Runners: how do you balance high mileage and hunger and weight loss?
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Let me see if I have this right; you don't eat your exercise calories back, but you run 30-40 miles a week, and you only eat 1670 calories a day?
If that is all correct then you are likely eating more then you think you are. When I run 40 miles in a week I can still lose eating 2300 a day.
Do you log EVERYTHING, even the gun you chew, do you log it all?0 -
I don't weigh prepackaged stuff! Maybe that's it. I eat lots of pre packaged stuff like Lenny and Larry cookies. I do measure my peanut butter, creamer, honey, milk, orange juice, cereal. But I use measuring cups not a scale. I use the scale for chicken breasts or sweet potatoes. I can't get around the idea that I'm stuck at this weight! With all the running?? And having worst case a deficit of at least 1750 a week with miscalculations? Jesus I hope it's water weight. I DO feel bloated and have this past week or two. But idk I think in order to cut the last ten pounds I may have to decrease mileage so I won't be starving. There's no way around it.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »
A deficit from the calories burned running. I think I should be losing weight at a much faster pace. Just not sure how to not be so god damn ravenous all the time.janejellyroll wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »
I have a deficit of nearly 4K a week from running.peaceout_aly wrote: »To lose you have to have a deficit, so eating at or above maintenance would be the reason you aren't losing..
I'm confused then because your OP says you are eating at maintenance.
If you're in a deficit, you should be losing weight.
Do you know what your actual deficit is? Not what you're burning total from running, but the difference between what you're consuming total and what you're burning total?
That is what determines how quickly you will lose and whether or not you're actually "eating at maintenance" or are in a deficit.
Well for the past 3 weeks I've been averaging an intake of about 1670-1700. Which is maintenance for me according to Scooby. For someone who does light cardio 3x a week. Then I run 35-40 miles and even then, I recalculate what MFP says. It says I burn 100 calories per mile but I take it down to 90. But idk. Maybe I'm underestimating calories because I'm so ravenous all the time and I get careless? But even then, even if I was off by 2000, half a pound should come off lol. But I'm guessing it may be water weight. I just increased mileage a month ago from 25-30 miles to 35/40.
So you're counting the 35-40 miles as your light cardio 3 times a week? Or you're doing light cardio 3 times a week and then the runs on top of that and eating back 90 calories per mile run? And you haven't lost anything for three weeks?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to get an understanding of what your actual calculations are.
Lol yes sorry. I'm underestimating so I placed myself under light cardio 3x a week which equals 35-40 miles. Then I recalculate what MFP gives me down to 90 cals per mile instead of 100.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you generated your calorie goal based on your TDEE (which is what Scooby gives you) and are then "double-dipping" when you log your exercise calories. You only want to count the activity once. If you are including it in your initial goal and then having MFP give you more, then you're double-dipping.
MFP's method is based on taking your non-exercise activity level and then adding exercise calories back to that. You can choose that method or the TDEE method, but mixing them can cause problems. You will probably want to choose one or the other.
Okay so here is what I do:
According to Scooby, my TDEE is 1670 at light cardio 3x a week.
I manually input this into MFP. So MFP is set at 1670 maintenance for me.
On average, that is what I eat. 1670. Sometimes a little more, 100 calories or so, for the past 3 weeks, since I've upped mileage. I do not eat exercise calories back. I don't even pay attention to that part of MFP. MFP is purely for logging purposes so i can keep track of what Ive eaten and not have to remember in my head. I find it useful to log my calories and to keep track of what I've burned. Thats it.
Now, if Im supposed to maintain at 1670, with light cardio 3x a week, and I end up burning nearly 4k a week, I should be losing roughly one lb or half a pound if some calculations are horridly off. Does that make sense?
FWIW, I have lost inches and fit back into my jeans that i hadn't worn in years. Im just frustrated with he scale. and I do feel kind of bloated.
Got it. Sorry for being slow, thank you for breaking it down for me.
Are you confident in your logging? Many times when people aren't losing when they expect it, it's because of an issue with their logging. Are you using a food scale for all solid food (including pre-packaged stuff)? Are you avoiding generic entries?
My diary shouldn't be private. Is generic entry quick add? And I don't weigh religiously. Maybe that's it. Idk. I'm going to just take it down to like 1600 and run less. Probably go back down to 30 miles and I'm going to measure and weigh everything. I just think that even if I was horribly off my numbers I should have at least been at a deficit big enough to lose half a pound.0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »I'll be more helpful than my last post.
Calculate your maintenance calories WITHOUT exercise. Scooby's calc at sedentary is really good for this.
