Trying to be Supportive
simplyGigi
Posts: 12 Member
My son has become a MFP addict. In order to support him in his efforts I have joined him in his efforts. I have gained some weight the past couple of years due to lack of working out and picked up some bad eating habits. I know what i need to do change and am putting those changes in place with good success.
My issue is his militant attitude about weight loss. I have had to lose weight in the past..after child birth etc. I have been successful in my efforts and have kept it off for many years.
Since teaming up with my son I have been browsing these threads and find it alarming that he has the same attitude as many people who post on this board. There is only CICO. That is fine if that works for you but that mentality does not work for me. I have lost six pounds since Christmas and am feeling awesome.
I thought coming on this site would increase my motivation but between the attitudes newbies get on this site and my sons preaching about macros etc. ... Not very motivating,
My issue is his militant attitude about weight loss. I have had to lose weight in the past..after child birth etc. I have been successful in my efforts and have kept it off for many years.
Since teaming up with my son I have been browsing these threads and find it alarming that he has the same attitude as many people who post on this board. There is only CICO. That is fine if that works for you but that mentality does not work for me. I have lost six pounds since Christmas and am feeling awesome.
I thought coming on this site would increase my motivation but between the attitudes newbies get on this site and my sons preaching about macros etc. ... Not very motivating,
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Replies
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CICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.0 -
My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.0 -
Wanted to add that this program is working great for him. JUst not for me.0
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What about mfp is not working for you?0
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simplyGigi wrote: »My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.
Maybe the community forum is not for you. Most eveyone here is trying to be helpful and doing this out of our own time.0 -
Could you explain by what you mean by over the top please?
And if CICO isn't what you are doing to lose weight while counting calories, what are you doing?
There is often brevity, conciseness, and people can get a little emphatic, but really most people are trying to get across the point that you can diet in whichever safe way you wish, but you have to eat less than you expend to lose weight. CICO.
Cheers, h.0 -
Maybe just steer clear of the forums, do some research and keep using the app. Try a few things out for yourself and see what works for you personally. By at least tracking your food you're keeping yourself accountable and also able to identify patterns that could be helping or hindering your weight loss journey. Good luck to you Gigi!0
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queenliz99 wrote: »simplyGigi wrote: »My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.
Maybe the community forum is not for you. Most eveyone here is trying to be helpful and doing this out of our own time.queenliz99 wrote: »simplyGigi wrote: »My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.
Maybe the community forum is not for you. Most eveyone here is trying to be helpful and doing this out of our own time.
Nah. Much of what I read is pretty negative and just turns into some sort of personal joke. Again, just my opinion. That being said, you are most likely correct.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »simplyGigi wrote: »My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.
Maybe the community forum is not for you. Most eveyone here is trying to be helpful and doing this out of our own time.queenliz99 wrote: »simplyGigi wrote: »My apologies, theCICO is the bottom line. There are many different ways to go about it, but unless you take in less than you're expending, you don't lose weight. Low-fat, low-carb, IIFYM, keto, Paleo, vegan/vegetarian, intermittent fasting....all different ways to do it. But no matter what, calories are still king. That's not opinion, that's fact.
The only time I see newbies get "attitude" is when they start spouting woo about detoxes/cleanses, VLCDs, MLM products, diet pills or other unsafe/fad diet methods....and even then it's not so much "attitude" as it is people correcting the misinformation with evidence-based facts. Whether the OP chooses to believe it and benefit from the education or flounce off in a huff, hopefully the information will benefit somebody else who reads the thread further down the line.
My apologies, the newbies are not the ones with the attitude. I find the replies to be over the top from self proclaimed experts. Just my opinion.
Maybe the community forum is not for you. Most eveyone here is trying to be helpful and doing this out of our own time.
Nah. Much of what I read is pretty negative and just turns into some sort of personal joke. Again, just my opinion. That being said, you are most likely correct.
