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Food Addiction - A Different Perspective
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That's part of what this thread is meant to address (I think - Carol can correct me if I'm wrong about that). Simply over-applying the label of addiction to a very wide range of behaviors actually does a disservice to the people suffering because of those behaviors. Being willing to take a closer look at those behaviors and define them more accurately can lead to more effective strategies and interventions.
Out of curiosity (and because you seem to know what you are talking about mostly) if you came across someone on the forums who claimed to be addicted to food what kind of questions would you ask them to elicit what the root cause of their issues were?
In addition, do you think there is generally a more preferable way of presenting or approaching this information which influences behaviour better than other approaches or is it really a "it depends" question?
I'll gladly discuss that with you via PM if you are interested, but I don't think it's a good idea to try it here. I don't believe you have to be a 'professional' to invite people to think through their impulses, cravings, and gut-level experiences (almost 70 years - and longer if you count A.A. - of experience among members of peer support groups for virtually any issue is proof of that), but considering how to approach it in this thread doesn't strike me as a discussion that will end up in a good place.
I want to be respectful of your question, but I am already regretting becoming as involved in this thread as I have been so far. I was so glad to see PeachyCarol's very thoughtful post, though, that it was pretty irresistible (omg an uncontrollable urge! JUST KIDDING).
I'm newish here, but to be blunt, my experience on these boards to date has shown me that I'm not a great fit for this community. There's nothing wrong with me or with the community - it's simply a reality that not every community can be a good fit for every individual! But constantly having to using a 'walk on eggshells' communication style here has worn me down, so I look elsewhere for support and dialogue. I don't want to pull this thread off-topic, and even if my involvement here is increasingly limited I'd rather not get labeled as a troll or whatever. So shoot me a PM if you like, and in the meantime I think I'll go back to lurker mode.
Much appreciation for the discussion so far!
Many thanks for your response and no worries about not wanting to discuss it on the open board. That's perfectly understandable and you are right that it has the potential to derail what is a useful thread.
I would hope you reconsider lurk mode though. Often when people debate well (ok, that may involve a little shouting at one and other at times...) it brings out perspectives I have not considered myself as an observer. Who wants to constantly talk into an echo chamber?
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Good post OP. And for all of the arguments we have in other threads, I am rather surprised there isn't more discussion or studies for the contrary.0
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Good post OP. And for all of the arguments we have in other threads, I am rather surprised there isn't more discussion or studies for the contrary.
Probably because OP's post demonstrated she has put a lot of time and thought into this, made sure she conveyed her opinions in a rational, logical, and neutral tone, and stressed that she was covering what she believes to be the salient points but she is open to hearing from others who may agree or disagree, with the ultimate goal of trying to help those people who truly believe they are "addicted to" food or a certain food.
I wish we had more threads like this but am curious why it was taken down for a while yesterday. I didn't see anything particularly contentious but I wasn't online for most of the afternoon so I don't know if things were removed by mods before it was reposted.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Good post OP. And for all of the arguments we have in other threads, I am rather surprised there isn't more discussion or studies for the contrary.
Probably because OP's post demonstrated she has put a lot of time and thought into this, made sure she conveyed her opinions in a rational, logical, and neutral tone, and stressed that she was covering what she believes to be the salient points but she is open to hearing from others who may agree or disagree, with the ultimate goal of trying to help those people who truly believe they are "addicted to" food or a certain food.
I wish we had more threads like this but am curious why it was taken down for a while yesterday. I didn't see anything particularly contentious but I wasn't online for most of the afternoon so I don't know if things were removed by mods before it was reposted.
Like many other threads, at times we have to take them off line to review them. And unfortunately, there is a lot of stuff that happens on the back end that we do to ensure rules are being followed. Also, we take them offline because it allows us to be able to conduct a thorough review without having to play catch up with 10 or more people posting at the same time.
Sorry to derail. Back on topic.
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I don't think I agree with any of you. Regarding and treating the problem as an addiction helped me. Identifying and understanding the nature of trigger foods and the way the affect me is important. Avoiding them as much as possible is good for me.
