Favorite pre and post workout supplements?
bruhaha007
Posts: 333 Member
I take creatine and nitric oxide prior to my workout and BCAA's/protein powder within 30 minutes after. Curious what others are taking and is producing results for you?
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I take a double espresso 20-30 minutes before a work-out. The whole 30 minute anabolic window thing has been shown to be bro-science (the window is more like 4 hours), but nonetheless because of when I tend to workout, I eat a pretty solid meal (1000 cals) shortly after training.
I take a protein shake before bed, with some creatine (again there is no need to take creatine immediately pre-workout, but no harm in doing so).
What are you using for nitric oxide pre-?0 -
Normally about an hour before workout I'll have a shake made up of oats, bananas, protein, creatine and milk. After workout I'll have another protein shake followed by lunch which is normally rice and chicken in some kind of sauce.0
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Most supplements will provide little to no effect. Creatine only works for a subset of individuals and generally is those who dont' have a diet very high in meat (doesn't work for me). Outside of creatine, caffeine works for some people and provides a boost in workout performance (again, doesn't effect me). Whey/BCAA is only needed if you can't eat enough protein or enough calories. But getting 2.2g/kg of protein / kg of mass is fairly easy during a bulk.0
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I've taken pre workouts in the past but they really are no more effective than strong coffee or a caffine pill that you can buy at the pharmacy for a few bucks so I would save your money there. Currently, if I take anything before a workout it's going to be coffee and a fast carb like gummies or dextrose (corn sugar) mixed into water with some flavour shot like Mio.
Afterwards I'll either eat something like tuna and gummies or have a whey protein shake depending on my mood and how many calories I can still have for the day. Suppliments are a waste of money for the most part and even if they did magically work based on the ingredients there is a lot of spot testing by media that has shown that you never know what you are actually getting. Save your money and eat real food would be my recommendation.0 -
I've tried pre-workouts before (Pre-Jym, C4, etc.), but I didn't feel like they did anything for me. They did make me feel flushed and like my skin was tingling, which is not a feeling I enjoy. Now-a-days, if I need a "pick me up" before my workout, I'll drink a cup of coffee.
I used to take creatine, but I didn't notice much of anything. I may be in the subset of people who get no benefit from it.
Post-workout I eat a meal. I workout after getting off work but before we have dinner in the evening. The only time I use a protein shake/bar is when I need a quick protein boost or I'm on the run and don't want to/have the time to stop for a full meal. I only really use them to tide me over for a little bit longer until I can get a full meal.0 -
I am interested for those reporting no effect from creatine how you have judged this. As I understand its effect, it would be that you may be able to manage a little more work in the gym than without, but I'd be quite surprised if the effect was noticeable. I am currently taking it because I got a freebie bag to review. There is no noticeable super-charged effect, but then I wouldn't expect there to be.0
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^ I think it takes 4-6 weeks of continuous use to get the effects of creatine. I started taking it in late December and have been bulking since then and have only noticed my performance in the gym increase greatly in February. Nothing has changed since January to February in the amount of food intake so I can't really say it's due to more calories or something. And since I've noticed the increase in energy in the gym, I have also upped my volume and intensity and still don't get gassed like I normally would. Plus I don't take in any other supps like pre workout.0
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I am interested for those reporting no effect from creatine how you have judged this. As I understand its effect, it would be that you may be able to manage a little more work in the gym than without, but I'd be quite surprised if the effect was noticeable. I am currently taking it because I got a freebie bag to review. There is no noticeable super-charged effect, but then I wouldn't expect there to be.
A fairly large percentage of people are non-responders so will see no noticible effects from taking creatine. Those who do will generally report small but noticible gains such as an extra rep or two at a particular weight range. Jason Blaha ran the numbers and estimated the true effect at something like .8% per year in extra gains. Not sure how accurate that is but the real effects are pretty small in any event even for those who aren't non-responders.0 -
tephanies1234 wrote: »^ I think it takes 4-6 weeks of continuous use to get the effects of creatine. I started taking it in late December and have been bulking since then and have only noticed my performance in the gym increase greatly in February. Nothing has changed since January to February in the amount of food intake so I can't really say it's due to more calories or something. And since I've noticed the increase in energy in the gym, I have also upped my volume and intensity and still don't get gassed like I normally would. Plus I don't take in any other supps like pre workout.
This sounds more like an effect of your bulking diet, the differences can be amazing since you'll have a lot more glycogen just by eating over maintenance. Creatine shouldn't make you feel more energetic as it is a precursor to phosphocreatine which is readily converted to ATP as required but it's only a very short-term energy source for anerobic activity. I don't think you will notice a big energy difference overall just from the creatine, but the glycogen will make that difference. Bulking is fun!