So, now I am curious. Which ones are you speaking of?0 -
Excellent thread on this subject.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp/p10 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Could you explain by what you mean by over the top please?
And if CICO isn't what you are doing to lose weight while counting calories, what are you doing?
There is often brevity, conciseness, and people can get a little emphatic, but really most people are trying to get across the point that you can diet in whichever safe way you wish, but you have to eat less than you expend to lose weight. CICO.
Cheers, h.
Guessing you mean empathetic, of which i do not see much empathy around here. It is CICO, macros, food scale and nothing else. If your opinion is different it becomes some long, drawn out thread with a bunch of nonsense and that to me is negative. So, this (sadly) may not be the place for me.0 -
I think middlehaitch meant what they said-some answers are emphatic and can sound a bit short but usually have good info.0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Excellent thread on this subject.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp/p1
Hmmm. Yeah have already read that. Not at all motivating to me, I feel it justifies the behavior on the board.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »middlehaitch wrote: »Could you explain by what you mean by over the top please?
And if CICO isn't what you are doing to lose weight while counting calories, what are you doing?
There is often brevity, conciseness, and people can get a little emphatic, but really most people are trying to get across the point that you can diet in whichever safe way you wish, but you have to eat less than you expend to lose weight. CICO.
Cheers, h.
Guessing you mean empathetic, of which i do not see much empathy around here. It is CICO, macros, food scale and nothing else. If your opinion is different it becomes some long, drawn out thread with a bunch of nonsense and that to me is negative. So, this (sadly) may not be the place for me.
I've been around here long enough to recognize which posters are just being obnoxious and which are trying to help. Overwhelmingly, posters want to help, even if they may come across as being short. Although I would agree that, on occasion, there are some who like to give answers that I wouldn't consider appropriate and couch it as "tough love," "telling it like it is," "I don't believe in sugar-coating," etc., I truly believe those are very few and far between.
At the end of the day, weight loss is about eating fewer calories than you burn, so it is CICO. Most people don't really care about how you get there unless it's evident a person may be doing it in a way that can be harmful. A lot of posters also want newbies to understand that they don't have to waste money on things that are unnecessary for weight loss and that a person doesn't have to be miserable while losing (whether that be eating at a ridiculous deficit or beating themselves up for eating things they think they shouldn't, or whatever). As for the food scale, there are tons of posts about people not losing, and inaccurate food logging is most often the culprit. Therefore, a food scale is recommended as a way to more accurately determine CI. No one says you MUST use one, but that's usually the best fix for inaccurate logging, and hence not losing.
If you stick around long enough, you'll probably see this as well. Whatever you're doing to lose weight, your CO are more than your CI. If you're able to do that without having to be accurate with your food logging, good for you. There are a whole hell of a lot of us who can't do that. Most people here really don't want others to struggle as they may have.0 -
Thank you @paulandrachelk. What I said is what I meant.
Empathy is shown quite often in these forums though. The depression, PCOS, injury, posts are excellent examples.
Yes there can be threads that devolve, some to hilarity; some to quite acrimonious confrontations, but these are in the minority. You can generally guess that if a thread gets to 3 pages it has devolved one way or another.
Most threads are full of good advice often given to someone resisting the knowledge that others using MFP have learnt through personal experience and peer reviewed articles.
If these people are the know it alls, keep them coming they have taught me so much.
Cheers, h.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Excellent thread on this subject.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp/p1
Hmmm. Yeah have already read that. Not at all motivating to me, I feel it justifies the behavior on the board.
Then you're probably correct that you may not enjoy participating in the discussions. The ones most often termed as "mean people" are the ones dispelling false information and trying to provide helpful, scientifically-proven tips rather than blindly "supporting" or encouraging people who are on the wrong track.
These forums would be totally useless if everybody just cheered "Yay, go you!" every time somebody came on posting that they were going to eat 500 calories per day of broccoli and do 3 hours of cardio, or live on a 60-day "juice cleanse". Even if the OP is hard set on going down that path, it does a service to other members/readers to present the science about why it's wrong and shouldn't be done. That's not being "mean" or "unsupportive", that's trying to be helpful. There are times when coddling people accomplishes nothing useful.
