"Heavy" lifter....body pump kicked my butt!
chrysalis2015
Posts: 212 Member
So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
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Any time you do a new form of exercise you are going to find it challenging.
As for looking like those women, you said that you are overweight and they are not. Clearly that makes a difference. The form of exercise you're doing matters less than the excess fat right now.0 -
I would say it depends on what is most important to you and what you enjoy. I love lifting heavy. I've never enjoyed any other exercise as much before and it makes me feel great. So, for me, it is the right thing to do. But you don't have to do it if you don't enjoy it and/or it isn't helping you reach your goals.
You can also add push ups and dips into your lifting programme if those are things you want to do. I am doing band assisted push ups and chins in order to build the strength to be able to do them unassisted. I do them alongside my squats and deadlifts.0 -
Body pump and lifting heavy are two different things. Body Pump is going to be more endurance/cardio, which you won't train at all by doing sets of 5, so lifting heavy doesn't necessarily carry over.
Push ups are slightly different. If you can bench your body weight you should be able to knock out 10-20 push ups in your first set, but I have no clue how far along you are in your training. If you can only bench 75lb and you weigh 175lb you won't be able to do a proper push up. I just got to 180lb bench and weigh 176lb and can do 20 push ups in a set, but my endurance quickly trails off and I can't do 5 sets of 20.
As for looking like those women, eat at a deficit and continue to lift heavy and you'll probably look better if you like defined muscles. If you just want to be thin, then eat at a deficit and sit on your butt all day (or do any exercise you want).0 -
If you want my 2 cents, i think the following....
Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
In my own training these things were important from the get go and i've worked in a progressive manner over time to ensure not only lack of injury but also that i've mastered certain skills before moving on.
So often, especially on MFP I see people blankly recommend heavy lifting to people. Sometimes you aren't ready to begin heavy lifting yet. And that's totally okay. It's much better to build up a base and move on progressively than to try and workout in a style that doesn't fit your current needs and make crappy progress over time. Additionally, since you've had previous injuries you are at more risk to injure yourself again.
With your knee injury you are more at risk of re-injurying the knee, causing injury to the ankle, foot, and lower body. You also likely have postural problems as a result of this knee injury which cause cause it's own slew of injuries. With the shoulder injury it's very likely that you are at risk of further tears, bursistis, shoulder impengement, and instability of the shoulder joint. These are really things you need to consider before you start going in and throwing around weights.
In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights. Because i'm a trainer whose been trained to ensure clients workout in the following manner this would be my plan if you were training with me at the gym-
Warm Up
Myofascial Release: with your injuries, I would do the calves, TFL/IT Band, adductors, piriformis, and latissimus dorsi. Some tennis ball or lacrosse balls on the upper back and pecs would probably feel great since you probably have shoulders rounding forward.
Static Stretching: with your injuries I would avoid certain movements like hurdlers and anything that applies lateral torque on the knee. Some really beneficial stretches for the shoulder like pectoral stretch on wall, lat stretch on a ball/bench.
Working on increasing strength through body weight exercises and increasing stabilization. Over time after ensuring you have increased strength in the areas you have muscle imbalances (if any from the injuries you had previously), and then slowly working your way up with weights/bands/cables/etc.
It would also be important to me to work on the cardio aspect with some form of HIIT/steady state cardio throughout the week.
In other words, i don't think one style or method of training is absolutely best for everyone but that the training approach should be tailored to the individual. ESPECIALLY since you have had previous injuries. I don't like the perpetuated nonsense that unless you are just going balls to the wall crazy with the heavy weights that you are somehow "uncool". And the people who complain about trainers having women "lift pink barbie weights for 25 reps", etc. In my opinion, everyone starts somewhere and that's just sometimes the current level of the client. Better to go low, slow, and work up progressively.
P.S. This is just a random person's advice on the internet and should not be taken as 100% fact, so if you injure yourself or ruin your life or start gambling, it's not on me.
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1. You didn't do poorly simply because it was hard, you did poorly because you weren't conditioned for challenging cardio. If you do it more often you'll adapt.
2. Unless you saw before pics and all the women in the class lost 100 pounds doing bodypump, the more likely scenario is that the people that choose to do a high energy, challenging cardio class were relatively thin and relatively in shape. I mean, if you went to a slam dunk competition you wouldn't come to the conclusion that playing basketball makes people grow taller.
