OK.........So now I'm sad after researching this...................
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I do believe that natural foods are healthier. BUT I still need to lose weight. After reading the book "Eat Fat, Lose Fat," our family started using whole milk, butter, coconut oil, and I occasionally use olive oil or bacon grease. (I keep a jar in the fridge, and save some if I'm running low. It's basically free if you cook bacon, as opposed to $3-$4 per pound of butter.) I grew up drinking Sweet 'N Low tea, after the price of sugar went so high in the late 70's, so I'm used to it and I have been using Sweet 'N Low in tea and sometimes coffee for years. My grandfather's doctor told him one time that you can't pour enough saccharine in you to cause cancer. True or not? Who knows, but I actually feel safer with Sweet 'N Low than Nutrasweet and possibly Splenda. I also use stevia powder in smoothies, and use stevia drops in my coffee. I recently read that honey is not safe if it is heated.
There is some good info on this site http://www.westonaprice.org/ about natural foods. Also check out their facebook page, as well as the one called Nourishing Our Children. They are closely related.
Since I still need to lose weight, I'm doing some "healthy" (according to the above website) and natural foods, and some that are lower calorie. I have found that I do much better if I track my food consistently. I don't stress over the fat grams, but don't use large amounts of fat at a time, usually just 1/2 tablespoon to 1 tablespoon. I've lost 50-55 pounds (fluctuates) since 9/13/14. Not fast, but steadily going in the right direction. You will find info out there that says that nearly EVERYTHING is unhealthy. Read the info available, and pay attention to your body. I do know I feel better if I don't consume too much sugar, though I have a little chocolate and other occasional sweets at least 3-4 times most weeks. Even my thin husband feels better if we have fewer processed carbs. We have rice 2-3 times most weeks, legumes often, and occasionally other grains, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, etc. Even starchy veggies are more "natural" and less processed than pasta and bread, though we have both bread and pasta sometimes, too. We eat more beef than chicken, and I was trying to cook fish once a week. Need to get back to that, as it's a good change for the menu, and broiled fish is a quick and easy meal.
Moderation, and keeping your calories in balanced with your calories out are the key. I hope you find what works well for you!0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »@stevencloser and @Wetcoaster glad you guys showed up.
I'm too busy to spend time dispelling derp and woo by myself and this thread is so full of it I didn't know where to start.
And up till know it's basically been left free to misinform.
Ok, here goes:
OP, what you read was a woo article written on a basis of misinformed fear and not on real scientific facts.
Something being a "foreign chemical" doesn't make it bad for you. It doesn't make you store fat.
Only a calorie surplus can make you store fat.
Sure, fat metabolism may be temporarily affected by an insulin spike but it comes out in the wash at the end of the day because your body won't store energy it needs to use and it will have to pull it from fat if you aren't eating more than you burn.
Also, almost everything spikes insulin.
Carbs spike insulin.
Protein spikes insulin (fact!)
Regular coffee spikes insulin.
Even some fats spike insulin.
Every food in the world can be painted to cause fat gain and disease if enough spin is put on it.
Unless, you have a medical condition to consider, just eat what you like and keep to your calorie goal.
So this0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Even if the artificials do spike your insulin - if that's all you had was a diet drink - there is nothing to store as fat.
For that brief time insulin is up fat release is stopped, but body isn't fooled that bad and as soon as blood sugar drops a bit because you stopped using fat an main energy source and blood sugar was instead, insulin will drop right back down again.
If drinking with food - well your food was going to increase insulin anyway. It's the nature of body preparing for some sugar coming in with sweet taste that can make it release insulin in preparation.
So I'd remove that as factor. Whatever else you research and believe would be more useful.
And be aware of the differences between when product with it is heated and not heated but kept cool. Some research will comment on that difference - but play off the heated info when the product you use might never be in that state, so the effect is immaterial.
yes, this was one thing i read about.....how the insulin can cause fat storage, but also I read that our bodies don't know what to do with the unnatural chemicals, so it stores those chemicals as fat. Have u heard of that before?
