lucky that I live in a farming area and can buy local, most of the time.0 -
but...it doesn't look delicious! Steak tartares and oysters, snails and roaches, pungent game meat and fatty beef steaks and veals, bloody sausages',unidentified meats nuggets and hot-dogs...
YES IT DOES! Well, everything but the snails and roaches. But I don't often see roaches on the menu - where did you get that?
Hey. I'll take the snails since you don't want them - and eat them with a garlic, butter, and parsley sauce.
There aren't many restaurants that serve escargot around here, and the one I know that does has an ... unusual ... menu so you really have to be in the mood. I only get them once a year or so. They seem to have gone out of fashion.0 -
Ya Veggies give me gas too..0
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Speak for yourself, if you cannot contain the urge. But don't do it for me, since I could not care less.MarziPanda95 wrote: »You're the kind of vegetarian... ...
I did not start this troll thread;
I am not the one throwing out snide insults;
Or FUD.
And I don't have to rationalize my lifestyle or treatment of life.
I am quite able and willing, however, to stomp on any turkeys who feel the need to belittle vegetarians or a plant based diet.
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but...it doesn't look delicious! Steak tartares and oysters, snails and roaches, pungent game meat and fatty beef steaks and veals, bloody sausages',unidentified meats nuggets and hot-dogs...
YES IT DOES! Well, everything but the snails and roaches. But I don't often see roaches on the menu - where did you get that?
Hey. I'll take the snails since you don't want them - and eat them with a garlic, butter, and parsley sauce.
There aren't many restaurants that serve escargot around here, and the one I know that does has an ... unusual ... menu so you really have to be in the mood. I only get them once a year or so. They seem to have gone out of fashion.
They aren't that obscure around here, although mostly at French places. I love them and usually get them when they are available, and am always surprised that some think they are weird.0 -
so agreed. I live in a conscientious community where it's easy to get local food. Also, many of the farms try to minimize the impact on the environment. not all areas do so.MarziPanda95 wrote: »
As for the new report? Doesn't surprise me one bit. Animals can be grazed on land that is not suitable as crop land. They can be fed with feed from poor-quality land that will never be up to human standard. Crops take up more space than animals (so cut down more natural forest etc... big problem right now is rainforest housing orangutans being cut down for land to grow palm oil (used as vegetarian and vegan substitute in many foods) and soy) require more water, and kill more wildlife because of the machines used which grind up the rabbits, mice etc that live in the fields, which are then food for owls and the like and the whole food chain gets affected. Add to that calorie needs. Out of one pig you can probably get more calories than a whole field of lettuce. Vegetarian or omnivore our calorie needs are the same. A vegetarian needs to eat a lot more to get the right calories.
I think we all, vegetarian, vegan or omnivore, need to consider more carefully how our food impacts the planet. I'm lucky that I live in a farming area and can buy local, most of the time.
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TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »Your point? I'm a proud vegetarian and don't care what others think of it. It's my choice and if anyone has a playing they can screw themselves. I don't care.
Maybe he's just sharing an interesting article? Why so hostile? He's not telling anyone to stop being a vegetarian. Sheesh.
You'd be hostile, too, if you were vitamin B, and iron deficient. Imagine seeing everyone eating delicious food and you're there with your couscous and tabouli smoothie. Hostility.
:laugh:0
This discussion has been closed.
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