If I was trying to build muscle and was working out on an ineffective routine I cobbled together with no knowledge of how to properly do it, I wouldn't want a bunch of pom-pom wavers responding to my post patting me on the behind and offering best wishes on reaching my goals. I'd appreciate somebody who came in and told me I was going about it all wrong, then offered me links to solid training routines and diet guidelines. The former does nothing for me, the latter helps me reach my goals. If they were a little brusque or made light of my lack of knowledge in the process, I'd gladly accept that in return for the free, useful advice they provided.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »middlehaitch wrote: »Could you explain by what you mean by over the top please?
And if CICO isn't what you are doing to lose weight while counting calories, what are you doing?
There is often brevity, conciseness, and people can get a little emphatic, but really most people are trying to get across the point that you can diet in whichever safe way you wish, but you have to eat less than you expend to lose weight. CICO.
Cheers, h.
Guessing you mean empathetic, of which i do not see much empathy around here. It is CICO, macros, food scale and nothing else. If your opinion is different it becomes some long, drawn out thread with a bunch of nonsense and that to me is negative. So, this (sadly) may not be the place for me.
I did mean emphatic.
What other type of opinion are you looking for?
Styles of eating, timing of meals, and choice of food are personal choices.
If CICO isn't what you are doing to lose weight while counting calories, what are you doing?
Is there an alternative to CICO?
What are examples of the nonsense?
CICO is the science proven way to lose weight.
A food scale is the closest one can get to accurately knowing ones calorie consumption to lose weight.
Macros are talked about a lot because on a lower than optimal food intake, eating at a deficit, it is important to take care of ones health as well as possible. Tracking macros and micros does that.
Some illnesses also require tracking these to improve or stabilize said illness.
The things that you say are consistently talked about are so because they are the basics to succeed.
You, and others are correct, this may not be the place for you. I hope not. I hope will come to appreciate the forums and support your son as he loses weight.
After 5 years I am still learning.
Cheers, h.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Excellent thread on this subject.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp/p1
Hmmm. Yeah have already read that. Not at all motivating to me, I feel it justifies the behavior on the board.
It does explain the motives and justifies the passion with which frequent, well educated, experienced posters seek to educate others.
Many are here for no other reason than to share their knowledge. They are here to ensure that the blind are not leading the blind.
They aren't here to get help but to offer it to others. They have no questions and need no support yet they are here to lend support to others.
Is that support always warm and fuzzy? Nope.
Sometimes it comes in the form of telling someone that the lemon water they believe in so strongly is no more than a placebo or that overly restrictive zero-fat diet they want to try will make their hair fall out.
Why not leave these things alone?
Because it's important that people know the truth.
We have worked. We have learned. We have studied. We have researched. We have experienced.
We have armed ourselves with facts and knowledge about the human body, fitness and nutrition.
On this board are lifetimes of study and experience in fitness and nutrition.
We are here to help each other.
Blind support is no support.
We aren't here to sing kumbaya and encourage each other to try whatever fad/product/hoax/misguided diet they fancy.
We're here to help each other learn the truth about how the body, fitness and nutrition work.
I'd rather someone told me what would really work for me than to wish me good luck on a misguided effort.
So yes, sometimes we'll tell someone "no, that won't work" or "actually, science has shown that not to be true" or "no, don't do that because it's dangerous."
Sometimes it means we'll have a week long debate about whether or not the reputation added sugars have is deserved or whether some foods are bad or if there are only bad diets instead.
But the point is we're trying to help people. And not only are we trying to help those who post their questions but also the potentially hundreds of others who will read the responses.
Do some people get offended that we don't support their use of diet pills or because we correct them when they make claims about weight loss or fitness that have been proven wrong? Sure.