We need to know what we are talking about. Maybe it isn't the fat, or the sugar, or the responses in the body. Maybe it's the taste. The hyperpalatable foods. The man-made foods. Those that taste more and nourish less. Addiction to certain foods really do have some traits with drug addictions, but not all, in common. The consequences will be different, too. Nobody will sell their grandmother for a cupcake - you can get cupcakes everywhere, either free, or for a few cents. But you will gain weight, and you may destroy your health. I was malnourished and have suffered some permanent damage that I'm too ashamed to even talk about anonymously.
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
I would overeat, I would eat until there was nothing left, I would buy more, I would pass up breakfast, lunch and dinner, I would hide and avoid company so I could eat more, I would spread out my purchases and buy random stuff with it because I was ashamed. Is that addiction, or compulsion, or just a bad habit? Emotional eating? Lack of willpower? Don't know. I don't know if it's important what you call it, but the way you treat it, is important. I can handle five minutes of temptation in the checkout-line, but 24/7 in my house, I can not.
I like the taste of hyperpalatable foods - obviously. I like it too much. Ordinary food tasted like nothing, because my tastebuds were conditioned to the strong flavors of hyperpalatable food. The only alternative used to be the opposite - diet food, hypopalatable food. I would overeat that too, though, trying to find satisfaction. But then I decided that fat wasn't dangerous or fattening - eureka! I just needed to eat food I like that I can eat to satiety. As long as I choose real food (and everybody knows what that means, we just like to argue for the argument's sake), I can eat what I like, and how much I like. Because my appetite will guide me to what I need, and satiety kicks in when I have had enough nutrients. I didn't realise this until this spring. I'm 45 now. There is still a lot to learn.
Ask yourself or anyone else, "why do you eat"? The rational answer is "to fuel and restore my body". The irrational answer is "because it tastes good and I'm hungry". You can want to be rational, but lasting motivation depends on the irrational parts of the brain cooperating. Taste trumps health 9 out of 10 times. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to choose between health and taste?
Check out Mark Schatzker's new book, "The Dorito Effect", where he describes how hyperpalatable foods have become more and more tasty, and ordinary food more and more bland, leading us to overeat.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Good post OP. And for all of the arguments we have in other threads, I am rather surprised there isn't more discussion or studies for the contrary.
Probably because OP's post demonstrated she has put a lot of time and thought into this, made sure she conveyed her opinions in a rational, logical, and neutral tone, and stressed that she was covering what she believes to be the salient points but she is open to hearing from others who may agree or disagree, with the ultimate goal of trying to help those people who truly believe they are "addicted to" food or a certain food.
I wish we had more threads like this but am curious why it was taken down for a while yesterday. I didn't see anything particularly contentious but I wasn't online for most of the afternoon so I don't know if things were removed by mods before it was reposted.
Like many other threads, at times we have to take them off line to review them. And unfortunately, there is a lot of stuff that happens on the back end that we do to ensure rules are being followed. Also, we take them offline because it allows us to be able to conduct a thorough review without having to play catch up with 10 or more people posting at the same time.
Sorry to derail. Back on topic.
Thanks for the response. That's fair. I was just glad to see it back last night.
Ok, back to it!
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I do think that sounds like some kind of disorder, kommodevaran. Closer to addiction than what most are talking about, but also not in that it's focused on the taste of the food and its effect on your palate, not the chemical properties of the food. I'd compare it with alcoholism where sure most people have a drink of choice, but it's not like one over drinks because it's just so tasty, and when it comes down to it you may end up drinking something you dislike for the effect or just to keep drinking.
I also always am puzzled by the hyper palatable thing being equated with man made foods, or whatever, since to me most of the highly processed stuff you are talking about isn't even tasty by comparison with more traditional options. A Twinkie vs homemade cookies? IMO, twinkies are disgusting. McDonald's vs a well cooked ribeye? I'd think many would prefer the ribeye. I think the main reason convenience foods and store bought treats can be an issue is not that they are more tasty, but that they are currently super cheap and take no time to acquire, so can be eaten without effort or planning, mindlessly.
