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Keto

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  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    "They" (meaning me) were saying that most people eating at a caloric deficit may want to consider taking a multivitamin. "They" also implied (or tried to imply) that perhaps the individual's health benefits from eating low carb would outweigh a recommendation to eat more servings of fruit and veggies, especially if they are high GI produce.

    Others in that thread seem to think fruits and veggies are the only place to get your nutrients.

    I can't speak for others in the thread but I think it is inappropriate to recommend that a large minority of the population would benefit from going low carb if it means that the individual, who may or may not have medical reasons to restrict carbs, would start building a large portion of their daily calorie consumption around whipping cream, butter, pork rinds, bacon and cheese at the expense of fruits and vegetables or other nutrient dense foods: whole grains, lean protein, etc.

    The OP here never mentioned any medical reason to restrict carbs. She has high cholesterol and wants to lose weight. Her doctor advised her against keto. Yet once again, everyone is still arguing about the same thing we are arguing about in several threads simultaneously. If a ketogenic diet is beneficial health wise for someone who has not mentioned a medical reason to restrict carbs.

    Gee. Good thing I never said that then, eh?

    I am not the one who brought up another thread.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    yarwell wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    Yes, as triglycerides represent long term fat storage, losing weight, at least losing fat, tends to require turning available triglycerides into energy. It is certainly possible (though rare) for someone to be in sustained calorie deficit and have their triglycerides go up, but it would tend to indicate some kind of other health issue that needs addressing.

    The concentration of triglycerides in the bloodstream doesn't really tell us definitively about the flux or the reserves though. This summary of some diet trials shows changes in TG levels in blood :-

    1pamupsim4s3.png

    Those are data points comparing types of diets, not total amount of weight loss, nor percentage of weight loss.
    I already said weight loss can't guarantee triglyceride changes, but just as surely as low carb is going to lower glucose, losing weight is going to lower triglycerides, for pretty much the same reasons - less in, while metabolic demands still requiring more go out.

    They are but they show the change in triglycerides. The low carb arms achieved greater reductions in triglycerides, didn't they ?

    I picked one reference off the graph, 2 kg of fat loss on the low fat arm left them with the same triglycerides at 6 months as baseline. So as you say weight loss doesn't guarantee reductions in triglycerides.

    I don't follow your argument that less in means lower triglycerides. Weight loss does not per se mean less triglyceride entering the bloodstream, one could be eating more or less triglyceride while losing weight. The fat being drawn from storage is present as free fatty acids, not triglycerides. Triglyceride production from excess carbohydrate is also a consideration, irrespective of weight loss.

    [ Ref ]

    If you're losing fat, that means your body has to be losing triglycerides. While it cannot guarantee that you'll pull them out of your blood, you're body would have to be in a rather abnormal state to be manufacturing more triglycerides than you're using while in a deficit, would it not?

    I'm also not denying you can lower cholesterol on a low carb or ketogenic diet. I kind of dislike that authoer using VLCD as short for very low carb when the c in VLCD is usually calorie. A VLCD where C means calorie can end up lowering HDL, and that is the kind of VLCD I referred to earlier when I said such.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    At least in this thread no one has claimed cholesterol doesn't matter for women.
  • pollypocket1021
    pollypocket1021 Posts: 533 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    At least in this thread no one has claimed cholesterol doesn't matter for women.

    It scares me to hear women are being prescribed statins, regardless of cholesterol levels. I think that's where the "cholesterol doesn't matter for women" thing comes from.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    pollypocket1021 wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    At least in this thread no one has claimed cholesterol doesn't matter for women.

    It scares me to hear women are being prescribed statins, regardless of cholesterol levels. I think that's where the "cholesterol doesn't matter for women" thing comes from.

    Actually, it is probably me.... In another thread I stated that high cholesterol is not a strongly linked health risk for women (especially post menopausal) for CAD. I just don't believe that a correlation of high cholesterol and CAD means causation. An analogy I have seen a few times is that it would be like blaming firefighters for fires because they are always at the scene.

    Anyways, it wasn't well received or believed so I think the comment just a small shot at me and probably nothing to do with statin over prescription. The PP and I often do not see eye to eye. No worries.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,439 MFP Moderator
    edited January 2016
    OP, one thing you might want to try to discuss going lower carb prior to jumping keto and seeing how your body response (through regular blood test). Some people, even with weight loss and exercise, see huge increases in cholesterol. Some see the benefit.

    Generally, the way I do things is start by getting calories under control and concentrating on the types of foods, whole grains, fruits, veggies, fish, lean proteins (aiming for foods low in saturated fat and high in unsaturated fats and omega-3s), and then I vary macronutrients.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    pollypocket1021 wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    At least in this thread no one has claimed cholesterol doesn't matter for women.

    It scares me to hear women are being prescribed statins, regardless of cholesterol levels. I think that's where the "cholesterol doesn't matter for women" thing comes from.

    Actually, it is probably me.... In another thread I stated that high cholesterol is not a strongly linked health risk for women (especially post menopausal) for CAD. I just don't believe that a correlation of high cholesterol and CAD means causation. An analogy I have seen a few times is that it would be like blaming firefighters for fires because they are always at the scene.

    Anyways, it wasn't well received or believed so I think the comment just a small shot at me and probably nothing to do with statin over prescription. The PP and I often do not see eye to eye. No worries.

    Doesn't matter if it causative, cholesterol is incredibly predictive. If someone's cholesterol is high, they make life style changes or learn to accept they're going to have a cardiovascular event.

    For women cholesterol is perfectly specific for predicting cardiac events, the only issue it has it that lack sensitivity. For around 20% of women who have a cardiovascular event, they lacked high cholesterol, instead c-reaticve protein might have been able to predict it. It doesn't in any shape or form mean that people with high cholesterol aren't heard to a cardiovascular event.
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