How can we give more effective advice on the forums?

diannethegeek wrote: »

I'd like to see if we can brainstorm some ways to get advice across more effectively.

I think this is a great thread and really commendable and I really hope it'll result in some great ideas.

I don't mean to come across as negative when I say this but I think for some people through, even the most accurate, most effective and most kindly delivered advice will fall onto deaf ears because it simply isn't what they wanted to hear. I truly believe that many OPs don't return to their own threads because whatever quick fix they were looking for was not condoned, or they did not get reassured that they are the special snowflake they thought they were.

But in that case hopefully some lurkers can still benefit from the effective advice given.

CollieFit wrote: »

diannethegeek wrote: »

I'd like to see if we can brainstorm some ways to get advice across more effectively.

I think this is a great thread and really commendable and I really hope it'll result in some great ideas.

I don't mean to come across as negative when I say this but I think for some people through, even the most accurate, most effective and most kindly delivered advice will fall onto deaf ears because it simply isn't what they wanted to hear. I truly believe that many OPs don't return to their own threads because whatever quick fix they were looking for was not condoned, or they did not get reassured that they are the special snowflake they thought they were.

But in that case hopefully some lurkers can still benefit from the effective advice given.

There is a lot of truth in this. There is so much misinformation out there, that I can certainly understand why people come here confused. Add onto that the fact that so many people tie their self-esteem and self-worth in with their weight, that is becomes a hotbed of people looking for a quick fix. The sad part is that, for me, until I started dealing with the underlying issues, the weight wasn't budging, and when it did, I still didn't feel better about who I am. I think that each person coming here may have their own vulnerabilities and several are hyperreactive because of this. I try (although not always successfully) to remind myself of how overwhelmed I felt when I first started.

I did lurk here a lot when I first started. I learned a lot through people who continued to post and support those who were struggling. To be honest, I have often wondered why they continue to post, when so many people slam them for being unsupportive when they are proposing unhealthy and sometimes harmful methods. To be honest, the blunt posters probably were more helpful for me, in that I personally react better to a direct approach. It's easier, for me, to understand the directness from people who don't mince words.

In reviewing these it may seems that I'm speaking two different sides. I guess what I'm saying is that blunt works for me, but I can understand how it wouldn't work for others. I'm not saying I'm less vulnerable to it, but I personally take on direct honesty easier than someone handling me with kitten gloves. To me, the kitten gloves seem condescending. Additionally, I have always made it a policy to not ask questions I wasn't sure I wanted the answer to. So before posing a question, I ponder the potential answers and ask myself if I am ready to accept whatever answer I receive. This applies more to real life than on line though.

snickerscharlie wrote: »

For noobs starting threads, it would be helpful if they got a popup asking if they had tried using the Search feature first.

I can dream, can't I?

Or the least a check list

I've run a number of writing workshops online- Here's my thought.
Weight loss, like creativity and art, is something highly personal. People are sensitive, afraid, even terrified, of asking questions and putting themselves out there. I think the number one answer to getting people to return to threads and participate in their discussion is very simple; it's a little tiny something called 'kindness'. Kindness goes a very long way towards building goodwill and keeping people participating.

I know it's easy to get sick of the same questions over and over again (In fact, just yesterday I posted a thread that about ten minutes later someone else posted the exact same question, with an identical header! I tried to participate fully in the new thread as well, and let that poster know they weren't alone, and I am very grateful for the people who responded in my thread.) and sometimes it's easy to forget that once upon a time, we asked the same kinds of questions. Instead of pat answers and a bunch of links, and the same infograph twenty times in the same thread, maybe we should try the same techniques I use in my writing groups?