That's why for the overall problem of overeating I think it's about habit and environment.
I will go back to Caitwn's post above and say I also think there are exceptions and perhaps that was you. But that doesn't make it about the food rather than eating--most people will be too specific in their triggers to say it's the food.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I do think that sounds like some kind of disorder, kommodevaran. Closer to addiction than what most are talking about, but also not in that it's focused on the taste of the food and its effect on your palate, not the chemical properties of the food. I'd compare it with alcoholism where sure most people have a drink of choice, but it's not like one over drinks because it's just so tasty, and when it comes down to it you may end up drinking something you dislike for the effect or just to keep drinking.
I also always am puzzled by the hyper palatable thing being equated with man made foods, or whatever, since to me most of the highly processed stuff you are talking about isn't even tasty by comparison with more traditional options. A Twinkie vs homemade cookies? IMO, twinkies are disgusting. McDonald's vs a well cooked ribeye? I'd think many would prefer the ribeye. I think the main reason convenience foods and store bought treats can be an issue is not that they are more tasty, but that they are currently super cheap and take no time to acquire, so can be eaten without effort or planning, mindlessly.
That's why for the overall problem of overeating I think it's about habit and environment.
I will go back to Caitwn's post above and say I also think there are exceptions and perhaps that was you. But that doesn't make it about the food rather than eating--most people will be too specific in their triggers to say it's the food.
Yes, I have come to realize that my trigger foods are more diverse than most people's. As an outlier I can be both more and less interesting for the debate
You pinpointed some quirks that I can't really explain. I like "junk" a lot, but I will also (when not concoiusly restricting myself) eat too much of junk that I don't really like. Most chips sold here in Norway, for instance, doesn't taste like it used to, too salty, and the strange new oil makes the texture all wrong - but I would eat and eat and it, until the bag was empty. I do prefer homemade cookies, but I would normally eat storebought. I would have eaten good home cooked food, but my taste buds were warped - and to complicate it, as I said, I believed that fat had to be avoided. So I tried to avoid fat, but caved, and crashed, hard. Maybe also the cost, financially, but mostly mentally, stopped me from eating the more natural food? Not just the physical accessibility of store bought, or the price tag, but the mental hurdles in making something myself? Does the concious adding of sugar and fat to my home cooked meals and treats make the ingredients more visible? Getting something from the store hides what's really in it. At least I can pretend I don't know.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »
mentally dependent could0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I don't think I agree with any of you. Regarding and treating the problem as an addiction helped me. Identifying and understanding the nature of trigger foods and the way the affect me is important. Avoiding them as much as possible is good for me.
We need to know what we are talking about. Maybe it isn't the fat, or the sugar, or the responses in the body. Maybe it's the taste. The hyperpalatable foods. The man-made foods. Those that taste more and nourish less. Addiction to certain foods really do have some traits with drug addictions, but not all, in common. The consequences will be different, too. Nobody will sell their grandmother for a cupcake - you can get cupcakes everywhere, either free, or for a few cents. But you will gain weight, and you may destroy your health. I was malnourished and have suffered some permanent damage that I'm too ashamed to even talk about anonymously.
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
I would overeat, I would eat until there was nothing left, I would buy more, I would pass up breakfast, lunch and dinner, I would hide and avoid company so I could eat more, I would spread out my purchases and buy random stuff with it because I was ashamed. Is that addiction, or compulsion, or just a bad habit? Emotional eating? Lack of willpower? Don't know. I don't know if it's important what you call it, but the way you treat it, is important. I can handle five minutes of temptation in the checkout-line, but 24/7 in my house, I can not.