3. If you enjoy it, do it. I wouldn't cycling in and out of lifting **because bodypump aint lifting** but if you're trying to cut or wish to improve your cardiovascular endurance, adding cardio is a real thing. I HAAAAATE cardio but I do cardio on the regular when it's cutting time or when I'm trying to improve my sports performance.
4. If you have injuries, jumping around in a fast moving class without direct supervision and doing 30 reps of everything may not be the most awesome thing in the world.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights.
so, if I can't do a pull up I shouldn't do a row? If I can't do a push up I shouldn't bench? That doesn't make much sense to me. Since lifting heavy is relative, it makes more sense to bench 45lb than to force yourself to try and do push ups. It is easier to increment the weight by 2.5lb-5lb then it is to move from knees to toes.
Bodyweight exercises are greatly influenced by how overweight you are, benching 45lb is benching 45lb. Both are great, neither is required first.0 -
nordlead2005 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights.
so, if I can't do a pull up I shouldn't do a row? If I can't do a push up I shouldn't bench? That doesn't make much sense to me. Since lifting heavy is relative, it makes more sense to bench 45lb than to force yourself to try and do push ups. It is easier to increment the weight by 2.5lb-5lb then it is to move from knees to toes.
Bodyweight exercises are greatly influenced by how overweight you are, benching 45lb is benching 45lb. Both are great, neither is required first.
I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.0 -
nordlead2005 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights.
so, if I can't do a pull up I shouldn't do a row? If I can't do a push up I shouldn't bench? That doesn't make much sense to me. Since lifting heavy is relative, it makes more sense to bench 45lb than to force yourself to try and do push ups. It is easier to increment the weight by 2.5lb-5lb then it is to move from knees to toes.
Bodyweight exercises are greatly influenced by how overweight you are, benching 45lb is benching 45lb. Both are great, neither is required first.
I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.
well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb. But, there is no need to do sets of 100 body weight squats before lifting heavy. If you can do a set of 5 at 0lb, you can progress to a set of 5 at 5lb.
I'm just confused why someone would claim you have to be able to do body weight exercises before lifting "heavy" weights. The OP couldn't do push ups, big deal, I could only do a few and didn't even bother with the variations when I started lifting weights and just the other day I did ~80 in my workout over 5 sets. Personally, I don't care which method someone chooses to use, as there are advantages to each.0 -
I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb. But, there is no need to do sets of 100 body weight squats before lifting heavy. If you can do a set of 5 at 0lb, you can progress to a set of 5 at 5lb.
I'm just confused why someone would claim you have to be able to do body weight exercises before lifting "heavy" weights. The OP couldn't do push ups, big deal, I could only do a few and didn't even bother with the variations when I started lifting weights and just the other day I did ~80 in my workout over 5 sets. Personally, I don't care which method someone chooses to use, as there are advantages to each.
Hence why i said CERTAIN exercises... But cool to totally ignore the other points in my post entirely.
edit: ^ More specifically that you missed my point entirely that certain movements can be dangerous especially if you have had certain injuries and fixing muscular imbalances, increasing stabilizers, and ensuring you can perform these movements safely before just going in the gym and throwing around your max for 5 reps.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »If you want my 2 cents, i think the following....
Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
In my own training these things were important from the get go and i've worked in a progressive manner over time to ensure not only lack of injury but also that i've mastered certain skills before moving on.
So often, especially on MFP I see people blankly recommend heavy lifting to people. Sometimes you aren't ready to begin heavy lifting yet. And that's totally okay. It's much better to build up a base and move on progressively than to try and workout in a style that doesn't fit your current needs and make crappy progress over time. Additionally, since you've had previous injuries you are at more risk to injure yourself again.
With your knee injury you are more at risk of re-injurying the knee, causing injury to the ankle, foot, and lower body. You also likely have postural problems as a result of this knee injury which cause cause it's own slew of injuries. With the shoulder injury it's very likely that you are at risk of further tears, bursistis, shoulder impengement, and instability of the shoulder joint. These are really things you need to consider before you start going in and throwing around weights.
In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights. Because i'm a trainer whose been trained to ensure clients workout in the following manner this would be my plan if you were training with me at the gym-
Warm Up
Myofascial Release: with your injuries, I would do the calves, TFL/IT Band, adductors, piriformis, and latissimus dorsi. Some tennis ball or lacrosse balls on the upper back and pecs would probably feel great since you probably have shoulders rounding forward.
