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Food Addiction - A Different Perspective
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All, keep on topic of addiction. We don't need the comments about potential shut downs and thread cleaning as its just going to cause drama. If there are issues report and thr mods will evaluate.
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I must have missed this the first time around, so I'm glad it got bumped.
Overall a great thread with the cleaned up stuff gone, so great job on the overall content of discussion and for starting the thread @PeachyCarol There should be more threads like this were people can at least for the most part remain civil and discuss issues and how they related to them without all the absolutes involved.
And on that note, though there were a number of posts and posters that made great points, the below stuck out to me above all others.
@Caitwn - just tagging it since it's your postI was going to post this separately, but maybe it belongs here. It probably won't interest anyone but me, but I needed to collect my thoughts after reading the research cited below and thought I might as well post it.
So this food addiction debate is something I struggle with. One reason is that I'm 30 years clean from a drug addiction, and while being a former addict isn't central to my identity, it informs my reaction to people claiming to be addicted to food (I am not talking here about people with diagnosed eating disorders). In a purely emotional way, it bothers me that someone would try to say that their food 'addiction' represents the same sort of hell myself and others went through. I know that's irrational on my part, and it's something I have to be careful about when listening to others' experiences.
As a mental health professional and researcher in health-related behavior change, it's clear to me that definitive evidence for addiction to foods simply doesn't exist. And the web of behaviors and thoughts that my clients with eating disorders struggle with is far more complex than "omg I'm addicted to sugar".
BUT...and here's the place where I've struggled...in a small subset of friends and clients, not all of whom are obese/overweight, and none of whom have eating disorders, there is no question that there are what I'd consider to be "markers" of addiction in their food-related behaviors and thought patterns. So I've followed the research, trying to find a way to categorize what I've observed in a way that makes sense, is respectful of their experiences, and allows me to offer meaningful help.
It seemed to me that food "addiction" was more about the compulsive aspect of eating than about specific foods, but the overlap with Binge Eating Disorder made this murky territory. The research on cyclic restriction/binge patterns that Carol references above came closer to describing what food addiction may be, but for me it misses the larger picture (and frankly, a lot of the rodent-based studies haven't translated well to human modeling in this particular area of research).
I may have found a concept that works, though - at least for me. It's summarized in this 2014 research review by scientists in the Integrated Neurobiology of Food Intake, Addiction, and Stress consortium and published in the November 2014 edition of Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews: “Eating addiction", rather than “food addiction”, better captures addictive-like eating behavior.
Link here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140
Personally and professionally, I can accept the label of "eating addiction" rather than "food addiction". I still believe far too many people (frankly, the majority of those claiming to be food "addicts") apply the "addiction" label to themselves when they're really just talking about the fact that they eat too much and need to stop it. But within that larger group is the much smaller subset of folks who have always left me feeling concerned, because when they are able to articulate their experiences, it sure as hell sounds like addiction to me.
Highlights from the article:
• Evidence for addiction to specific macronutrients is lacking in humans.
• “Eating addiction” describes a behavioral addiction.
• An “eating addiction” is not necessarily associated with obesity.
• Obesity prevention strategies should focus on “eating addiction”.
• Consider “eating addiction” as a disorder in DSM-5 “Non-Substance-Related Disorders”.
First, I thought this was a great post and insight, and as such would gladly invalidate your feelings on the entire first paragraph. I hope you don't find any offense in that.
Based on the above I'd venture to say that quite a few people here on the forums may have been diagnosed with various eating disorders if they hadn't tackled the issues themselves and instead gone to seek professional help. Maybe they were never diagnosed, but got help with ending the behaviors that were unhealthy in regards to eating, maybe they struggle to maintain but found a way to at least cope or control their behaviors and/or disordered relationships with food if such a thing existed. Maybe they continue to just fool themselves and should seek professional help.
But at the end of the day, for the people that are affected, what difference does a dictionary definition, a clinical diagnosis, or just a personal wake up make regarding the changes that a person needs to make? Especially when the person making changes has a whole host of options and/or assistance levels in making that change? The world certainly wouldn't become devoid of issues if nobody was around to diagnose them, and as we know in many areas of medical sciences the diagnosis and suggested treatments may vary even within a group of trained professionals.