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preworkout - cellucor c4 or cobra lab's the curse. poptarts if i'm bulking.
post - food! or whey protein. bcaa's if i have them.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A fairly large percentage of people are non-responders so will see no noticible effects from taking creatine. Those who do will generally report small but noticible gains such as an extra rep or two at a particular weight range.
And I guess there is no real way to separate any small gains from a general training effect (since I am very happily still gaining in my lifts). So, once I'm through this bag I suppose I will stop, run through my next four week training mesocycle and then compare my training diary and try and work out if there is any obvious difference on and off.0 -
A lot of great feedback on this post, thanks to all of you for sharing! I am a big fan of research studies so where feasible post links to those studies as they help support a position. Of course studies can be biased depending on who is conducting them and how they choose to present the data. Regardless, a lot of great points on this topic as supplements in general are controversial. I do believe in nutrient based timing and taking some supplements but it is much more important to get your macro nutrients in the right portions to meet your goals.0
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I take a double espresso 20-30 minutes before a work-out. The whole 30 minute anabolic window thing has been shown to be bro-science (the window is more like 4 hours), but nonetheless because of when I tend to workout, I eat a pretty solid meal (1000 cals) shortly after training.
I take a protein shake before bed, with some creatine (again there is no need to take creatine immediately pre-workout, but no harm in doing so).
What are you using for nitric oxide pre-?
It is a beet juice based extract with other vegetables mixed in such as red spinach. Feel free to message me or add me.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/14/448314966/why-you-might-want-to-be-drinking-beet-juice-at-the-gym0 -
bruhaha007 wrote: »I take a double espresso 20-30 minutes before a work-out. The whole 30 minute anabolic window thing has been shown to be bro-science (the window is more like 4 hours), but nonetheless because of when I tend to workout, I eat a pretty solid meal (1000 cals) shortly after training.
I take a protein shake before bed, with some creatine (again there is no need to take creatine immediately pre-workout, but no harm in doing so).
What are you using for nitric oxide pre-?
It is a beet juice based extract with other vegetables mixed in such as red spinach. Feel free to message me or add me.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/14/448314966/why-you-might-want-to-be-drinking-beet-juice-at-the-gym
Interesting, but they were heart patients with a small and specific increase in muscle performance it's hard to say how generalizable it is. Not sure if it's worth it for people who don't like it but if you like beat juice it's certainly a good idea!
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examine.com should be your headquarters for all things supplementation. One thing to keep in mind, there are so many other things that need to be in place and down (calories, macronutrients, training, timing) before supplementation will really provide that extra edge.0
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examine.com should be your headquarters for all things supplementation. One thing to keep in mind, there are so many other things that need to be in place and down (calories, macronutrients, training, timing) before supplementation will really provide that extra edge.
Thanks for the additional resource, I agree that supplementation is simply that, a little extra edge but the other factors should be the primary focus.0 -
bruhaha007 wrote: »A lot of great feedback on this post, thanks to all of you for sharing! I am a big fan of research studies so where feasible post links to those studies as they help support a position. Of course studies can be biased depending on who is conducting them and how they choose to present the data. Regardless, a lot of great points on this topic as supplements in general are controversial. I do believe in nutrient based timing and taking some supplements but it is much more important to get your macro nutrients in the right portions to meet your goals.
Glad someone is! Supplements labeling is controlled by FDA, but supplements aren't very well regulated otherwise and very few have good science backing them. Don't get me wrong-I love my BCAAs and STW pump formula, but you have to be a skeptical consumer.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »tephanies1234 wrote: »^ I think it takes 4-6 weeks of continuous use to get the effects of creatine. I started taking it in late December and have been bulking since then and have only noticed my performance in the gym increase greatly in February. Nothing has changed since January to February in the amount of food intake so I can't really say it's due to more calories or something. And since I've noticed the increase in energy in the gym, I have also upped my volume and intensity and still don't get gassed like I normally would. Plus I don't take in any other supps like pre workout.
This sounds more like an effect of your bulking diet, the differences can be amazing since you'll have a lot more glycogen just by eating over maintenance. Creatine shouldn't make you feel more energetic as it is a precursor to phosphocreatine which is readily converted to ATP as required but it's only a very short-term energy source for anerobic activity. I don't think you will notice a big energy difference overall just from the creatine, but the glycogen will make that difference. Bulking is fun!