Static Stretching: with your injuries I would avoid certain movements like hurdlers and anything that applies lateral torque on the knee. Some really beneficial stretches for the shoulder like pectoral stretch on wall, lat stretch on a ball/bench.
Working on increasing strength through body weight exercises and increasing stabilization. Over time after ensuring you have increased strength in the areas you have muscle imbalances (if any from the injuries you had previously), and then slowly working your way up with weights/bands/cables/etc.
It would also be important to me to work on the cardio aspect with some form of HIIT/steady state cardio throughout the week.
In other words, i don't think one style or method of training is absolutely best for everyone but that the training approach should be tailored to the individual. ESPECIALLY since you have had previous injuries. I don't like the perpetuated nonsense that unless you are just going balls to the wall crazy with the heavy weights that you are somehow "uncool". And the people who complain about trainers having women "lift pink barbie weights for 25 reps", etc. In my opinion, everyone starts somewhere and that's just sometimes the current level of the client. Better to go low, slow, and work up progressively.
P.S. This is just a random person's advice on the internet and should not be taken as 100% fact, so if you injure yourself or ruin your life or start gambling, it's not on me.
This post made me start gambling. Where can I send my lawsuit?0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »If you want my 2 cents, i think the following....
Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
In my own training these things were important from the get go and i've worked in a progressive manner over time to ensure not only lack of injury but also that i've mastered certain skills before moving on.
So often, especially on MFP I see people blankly recommend heavy lifting to people. Sometimes you aren't ready to begin heavy lifting yet. And that's totally okay. It's much better to build up a base and move on progressively than to try and workout in a style that doesn't fit your current needs and make crappy progress over time. Additionally, since you've had previous injuries you are at more risk to injure yourself again.
With your knee injury you are more at risk of re-injurying the knee, causing injury to the ankle, foot, and lower body. You also likely have postural problems as a result of this knee injury which cause cause it's own slew of injuries. With the shoulder injury it's very likely that you are at risk of further tears, bursistis, shoulder impengement, and instability of the shoulder joint. These are really things you need to consider before you start going in and throwing around weights.
In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights. Because i'm a trainer whose been trained to ensure clients workout in the following manner this would be my plan if you were training with me at the gym-
Warm Up
Myofascial Release: with your injuries, I would do the calves, TFL/IT Band, adductors, piriformis, and latissimus dorsi. Some tennis ball or lacrosse balls on the upper back and pecs would probably feel great since you probably have shoulders rounding forward.
Static Stretching: with your injuries I would avoid certain movements like hurdlers and anything that applies lateral torque on the knee. Some really beneficial stretches for the shoulder like pectoral stretch on wall, lat stretch on a ball/bench.
Working on increasing strength through body weight exercises and increasing stabilization. Over time after ensuring you have increased strength in the areas you have muscle imbalances (if any from the injuries you had previously), and then slowly working your way up with weights/bands/cables/etc.
It would also be important to me to work on the cardio aspect with some form of HIIT/steady state cardio throughout the week.
In other words, i don't think one style or method of training is absolutely best for everyone but that the training approach should be tailored to the individual. ESPECIALLY since you have had previous injuries. I don't like the perpetuated nonsense that unless you are just going balls to the wall crazy with the heavy weights that you are somehow "uncool". And the people who complain about trainers having women "lift pink barbie weights for 25 reps", etc. In my opinion, everyone starts somewhere and that's just sometimes the current level of the client. Better to go low, slow, and work up progressively.
P.S. This is just a random person's advice on the internet and should not be taken as 100% fact, so if you injure yourself or ruin your life or start gambling, it's not on me.
This post made me start gambling. Where can I send my lawsuit?
You can send it directly to myfitnesspal.com/rainbowbowz/recyclebin.html
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rainbowbow wrote: »I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb. But, there is no need to do sets of 100 body weight squats before lifting heavy. If you can do a set of 5 at 0lb, you can progress to a set of 5 at 5lb.
I'm just confused why someone would claim you have to be able to do body weight exercises before lifting "heavy" weights. The OP couldn't do push ups, big deal, I could only do a few and didn't even bother with the variations when I started lifting weights and just the other day I did ~80 in my workout over 5 sets. Personally, I don't care which method someone chooses to use, as there are advantages to each.
Hence why i said CERTAIN exercises... But cool to totally ignore the other points in my post entirely.
edit: ^ More specifically that you missed my point entirely that certain movements can be dangerous especially if you have had certain injuries and fixing muscular imbalances, increasing stabilizers, and ensuring you can perform these movements safely before just going in the gym and throwing around your max for 5 reps.