I'm all for the truth when it comes to helping people, and if or when in a situation where I know someone well enough that I can get through to them I have no problem giving them the "tough love" truth approach. But only within my knowledge base and understanding, not beyond. And to be honest, I see a lot of people on these forums that are overstepping bounds of that, often suggesting things that even a well trained professional would not diagnose without a much better and more in depth interview of a person first. To suggest things such as eating disorders, behavioral issues involving denial, lack of willpower, lack of self love, etc.... I think that is much better left to the professionals to hash out. And it's tricky for a lot of them too.
I've been through enough of my own crap that if I feel a person really needs professional help, I'm going to gently suggest it as an option, and I'm certainly not going to try to shove a non professional online diagnosis down their throat, especially if it attaches a stigma of mental health related disorder. And even though most posts here regarding say sugar probably fall within lesser diagnosis, we would have no idea who just has a minor issue they can resolve themselves, and who might fall into the category Caitwn describes above and have much more serious issues.
I think it's great that so many people could express their personal struggles with food or other behavioral and addiction issues here. It's great cleansing for the person and helps others overcome the stigma often attached to some of those things. During my time accepting and dealing with my PTSD, I've spent a decent bit of time in groups that include a lot of addicts and people dealing with various disorders. And one important lesson that I've learned is that I can only look in my own mirror and pass judgement. I can't look in the mirror of another and understand their struggles. I must accept that they are different than my own, and let those people make their own decisions on how to deal with them.0 -
I just had this discussion with my sister about my nephew over the Christmas holiday, whom she feels has an internet addiction. Like food addiction, it is not a clinically diagnosable disorder. It is not in the DSM V. The APA has recommended further research on internet addiction to see if it needs to be added in a future edition of the DSM. Though adding to the "Non-Substance Related Disorders list will be a bit more difficult now, I think, as the criteria for diagnosis is now a combined list for abuse and dependency--they were previously two separate lists.
- In all honesty, I think part of her perception is due to comparisons to how she was as a child (we didn't hole up in our rooms--there was no internet, and no cable when she was a kid) as well as how she is now. She is a huge extrovert and loves being around people all the time and has a hard time understanding why everyone's not like her. My nephew has a lovely gaming system and friends all over the world, his own TV and a mini-fridge in his room. He doesn't need to leave.
We can get caught up how we think things should be because of our own frame of reference for who we are or who we want to be. Or what we want for other people.
That doesn't mean there aren't some unhealthy habits around my nephew's internet use. Just like there are some problematic ways people use food. There are scales developed to assess the behaviors around both of those things.
Working with people who have been or are suffering from clinical substance abuse/dependency, I do get concerned with the casual way we toss around the word "addicted." It changes the way we societally perceive those conditions and I think referring to cupcakes, Doritos Swedish Fish and other foods as an addiction minimizes the seriousness and tenacity of the substances that are clinical addictions including BED (please note, gambling has been added to the DSM V). But it doesn't appear as though people are talking about addiction through the lens of BED.
Someone earlier in the thread asked (I think--it was quite a few pages back and i was reading this thread when it began and when it was resurrected.
) what the difference is between something like alcohol dependency and food addiction. One of the things making the addictions, well, addictions, is the lengths people go to fulfill/maintain them. Someone may eat a lot of Junior Mints. But are they not paying rent so they can buy their Junior Mints? Are they going into debt to buy Junior Mints? Are they stealing to buy Junior Mints? Or stealing Junior Mints? Are they not seeing friends and family so they don't have to risk people asking them why they're always eating Junior Mints? Are they in danger of losing their job because they spend their time at work eating Junior Mints? Probably not. (And please note I'm leaving out the entire chemical dependency issue--just focusing on behaviors.) That doesn't mean they shouldn't cut down on their Junior Mint eating. Eating a lot of Junior Mints may be happening because of one or more other problems.
People in this thread have already said it, there are reasons we have unhealthy behaviors, especially around food. Learning why we are acting the way we are and changing those patterns only happens when we're ready and willing. Some people need help changing their behavior. Some don't. One method's not better than the other--it's the destination, not the journey that matters.
Edited to fix typos.
0 - In all honesty, I think part of her perception is due to comparisons to how she was as a child (we didn't hole up in our rooms--there was no internet, and no cable when she was a kid) as well as how she is now. She is a huge extrovert and loves being around people all the time and has a hard time understanding why everyone's not like her. My nephew has a lovely gaming system and friends all over the world, his own TV and a mini-fridge in his room. He doesn't need to leave.
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Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »I'd like to reiterate a point I made in the first post regarding restriction.
We're coming up on the New Year. A lot of people are going to want to resolve to give up sugar.
