Paleo, anyone?

Also, if you have others in your family that don't wish to follow this eating plan, it can be as simple as cooking up some rice, quinoa or other grains/seeds to add to their meals. It needn't be difficult for the whole family to enjoy healthy food and everyone can satisfy their particular tastes.

Exactly. I choose to eat this way but don't shove it down my family's throat. I do the cooking so the meal will always consist of some type of meat (for myself the rest will be Paleo) and something that my girlfriend and kids want. They like/want potatoes, etc so I'll make them for them.

My children and I are on a paleo style diet. My husband is not. He eats some cheese, the occasional flour tortilla or white potatoes or even refried beans from the can at home. None of these are good for me or my kids, but I don't begrudge him the right to eat them. That being said: I don't allow rolls in the house. He can eat them at lunch or go out to eat with his friends if he wants them. They are too hard for my kids to resist (and one was diagnosed Celiac just a few weeks ago). Since he has changed his dinner habit, he has increased the lean protein and vegetables considerably, decreased overall cheese consumption, and has gone from a 4 piece of bread with dinner guy to a no bread at dinner guy. He's already lost 60 pounds, and he still eats some of whatever he wants during the day at work. His doc is phasing him off of the blood pressure meds that he has been on for 7 years.

Nice ! Paleo isn't for everyone and everyone doesn't need it. Some do it because they are celiac and others, like myself, do it because they don't "do" carbs well. Others might be able to process grains, flours, etc just fine.

Nice to see your husbands results.

Wow this thread has gotten heated...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I'd pull up a chair and grab some popcorn if I were not one of those "extreme paleo freaks that is out hunting squirrels for dinner and chaising down terroists i.e grain, legume and dairy eaters".. ..those two implied statements were a little much . I am new to paleo but I have never ever seen anyone claim that eating grains, legumes and dairy causes someone to be a terrorist! and where do they suggest to eat only wild game? I hear alot of paleo folks eating chicken, beef ,eggs, bacon, ham, fish-all that they got from ..ahem..:huh: the store.. not too many of us are spending our time in the woods hunting and picking berries. but anyway.
. I have celiacs disease and am also lactose intolerant and cannot tolerate grains so paleo makes sense for me.. I've been doing it for a month and have lost nearly 20lbs and feel better than I have in a long long time.. this plan is not for everyone but it works for me and my family.. since celiacs is hereditary the whole family pretty much eats this way.. now we're are not 100% strict with it.. we still potatoes and we love peanut butter. and the family eats dairy and grains just gluten free grains. the thing is, as with any diet or eating plan, you have to find what works for you. period end of story.. do what you feel is right for you and don't worry about what everyone else is doing.:flowerforyou:

Dayzeerock I’m going to pick on you for a second, only as an illustration, and to try and understand where you are coming from.
First thing, you said in no way was you being disrespectful, following is your first post on this thread.

Apparently, the ones who really follow this believe people should only eat 'wild game.' However, I very much doubt they are running after this game and kiling it themselves with handmade stone weapons! Also, why would anyone want to try to replicate the diet from a time period when the average life expectancy was 40 if you were lucky? I wouldn't ever wreak havoc on my kidneys like that diet does...

I found that very disrespectful, for the following reason. I don’t believe anyone can actually believe this, and therefore you were making slight of our lifestyle. There is no way you could have ever read anything about Paleo diet that remotely would lead you to believe this, unless it was from Green Peace or PITA. Then you called it extreme, I know you have tried to back off from that, but you did, in fact when you described the husband, you said extreme, extreme, so no, you (at first) were not talking just about him, you were talking about the diet.

And you said I attacked what I find wrong with you.
I never attacked you at all, being a Vegan is extreme, no two ways about it, I just said I find it funny a Vegan would call any diet extreme, had nothing to do with you really, it was more the fact “a” vegan was calling someone else’s diet extreme.

I will give you this as an olive branch; In today’s world both our diets are seen as extreme.

Well, sorry to break it to you but if those are the only two studies you have read, then yes I'm telling you haven't done any (much) research.

They're not. Just two that I happened to reference.

How would you like to step to the challenge of citing some relevant research? In vivo, clinical trials, humans, macro/micros consistent between paleo and non-paleo groups.

No correlations, no biochemical research and pretending that's relevant to the everyday consumption of grains.

You do understand that poison doesn’t necessarily mean you will die five seconds after eating them,,,,, don’t you? You do understand that not everybody has the same reaction to every poison,,,, don’t you? You do understand that just because you are not showing overt symptoms now, that means you will never have problems in the future,,,,, don’t you? I’m sure we all know, smokers, drunks, overweight people, that live will into their 80’s with no discernable problems, where they not taking poison into their bodies?