I like the taste of hyperpalatable foods - obviously. I like it too much. Ordinary food tasted like nothing, because my tastebuds were conditioned to the strong flavors of hyperpalatable food. The only alternative used to be the opposite - diet food, hypopalatable food. I would overeat that too, though, trying to find satisfaction. But then I decided that fat wasn't dangerous or fattening - eureka! I just needed to eat food I like that I can eat to satiety. As long as I choose real food (and everybody knows what that means, we just like to argue for the argument's sake), I can eat what I like, and how much I like. Because my appetite will guide me to what I need, and satiety kicks in when I have had enough nutrients. I didn't realise this until this spring. I'm 45 now. There is still a lot to learn.
Ask yourself or anyone else, "why do you eat"? The rational answer is "to fuel and restore my body". The irrational answer is "because it tastes good and I'm hungry". You can want to be rational, but lasting motivation depends on the irrational parts of the brain cooperating. Taste trumps health 9 out of 10 times. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to choose between health and taste?
Check out Mark Schatzker's new book, "The Dorito Effect", where he describes how hyperpalatable foods have become more and more tasty, and ordinary food more and more bland, leading us to overeat.
and this is what some of us have been trying to say0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
This was your personal experience, and I'd say this makes you an outlier. Most people who quit nicotine do experience withdrawal symptoms. Depending on the level of use, there can be headaches, nausea, dizziness, perspiration, loss of appetite, shaking, brain fog and a myriad of other potential symptoms. Quitting smoking was easier for you than it was for others, but that doesn't mean that nicotine is easy to quit for everyone. For most people, it's extraordinarily difficult, and the relapse rate is very high.
When it comes to food, it can't really be compared. People can't be asked to quit eating. Food is necessary to life. It may be possible to ask them to stop eating certain types of food, but it's actually much healthier to help people develop a healthy relationship with food so that avoidance isn't necessary in the first place.
And as far as hyperpalatable vs. whole foods? I know people who are obese and eat steak and potatoes to stay that way. They aren't sweets eaters or store bought food eaters at all. They're farmers. They claim they can't help eating mass quantities of steak. Is that an addiction? I'd argue no, in the same way I'd argue that a person isn't addiction to a cupcake or Doritos. It's never the food.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I do think that sounds like some kind of disorder, kommodevaran. Closer to addiction than what most are talking about, but also not in that it's focused on the taste of the food and its effect on your palate, not the chemical properties of the food. I'd compare it with alcoholism where sure most people have a drink of choice, but it's not like one over drinks because it's just so tasty, and when it comes down to it you may end up drinking something you dislike for the effect or just to keep drinking.
I also always am puzzled by the hyper palatable thing being equated with man made foods, or whatever, since to me most of the highly processed stuff you are talking about isn't even tasty by comparison with more traditional options. A Twinkie vs homemade cookies? IMO, twinkies are disgusting. McDonald's vs a well cooked ribeye? I'd think many would prefer the ribeye. I think the main reason convenience foods and store bought treats can be an issue is not that they are more tasty, but that they are currently super cheap and take no time to acquire, so can be eaten without effort or planning, mindlessly.
That's why for the overall problem of overeating I think it's about habit and environment.
I will go back to Caitwn's post above and say I also think there are exceptions and perhaps that was you. But that doesn't make it about the food rather than eating--most people will be too specific in their triggers to say it's the food.
I wonder if this is due to "laziness". I know that binging is different, but I will binge on whatever I have around the house that was easy so that I could shove it into my mouth quickly. I might have had the ingredients to make cookies, but there was no way that I was going to look up a recipe, measure out ingredients and wait for cookies to bake. But, if I had a box of something? Gone.
Of course, avoidance didn't really work for me because I would just binge on really strange things. Four cans of corn with stir fry sauce? Yup, it's what was in the pantry. The closest I came was when I was really bad and feared bringing much of anything into the house, and so I did make rice and waited the 15 minutes for that, but I wanted something sweet, so I mixed it with cinnamon and sugar. It was not tasty; I definitely don't recommend it (although perhaps it would have been better with butter...).
Anyways, I know binging is a little different, but I definitely have issues with controlling myself around hyper palatable foods no matter the source; I'm just more likely to run to the store and buy candy or cookies than attempt to make anything at home when the cravings hit hardcore. And avoidance did nothing for me; my life actually kind of spiraled at that point, and I had anxiety about buying food and what I could and could not keep around the house.