The symposium on food addiction and the research on eating addiction point to the underpinnings of behavioral addiction in the subset of people who have true addiction being based in binge/restrict cycles.
If someone is resolving to give up sugar or carbs or pizza or whatever because they think they're addicted, it might not be the best approach since it could be feeding the whole cycle it seeks to eliminate.
The underlying cause of the behavior will still be there. It was for me. In my earlier post, I told how I started overeating different foods when I restricted one group of foods.
There were also times in my past where I resolved to never eat brownies, chips, cookies... again. They all led to eating pans of brownies, bags of chips, boxes of cookies. I am not unfamiliar with binge (colloquial use of the term)/restrict.
It wasn't until getting at using food as a soother, a comforter, a companion, a crutch -- that I was able to deal with it properly.
I am not saying that there are not people out there who don't have very real and serious issues beyond the self-help I experienced. Some people genuinely have eating addiction. They, I believe, are a small subset of all the people who struggle with food, though.
That's not to say that each person's struggle isn't daunting to them. I know how hard it can be. It's taken me 40 years to get this right!
I'm just hoping to provide food for thought to those resolving to "give up xyz" because they're "addicted". Maybe think about digging a little deeper while you're giving up the food. Because it's really not about the food. And restriction could be perpetuating an addiction cycle if you're in that small subset of people with a true eating addiction.
Smart post. I have benefitted from Jan resolutions and challenges, but only because I knew it was a temporary thing and didn't buy into the good/bad dichotomy.0 -
Great article ! I cant say I was addicted to food but I certainly used food / drink to get through difficulties I had in my life; I would just binge eat or drink.
When I started getting healthy, watching my weight, logging food and drink and exercise regularly I felt different.
I started to noticed that when I was down and angry about something that happened, I'd eat or drink. Now I go to the gym and have a really hard work out. I didn't catch on to the change till one time it occurred to me that - jokingly that "I should get upset more, that was a great work out!" After a while I noticed how I'd changed my mind set, I realised what I do different now; if I'm upset I go exercise, before it was 5 - 6 pints and a curry, or mope in front of the TV.
I realised then that I used food and drink as a comfort, and I don't now. So I don't think its the food that addictive but the mind-set plays a part.
Anyway that's just my personal view, based on my experience, so I'm not claiming authority on this but just giving an example of how one can get in a funk and it's hard to get out of it. One on the side effect I have found with a healthy lifestyle is a more positive feeling about myself, and as side effects go that's a pretty good one!0 -
I think this thread can be tremendously useful as a way to think through all of our viewpoints and experiences, whether we ultimately agree or not.
Speaking just for myself, I finally sorted out a way to be comfortable with the "addiction" terminology, as I just didn't want to spend time here in the endless cycle of (a) seeing someone label themselves a food addict, (b) informing them that they aren't addicted to food, (c) dealing with the fact that they understandably get defensive about that, and (d) seeing yet another thread moderated into oblivion along with the distribution of pointless warnings.
I still don't believe food is addictive because to date there is simply no evidence pointing to that fact. BUT - there IS good evidence indicating that people can get trapped in a behavioral addiction to the act of eating itself.
That works for me conceptually, because it removes the need to debate whether any specific food group is the supposed culprit, it acknowledges the fact that people can and do use eating behaviors for some of the very same reasons that addicts use drugs, and it also acknowledges the fact that breaking those patterns of dependence on the behavior is challenging as hell.
So yes, I still twitch when I see someone say they're "addicted" to sugar or carbs or M&Ms or cheddar popcorn or...whatever. But when I keep the "eating addiction" concept in my mind, I can be a lot more gentle when I engage that person in discussion - because the challenges and possible solutions to the issue are all congruent with what we know about addiction. And I can focus on that rather than confronting the person about their choice of words and ending up in a derailed conversation that doesn't end up being helpful.
I think that's a good approach. Hopefully after time the person will realise they weren't addicted to sugar etc
Telling them in a post they are being silly etc isn't useful0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
Yeah, it's a controversial issue and Yale has a scale for food addiction. You cannot just sit there and type to strangers online 'sorry you do not have a food addiction'
http://fastlab.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MeuleGearhardt_FiveYearsoftheYaleFoodAddictionScale-TakingStockMovingForward_2014.pdf0 -
susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
I was floored and disgusted by many of the posts on this thread, what I disliked even more was some posters had this way of talking like all food abusers are morbidly obese lazy slobs..many sufferers wouldn't even qualify as obese..many not even reaching overweight..therefore these ideas keep people hidden in denial or ashamed of themselves...