1) Are you implying grains/dairy/legumes are poisonous? Provide research to back up the claim, please.
2) How come people like the Okinawans and Sardinians can eat lots of non-paleo foods and still both be in the top 5 populations for longest living humans without disability?
3) If you believe strongly that legumes/grains/dairy are a poison, do you believe parents should be allowed to feed their children those foods? As smoking under 18 is illegal, should we treat grains the same as they are, according to paleo, a serious cause for chronic illness?

You do understand that poison doesn’t necessarily mean you will die five seconds after eating them,,,,, don’t you? You do understand that not everybody has the same reaction to every poison,,,, don’t you? You do understand that just because you are not showing overt symptoms now, that means you will never have problems in the future,,,,, don’t you? I’m sure we all know, smokers, drunks, overweight people, that live will into their 80’s with no discernable problems, where they not taking poison into their bodies?

1) Are you implying grains/dairy/legumes are poisonous? Provide research to back up the claim, please.
2) How come people like the Okinawans and Sardinians can eat lots of non-paleo foods and still both be in the top 5 populations for longest living humans without disability?
3) If you believe strongly that legumes/grains/dairy are a poison, do you believe parents should be allowed to feed their children those foods? As smoking under 18 is illegal, should we treat grains the same as they are, according to paleo, a serious cause for chronic illness?

Not going do it, wouldn’t be prudent.

Grains, spike insulin, look it up yourself, insulin spiking can and will lead to insulin resistance, insulin resistance can a will lead to diabetes. Grains also bind vital nutrients and make them less bio-available, look it up yourself.
Dairy, if I remember is not considered a poison, but something more to take caution with. Many people have lactose intolerance, look it up yourself, for those people Dairy can act as a poison.
Legumes, I will have to get back to you on, I don’t recall the reasoning behind that one, and don’t have the time right now to go back and refresh my memory.
Okinawans and Sardinians, really eats lots of non Paleo foods, like,,,,,,,,,, what? Lots of processed wheat and or other gluten grains?
I don’t believe the government should be raising our children. I do think the government should get out of the way of real nutrition research, and stop promoting big agribusiness at the expense of our health.

Truth is there isn’t a lot real research on strictly “paleo” diets(because it hasn’t been around that long, as a named diet), but there is plenty of research on low carb, and modified low carb, diets which closely mirror Paleo. Take those studies(which overwhelmingly show health benefits) and apply them to Paleo, a diet that follows the same basic framework of the modified low carb, removes most if not all processed foods, and you think that is not going to have beneficial outcomes? There is also plenty of anthropological evidence that humans did not have the same problems (diet related) as we modern humans do, since the advent of agriculture, and especially since the advent of processed agriculture

I understand you are a science geek, and if it’s not in some peer reviewed book it just doesn’t exist in your eyes. And that is fine, but there are many, real, facts, that come from other than peer reviewed papers, and there are many BS “facts” that come from pear reviewed papers.

Well I got to go, heading to the mountains for the weekend, so you will have to carry on without me until Monday.

Not going do it, wouldn’t be prudent.

Grains, spike insulin, look it up yourself, insulin spiking can and will lead to insulin resistance, insulin resistance can a will lead to diabetes.

Horribly misleading and factually incorrect synopsis of insulin. Insulin spikes WILL lead to insulin resistance, eh? Maybe in hypercaloric, sedentary lifestyles. Nothing new there...

Grains also bind vital nutrients and make them less bio-available, look it up yourself.

So you have zero sources for this claim. Furthermore: you have zero sources that explain the significance of this when applied to real life intake of grains. Funny, because all the "studies" on paleo share that in common with you.

Dairy, if I remember is not considered a poison, but something more to take caution with. Many people have lactose intolerance, look it up yourself, for those people Dairy can act as a poison.
Legumes, I will have to get back to you on, I don’t recall the reasoning behind that one, and don’t have the time right now to go back and refresh my memory.

Don't have an intolerance to dairy, so I'm good there. Most people don't have an intolerance, actually.

Excited to hear about legumes, though!

Okinawans and Sardinians, really eats lots of non Paleo foods, like,,,,,,,,,, what? Lots of processed wheat and or other gluten grains?

See below. My counter-part has apparently answered it.

I don’t believe the government should be raising our children. I do think the government should get out of the way of real nutrition research, and stop promoting big agribusiness at the expense of our health.

Avoiding the question. I'm assuming you are okay with laws that restrict anyone under 18 from smoking? Why? Because smoking is deadly and has been found to play a serious role in causing cancer and other chronic illnesses. If you feel that strongly about grains, why not ban grains from children under 18 as well?