She may have ignored other parts of your post because no one has time to go point by point on 2000 words.
To address the fiction in this particular post, No one here that's recommending heavy lifting is advocating that some untrained noob walk into the gym and start throwing around the 2x bodyweight squats or OHP 3/5 BW or bench BW. No one is saying to ignore form and start lifting your max on day one. No One.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb. But, there is no need to do sets of 100 body weight squats before lifting heavy. If you can do a set of 5 at 0lb, you can progress to a set of 5 at 5lb.
I'm just confused why someone would claim you have to be able to do body weight exercises before lifting "heavy" weights. The OP couldn't do push ups, big deal, I could only do a few and didn't even bother with the variations when I started lifting weights and just the other day I did ~80 in my workout over 5 sets. Personally, I don't care which method someone chooses to use, as there are advantages to each.
Hence why i said CERTAIN exercises... But cool to totally ignore the other points in my post entirely.
edit: ^ More specifically that you missed my point entirely that certain movements can be dangerous especially if you have had certain injuries and fixing muscular imbalances, increasing stabilizers, and ensuring you can perform these movements safely before just going in the gym and throwing around your max for 5 reps.
I didn't ignore any of your post, I asked a question why you thought body weight exercises were required first. You haven't even explained which CERTAIN exercises those are. Maybe if I knew which I might agree, but right now I'm guessing.
No where did I suggest anyone go to the gym and throw around their max for 5 reps, and I don't know any people on this website who think that is what it means to lift heavy when they suggest lifting. Most recommend starting with the minimum weight possible and even going the extra distance to getting lighter weights if an empty bar is too heavy, which is typically lower than most would start with body weight exercises.
Also, I don't believe that body weight exercises are guaranteed to be safer for previous injuries or for fixing muscle imbalances. If a weight lifting move is dangerous due to a previous injury, then wouldn't the corresponding body weight exercise also be dangerous?0 -
This post was so me! I did a body pump class 2 years ago and couldn't finish it. Fifty pounds lighter and 2 years worth of heavy lifting later, it still kicked my @$$ when I tried it again a couple months ago, however, this time I stuck with it. I can't do nearly as many lunges as the other people in class and I can't, for the life of me, figure out how the trainers do it every day. I lift heavy 3 days a week and do bodypump two days a week. Being able to up the weight ever so slightly each month with the bodypump has really helped in my heavy lifting. For example, before bodypump I would always do lower back squats. I maxed out on those to the point I was about to give up but then I lowered the weight and switched to higher back squats (figured a change might help). Because of the bodypump and the higher reps (especially back and shoulder moves), I am able to progress with the higher back squats and not kill my shoulders with the bar. My deads have gotten better and my form has also improved drastically. Keep with it and it will get better. I've been back at it twice a week for 3 months now and I still can't keep up with the rest of them. I also use more weight than the rest of them. I don't think they challenge themselves much.
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1. You didn't do poorly simply because it was hard, you did poorly because you weren't conditioned for challenging cardio. If you do it more often you'll adapt.
2. Unless you saw before pics and all the women in the class lost 100 pounds doing bodypump, the more likely scenario is that the people that choose to do a high energy, challenging cardio class were relatively thin and relatively in shape. I mean, if you went to a slam dunk competition you wouldn't come to the conclusion that playing basketball makes people grow taller.
3. If you enjoy it, do it. I wouldn't cycling in and out of lifting **because bodypump aint lifting** but if you're trying to cut or wish to improve your cardiovascular endurance, adding cardio is a real thing. I HAAAAATE cardio but I do cardio on the regular when it's cutting time or when I'm trying to improve my sports performance.
4. If you have injuries, jumping around in a fast moving class without direct supervision and doing 30 reps of everything may not be the most awesome thing in the world.
this.Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
omfg- stop it.
Your personal goals are your personal goals. who cares if you can touch your toes? I want to be able to squat 300 pounds- if that means I have to give up my ability to touch my toes- FINE. My goal IS to be able to lift things- I don't run- I don't care about running (that's kind of a lie- but it's the truth- I run for training when i need to and I'm surprisingly good at it) but I seriously don't care about it. I like it- but my main goals are lifting.
You do not need to be functional across the board. If that's what kind of life you want- fine- go for it- but it's not every ones' personal goal.