Also, can you explain your second paragraph somewhat, im kinda confused. Where u talk about blood sugar dropping? Thanks so much for your help.
That's an... interesting thing you read there. If your body wouldn't know what to do with it, how would it know how to convert it to fat? Fat doesn't just appear out of thin air, your body has to process something to turn it into fat. You know, that whole energy equation thing that this website is all about with calorie counting and whatnot.
Artificial sweeteners are many many times sweeter than sugar and thus only put into drinks in amounts of fractions of a single gram. That's why they're 0 calories, there's just not enough in there to be over the 5 calorie threshold of needing to be labelled. So if you convert 1 calorie of a sweetener into 1 calorie of fat (somehow, despite not knowing what to do with it), you end up with 0.111 repeating grams of fat.
Is that seriously something you need to worry about? Nope.
And all that aside, as you could probably already tell by the tone of my post, that's not even what happens.
Artificial sweeteners do not spike your insulin.
https://examine.com/faq/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
And even if they did, without fat to store it can't do anything. Not even to speak of the fact insulin is an important hormone and nothing to be feared.
Splenda is mostly not metabolizable by the body, which means most of it just passes through you, not get turned to fat. To be able to be turned to fat it would need to be metabolizable.
Thanks, alittle sarcastic, but ur tone made me snicker. But thanks for the info and i'm going to read that link you provided. This is why I posted, so as to get others views, info because frankly there is so much conflicting info out there, all I can do is gather info and make my decision.0 -
bibliocephalus wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Actually, I'm doubly sad bc this is the third time i've tried to type this lol. Anyway, I have done alittle reading on artificial sweeteners, specifically Splenda. There are several bad things it can possibly do to our bodies, but the two I'm upset about is reading that it can spike insulin levels and cause fat storage. I've read that foreign chemicals like sucralose (sp?) can do this. I thought I was doing great by substituting splenda sweetened tea for diet coke. It seems though, that it's all bad. That leaves..............plain ole water
And I don't like lemon/lime in my water either, so I can't even flavor it. Basically, the info i've read is stating that our bodies don't know what to do with foreign chemicals so it stores it.
What are your thoughts on splenda? Have y'all read these things too? And what am I gonna do about my no cal spray butter now? Its foreign chemicals should cause fat storage too? When I use the word, foreign, I'm talking about foreign to our bodies. What butter should I use???
OP, I'd advise you to keep researching, but skip on blogs and websites that try to sell you things and stuff like that. Actual, cold, hard science attests to the safety of artificial sweeteners. The link I linked to above is a good start with many studies listed as sources.
OP here's a couple of other links I encourage you to check out. Try to stick to science based articles if you can. There is so much nutritional misinformation out there. One thing that can help with your searches is to add the word "evidence" when you google topics like this, for example: "Evidence for Safety of Sucralose."
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/artificial-sweeteners/art-20046936?pg=2
http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/artificial-sweeteners-fact-sheet
As with anything, there are pros and cons, of course. Personally, I have weighed the risk/benefit ratio for Splenda/Sucrolose, and have decided that it is safe for me, in moderation. [p.s. I have lost 60 lbs, and drink 1-2 cans of Diet Dr. Pepper, and use 2 packets of Splenda in my morning coffee, per day.]
THANK You!!! I THOUGHT I WAS reading scientific evidence, but after reading thru this thread, it got me to thinking how do I really know WHAT I'm reading is actual scientific evidence. And this might make me sound stupid, but it's the truth. The stuff I've been reading isn't trying to sell me things, but maybe it wasn't scientific evidence. Are there other ways to know if what I'm reading is true scientific that u can think of? I will take your advice on how to google topics and I appreciate your response very much. Thanks
And I will be reading the links u provided. 0 -
Sandytoes71 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Even if the artificials do spike your insulin - if that's all you had was a diet drink - there is nothing to store as fat.