Truth is there isn’t a lot real research on strictly “paleo” diets(because it hasn’t been around that long, as a named diet), but there is plenty of research on low carb, and modified low carb, diets which closely mirror Paleo. Take those studies(which overwhelmingly show health benefits) and apply them to Paleo, a diet that follows the same basic framework of the modified low carb, removes most if not all processed foods, and you think that is not going to have beneficial outcomes? There is also plenty of anthropological evidence that humans did not have the same problems (diet related) as we modern humans do, since the advent of agriculture, and especially since the advent of processed agriculture

1) That's very non-scientific to take a low carb diet and assume those results leap to paleo.
2) Low carb =/= paleo.
3) Low carb is not inherently superior to more moderate carb intakes assuming ample protein/fat (from wholesome sources) are in the picture. Along with calories being moderated.
4) Never said paleo isn't beneficial; merely saying it's not THE BEST.
5) That anthropological evidence is correlational, and as such you can't draw cause/effect. That's not science; that's assuming.

I understand you are a science geek, and if it’s not in some peer reviewed book it just doesn’t exist in your eyes. And that is fine, but there are many, real, facts, that come from other than peer reviewed papers, and there are many BS “facts” that come from pear reviewed papers.

I am absolutely a science geek, but I'm not blind to anything that isn't published. There are things I will accept if there is enough reason to believe so based on available data. There is not nearly enough reason to believe paleo is superior, or that grains are detrimental, etc. If it works for you and you like it, cool. But if you think for a second it's better than my diet that does have grains and cheese in it, then you should look at more studies.

Okinawans eat considerable amounts of rice and beans, and the main staple of the Sardinian diet is bread and pasta.

It's like looking in a mirror.

I find doing Low Carb works for me. I try and keep my carbs below 100. It seems to be working for me. I started it about 3-4 weeks ago and have lost 7 pounds sense then. Before that I was just counting calories and exercising and wasn't losing at all.

Do what is easier for you both work for weight loss.

I don't follow the Paleo lifestyle to a T, but what I have found is that when I choose to eat only meats, veggies, and fruits I tend to feel more energetic and lose weight faster. There are things I eat that hardcore Paleos don't eat...such as dairy products (skim milk, fat free Greek yogurt, low fat cheese)...and I certainly don't eat this way all the time.

I follow the nutrition methods in Tom Venuto's Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle book. I am an endomorph with a TDEE of around 2050 calories. I use the tapering calories method and the zigzagging method along with his recommendations for nutrient ratios. I have 3 "low calorie" days where I stick to around 1500 total with about 45% protein, 35% carbs, and 20% fat. Then I do 1 "high calorie" day which is about 1800 calories with ratio 30/50/20. And basically, on my "low calorie" days I am having low to moderate carbs, too, and on those particular days I find myself eating Paleo to lower my carb intake. That doesn't mean that I don't ever have things like bread, potatoes, or pasta and rice, but I have much less of them on "low" days. I get the majority of my carbs on those days from veggies and fruits. I personally don't believe that any restrictive diet is sustainable forever because my body has cravings, temptations, indulgences, etc...don't you? Anyway, I allow myself more carbs and calories every 4 days on my "high" days where I do eat more starches.

Doing this has helped my body to have reduced amount of cravings. I also prevent some of the other ills of consistent low calorie or low carb dieting by giving my metabolism those things every now and then (in healthy doses through healthy foods).

With all that being said, I don't think I could EVER be happy on a strictly Paleo diet for the rest of my life. I don't think any food should be vilified (unless you are talking about trans fats, HFCS, etc). Healthy athletes and bodybuilders enjoy dairy and grains, too. They have just figured out what works for them in so much as they know how their bodies react to it and how much they can allow themselves to have. I think we all need to work on discovering this for ourselves, because no diet is "one size fits all." We all have different food sensitivities, different likes and dislikes, etc. It is quite possible to become super lean and fit eating Paleo...and the same can be said about those who eat 40/30/30 with grains and dairy included. I guess that's why I do a modified Paleo thing for a few days before eating some yummy pasta on day 4. It works for me!

Don't get me wrong... any plan based on clean, natural foods meats and cruciferous veggies and the elimination of starchy carbs is a very good idea... but the weight loss that occurs is due to a reduction in calories, not because of any perceived improvement in your insulin levels. The Paleo diet is an awesome plan for many people, but please...enough with the insulin control nonsense.