Some sound like a substance abuser has thrown in their face they have no idea? This upsets me that other addicts in recovery would be so cold to another human being and downplay a habit/addiction they have just all around a very disappointing read
Actually, I'm quite floored and disgusted that you're disgusted by the possibility of people who have eating disorders being described as possibly or probably overweight like that's the worst thing in the world.
Many of the points you missed about addiction is addiction is usually used to describe things that are not just a habit, but also create a physical dependency with painful, sometimes deadly, withdrawal symptoms. Food does not have that, the closest thing you have to food withdrawal is hunger and starvation - symptoms that exist because you are supposed to actually get food in your system to keep yourself alive. You're even inverting the idea of who is downplaying whom.
HA you're funny! Food addiction causes diabetes, slow colons, constipation (to a point of becoming septic), acid reflux, ulcers, dental problems, and a myriad of other life threatening issues.
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Working with people who have been or are suffering from clinical substance abuse/dependency, I do get concerned with the casual way we toss around the word "addicted." It changes the way we societally perceive those conditions and ...
I agree with this. It's very similar to tossing around the word "depression".
For minor problematic food behaviors, I consider it a victory in discussions with my family member who has trouble with M&Ms, to now say, "I choose not to stop eating those when I'm around them." It's just a language switch, but it's helping both of us. (I've got my own trouble foods, hello Aldi chocolate dipped peppermint crème cookies.) We have caught ourselves recently using the word "addicted" and have changed it to taking responsibility and saying, "I won't stop eating them" or "I choose not to stop."
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
Yeah, it's a controversial issue and Yale has a scale for food addiction. You cannot just sit there and type to strangers online 'sorry you do not have a food addiction'
http://fastlab.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MeuleGearhardt_FiveYearsoftheYaleFoodAddictionScale-TakingStockMovingForward_2014.pdf
The authors of the Yale Food Addiction Scale themselves admit that there's no evidence for addiction to food as a substance in humans.
Please re-read the first post. The point here is not to negate your experience or invalidate you. It's obvious that this is an important issue to you, but the distinction being made in this thread is a fine one, and I think you're missing the point.
There's a difference between being addicted to foods as substances and having a behavioral addiction to eating.
There's also a whole spectrum of problematic behavior that falls short of being classified as addiction but is still, well, problematic.
That being said, it doesn't really matter whether you're addicted or not, if you want to consider yourself addicted to food, go ahead. Alright... you're addicted.
What are you going to do about it?
There are many suggestions in this thread, and some revolve around seeking therapy, others mention self-help techniques others employed. All involved behavior modification.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
I agree with there being no food addiction, rather an eating addiction. I'm unsure as to why people need food to physically be addictive, I mean above and beyond the part where we literally need it to live, and cannot accept it as a behavioral addiction. It's consistent with what science has currently demonstrated and, frankly, just makes sense.
Along this note, isn't the most "addicting" food according to that Yale study pizza? I've always found that to be the most interesting, especially due to the fact that most people who claim to be addicted to food claim to be addicted to sugar.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
Yeah, it's a controversial issue and Yale has a scale for food addiction. You cannot just sit there and type to strangers online 'sorry you do not have a food addiction'
http://fastlab.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MeuleGearhardt_FiveYearsoftheYaleFoodAddictionScale-TakingStockMovingForward_2014.pdf
Except those scales and measures all report a mental desire for food, bot addiction as in phyaical dependence.
Look at the foods dubbed most "addictive" and they aren't the raw ingredients, they are foods composed of many complex things. That's not how substances addiction works - you can't be addicted to a mixture, only to a chemical. Yet people who are "addicted" to sugar don't want raw pixie stix, nor do they even gnaw down fruit - they want to eat cakes, ice creams, and chocolates.
That tells us the food itself isn't addictive, it is a behavioral thing, which would make it at best eating addiction, rather than addiction to a substance.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Well I have been addicted to opiates, crack and food. I'm still addicted to food be quite frank with you.
Sorry, no such thing as being addicted to food. What substance do you think you are addicted to?
You may well have an ED, that doesn't require addiction and is a serious problem.
I agree with there being no food addiction, rather an eating addiction. I'm unsure as to why people need food to physically be addictive, I mean above and beyond the part where we literally need it to live, and cannot accept it as a behavioral addiction. It's consistent with what science has currently demonstrated and, frankly, just makes sense.