Say something positive BEFORE saying something negative. If someone comes to my group with a piece of writing that has something severely wrong with it, before addressing it, I try to point out what they've done really well (even if it's a struggle from time to time). If someone asks if it's okay to eat under 1200 calories, maybe we could try saying "Hey! Great to see you here! It sounds like you really want to make changes! But even if you're really eager to lose weight, going under 1200 could cause some serious problems with malnutrition"... etc. Look for the positive thing to say, the supportive thing to say, and then suggest that a 'cleanse diet' is a pretty bad idea, or that weighing and measuring your food properly is the only way to make sure of the calories you're eating, etc, but look for the kindness first. Instead of leaping in and telling them every detail of everything they do wrong, tell them what you see that they do right, even if it's just coming here and trying to learn.

Kindness isn't hard, but it's in very short supply.

ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »

I've run a number of writing workshops online- Here's my thought.
Weight loss, like creativity and art, is something highly personal. People are sensitive, afraid, even terrified, of asking questions and putting themselves out there. I think the number one answer to getting people to return to threads and participate in their discussion is very simple; it's a little tiny something called 'kindness'. Kindness goes a very long way towards building goodwill and keeping people participating.

I know it's easy to get sick of the same questions over and over again (In fact, just yesterday I posted a thread that about ten minutes later someone else posted the exact same question, with an identical header! I tried to participate fully in the new thread as well, and let that poster know they weren't alone, and I am very grateful for the people who responded in my thread.) and sometimes it's easy to forget that once upon a time, we asked the same kinds of questions. Instead of pat answers and a bunch of links, and the same infograph twenty times in the same thread, maybe we should try the same techniques I use in my writing groups?

Say something positive BEFORE saying something negative. If someone comes to my group with a piece of writing that has something severely wrong with it, before addressing it, I try to point out what they've done really well (even if it's a struggle from time to time). If someone asks if it's okay to eat under 1200 calories, maybe we could try saying "Hey! Great to see you here! It sounds like you really want to make changes! But even if you're really eager to lose weight, going under 1200 could cause some serious problems with malnutrition"... etc. Look for the positive thing to say, the supportive thing to say, and then suggest that a 'cleanse diet' is a pretty bad idea, or that weighing and measuring your food properly is the only way to make sure of the calories you're eating, etc, but look for the kindness first. Instead of leaping in and telling them every detail of everything they do wrong, tell them what you see that they do right, even if it's just coming here and trying to learn.

Kindness isn't hard, but it's in very short supply.

Yep. While everyone is at a different place on their journey, with different knowledge, beliefs, mindset, everyone is looking for guidance and support. Kindness goes a long way when trying to take in new information.

diannethegeek wrote: »

ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »

I've run a number of writing workshops online- Here's my thought.
Weight loss, like creativity and art, is something highly personal. People are sensitive, afraid, even terrified, of asking questions and putting themselves out there. I think the number one answer to getting people to return to threads and participate in their discussion is very simple; it's a little tiny something called 'kindness'. Kindness goes a very long way towards building goodwill and keeping people participating.

I know it's easy to get sick of the same questions over and over again (In fact, just yesterday I posted a thread that about ten minutes later someone else posted the exact same question, with an identical header! I tried to participate fully in the new thread as well, and let that poster know they weren't alone, and I am very grateful for the people who responded in my thread.) and sometimes it's easy to forget that once upon a time, we asked the same kinds of questions. Instead of pat answers and a bunch of links, and the same infograph twenty times in the same thread, maybe we should try the same techniques I use in my writing groups?

Say something positive BEFORE saying something negative. If someone comes to my group with a piece of writing that has something severely wrong with it, before addressing it, I try to point out what they've done really well (even if it's a struggle from time to time). If someone asks if it's okay to eat under 1200 calories, maybe we could try saying "Hey! Great to see you here! It sounds like you really want to make changes! But even if you're really eager to lose weight, going under 1200 could cause some serious problems with malnutrition"... etc. Look for the positive thing to say, the supportive thing to say, and then suggest that a 'cleanse diet' is a pretty bad idea, or that weighing and measuring your food properly is the only way to make sure of the calories you're eating, etc, but look for the kindness first. Instead of leaping in and telling them every detail of everything they do wrong, tell them what you see that they do right, even if it's just coming here and trying to learn.

Kindness isn't hard, but it's in very short supply.