It's been a long road since then, but I'm far from perfect. I've had 4 pints of ice cream in the freezer for a few weeks and I'll occasionally have a serving if it fits in my calories (excited because tonight should be one of those nights). And some weeks I can have ice cream every night. But, I buy a pack of oreos, yeah, I never eat just one serving. Seriously? Two cookies? Ugh. I usually only buy them when we go hang out with friends so that I can share with others and spread the calories around. :laugh:0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
This was your personal experience, and I'd say this makes you an outlier. Most people who quit nicotine do experience withdrawal symptoms. Depending on the level of use, there can be headaches, nausea, dizziness, perspiration, loss of appetite, shaking, brain fog and a myriad of other potential symptoms. Quitting smoking was easier for you than it was for others, but that doesn't mean that nicotine is easy to quit for everyone. For most people, it's extraordinarily difficult, and the relapse rate is very high.
When it comes to food, it can't really be compared. People can't be asked to quit eating. Food is necessary to life. It may be possible to ask them to stop eating certain types of food, but it's actually much healthier to help people develop a healthy relationship with food so that avoidance isn't necessary in the first place.
And as far as hyperpalatable vs. whole foods? I know people who are obese and eat steak and potatoes to stay that way. They aren't sweets eaters or store bought food eaters at all. They're farmers. They claim they can't help eating mass quantities of steak. Is that an addiction? I'd argue no, in the same way I'd argue that a person isn't addiction to a cupcake or Doritos. It's never the food.
Maybe I am a special snowflake I react atypically to a lot of stuff. Sugar never gives me that high/energy boost that I read about. It tastes good, but I get tired immidiately, it often makes me (want to) lie down, and sleep. I don't feel relaxed and sociable from alcohol, it doesn't even make it easier to sleep, I just get dizzy and feel heavy, my memory fails and my mind slows down. I don't like it, it makes me feel more insecure around others. The only "normal" reaction I've had with alcohol, was with way too much once or twice when I was young, when I blacked out, did things I didn't want to, and passed out. Coffee has no effect on me either. I will get a high from pethidine, though, and I am energized and giggly when I wake from general anesthesia. I consumed around 20 cigarettes a day, for 10-12 years. I have to accept thet quitting can be painful for others, but for me it was just a bad habit. 0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »I
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
This was your personal experience, and I'd say this makes you an outlier. Most people who quit nicotine do experience withdrawal symptoms. Depending on the level of use, there can be headaches, nausea, dizziness, perspiration, loss of appetite, shaking, brain fog and a myriad of other potential symptoms. Quitting smoking was easier for you than it was for others, but that doesn't mean that nicotine is easy to quit for everyone. For most people, it's extraordinarily difficult, and the relapse rate is very high.
When it comes to food, it can't really be compared. People can't be asked to quit eating. Food is necessary to life. It may be possible to ask them to stop eating certain types of food, but it's actually much healthier to help people develop a healthy relationship with food so that avoidance isn't necessary in the first place.
And as far as hyperpalatable vs. whole foods? I know people who are obese and eat steak and potatoes to stay that way. They aren't sweets eaters or store bought food eaters at all. They're farmers. They claim they can't help eating mass quantities of steak. Is that an addiction? I'd argue no, in the same way I'd argue that a person isn't addiction to a cupcake or Doritos. It's never the food.
Maybe I am a special snowflake I react atypically to a lot of stuff. Sugar never gives me that high/energy boost that I read about. It tastes good, but I get tired immidiately, it often makes me (want to) lie down, and sleep. I don't feel relaxed and sociable from alcohol, it doesn't even make it easier to sleep, I just get dizzy and feel heavy, my memory fails and my mind slows down. I don't like it, it makes me feel more insecure around others. The only "normal" reaction I've had with alcohol, was with way too much once or twice when I was young, when I blacked out, did things I didn't want to, and passed out. Coffee has no effect on me either. I will get a high from pethidine, though, and I am energized and giggly when I wake from general anesthesia. I consumed around 20 cigarettes a day, for 10-12 years. I have to accept thet quitting can be painful for others, but for me it was just a bad habit.
