What are your feelings on calorie counting?

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

susan100df wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

Orphia wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

That's not the fault of calorie counting.

And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.

I am working hard to lose weight. Counting calories is part of my success. Definitely could do it without counting calories but see no reason to make it harder on myself. MFP makes eating at a deficit easier. Nothing wrong with using tools to make life easier.

And calorie counting was a large part of my failure.

Christine_72 wrote: »

HappyCampr1 wrote: »

srecupid wrote: »

It's effective but, can be sometimes annoying. Like I have a groupon for a pizza place that only has 2 locations. Instead I'm eating a pretty good frozen pizza for dinner because the box has calories printed on it. I haven't had a burrito from my local mexican place in 4 months because i don't know quite how to log it. I didn't get drunk the other night because i wasn't sure if my shot glasses were 1oz or 1.5oz shot glasses (probably for the best). Maybe I'm being too obsessive about this

Most of the difference between pizzas is going to be in the crust. Cheese is pretty much cheese and pepperoni is pretty much pepperoni. For local pizza places, I try to find a similar size pizza, with a similar crust (thin/crispy, hand tossed, pan...) from a national chain and use their entries. It's not exact, but it's generally close enough.

For Mexican, On the Border has pretty good online nutrition information for traditional Mexican food. Also, Moe's will let you customize burritos, nachos, tacos... and give you the nutritional information based on what you put on it. http://www.moes.com/food/nutrition/burritos/ At least it will give you an idea.

I can't help you with the shot glass. A food scale will fix that issue though and will also help with a whole host of logging issues you're sure to encounter in your journey. Good luck!

Yep, I just use the data from pizza hut, even though I never get pizzas from there. Same with other take away foods, I can usually find a substitute in the data base.

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history

Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?

"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."

...Or hangs out with druggies, among other things, I would imagine

But wow. Guess it's a good thing MFP updated their code to not display weight loss prediction for those consuming dangerously low amounts of food. It seems calorie counting would be more useful for people who love food so much that their survival instincts kick in when they're not having enough.

I do agree with every single suggestion to somehow present the user with some up front education on calorie target selection. It seems to be the answer to so many questions raised by users who struggle - why not present it up front?

Finally, as evidenced by preference and also repeat weight losers, we definitely know the tool is not a magic bullet that absolutely works for everyone the first time. Even I will be working on shifting some holiday pounds come January. But surely you're not saying that once you learn about nutrition (eat your fruit and veg, done?), you'll magically be able to keep the weight off? The bags of grapes I used to routinely consume over the course of a couple days would beg to differ

No, I'm not saying nutrition is the only thing. Calorie intake DOES matter. However, calorie counting can turn into an obsession, anorexic people were doing it way before MFP existed. So, I guess people with disorders, or who might find themselves in a disorder after calorie counting, should seek nutrition, and guidance. Whether it's binge eating, ednos, anorexia, bulimia, or plainly just needing more than MFP to understand the vast world of nutrition and calorie counting.

Also, a eating a bag of grapes within two days isn't following nutrition, it's eating a healthy food in excess. (:

glassyo wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history

Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?

"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."

...Or hangs out with druggies, among other things, I would imagine

But wow. Guess it's a good thing MFP updated their code to not display weight loss prediction for those consuming dangerously low amounts of food. It seems calorie counting would be more useful for people who love food so much that their survival instincts kick in when they're not having enough.

I do agree with every single suggestion to somehow present the user with some up front education on calorie target selection. It seems to be the answer to so many questions raised by users who struggle - why not present it up front?

Finally, as evidenced by preference and also repeat weight losers, we definitely know the tool is not a magic bullet that absolutely works for everyone the first time. Even I will be working on shifting some holiday pounds come January. But surely you're not saying that once you learn about nutrition (eat your fruit and veg, done?), you'll magically be able to keep the weight off? The bags of grapes I used to routinely consume over the course of a couple days would beg to differ

No, I'm not saying nutrition is the only thing. Calorie intake DOES matter. However, calorie counting can turn into an obsession, anorexic people were doing it way before MFP existed. So, I guess people with disorders, or who might find themselves in a disorder after calorie counting, should seek nutrition, and guidance. Whether it's binge eating, ednos, anorexia, bulimia, or plainly just needing more than MFP to understand the vast world of nutrition and calorie counting.

Also, a eating a bag of grapes within two days isn't following nutrition, it's eating a healthy food in excess. (:

Or, you know, eating too many calories and gaining weight. You can gain eating too much of anything.

Altho I'm surprised she did considering the affect grapes have on the digestive system.

gramarye wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

susan100df wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

Orphia wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

That's not the fault of calorie counting.

And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.

I am working hard to lose weight. Counting calories is part of my success. Definitely could do it without counting calories but see no reason to make it harder on myself. MFP makes eating at a deficit easier. Nothing wrong with using tools to make life easier.

And calorie counting was a large part of my failure.

Okay, and that sucks for you. It sounds like your ED was exacerbated by calorie counting, at which point you ought to conclude that MFP is the wrong tool for you. And I'm sorry you went through that -- honestly. I've got mental health issues too, and I would never wish any form of them on anyone.