See, I find this very interesting. Because I copy and paste my "pat answers" in order to be kind. It keeps my frustration from leaking through after 5-10 plateau threads a day while still imparting good information. I can flat out tell you that by the end of the day I do not have the energy to engage with the poster more personally. And in my experience, many threads get ignored or passed by, so I would rather give them a "pat answer" than see them get nothing.

It drives me nuts to be told that's not kind. Like, you should see my face right now. It makes me want to throw up my hands and give up here. If the energy that I do give isn't enough, I cannot do more.

I think links are great- why knock yourself out offering the same answer to 10 different threads if someone else has covered it thoroughly, and possibly better? Are people discouraged by links? Does it make them feel like their question is being brushed off?

Diane The Geek - I have never read a post from you that is demeaning to the OP, and that is also true for many of the posters here that I recognize from other threads. You guys give good and thoughtful information and maybe you have some badly bitten tongues out there as a side effect.

But many responses on threads are belittling and it sometimes seems as if it's done on purpose, for the entertainment of the taunter and his/her audience. Then the posters banter back and forth with insults and jokes about the OP. And it can look and feel a lot like bullying, which is not okay no matter how wrong the OP may be in their approach to weight loss. Maybe it's my Canadian showing through, but manners matter to me.

And I wish we had an "agree/disagree button" so piling on is reduced.

diannethegeek wrote: »

ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »

I've run a number of writing workshops online- Here's my thought.
Weight loss, like creativity and art, is something highly personal. People are sensitive, afraid, even terrified, of asking questions and putting themselves out there. I think the number one answer to getting people to return to threads and participate in their discussion is very simple; it's a little tiny something called 'kindness'. Kindness goes a very long way towards building goodwill and keeping people participating.

I know it's easy to get sick of the same questions over and over again (In fact, just yesterday I posted a thread that about ten minutes later someone else posted the exact same question, with an identical header! I tried to participate fully in the new thread as well, and let that poster know they weren't alone, and I am very grateful for the people who responded in my thread.) and sometimes it's easy to forget that once upon a time, we asked the same kinds of questions. Instead of pat answers and a bunch of links, and the same infograph twenty times in the same thread, maybe we should try the same techniques I use in my writing groups?

Say something positive BEFORE saying something negative. If someone comes to my group with a piece of writing that has something severely wrong with it, before addressing it, I try to point out what they've done really well (even if it's a struggle from time to time). If someone asks if it's okay to eat under 1200 calories, maybe we could try saying "Hey! Great to see you here! It sounds like you really want to make changes! But even if you're really eager to lose weight, going under 1200 could cause some serious problems with malnutrition"... etc. Look for the positive thing to say, the supportive thing to say, and then suggest that a 'cleanse diet' is a pretty bad idea, or that weighing and measuring your food properly is the only way to make sure of the calories you're eating, etc, but look for the kindness first. Instead of leaping in and telling them every detail of everything they do wrong, tell them what you see that they do right, even if it's just coming here and trying to learn.

Kindness isn't hard, but it's in very short supply.

See, I find this very interesting. Because I copy and paste my "pat answers" in order to be kind. It keeps my frustration from leaking through after 5-10 plateau threads a day while still imparting good information. I can flat out tell you that by the end of the day I do not have the energy to engage with the poster more personally. And in my experience, many threads get ignored or passed by, so I would rather give them a "pat answer" than see them get nothing.

It drives me nuts to be told that's not kind. Like, you should see my face right now. It makes me want to throw up my hands and give up here. If the energy that I do give isn't enough, I cannot do more.