You are an outlier if you had no nicotine withdrawal symptoms, I am too - but in the opposite direction. Most nicotine physical withdrawal symptoms are tolerable, but I almost needed to be hospitalized when I attempted to quit smoking cold turkey. I'm currently on the patch and it's a breeze in comparison. I guess the jump from 2+ packs a day to 0 is just too steep to be done in one step.
Speaking of smoking. The closest I may meet in the middle in terms of classifying food as an addiction is the cravings you get for a cigarettes at certain times, like after a meal or with coffee..etc. Although caused by quitting smoking, I don't consider them a direct result of this addiction, but a bunch of habitual associations a person has made throughout their smoking years. So in that sense, food "addiction" can have similar representations to real addictions, but that doesn't make it one. Regarding it as such leads to creating a disease model rather than a responsibility model.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »I
The withdrawal symptoms are not the same as for alcohol and drugs. But there are none for nicotine, either. I quit smoking nine years ago, and quitting smoking was way easier than quitting candy, chips, cookies. I don't get jittery thinking about cigarettes. But I do when I think about candy, chips, cookies.
This was your personal experience, and I'd say this makes you an outlier. Most people who quit nicotine do experience withdrawal symptoms. Depending on the level of use, there can be headaches, nausea, dizziness, perspiration, loss of appetite, shaking, brain fog and a myriad of other potential symptoms. Quitting smoking was easier for you than it was for others, but that doesn't mean that nicotine is easy to quit for everyone. For most people, it's extraordinarily difficult, and the relapse rate is very high.
When it comes to food, it can't really be compared. People can't be asked to quit eating. Food is necessary to life. It may be possible to ask them to stop eating certain types of food, but it's actually much healthier to help people develop a healthy relationship with food so that avoidance isn't necessary in the first place.
And as far as hyperpalatable vs. whole foods? I know people who are obese and eat steak and potatoes to stay that way. They aren't sweets eaters or store bought food eaters at all. They're farmers. They claim they can't help eating mass quantities of steak. Is that an addiction? I'd argue no, in the same way I'd argue that a person isn't addiction to a cupcake or Doritos. It's never the food.
Maybe I am a special snowflake I react atypically to a lot of stuff. Sugar never gives me that high/energy boost that I read about. It tastes good, but I get tired immidiately, it often makes me (want to) lie down, and sleep. I don't feel relaxed and sociable from alcohol, it doesn't even make it easier to sleep, I just get dizzy and feel heavy, my memory fails and my mind slows down. I don't like it, it makes me feel more insecure around others. The only "normal" reaction I've had with alcohol, was with way too much once or twice when I was young, when I blacked out, did things I didn't want to, and passed out. Coffee has no effect on me either. I will get a high from pethidine, though, and I am energized and giggly when I wake from general anesthesia. I consumed around 20 cigarettes a day, for 10-12 years. I have to accept thet quitting can be painful for others, but for me it was just a bad habit.
Forgot to mention that I've even tried Ritalin and amphetamine for suspected narcolepsy and ADHD; i felt no effect from either. Efexor just made me not care, and I didn't react to cold, and going from dark to bright light was suddenly easy. I did however get those head zaps from quitting Efexor cold turkey.0 -
Anyways, I know binging is a little different, but I definitely have issues with controlling myself around hyper palatable foods no matter the source; I'm just more likely to run to the store and buy candy or cookies than attempt to make anything at home when the cravings hit hardcore. And avoidance did nothing for me; my life actually kind of spiraled at that point, and I had anxiety about buying food and what I could and could not keep around the house.
What you say about bingeing on strange things and it not being about the taste is why true bingeing (not the way it's sometimes casually used on MFP to mean just overeating) has always sounded more similar to addiction to me (as I said to shell upthread) than people who focus on the difficulties with specific foods. There's no reason why a cookie would have a different effect than a cupcake than a Twinkie, but it's clear people may have one of those as a trigger and others as irrelevant. That's got to be emotional/psychological. (What I'd call comfort eating or driven by taste preference.)