You sure? I didn't change my macros in February at all. I'm at the same level of surplus since the beginning of January and increased my workout volume again in February. Wouldn't that mean I would've had to up my surplus in February to keep up with the intensity change now? ....Which I did not do. Wouldn't my glycogen already be full since coming off my "diet" end of November? Please explain more.0 -
tephanies1234 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »tephanies1234 wrote: »^ I think it takes 4-6 weeks of continuous use to get the effects of creatine. I started taking it in late December and have been bulking since then and have only noticed my performance in the gym increase greatly in February. Nothing has changed since January to February in the amount of food intake so I can't really say it's due to more calories or something. And since I've noticed the increase in energy in the gym, I have also upped my volume and intensity and still don't get gassed like I normally would. Plus I don't take in any other supps like pre workout.
This sounds more like an effect of your bulking diet, the differences can be amazing since you'll have a lot more glycogen just by eating over maintenance. Creatine shouldn't make you feel more energetic as it is a precursor to phosphocreatine which is readily converted to ATP as required but it's only a very short-term energy source for anerobic activity. I don't think you will notice a big energy difference overall just from the creatine, but the glycogen will make that difference. Bulking is fun!
You sure? I didn't change my macros in February at all. I'm at the same level of surplus since the beginning of January and increased my workout volume again in February. Wouldn't that mean I would've had to up my surplus in February to keep up with the intensity change now? ....Which I did not do. Wouldn't my glycogen already be full since coming off my "diet" end of November? Please explain more.
It's hard really to put a finger on energy levels because there are so many factors both physically and psychologically but creatine isn't likely to be a difference maker or, at least, not substantially. There are many things that happen when you start moving out of a deficit and into a surplus and that includes changes in hormones and in mitochondria that will make you feel more energetic. Plus, you tend to feel better when you are eating better as well. I suspect that you are both adapting to your routine and experiencing changes in hormones due to diet rather than the creatine. You might want to try removing creatine from your diet and see what happens, it certianly can't hurt to try if you are curious.
I've also looked a little more into the literature and there seems to be some minor reistance to fatigue found in many studies but this isn't the same as increase in energy levels. Whatever it is that's causing it for you just keep doing what you are doing and enjoy it, just realize it's probably not the creatine.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A fairly large percentage of people are non-responders so will see no noticible effects from taking creatine. Those who do will generally report small but noticible gains such as an extra rep or two at a particular weight range.
And I guess there is no real way to separate any small gains from a general training effect (since I am very happily still gaining in my lifts). So, once I'm through this bag I suppose I will stop, run through my next four week training mesocycle and then compare my training diary and try and work out if there is any obvious difference on and off.
I notice substantial changes from creatine, based on tracking my workouts very carefully. Mostly it's just the ability to do more work, so (as someone else mentioned) I can do 8-10 reps where I had been struggling with 6-8. This is true across my lifts, so the amount of volume being added is fairly substantial.
I also gain about 3-5 pounds of water weight when I'm on it, unrelated to fat/muscle gain.
It takes about 2 weeks to see the improvements, and they plateau pretty much immediately. They also go away within a week of stopping the creatine, but more volume is more volume. The weight gain also disappears in about a week.
Creatine is one of the most studied supplements, mainly because it's generally harmless. But as someone above mentioned, there are people who gain nothing from it. More info ...
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Thanks @DustinSuiter - I am following a very similar nutrient timing myself.0
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bruhaha007 wrote: »Thanks @DustinSuiter - I am following a very similar nutrient timing myself.
There really isn't a need for nutrient timing unless it's fast acting carbs for very hard and extended workouts. The evidence just doesn't show much if any real benefit, but a lot of people will do it for the psychological benefits, and the supplement industry, with a few notable exceptions, is pretty much one big placebo effect in the first place.
A great source for this would be Alan Aragon's blog http://www.alanaragon.com/articles.0 -
Perhaps you are right @Wheelhouse15 and you have had great results and have done a lot of homework. I do notice a big impact on my workouts personally taking them and perhaps it could be placebo effect but whatever the case, it is working.
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bruhaha007 wrote: »Perhaps you are right @Wheelhouse15 and you have had great results and have done a lot of homework. I do notice a big impact on my workouts personally taking them and perhaps it could be placebo effect but whatever the case, it is working.
I won't argue with results even if they are placebo! 0 -
DustinSuiter wrote: »You have literally just beat your body into submission and have literally torn your muscles to create larger regrowth.
I hope you haven't literally torn your muscles. Got to say I prefer to try and create a stimulus for growth. But then maybe it depends on your goals.