For that brief time insulin is up fat release is stopped, but body isn't fooled that bad and as soon as blood sugar drops a bit because you stopped using fat an main energy source and blood sugar was instead, insulin will drop right back down again.
If drinking with food - well your food was going to increase insulin anyway. It's the nature of body preparing for some sugar coming in with sweet taste that can make it release insulin in preparation.
So I'd remove that as factor. Whatever else you research and believe would be more useful.
And be aware of the differences between when product with it is heated and not heated but kept cool. Some research will comment on that difference - but play off the heated info when the product you use might never be in that state, so the effect is immaterial.
yes, this was one thing i read about.....how the insulin can cause fat storage, but also I read that our bodies don't know what to do with the unnatural chemicals, so it stores those chemicals as fat. Have u heard of that before?
Also, can you explain your second paragraph somewhat, im kinda confused. Where u talk about blood sugar dropping? Thanks so much for your help.
That's an... interesting thing you read there. If your body wouldn't know what to do with it, how would it know how to convert it to fat? Fat doesn't just appear out of thin air, your body has to process something to turn it into fat. You know, that whole energy equation thing that this website is all about with calorie counting and whatnot.
Artificial sweeteners are many many times sweeter than sugar and thus only put into drinks in amounts of fractions of a single gram. That's why they're 0 calories, there's just not enough in there to be over the 5 calorie threshold of needing to be labelled. So if you convert 1 calorie of a sweetener into 1 calorie of fat (somehow, despite not knowing what to do with it), you end up with 0.111 repeating grams of fat.
Is that seriously something you need to worry about? Nope.
And all that aside, as you could probably already tell by the tone of my post, that's not even what happens.
Artificial sweeteners do not spike your insulin.
https://examine.com/faq/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
And even if they did, without fat to store it can't do anything. Not even to speak of the fact insulin is an important hormone and nothing to be feared.
Splenda is mostly not metabolizable by the body, which means most of it just passes through you, not get turned to fat. To be able to be turned to fat it would need to be metabolizable.
Thanks, alittle sarcastic, but ur tone made me snicker. But thanks for the info and i'm going to read that link you provided. This is why I posted, so as to get others views, info because frankly there is so much conflicting info out there, all I can do is gather info and make my decision.
There really isn't much conflicting information out there.
There's reasonable and rational information that uses the latest scientific research and is evidence based.
And then there's the rest.0 -
Google scholar and pubmed are good places, they give you studies. Those are pretty hard to read sometimes though. Personally I would stay away from any and all news websites talking about "study finds X" things, unless they link to the study and you can read through it yourself.
Other good websites are the mayoclinic, sciencebasedmedicine and most official websites like ADA, WHO and so on, basically most .org websites on this kind of stuff. Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Lyle McDonald are very knowledgable people who tend to write in more easily understandable terms, not only about nutrition but also exercise.
Things to look out for is claims like "this is the REAL reason you're not losing fat!" "5 things to boost your metabolism" and so on. Basically, clickbait. That is almost never based on actual facts.0 -
And then there's this one that always makes me smile.
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/0 -
Sandytoes71 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Even if the artificials do spike your insulin - if that's all you had was a diet drink - there is nothing to store as fat.
For that brief time insulin is up fat release is stopped, but body isn't fooled that bad and as soon as blood sugar drops a bit because you stopped using fat an main energy source and blood sugar was instead, insulin will drop right back down again.
If drinking with food - well your food was going to increase insulin anyway. It's the nature of body preparing for some sugar coming in with sweet taste that can make it release insulin in preparation.
So I'd remove that as factor. Whatever else you research and believe would be more useful.
And be aware of the differences between when product with it is heated and not heated but kept cool. Some research will comment on that difference - but play off the heated info when the product you use might never be in that state, so the effect is immaterial.
yes, this was one thing i read about.....how the insulin can cause fat storage, but also I read that our bodies don't know what to do with the unnatural chemicals, so it stores those chemicals as fat. Have u heard of that before?