But on the other hand, when the act of eating, just eating, whatever it is, has some psychological effect so that it blots out emotion or satisfies some compulsion, even and often when you aren't hungry and aren't enjoying the taste of the food, that sounds like addiction to me. Maybe there's a reason to call it something different, but the way in which it operates seems similar. Of course, you can't stop eating, though, so the issue becomes figuring out how to not eat in that way--which seems an issue for therapy.
I don't know; I do find it interesting. I don't feel like addiction is that clear cut either.
I think there's a distinction between not being interested in moderating something vs. being addicted to it, though. I've mentioned that I love naan many times, and that's how I feel about it, and Indian food in general. I'd rather have it less often and not worry about calories than just order carefully and have half a piece of naan. But I don't think that's about addiction, it's just how I like to enjoy certain foods.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Anyways, I know binging is a little different, but I definitely have issues with controlling myself around hyper palatable foods no matter the source; I'm just more likely to run to the store and buy candy or cookies than attempt to make anything at home when the cravings hit hardcore. And avoidance did nothing for me; my life actually kind of spiraled at that point, and I had anxiety about buying food and what I could and could not keep around the house.
What you say about bingeing on strange things and it not being about the taste is why bingeing has always sounded more similar to addiction to be (as I said to shell upthread) than people who focus on the difficulties with specific foods. There's no reason why a cookie would have a different effect than a cupcake than a Twinkie, but it's clear people may have one of those as a trigger and others as irrelevant. That's got to be emotional/psychological. (What I'd call comfort eating or driven by taste preference.)
But on the other hand, when the act of eating, just eating, whatever it is, has some psychological effect so that it blots out emotion or satisfies some compulsion, even and often when you aren't hungry and aren't enjoying the taste of the food, that sounds like addiction to me. Maybe there's a reason to call it something different, but the way in which it operates seems similar. Of course, you can't stop eating, though, so the issue becomes figuring out how to not eat in that way--which seems an issue for therapy.
I don't know; I do find it interesting. I don't feel like addiction is that clear cut either.
I think there's a distinction between not being interested in moderating something vs. being addicted to it, though. I've mentioned that I love naan many times, and that's how I feel about it, and Indian food in general. I'd rather have it less often and not worry about calories than just order carefully and have half a piece of naan. But I don't think that's about addiction, it's just how I like to enjoy certain foods.
True, but then going back to typical "I'm addicted to x" threads, I've never actually see anyone say they eat something even though they don't like the taste. It's always x tastes so good and I can never stop. Nevermind the "I can't stop eating sugar so I'm going to cut out all sugar and only eat fruit". Those truly seem to be about hyperpalatable foods, which is why substituting sugar in one form for sugar in another form works. It has nothing to do with the sugar; it's the "package" the food comes in; the flavor, mouth feel, fats and other goodies the sugar is suspended in.
But regardless, I do feel like my mentality switched once someone pointed out that I'm letting my binges take control. I had to be the one to stop them. Yes, it seems dumb. I feel like by far, the biggest obstacle to weight loss and most behavioral changes is our mind. Realizing we do have the power to change really feels like the first step to me.0 -
What about helping/advising people? Positive self talk was mentioned, and I think it's really undervalued. (If you can get Stuart Smalley out of your head, ha.)0
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My interpretation of some of the results is that trying to do the typical addiction treatment of total, lifelong withdrawal of substance might be the worst thing someone can do with a food they think is addictive. The dopamine lighting up that people call drug like tends to be highest for novel stimulus, so denying yourself for extended times is liable to make food cravings worse, not better.vivmom2014 wrote: »What about helping/advising people? Positive self talk was mentioned, and I think it's really undervalued. (If you can get Stuart Smalley out of your head, ha.)
Similarly, avoid any turning food into a reward kind of experience. Decoupling the two makes food only desirable as food, not as a way of capturing certain feelings.0
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