I'm train powerlifting now and have got to say, I don't feel the need to take nutrition during my workout, but then I'm very well fed anyway. When I used to run ultra-marathons, I would need a few gummy bears to get me through.0 -
DustinSuiter wrote: »There has been some recent studies that really put into play the actual nutrient timing of supplements for pre, during and post workouts. Surprisingly there are a ton of stuff out there but most of them may not play well with each other either. So much of it is the quality of supps. that leads to a higher absorption rate (what I am using happens to be 98%). The cheaper and lower quality it is, the lower the absorption rate. This basically means that you are creating a very expensive urine, lol. Pre workout supps are a great option to open up your blood flow, create better breathing capacity which will help with endurance and gain some extra energy to get through and boost your workouts. A great electrolyte and hydration drink during your workout is a major bonus too as it will keep fueling your muscles through it. Once the glycogen stores are exhausted your body will then start pulling fuel from your muscles. This is where you will see people plateau or take a step backwards in performance. The post workout is probably the most important portion to this all. You have literally just beat your body into submission and have literally torn your muscles to create larger regrowth. If you do not replace everything plus more from what you have just depleted in your body, it will then start to diminish itself. Timing may play more of a part in it then most people think. If you are taking most of the general population and looking at their workouts, they may not be as strenuous as an elite level athlete. An elite level athlete will certainly see the benefits of nutrient timing more so then the average joe. Now if you take the average joe, pump up their workout more then the average gym wanderer and introduce this great supplementation and nutrient timing, they will see huge gains and benefits. Our bodies are one big system, so to think that one supplement will create a massive harmony is false thinking. Our bodies need to be addressed in a systematic manner.
My routine:
Starts first thing in the morning by drinking minerals that deal with the cortisol levels (stresses) by use of adaptogens. Not only emotional but physical so this is huge for recovery and soreness.
Pre workout - A natural energy booster shot (no artificial stimulants at all as its yerba mate and green tea based). Then a single drink blend of creatine (improves your performance and reduces fatigue), nitrosigine and citrulline (which support blood flow and maximize delivery of nutrients and oxygen to the working muscles).
During workout - A hydration sports drink that has 100% RDA of Vitamin C plus a full B-Complex
Glycogen blend of fast-absorbing carbs for performance. Also no artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners.
Post workout - A supplement with branched-chain amino acids to help your muscles rebuild
after exercise. I also mix this in with an undenatured whey protein (this is very different from a costco or GNC type) to boost my recovery process. At times I'll also use the minerals again for reduction of soreness and muscle stress.
Now if you really want to turn it up, throw in a pre-workout shot to support nitric oxide production to help your muscles train harder and longer. Then during your work out if needing an immediate pick me up you can use a fuel pack that has a quick carb, sugar, BCAA load. The best thing about all the supps. I use is that they are completely all natural that way the body can break them down to absorb and utilize so they are not stored as fats or gone to waste.
You do realize how much glycogen one can store and further understand that generally the only people who go through their capacity are marathon runners and cyclist, or pro athletes?
Also, supplement price has NO indication of supplement quality (e.g. Shakeology). And since industry is so highly unregulated it's very difficult to determine which is the best quality as there aren't too many studies done on company's quality (unless the brand has been certified by the USP or another organization that is similar).1 -
Supliments are for those who can't possibly eat enough food IMHO. They are marketed to make money. The majority of lifters do not need it. I have no problem eating my cals and hitting my macros, so why waste money? Whole foods are probably better in most cases, but that's another discussion.
I have a large cup of coffee preworkout. It's all one really needs and it's cheaper. I just don't find the need walking around shaking a cup to show people I am serious about lifting.
Post, I eat what I crave at the time. Usually it's tuna or chicken with a large bowl of ice cream.
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Supliments are for those who can't possibly eat enough food IMHO. They are marketed to make money. The majority of lifters do not need it. I have no problem eating my cals and hitting my macros, so why waste money? Whole foods are probably better in most cases, but that's another discussion.
I have a large cup of coffee preworkout. It's all one really needs and it's cheaper. I just don't find the need walking around shaking a cup to show people I am serious about lifting.
Post, I eat what I crave at the time. Usually it's tuna or chicken with a large bowl of ice cream.
This is my philosophy as well.
An occasional smoothie with some whey protein powder (maybe 2-3x a week) on days I'm short on my protein macro is as close to 'supplementing' as I get.0 -
Great transformation @juggernaut1974 I probably fall in the camp of people that due to busy work schedule don't have time to prepare enough quality meals so meal replacement shakes with a few supplements make it so much simpler for me. I think people can be successful either way and appreciate your opinion and @Chiefirg
I did ask for any and all opinions 0 -
Pre kaged or OutLift for my pre, Alpha amino for intra, and modern creatine/Whey isolate post workout. I see a difference in work capacity and fatigue if I miss either my pre or intra workout supp. The Alpha Amino helps to decrease next day soreness quite a bit as there's 2g of taurine per serving.
I'm sure some people would deem some of those supplements unnecessary but they work for me.0
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