There are people who train to do ultra long distance running- being super strong and squatting 300 pounds won't help them. Cross training is useful for BOTH sides- but the more focused your personal goals are the more likely you will swing away from the other side of cross training.
So STHAP IT WITH THE FUNCTIONAL TRAINING BS.
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You mean body weight +45lbsnordlead2005 wrote: »nordlead2005 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights.
so, if I can't do a pull up I shouldn't do a row? If I can't do a push up I shouldn't bench? That doesn't make much sense to me. Since lifting heavy is relative, it makes more sense to bench 45lb than to force yourself to try and do push ups. It is easier to increment the weight by 2.5lb-5lb then it is to move from knees to toes.
Bodyweight exercises are greatly influenced by how overweight you are, benching 45lb is benching 45lb. Both are great, neither is required first.
I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.
well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb.
An empty barbell weighs 45 pounds.0 -
You mean body weight +45lbsnordlead2005 wrote: »nordlead2005 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights.
so, if I can't do a pull up I shouldn't do a row? If I can't do a push up I shouldn't bench? That doesn't make much sense to me. Since lifting heavy is relative, it makes more sense to bench 45lb than to force yourself to try and do push ups. It is easier to increment the weight by 2.5lb-5lb then it is to move from knees to toes.
Bodyweight exercises are greatly influenced by how overweight you are, benching 45lb is benching 45lb. Both are great, neither is required first.
I don't think she said anything about pullups or pushups. Your reasoning on those makes sense. On the flip side, I'd say that a person should be able to do a bodyweight squat before barbell squatting.
well that one is obvious, as you have to do be able to do body weight squat before you can do body weight + 5lb.
An empty barbell weighs 45 pounds.
^ this... or even a broom stick.
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Your training, if it has a goal, it conditions you towards that goal.
Build yourself up to do a bunch of high rep stuff, OP and you'll handle bodypump just fine.
I've been in fair decent aerobic shape and found myself half-killed by one of my missus's workout DVDs. It's horses for courses.
Also, lifting a 5x5 programme is totally different from doing a 20-rep squat program which is totally different from doing a daily max program. There's a bunch of ways to do resistance training with a barbell alone and that doesn't even factor in other tools/bodyweight or even stuff like isometrics...0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Body Pump is more about endurance training. There's nothing wrong with it. It's a quicker way of achieving the look you want but, like any cardio activity when you have a desire to look a certain way, you will forever be chasing that look having to burn calories to avoid eating to excess. Basically, exercising to burn calories.
I think it's a far healthier mental approach to eat to fuel exercise which is more likely to occur from strength training.
I used to take the first approach but nowadays (well, for the last two years), I've taken the approach of eating to fuel my training. I'm full of energy, look great and perform well. Plus I can still eat fun food. And curiously, I don't think I've put on any weight over the Christmas period. Obviously, I wasn't trying hard enough. 0 -
It's a different kind of training. I lift heavy but I would probably struggle there....I mean, I consider light weight front squats cardio. I get out of breath and want to curse at people. Back squatting 90% of my max? Totally fine.
As someone else mentioned, you have to choose your goals and eat and train to achieve that. You can get a slim, defined physique from heavy lifting. No matter what, if you have fat to lose you have to lose the fat.0 -
I have less knowledge than anyone on this topic, but I run, lift heavy, and do body pump classes. I run because I love it and do the others because I should. I am at my lowest weight and BFP in my adult life and I still need to lose about 20 lbs (IMO).
That being said... Did you like the class? Do what works for you. We all know that we need to do resistance training because its very good for us. Cardio is also very good for us and really helps burn some calories. So... I say pick the cardio and the resistance that work best for you and make it work. And FWIW, there are a lot of overweight women and a lot of "skinny fat" women in my bodypump class - and they're all working hard and doing great!0 -
Think of it this way: take a 100-200 sprinter (heavy weight lifter) and have them run a marathon (light weights lots of reps). Result would more than likely be that the sprinter couldn't finish it and would feel it the next 3 days.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
I hear you! I took a Body Pump class once and I pretty much watched the second half of it! I wasn't thrilled with the instructor so I ended up not sticking with it.
As everyone else has pretty much said, different types of exercise have different benefits. Your goals should lead you to the types of exercise you focus on. If you only do one type of exercise, you may end up lacking in other areas of fitness. There is strength training, cardio, endurance, flexibility, and probably something else I'm forgetting.