I know that my blood sugar issues became nonexistent when I stopped eating the healthy whole wheat in the manner that my registered dietician recommended. My rheumatologist is the person that set me on this path after spending MOST of my life having joint pain, gut problems, breathing/respiratory issues, and problems with insulin resistance.

I can't vouch for anyone else's results. I can only tell you that my results are amazing, and my 11 year old son's results are amazing. It's a healthy lifestyle that has benefited my family tremendously in more ways that just weight loss. We followed an exceptionally healthy diet before with lots of whole grains and hardly any chips or candies---but we all struggled with energy and weight ON TOP of the other health problems.

Tell that to my diabetic husband to tried Weight Watchers and grew sicker and sicker. When he finally joined me on Atkins he started to control his blood glucose. The kinds of carbs do matter. He can eat veggies and most fruits without any spikes but if he eats rice (white or brown!) he has outrageously high BG numbers. He has become a believer. I always was one.

Ingestion of protein causes an insulin response, just not a significant one.

Obviously, an individual exhibiting signs of metabolic syndrome should regulate their carb intake, but that seems to be irrelevant to the discussion, which is whether or not weight loss is related to insulin response (which it isn't).

Don't get me wrong... any plan based on clean, natural foods meats and cruciferous veggies and the elimination of starchy carbs is a very good idea... but the weight loss that occurs is due to a reduction in calories, not because of any perceived improvement in your insulin levels. The Paleo diet is an awesome plan for many people, but please...enough with the insulin control nonsense.

I know that my blood sugar issues became nonexistent when I stopped eating the healthy whole wheat in the manner that my registered dietician recommended. My rheumatologist is the person that set me on this path after spending MOST of my life having joint pain, gut problems, breathing/respiratory issues, and problems with insulin resistance.

I can't vouch for anyone else's results. I can only tell you that my results are amazing, and my 11 year old son's results are amazing. It's a healthy lifestyle that has benefited my family tremendously in more ways that just weight loss. We followed an exceptionally healthy diet before with lots of whole grains and hardly any chips or candies---but we all struggled with energy and weight ON TOP of the other health problems.

Congratulations!! I mean that sincerely!

The average "healthy" Western diet has far too much starchy carbs/grains/etc. When I worked out the macronutrient breakdown of the so-called healthy meals I used to consume, the carb amount was staggeringly high. The amount of carbs in a typical healthy, main-stream, 4-food groups diet plan would not be optimal for the average person who isn't at an ideal weight. Most overweight folks are too carb sensitive to handle that kind of carb intake...and I was certainly too carb sensitive to handle the amount of carbs I was eating. I'm really glad to hear that you and your family have found an eating plan that works!

Honestly speaking, your testimony does not contradict the point I was trying to make. Controlling your blood sugar level IS an important tenet of being fit and living a healthy life. As for insulin, the issue becomes a lot more complicated and it isn't nearly as simplistic as some of the low carb talibans make it out to be.

Grains, spike insulin, look it up yourself, insulin spiking can and will lead to insulin resistance, insulin resistance can a will lead to diabetes. Grains also bind vital nutrients and make them less bio-available, look it up yourself.

Protein spikes insulin too. Does protein also lead to an increased risk for diabetes? :noway:

Dietary plans based on insulinogenic manipulation are woefully outdated. For people who follow research in an unbiased manner, these types of plans were soon deemed nothing more than a fad that had its day and has passed.

That doesn't mean they don't work. They do...but just not for the reasons some people think they do.

Don't get me wrong... any plan based on clean, natural foods meats and cruciferous veggies and the elimination of starchy carbs is a very good idea... but the weight loss that occurs is due to a reduction in calories, not because of any perceived improvement in your insulin levels. The Paleo diet is an awesome plan for many people, but please...enough with the insulin control nonsense.

As for grains, yes, RAW grains slow absorption of nutrients into the bloodstream....but cooked grains do not.

Actually the research shows, those on low card can eat and average of 300 calories more per day and still lose the same amount of weight.

Ingestion of protein causes an insulin response, just not a significant one.

OOps, tell that to TK, he doesn't seem to know that bit of information.

Thanks for the encouragement!!! It DOES make sense, right? Just eating whole, natural foods? No processed junk, no food-like substances....I'm ON IT!!!!

That's how I approach it, and I do not follow it 100%, I just make the best choices I can, and it definitely helps with muscle development and overall good feeling. When I did an 8-week Paleo challenge for my Crossfit program, I lost 3% body fat and a couple of pounds, but I wasn't trying to lose weight just lose body fat. It is an excellent program, but very difficult to maintain forever, especially if you like dairy as much as I do. I can do without the grains for the most part, but I need dairy.