Also, can you explain your second paragraph somewhat, im kinda confused. Where u talk about blood sugar dropping? Thanks so much for your help.
That's an... interesting thing you read there. If your body wouldn't know what to do with it, how would it know how to convert it to fat? Fat doesn't just appear out of thin air, your body has to process something to turn it into fat. You know, that whole energy equation thing that this website is all about with calorie counting and whatnot.
Artificial sweeteners are many many times sweeter than sugar and thus only put into drinks in amounts of fractions of a single gram. That's why they're 0 calories, there's just not enough in there to be over the 5 calorie threshold of needing to be labelled. So if you convert 1 calorie of a sweetener into 1 calorie of fat (somehow, despite not knowing what to do with it), you end up with 0.111 repeating grams of fat.
Is that seriously something you need to worry about? Nope.
And all that aside, as you could probably already tell by the tone of my post, that's not even what happens.
Artificial sweeteners do not spike your insulin.
https://examine.com/faq/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
And even if they did, without fat to store it can't do anything. Not even to speak of the fact insulin is an important hormone and nothing to be feared.
Splenda is mostly not metabolizable by the body, which means most of it just passes through you, not get turned to fat. To be able to be turned to fat it would need to be metabolizable.
Thanks, alittle sarcastic, but ur tone made me snicker. But thanks for the info and i'm going to read that link you provided. This is why I posted, so as to get others views, info because frankly there is so much conflicting info out there, all I can do is gather info and make my decision.
There really isn't much conflicting information out there.
There's reasonable and rational information that uses the latest scientific research and is evidence based.
And then there's the rest.
Then please tell me how to know the difference when it is not blatantly obvious?? I truly don't want to waste my time on fluff, but maybe I can't tell sometimes when the fluff isn't blatant.0 -
Seconding the LaCroix. Drinking a can of grapefruit flavor right now in fact. I live in Florida and the 'local' water brand is Zephyrhills, they make sparkling water too. The raspberry lime flavor is fantastic.0
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Sandytoes71 wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Even if the artificials do spike your insulin - if that's all you had was a diet drink - there is nothing to store as fat.
For that brief time insulin is up fat release is stopped, but body isn't fooled that bad and as soon as blood sugar drops a bit because you stopped using fat an main energy source and blood sugar was instead, insulin will drop right back down again.
If drinking with food - well your food was going to increase insulin anyway. It's the nature of body preparing for some sugar coming in with sweet taste that can make it release insulin in preparation.
So I'd remove that as factor. Whatever else you research and believe would be more useful.
And be aware of the differences between when product with it is heated and not heated but kept cool. Some research will comment on that difference - but play off the heated info when the product you use might never be in that state, so the effect is immaterial.
yes, this was one thing i read about.....how the insulin can cause fat storage, but also I read that our bodies don't know what to do with the unnatural chemicals, so it stores those chemicals as fat. Have u heard of that before?
Also, can you explain your second paragraph somewhat, im kinda confused. Where u talk about blood sugar dropping? Thanks so much for your help.
That's an... interesting thing you read there. If your body wouldn't know what to do with it, how would it know how to convert it to fat? Fat doesn't just appear out of thin air, your body has to process something to turn it into fat. You know, that whole energy equation thing that this website is all about with calorie counting and whatnot.
Artificial sweeteners are many many times sweeter than sugar and thus only put into drinks in amounts of fractions of a single gram. That's why they're 0 calories, there's just not enough in there to be over the 5 calorie threshold of needing to be labelled. So if you convert 1 calorie of a sweetener into 1 calorie of fat (somehow, despite not knowing what to do with it), you end up with 0.111 repeating grams of fat.
Is that seriously something you need to worry about? Nope.
And all that aside, as you could probably already tell by the tone of my post, that's not even what happens.