Ultimately, if you are overweight, the key is going to be eating at a deficit to lose the fat, no matter what exercise you are doing. Maybe adding in a couple of cardio or endurance type workouts a week will help you burn a few more calories and speed up your loss.0 -
Holy smokes! Tons of replies I think I just wanted reassurances that lifting heavy would eventually get me some kind of results...and that the rep difference was the issue versus my doing something wrong.
To clarify a few things...I like free weights and machines because I can keep a certain range of motion to avoid exacerbating old injuries. Whereas in an aerobic setting there seems to be more drastic directional changes. Probably why my knee got insanely swollen after Zumba but I have no problem doing leg presses at 350 lbs, for example.
I can't bench my BW yet. I just went up to 80 lbs. I started with just the bar, so this is big for me. As for aerobics, I just do elliptical machines at intervals getting my heart rate up. Interestingly that wasn't the portion that kicked my derriere, but the actual lifting.
I do have plenty of fat to lose. And I've enjoyed going with the lifting versus the cardio only route I tried last time. I got injured more, I wasn't seeing the size difference, etc. I just felt like I should've been so much stronger, and seeing all those women there just made me (a) self conscious (which is a me thing only) and (b) question the course I was taking.
I noticed someone mentioning they did both...maybe this is something I should do to "shake things up" on an off day or something.
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chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Traditional "heavy" strength programs are designed to build maximal strength on a low number of reps (think power lifters)...it doesn't do much for muscular endurance and stamina though, which is what higher rep, lower weight work does. A body pump class is also going to be a lot of cardiovascular work as well, so if your cardiovascular fitness isn't up to par it would not be unusual to struggle.
There is no right or wrong...how you choose to lift should be based on your particular goals. I work with a trainer and he cycles me through various rep ranges throughout the year (i.e. I'll do cycles of "heavy", cycles of moderate weight/medium reps, and cycles of boot campish type of work with higher reps and lower weight)0 -
As a Bodypump instructor, my comment would be that you are comparing apples and oranges. Heavy lifting and bodypump (enduranced based cardio) are two COMPLETELY different styles of workout, which work for different types of people. When I did my "audition" tape to become an instructor I had a few people from the gym in there with me who are the heavy lifting crowd and they said it was difficult for them. It's just not what they(or you) are used to. I would recommend that you focus on what works for you, and as others have said, maybe try mixing it up. You could add pump into your weekly routine once or twice. I do it about 3x/week, along with HIIT training, walking, stair stepper, spin, etc on different days.
With all that being said, I would add that proper nutrition will ultimately be the game changer if you want to lose weight.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »If you want my 2 cents, i think the following....
Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
In my own training these things were important from the get go and i've worked in a progressive manner over time to ensure not only lack of injury but also that i've mastered certain skills before moving on.
So often, especially on MFP I see people blankly recommend heavy lifting to people. Sometimes you aren't ready to begin heavy lifting yet. And that's totally okay. It's much better to build up a base and move on progressively than to try and workout in a style that doesn't fit your current needs and make crappy progress over time. Additionally, since you've had previous injuries you are at more risk to injure yourself again.
With your knee injury you are more at risk of re-injurying the knee, causing injury to the ankle, foot, and lower body. You also likely have postural problems as a result of this knee injury which cause cause it's own slew of injuries. With the shoulder injury it's very likely that you are at risk of further tears, bursistis, shoulder impengement, and instability of the shoulder joint. These are really things you need to consider before you start going in and throwing around weights.
In my opinion if you cannot perform certain body weight movements you aren't ready to be lifting heavy weights. Because i'm a trainer whose been trained to ensure clients workout in the following manner this would be my plan if you were training with me at the gym-
Warm Up
Myofascial Release: with your injuries, I would do the calves, TFL/IT Band, adductors, piriformis, and latissimus dorsi. Some tennis ball or lacrosse balls on the upper back and pecs would probably feel great since you probably have shoulders rounding forward.
Static Stretching: with your injuries I would avoid certain movements like hurdlers and anything that applies lateral torque on the knee. Some really beneficial stretches for the shoulder like pectoral stretch on wall, lat stretch on a ball/bench.
Working on increasing strength through body weight exercises and increasing stabilization. Over time after ensuring you have increased strength in the areas you have muscle imbalances (if any from the injuries you had previously), and then slowly working your way up with weights/bands/cables/etc.
It would also be important to me to work on the cardio aspect with some form of HIIT/steady state cardio throughout the week.