Along this note, isn't the most "addicting" food according to that Yale study pizza? I've always found that to be the most interesting, especially due to the fact that most people who claim to be addicted to food claim to be addicted to sugar.
Yes, and similarly in the book Sugar, Salt, Fat (I always get the order wrong), they discuss the studies about brain responses to hyperpalatable foods (NOT the same thing as addiction), and fat scores as high as sugar.0 -
"Paul Fletcher, professor of health neuroscience at Cambridge University, is baffled by the "apparently uncritical acceptance of food addiction." In his opinion, it is way too early for it to be taken as a valid or useful concept. While the rat studies are sound, he says, the degree to which they can be extrapolated to humans is limited. And the rest of the research results are inconsistent. He also wonders what, precisely, the addictive substance in food is: sugar, salt, fat or just anything that tastes good?" http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/aug/20/food-addiction-exist-fat-sugar0
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susan100df wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »I believe that some use the " food addict" card as an excuse. Its easier for those people to claim they are addicted to candy then to admit they just aren't ready to change . rather then use food as comfort.
I see many posts like this on MFP regarding addiction to food and/or sugar. It puzzles me because I assume that if someone has bothered to make an account on MFP and post on a forum, they are looking for help to change. I don't think people are looking for "oh poor you, just eat thousands of calories of candy since you can't help it". Maybe some want to be told to have at it but not most. Not if they are on a calorie counting site.
I think they are looking to talk about how others have overcome bad issues around food. Those discussions are difficult to have on this forum. For some their "help me" post might be the very first time they have ever talked about it. To have the thread go crazy is a disservice to all that have issues around food.
I was floored and disgusted by many of the posts on this thread, what I disliked even more was some posters had this way of talking like all food abusers are morbidly obese lazy slobs..many sufferers wouldn't even qualify as obese..many not even reaching overweight..therefore these ideas keep people hidden in denial or ashamed of themselves...
Some sound like a substance abuser has thrown in their face they have no idea? This upsets me that other addicts in recovery would be so cold to another human being and downplay a habit/addiction they have just all around a very disappointing read
Actually, I'm quite floored and disgusted that you're disgusted by the possibility of people who have eating disorders being described as possibly or probably overweight like that's the worst thing in the world.
Many of the points you missed about addiction is addiction is usually used to describe things that are not just a habit, but also create a physical dependency with painful, sometimes deadly, withdrawal symptoms. Food does not have that, the closest thing you have to food withdrawal is hunger and starvation - symptoms that exist because you are supposed to actually get food in your system to keep yourself alive. You're even inverting the idea of who is downplaying whom.
HA you're funny! Food addiction causes diabetes, slow colons, constipation (to a point of becoming septic), acid reflux, ulcers, dental problems, and a myriad of other life threatening issues.
Appealing to consequences doesn't make something have withdrawal.
Anything stressful can cause ulcers and acid reflux. Not brushing leads to dental problems, that doesn't make my child being forgetful comparable to heroin withdrawal. Everything you listed is attributable to the way a person might eat. I could saying gambling addiction can cause flesh eating neceotis infections because people have to touch dirty gambling chips. You can't have withdrawal from food.
And food addiction doesn't cause any of that just like Bigfoot doesn't cause them.0 -
@Therealobi1 - I agree with you, and sadly this is going to result in another long post from me =P
I've been in more discussion about this (on a different board where I have more freedom to discuss the topic). As a result, if I were to participate in future on an "I'm addicted to sugar" (or addicted to whatever) thread on MFP, I'd still point out that in MY OWN life I haven't had experiences or seen enough clear evidence yet to convince me that food per se is addictive. But I wouldn't try to debate what other posters call themselves, even if they insist on calling themselves food/sugar/carb addicts.
I realized this because these MFP debates made me think not only about my own recovery from drug addiction, but also about people I work with as clients. I've worked for years with people who've been doing things like prostituting and stealing to pay for drugs, or using nails to poke holes in the veins on the back of their hands to try and drip the drugs in because they didn't have access to syringes. But they refused to call themselves addicts. And for me, it was perfectly fine if they didn't want to use that label as long as they kept showing up.
I let them know I didn't care about whether they called themselves addicts or not, because the label wasn't as important as the simple fact that they wanted to change. I knew that if the change succeeded, they might or might not come around to acknowledging the label themselves. But if they did come to view themselves as addicts, it had to happen on THEIR timetable. Not mine.