Artificial sweeteners do not spike your insulin.
https://examine.com/faq/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
And even if they did, without fat to store it can't do anything. Not even to speak of the fact insulin is an important hormone and nothing to be feared.
Splenda is mostly not metabolizable by the body, which means most of it just passes through you, not get turned to fat. To be able to be turned to fat it would need to be metabolizable.
Thanks, alittle sarcastic, but ur tone made me snicker. But thanks for the info and i'm going to read that link you provided. This is why I posted, so as to get others views, info because frankly there is so much conflicting info out there, all I can do is gather info and make my decision.
There really isn't much conflicting information out there.
There's reasonable and rational information that uses the latest scientific research and is evidence based.
And then there's the rest.
Then please tell me how to know the difference when it is not blatantly obvious?? I truly don't want to waste my time on fluff, but maybe I can't tell sometimes when the fluff isn't blatant.
You have to work your way back to the science. If the article doesn't link to scientific studies, that's a warning sign. If it does, track them down
Read them, or at least the abstracts and conclusions. Learn to recognize flaws in studies (rat studies rarely pan out for humans, small sample sizes, self-reported intake, lack of control groups, etc). Then go back to the article and see if it's reporting the same conclusions that the scientists came to. Look for competing studies and articles that respond to or criticize the first article. Follow the same steps with that article. And so on.0 -
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT! I need to watch what I read (thought I was doing that) to make sure it's credible, but that's hard to know sometimes (or hard for me anyway). And I do know it's about calories in vs calories out, but I just want to watch that I'm not slowing the process down unknowingly. Also, it's not just about losing weight for me, but getting healthier (bad dr. visit). So, I'm just trying to research some things about food. The dr. wants me to have another A1C diabetic test before he tells me i'm in danger of diabetes or already have it, so the insulin thing i read about AS raised bells and of course the (causes fat storage) thing too.
To the people who have been doing this healthy lifestyle change for a long time.......let me just ask that you please have patience with others who aren't so health educated, but who are really trying to be. I know it must be sooooooooo frustrating to you guys, but I hope you don't stop explaining things to others even if you have explained it a million times before.
I read everyone of your posts and will be rereading. Thanks everyone!0 -
Sandytoes71 wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sandytoes71 wrote: »Even if the artificials do spike your insulin - if that's all you had was a diet drink - there is nothing to store as fat.
For that brief time insulin is up fat release is stopped, but body isn't fooled that bad and as soon as blood sugar drops a bit because you stopped using fat an main energy source and blood sugar was instead, insulin will drop right back down again.
If drinking with food - well your food was going to increase insulin anyway. It's the nature of body preparing for some sugar coming in with sweet taste that can make it release insulin in preparation.
So I'd remove that as factor. Whatever else you research and believe would be more useful.
And be aware of the differences between when product with it is heated and not heated but kept cool. Some research will comment on that difference - but play off the heated info when the product you use might never be in that state, so the effect is immaterial.
yes, this was one thing i read about.....how the insulin can cause fat storage, but also I read that our bodies don't know what to do with the unnatural chemicals, so it stores those chemicals as fat. Have u heard of that before?
Also, can you explain your second paragraph somewhat, im kinda confused. Where u talk about blood sugar dropping? Thanks so much for your help.
That's an... interesting thing you read there. If your body wouldn't know what to do with it, how would it know how to convert it to fat? Fat doesn't just appear out of thin air, your body has to process something to turn it into fat. You know, that whole energy equation thing that this website is all about with calorie counting and whatnot.
Artificial sweeteners are many many times sweeter than sugar and thus only put into drinks in amounts of fractions of a single gram. That's why they're 0 calories, there's just not enough in there to be over the 5 calorie threshold of needing to be labelled. So if you convert 1 calorie of a sweetener into 1 calorie of fat (somehow, despite not knowing what to do with it), you end up with 0.111 repeating grams of fat.
Is that seriously something you need to worry about? Nope.
And all that aside, as you could probably already tell by the tone of my post, that's not even what happens.