But would it be better if we kept our knowledge to ourselves and let people believe whatever they want to believe, even if those beliefs lead them into unhealthy actions, further weight loss struggles and disappointment?
No.0 -
Stick around Gigi. The forum is nutty but most people are here to help and encourage you. There's really only a handful that are here to be cruel. Click their username and select ignore. You won't see their posts after that.
Counting calories is really easy. Makes more sense than anything I've tried. Don't let the forum scare you off. You can eat any way you want while counting. All it really does is control your portions. It gets easier as your food list fills up. I committed to logging for 30 days. By day 9 I was convinced it was a tool that could be a game changer for me. I passed 200 days this week.
You can use MFP and not read the forums.0 -
susan100df wrote: »Stick around Gigi. The forum is nutty but most people are here to help and encourage you. There's really only a handful that are here to be cruel. Click their username and select ignore. You won't see their posts after that.
You can use MFP and not read the forums.
Fantastic advice! I didn't even realize we could ignore people.. I haven't had the need, personally, but I've got pretty thick skin I guess after years of participating in online forums elsewhere.
Also @simplyGigi , the reason you'll see so much reinforcement of CICO is because every successful diet ever known to mankind has worked on this principle. They all restrict calories, regardless of whether they try to adjust your utilization of energy.
I stayed away from the forums for most of my first year using this site.0 -
This is not a program, it is a tool.
Use it in whatever way works best for you.
If the message boards don't help you, don't use them. In the alternative, you might find that discussion off of the main board (with friends, in groups, in the Motivation and Support section, etc.) have a tone that is more useful for you.
Best of luck!
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Ha! @tomteboda I joined here in 2010 and only felt knowledgable enough to make meaningful posts a year ago.
10 days of thread reading can be pretty scary when you first start and haven't got personalities and rhythm sorted.
Cheers, h.0 -
I guess I'm lost. Your son seems to be doing pretty well by himself losing weight and enjoying the community, but you teamed up with him to support him, even though you yourself would like to lose some weight? Or just for fun? So now you're not having the same fun he is and this is an announcement sharing why? I'm just not very clear what you hoped to get out of making your post.0
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Did you join to support your son or not? I can't tell if you're criticizing MFP members or your son in your posts.
Maybe this place isn't for you, you don't sound happy, and I doubt your son is being helped any by your involvement.0 -
If you feel weight watchers, slimming world, whatever helped you in the past is a better programme for yourself than logging in this sense, then do what works for you! But you're son, in all fairness is scientifically taking control of his diet (macros may seem obsessive but isn't it great to know he isn't exceeding nationally recognised guidelines for salt, sugar etc?) And I'm sure he is savvy enough go not get sucked into the 1% who aren't that helpful! Good luck! !0
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I think it will all depend on how you take the comments, you don't have to follow what others do down to the letter, it is what works for them. You need to find what works for you (and is safe of course).
I do a lot of background reading and don't really comment on a lot of questions, but over the time I've been on the forum I made some realisations through reading that, had I known these years ago it might have made it easier to stick to my weightloss plan.
You also have to realise that a lot of people on here have seen the same questions over and over and over again and the answer is always the same because weightloss in principle is the same for everyone. Sometimes that makes people short, snarky, sarcastic, mean whatever you want to call it. It doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't sound advice.0 -
simplyGigi wrote: »My son has become a MFP addict. In order to support him in his efforts I have joined him in his efforts. I have gained some weight the past couple of years due to lack of working out and picked up some bad eating habits. I know what i need to do change and am putting those changes in place with good success.
My issue is his militant attitude about weight loss. I have had to lose weight in the past..after child birth etc. I have been successful in my efforts and have kept it off for many years.
Since teaming up with my son I have been browsing these threads and find it alarming that he has the same attitude as many people who post on this board. There is only CICO. That is fine if that works for you but that mentality does not work for me. I have lost six pounds since Christmas and am feeling awesome.