In other words, i don't think one style or method of training is absolutely best for everyone but that the training approach should be tailored to the individual. ESPECIALLY since you have had previous injuries. I don't like the perpetuated nonsense that unless you are just going balls to the wall crazy with the heavy weights that you are somehow "uncool". And the people who complain about trainers having women "lift pink barbie weights for 25 reps", etc. In my opinion, everyone starts somewhere and that's just sometimes the current level of the client. Better to go low, slow, and work up progressively.
P.S. This is just a random person's advice on the internet and should not be taken as 100% fact, so if you injure yourself or ruin your life or start gambling, it's not on me.
I actually did read this I do stretch plenty. It's one of the few things I kept up with after my dancing days. I stretch all the time just because it feels good and relaxes me. I miss being ultra flexible, but...age LOL
I do some cardio with the elliptical just to get the heart going without killing the joints. When my leg is behaving I also still do some ballet/hip hop at home. Like I said above, the actual "cardio" didn't kill me it was the actual reps.
I started out low...lifting "heavy" was defined on a different thread as just lifting a high amount of weight for you. Each person has a different "heavy". So on a few things I am fairly "balls to the wall", but others like OHP I'm only using 15 lb dumbbells for because of a left shoulder that's had 3 partial tears.
Maybe it's the "catering" of my routine to avoid injuries that's gotten me out of balance with some of the things we did in class.0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »I do have plenty of fat to lose. And I've enjoyed going with the lifting versus the cardio only route I tried last time. I got injured more, I wasn't seeing the size difference, etc. I just felt like I should've been so much stronger, and seeing all those women there just made me (a) self conscious (which is a me thing only) and (b) question the course I was taking.
I noticed someone mentioning they did both...maybe this is something I should do to "shake things up" on an off day or something.
Fat loss will come down to dietary adherence.
Training is a matter of preference and goals.
If your goal is to build strength-endurance, then higher rep work will be the way to go.
If your goal is to build strength, then lower rep work will be the way to go.
All else being equal, if you nail the diet, you'll lose fat either way.
Just randomly mixing stuff in will probably lead to you under recovering and performing mediocrely in both pursuits. In the case that you want to build both qualities, then you'd be better doing a well designed routine that incorporates elements of both and gives you adequate recovery.
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1. You didn't do poorly simply because it was hard, you did poorly because you weren't conditioned for challenging cardio. If you do it more often you'll adapt.
2. Unless you saw before pics and all the women in the class lost 100 pounds doing bodypump, the more likely scenario is that the people that choose to do a high energy, challenging cardio class were relatively thin and relatively in shape. I mean, if you went to a slam dunk competition you wouldn't come to the conclusion that playing basketball makes people grow taller.
3. If you enjoy it, do it. I wouldn't cycling in and out of lifting **because bodypump aint lifting** but if you're trying to cut or wish to improve your cardiovascular endurance, adding cardio is a real thing. I HAAAAATE cardio but I do cardio on the regular when it's cutting time or when I'm trying to improve my sports performance.
4. If you have injuries, jumping around in a fast moving class without direct supervision and doing 30 reps of everything may not be the most awesome thing in the world.
this.Whats the dang point in working out if you don't have functional strength, agility, power, endurance, and flexibility? I don't want to be someone who can run 50 miles on a treadmill but can't lift groceries. And vice versa, I don't want to be super strong but can't run to save my life. Even worse I don't want to be either of those things without the ability to even touch my toes.
omfg- stop it.
Your personal goals are your personal goals. who cares if you can touch your toes? I want to be able to squat 300 pounds- if that means I have to give up my ability to touch my toes- FINE. My goal IS to be able to lift things- I don't run- I don't care about running (that's kind of a lie- but it's the truth- I run for training when i need to and I'm surprisingly good at it) but I seriously don't care about it. I like it- but my main goals are lifting.
You do not need to be functional across the board. If that's what kind of life you want- fine- go for it- but it's not every ones' personal goal.
There are people who train to do ultra long distance running- being super strong and squatting 300 pounds won't help them. Cross training is useful for BOTH sides- but the more focused your personal goals are the more likely you will swing away from the other side of cross training.
So STHAP IT WITH THE FUNCTIONAL TRAINING BS.
IT IS NOT BS!!!! When you reach certain age (aka old) function, flexibility and balance will be more important than squatting 300 lbs. Don't worry you get there some day.0
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