But you're swinging really wildly around between a point about people not knowing nutrition (and please remind yourself that access to information is a privilege, not a given for a very large amount of people -- especially the poor, among whom weight issues are very common) and MFP being this big evil thing that's bad for people. Weight loss is a billion dollar industry that benefits from repeated failures, and often carefully encourages yo-yo dieting and body shaming as a way to keep people buying. And MFP displays just as many predatory practices as a company as Weight Watchers or anyone else. But the thread isn't about MFP a service. The OP asked how people feel about calorie counting.

Calorie counting, if you remove it the service you use to do it, is just one tool to achieve a task, and no toolbox only has a hammer. A combination of calorie counting, understanding nutrition, and understanding how much energy one's body uses are all necessary tools in long-term weight loss.

I'm not sure what you want to achieve here, but you might want to get to a thesis point eventually.

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

gramarye wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

susan100df wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

Orphia wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

That's not the fault of calorie counting.

And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.

I am working hard to lose weight. Counting calories is part of my success. Definitely could do it without counting calories but see no reason to make it harder on myself. MFP makes eating at a deficit easier. Nothing wrong with using tools to make life easier.

And calorie counting was a large part of my failure.

Okay, and that sucks for you. It sounds like your ED was exacerbated by calorie counting, at which point you ought to conclude that MFP is the wrong tool for you. And I'm sorry you went through that -- honestly. I've got mental health issues too, and I would never wish any form of them on anyone.

But you're swinging really wildly around between a point about people not knowing nutrition (and please remind yourself that access to information is a privilege, not a given for a very large amount of people -- especially the poor, among whom weight issues are very common) and MFP being this big evil thing that's bad for people. Weight loss is a billion dollar industry that benefits from repeated failures, and often carefully encourages yo-yo dieting and body shaming as a way to keep people buying. And MFP displays just as many predatory practices as a company as Weight Watchers or anyone else. But the thread isn't about MFP a service. The OP asked how people feel about calorie counting.

Calorie counting, if you remove it the service you use to do it, is just one tool to achieve a task, and no toolbox only has a hammer. A combination of calorie counting, understanding nutrition, and understanding how much energy one's body uses are all necessary tools in long-term weight loss.

I'm not sure what you want to achieve here, but you might want to get to a thesis point eventually.

Of course as conversation flows other things are bound to be brought up. Apparently, you just decide to pop in when it's on a whole new level, allowing yourself to have the argument of a "thesis." This isn't a college essay, and if I wanted to hold a conversation like such I would do at my own choosing. Apparently a communication course would do you well.

JaneiR36 wrote: »

glassyo wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

JaneiR36 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history

Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?

"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."

...Or hangs out with druggies, among other things, I would imagine

But wow. Guess it's a good thing MFP updated their code to not display weight loss prediction for those consuming dangerously low amounts of food. It seems calorie counting would be more useful for people who love food so much that their survival instincts kick in when they're not having enough.

I do agree with every single suggestion to somehow present the user with some up front education on calorie target selection. It seems to be the answer to so many questions raised by users who struggle - why not present it up front?

Finally, as evidenced by preference and also repeat weight losers, we definitely know the tool is not a magic bullet that absolutely works for everyone the first time. Even I will be working on shifting some holiday pounds come January. But surely you're not saying that once you learn about nutrition (eat your fruit and veg, done?), you'll magically be able to keep the weight off? The bags of grapes I used to routinely consume over the course of a couple days would beg to differ

No, I'm not saying nutrition is the only thing. Calorie intake DOES matter. However, calorie counting can turn into an obsession, anorexic people were doing it way before MFP existed. So, I guess people with disorders, or who might find themselves in a disorder after calorie counting, should seek nutrition, and guidance. Whether it's binge eating, ednos, anorexia, bulimia, or plainly just needing more than MFP to understand the vast world of nutrition and calorie counting.

Also, a eating a bag of grapes within two days isn't following nutrition, it's eating a healthy food in excess. (:

Or, you know, eating too many calories and gaining weight. You can gain eating too much of anything.

Altho I'm surprised she did considering the affect grapes have on the digestive system.

Really? I still buy grapes sometimes when they accidentally jump all by themselves into my grocery cart. Never noticed a thing!

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

Orphia wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

whaddupw8loss wrote: »

In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."

Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.

It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place

My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?

In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.

Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?

Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.

I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.

I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.

I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.

That's not the fault of calorie counting.

And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.

You seem very defensive about calorie counting and this app/site. I have to wonder if this community is a positive place for you, given your negative experiences. I know you keep qualifying trying to say that you aren't saying it's wrong for everyone, but your words and the intent behind them seem to be very pessimistic about the odds of success for the average person using this site for calorie counting AND learning how to be healthier, when in fact it is working for SO many people.

MFP is not always a good fit for everyone, particularly those who have had an eating disorder or in recovery for one.

I wish you continued success with your health, fitness and educational goals, whatever path you choose.

Not really? I'm NOT a pessimist about this site. I am glad it's helping people. I have yet to go to any of the people saying that it's working for them and telling them rude and negative things. My failure from this site doesn't make me hate this site, it doesn't make me hate the people who succeed. I don't honestly know how it literally got this far and blown out of proportion. You don't have to believe that, there are people who come on here who were better off not coming. That's not being a pessimist. That's being real. Continue on doing what works for you, I never once tried to stop you, or anyone. Just because you beg to differ with me, doesn't mean that I'm being negative.