Artificial sweeteners do not spike your insulin.
https://examine.com/faq/do-artificial-sweeteners-spike-insulin/
And even if they did, without fat to store it can't do anything. Not even to speak of the fact insulin is an important hormone and nothing to be feared.
Splenda is mostly not metabolizable by the body, which means most of it just passes through you, not get turned to fat. To be able to be turned to fat it would need to be metabolizable.
Thanks, alittle sarcastic, but ur tone made me snicker. But thanks for the info and i'm going to read that link you provided. This is why I posted, so as to get others views, info because frankly there is so much conflicting info out there, all I can do is gather info and make my decision.
There really isn't much conflicting information out there.
There's reasonable and rational information that uses the latest scientific research and is evidence based.
And then there's the rest.
Then please tell me how to know the difference when it is not blatantly obvious?? I truly don't want to waste my time on fluff, but maybe I can't tell sometimes when the fluff isn't blatant.
One good way to tell if something is probably false is if it makes you feel afraid to consume something that is very common, has been eaten by millions of people over many years, and is still on the market. If you think that is happening, then question the reliability of the source, and go read some things in the places that stevencloser mentioned. You MAY find that some good evidence has turned up about the food/ingredient. Trans fats in margarine come to mind, and the reversal on the role of dietary cholesterol in raising blood cholesterol. But if there's real evidence you will find it in a scientific source, or even on the USDA website. Fear-mongering is a great way to get clicks and reads, and to sell "alternative" products, but its a poor way to make good decisions.0 -
I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?0
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antennachick wrote: »I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?
So no thin person drinks diet drinks? I didn't know that.0 -
antennachick wrote: »I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?
I know plenty of uber skinny people who drink lots of diet soda
ETA: your brain is smarter than your tongue. It knows it's not sugar.
Your body differentiates between foods based on chemical makeup, not taste.0 -
antennachick wrote: »I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?
I'm not sure if you read this thread. Plenty of people within a normal BMI drink diet drinks. There have been several of them here in this thread.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?
I know plenty of uber skinny people who drink lots of diet soda
ETA: your brain is smarter than your tongue. It knows it's not sugar.
Your body differentiates between foods based on chemical makeup, not taste.
+1, this is what I was about to say:)0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Google scholar and pubmed are good places, they give you studies. Those are pretty hard to read sometimes though. Personally I would stay away from any and all news websites talking about "study finds X" things, unless they link to the study and you can read through it yourself.
Other good websites are the mayoclinic, sciencebasedmedicine and most official websites like ADA, WHO and so on, basically most .org websites on this kind of stuff. Alan Aragon, Layne Norton and Lyle McDonald are very knowledgable people who tend to write in more easily understandable terms, not only about nutrition but also exercise.
Things to look out for is claims like "this is the REAL reason you're not losing fat!" "5 things to boost your metabolism" and so on. Basically, clickbait. That is almost never based on actual facts.
Just to provide easy links: https://scholar.google.com and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
Both are a great way to find the actual scientific research rather than just one writer's possibly misinformed take on it.0 -
I like splenda in my tea, coffee mate in my coffee, real butter, bread with the gluten still in it and so far have lost over 30 pounds and I feel great.
And oh yeah...this...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bkhhCi7nMFI
I also have not regular;y drank or eaten anything "diet" in more years than I can recall...artificial sweeteners didn't make me fat. Eating too much made me fat.0 -
antennachick wrote: »I dont want to sound mean but....i have noticed its always over wieght people that drink diet soda. And then I read those studies and it made sense. Although its calorie free it sends a message to the brain you are eatting sugar. In return you crave sugar...so why not just limit the real thing?
@antennachick, that's confusing correlation with causation. How about looking at it from the perspective that a lot of overweight people drink diet soda because they're trying to cut calories and lose weight?
Using the same rationale, I see a lot of fat people in the gym and out running. Therefore, going to the gym and running must make people fat.0
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