No one can ever say you don't do enough Diane--don't let a stray comment put you off. I remember when I first started the "beginners" threads (the so called stickies) were always posted, one at a time at the top of the column. "Sexy Pants" to name a favorite. As things stand now the newbs have to do a search and they don't know, or won't, so they just ask--frequently one after another. This gets tiring to answer everyone, and repeat, and repeat,...... You are very kind to bring those important threads up. You are just doing what used to be done. Anyone who wants to can give a personal answer, but with all the new people signing up, and the pool of veterans shrinking, and not posting for reasons we all know---well, it's like trying to hold back a tidal wave--alone.

snowflake954 wrote: »

diannethegeek wrote: »

ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »

I've run a number of writing workshops online- Here's my thought.
Weight loss, like creativity and art, is something highly personal. People are sensitive, afraid, even terrified, of asking questions and putting themselves out there. I think the number one answer to getting people to return to threads and participate in their discussion is very simple; it's a little tiny something called 'kindness'. Kindness goes a very long way towards building goodwill and keeping people participating.

I know it's easy to get sick of the same questions over and over again (In fact, just yesterday I posted a thread that about ten minutes later someone else posted the exact same question, with an identical header! I tried to participate fully in the new thread as well, and let that poster know they weren't alone, and I am very grateful for the people who responded in my thread.) and sometimes it's easy to forget that once upon a time, we asked the same kinds of questions. Instead of pat answers and a bunch of links, and the same infograph twenty times in the same thread, maybe we should try the same techniques I use in my writing groups?

Say something positive BEFORE saying something negative. If someone comes to my group with a piece of writing that has something severely wrong with it, before addressing it, I try to point out what they've done really well (even if it's a struggle from time to time). If someone asks if it's okay to eat under 1200 calories, maybe we could try saying "Hey! Great to see you here! It sounds like you really want to make changes! But even if you're really eager to lose weight, going under 1200 could cause some serious problems with malnutrition"... etc. Look for the positive thing to say, the supportive thing to say, and then suggest that a 'cleanse diet' is a pretty bad idea, or that weighing and measuring your food properly is the only way to make sure of the calories you're eating, etc, but look for the kindness first. Instead of leaping in and telling them every detail of everything they do wrong, tell them what you see that they do right, even if it's just coming here and trying to learn.

Kindness isn't hard, but it's in very short supply.

See, I find this very interesting. Because I copy and paste my "pat answers" in order to be kind. It keeps my frustration from leaking through after 5-10 plateau threads a day while still imparting good information. I can flat out tell you that by the end of the day I do not have the energy to engage with the poster more personally. And in my experience, many threads get ignored or passed by, so I would rather give them a "pat answer" than see them get nothing.

It drives me nuts to be told that's not kind. Like, you should see my face right now. It makes me want to throw up my hands and give up here. If the energy that I do give isn't enough, I cannot do more.

No one can ever say you don't do enough Diane--don't let a stray comment put you off. I remember when I first started the "beginners" threads (the so called stickies) were always posted, one at a time at the top of the column. "Sexy Pants" to name a favorite. As things stand now the newbs have to do a search and they don't know, or won't, so they just ask--frequently one after another. This gets tiring to answer everyone, and repeat, and repeat,...... You are very kind to bring those important threads up. You are just doing what used to be done. Anyone who wants to can give a personal answer, but with all the new people signing up, and the pool of veterans shrinking, and not posting for reasons we all know---well, it's like trying to hold back a tidal wave--alone.

ITA! It's all well and good to say "pat answers" aren't the best approach, but everyone here is volunteering their time and this information. Better to have someone politely posting "pat answers" that are CORRECT, than having a newbie post a question and get 5 answers of magic and woo, and no one to correct them because the veterans are tired of typing the same thing with personalized flourishes over and over and over again.

Maybe it's a personality thing, but no matter how nervous, I can't understand a grown adult needing a stranger on the internet to say: Hello lovely newbie, it's so wonderful that you are here and trying, before explaining that what they are doing might not be right. If it was me, I would see that as patronizing and insulting, not "kind". So different strokes, I guess.

Having said that, there is a difference between copy & pasted answers, and the ones that go - Detoxes are stupid, try using the search function - which I agree are counterproductive. It just makes the OP defensive and usually accelerates to a closed thread.

Once upon a time, I was a clueless newbie, and those pat answers (including Dianne's) are the reason I used MFP correctly, lost the weight, and am keeping it off.