I thought coming on this site would increase my motivation but between the attitudes newbies get on this site and my sons preaching about macros etc. ... Not very motivating,
If you have found a way to lose weight that suits you and have an issue with your son's attitude, perhaps it would be best if you both just stick to what you like to do to lose weight and don't try to impose your methodology on each other?
There's more than one way to skin a cat.0 -
There is only one way to lose weight: by taking in fewer calories than you burn (CICO). There are many ways to get there, but in the end, it all boils down to CICO.
If someone drinks shakes instead of eating meals and they lose weight, what do you think is the reason for that:
(a) The shake they drink at each meal has fewer calories than the food they used to eat at each meal; or
(b) The shake has magical properties that make them lose weight.
What is it about CICO that you think doesn't work for some people, other than that said people somehow defy the laws of physics?
When you have lost weight in the past, what method did you use?
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The truth isn't supposed to be pretty or hug you or empathize with you. If you are losing weight it is because you are eating less than you are burning. How you accomplish that is up to you, but that's the very bottom line.
Once you clear your mind of all the bad science weight loss clutter that has been accumulating, weight loss becomes so much easier.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »simplyGigi wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Excellent thread on this subject.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp/p1
Hmmm. Yeah have already read that. Not at all motivating to me, I feel it justifies the behavior on the board.
It does explain the motives and justifies the passion with which frequent, well educated, experienced posters seek to educate others.
Many are here for no other reason than to share their knowledge. They are here to ensure that the blind are not leading the blind.
They aren't here to get help but to offer it to others. They have no questions and need no support yet they are here to lend support to others.
Is that support always warm and fuzzy? Nope.
Sometimes it comes in the form of telling someone that the lemon water they believe in so strongly is no more than a placebo or that overly restrictive zero-fat diet they want to try will make their hair fall out.
Why not leave these things alone?
Because it's important that people know the truth.
We have worked. We have learned. We have studied. We have researched. We have experienced.
We have armed ourselves with facts and knowledge about the human body, fitness and nutrition.
On this board are lifetimes of study and experience in fitness and nutrition.
We are here to help each other.
Blind support is no support.
We aren't here to sing kumbaya and encourage each other to try whatever fad/product/hoax/misguided diet they fancy.
We're here to help each other learn the truth about how the body, fitness and nutrition work.
I'd rather someone told me what would really work for me than to wish me good luck on a misguided effort.
So yes, sometimes we'll tell someone "no, that won't work" or "actually, science has shown that not to be true" or "no, don't do that because it's dangerous."
Sometimes it means we'll have a week long debate about whether or not the reputation added sugars have is deserved or whether some foods are bad or if there are only bad diets instead.
But the point is we're trying to help people. And not only are we trying to help those who post their questions but also the potentially hundreds of others who will read the responses.
Do some people get offended that we don't support their use of diet pills or because we correct them when they make claims about weight loss or fitness that have been proven wrong? Sure.
But would it be better if we kept our knowledge to ourselves and let people believe whatever they want to believe, even if those beliefs lead them into unhealthy actions, further weight loss struggles and disappointment?
No.
+1000
I would also add that the vast majority of those trying to help others were once in the same place as those currently needing the help. There were people that helped me when I started, so now, having lost 75 lbs in a year and having learned TONS in the process, I try to pay it forward. We know what works and what doesn't because we've been there.
Congrats on your weight loss. Sounds like your best move would be to un-team with your son since his manner of achieving his goals obviously doesn't mesh with yours.simplyGigi wrote: »Since teaming up with my son I have been browsing these threads and find it alarming that he has the same attitude as many people who post on this board. There is only CICO. That is fine if that works for you but that mentality does not work for me. I have lost six pounds since Christmas and am feeling awesome.
But one thing you really need to get out of this thread is the fact that there really IS only CICO. And it's not a "mentality," - it's science. Regardless of how you choose to achieve the eat-less-than-you-burn ratio, without doing so you will not lose weight.
It's really that simple.
And that complex.
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This discussion has been closed.
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