Conversely, on MFP, a person may have to experience for themselves what it's like to be free of their unhealthy eating before they might look back and say to themselves, "OK. I see now the sugar by itself wasn't an addiction. It was just all wrapped up in a lot of eating/thought/behavior patterns, and I had to work on all of that together to get free".
Or they might never let go of the "I'm a sugar addict" label. It doesn't really matter as long as they'll own their part of the responsibility to create change, and keep moving forward. But if they use the addict label as an excuse not to change, that becomes part of the problem - and even then it's not about the addict label itself. It's about the fact that they're claiming to be helpless when that isn't the case.
I view the whole addict label debate as sort of an academic issue. I can insist on doing battle with someone over how they use the term, but that means that the debate over language will become the focus. Or I can let go of the debate, and focus on whether the person is in a place where they're interested in changing, what that might look like, and what they learning from trying. Because doing that, and the courage to talk about what's learned from both success and failure, is what matters.
None of that takes away from the importance of keeping up with the ongoing research about eating patterns, the influence of hyper-palatable foods on eating patterns, and whether and how there's any overlap with addictions. Because that's one hell of an interesting set of topics, at least for a nerd like me. And as information becomes clearer, hopefully we'll have more and better tools and strategies to help ourselves and others. But in the meantime I think the "I'm a sugar addict" "no you're not" "yes I am" dance is pointless, and takes away from what's really important.
*applause*0 -
@Therealobi1 - I agree with you, and sadly this is going to result in another long post from me =P
I've been in more discussion about this (on a different board where I have more freedom to discuss the topic). As a result, if I were to participate in future on an "I'm addicted to sugar" (or addicted to whatever) thread on MFP, I'd still point out that in MY OWN life I haven't had experiences or seen enough clear evidence yet to convince me that food per se is addictive. But I wouldn't try to debate what other posters call themselves, even if they insist on calling themselves food/sugar/carb addicts.
I realized this because these MFP debates made me think not only about my own recovery from drug addiction, but also about people I work with as clients. I've worked for years with people who've been doing things like prostituting and stealing to pay for drugs, or using nails to poke holes in the veins on the back of their hands to try and drip the drugs in because they didn't have access to syringes. But they refused to call themselves addicts. And for me, it was perfectly fine if they didn't want to use that label as long as they kept showing up.
I let them know I didn't care about whether they called themselves addicts or not, because the label wasn't as important as the simple fact that they wanted to change. I knew that if the change succeeded, they might or might not come around to acknowledging the label themselves. But if they did come to view themselves as addicts, it had to happen on THEIR timetable. Not mine.
Conversely, on MFP, a person may have to experience for themselves what it's like to be free of their unhealthy eating before they might look back and say to themselves, "OK. I see now the sugar by itself wasn't an addiction. It was just all wrapped up in a lot of eating/thought/behavior patterns, and I had to work on all of that together to get free".
Or they might never let go of the "I'm a sugar addict" label. It doesn't really matter as long as they'll own their part of the responsibility to create change, and keep moving forward. But if they use the addict label as an excuse not to change, that becomes part of the problem - and even then it's not about the addict label itself. It's about the fact that they're claiming to be helpless when that isn't the case.
I view the whole addict label debate as sort of an academic issue. I can insist on doing battle with someone over how they use the term, but that means that the debate over language will become the focus. Or I can let go of the debate, and focus on whether the person is in a place where they're interested in changing, what that might look like, and what they learning from trying. Because doing that, and the courage to talk about what's learned from both success and failure, is what matters.
None of that takes away from the importance of keeping up with the ongoing research about eating patterns, the influence of hyper-palatable foods on eating patterns, and whether and how there's any overlap with addictions. Because that's one hell of an interesting set of topics, at least for a nerd like me. And as information becomes clearer, hopefully we'll have more and better tools and strategies to help ourselves and others. But in the meantime I think the "I'm a sugar addict" "no you're not" "yes I am" dance is pointless, and takes away from what's really important.
Your post might be long but IMO worth a repost. It is by far one of the most reasonable and fair posts that I have read here in a long time.
I want to preface this with I have never been addicted to hard drugs nor have I ever felt as if I have any type of food addiction. Having said that...
I have battled the process of trying to quit smoking. I have also battled to stop using eating as a way to deal with other issues in my life. Eating became a way of distracting myself from the issues that I needed to face.
The anxiety that I experienced was and is the same in both cases...if I don't smoke what do I do now...if I don't eat what do I do now...
Thanks again for you post(s)...
I often wonder what happens with the OP after starting a thread that brings on these debates. Most often they disappear and are never heard from again.0
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