Calculate your running figures by using a heart rate monitor.
Each day calculate your TDEE, depending if it's a rest day. Then you will be fuelling properly for your longer runs.
Take 250 calories off, and hope for a half a pound weight loss per week.
Ideally you should stop exercising and find your true maintenance figure, but you will drop a lot of glycogen and water weight and get even more confused.
It took me some trial and error to work out my burns and maintenance but it was worth it,
Running fast is 600 cals per hour, cycling about 4/500 strength training is impossible to work out so I just use about 200 per hour but I work super hard and heavy with short breaks.
I'm 129lb so your burns will be different.
Well I'm already doing that lol. My deficit is created through running. Maybe I'm burning less than 90 cal a mile? Perhaps eat a little more and check to see if I maintain? Because I don't want to stop running.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »It's easy to overestimate calories burned from high mileage, because the calculators usually don't take into account the amount you'd burn anyway (and also some people just naturally burn less calories otherwise on a long run day). I tend to assume calories are right on for shorter runs, but cut them back substantially for longer runs.
Also, at under 150 you burn less than 100 cal/mile even for shorter runs. (I started running again at 200 and am now 125, and it's so sad how many fewer calories I burn for the same distances -- at least it takes less time, I guess.)
Don't know if any of that helps, as I haven't run your numbers (although I agree you ought to be losing if you are eating 1670 consistently with that exercise), and you might want to have someone look at the logging -- the entries in MFP can be inaccurate if you haven't yet gotten the hang of the database.
How many do you burn per mile?0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »How can your level of exercise be classified as light cardio?
There is something very wrong with all your numbers.
Sorry, but you should ask lots of questions now, risk looking a bit lost, and start again.
It's not. I did that on purpose.0 -
Personally I can't imagine running that mileage while still eating at a deficit. If your #1 goal is weight loss (not improving your running), I'd cut back on both the running (maybe to 20-25 miles/week) and the calories. Running 40 miles/week IS going to make you ravenous, no way around it, and eating at a deficient I don't see how you can properly power your long runs.
Yup. Looks like next week I'm cutting down to 25-30. The hunger is insane.0 -
Measure, measure, measure. All of my long plateaus (including the one I'm in now :P) are usually caused by me getting lazy in measuring. There are certain things I can eyeball perfectly because I see them every day (ounces of cheese) and others where I'm completely lost (servings of cereal and ice cream, which appear hopelessly tiny to me). Use the scale. Measuring cups are for liquids only. In fact, I still use the scale for liquids. If you're religious about weighing and logging, you can be sure your 1670 is really 1670.
My $0.02.0 -
Asher_Ethan wrote: »Let me see if I have this right; you don't eat your exercise calories back, but you run 30-40 miles a week, and you only eat 1670 calories a day?
If that is all correct then you are likely eating more then you think you are. When I run 40 miles in a week I can still lose eating 2300 a day.
Do you log EVERYTHING, even the gun you chew, do you log it all?
Apparently. I do log everything, even my vitamins. I don't weigh pre packaged stuff, so I'm going to start doing that. And I'm thinking I burn less than 90 cals per mile which is what I was going off of. I'm just hoping I'm experiencing bloat because my stomach has been acting up. I don't have dairy because it bloats me up but for the past week I've had ice cream and milk frequently and I can feel the sluggish bloated difference. Oh and I've had Diet Coke for 4 days now. There's that.0 -
The more cardio I do the hungrier I get, irrelative to whether I'm eating cals back.
I suspect your counting is inaccurate, you've got to get it right, then give it time, and cut down on running and eating, until you really know what's going on. You're going to run yourself into an injury at this rate and be really peed off!0 -
Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »It's easy to overestimate calories burned from high mileage, because the calculators usually don't take into account the amount you'd burn anyway (and also some people just naturally burn less calories otherwise on a long run day). I tend to assume calories are right on for shorter runs, but cut them back substantially for longer runs.
Also, at under 150 you burn less than 100 cal/mile even for shorter runs. (I started running again at 200 and am now 125, and it's so sad how many fewer calories I burn for the same distances -- at least it takes less time, I guess.)
Don't know if any of that helps, as I haven't run your numbers (although I agree you ought to be losing if you are eating 1670 consistently with that exercise), and you might want to have someone look at the logging -- the entries in MFP can be inaccurate if you haven't yet gotten the hang of the database.
How many do you burn per mile?
This is a good site (although you will need to do the math): http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning
The net number is the important one.0 -
Made diary public and switched settings. Forgetting Scooby for now. Put myself at 1 lb a week of weight loss at lightly active level. Will shoot to eat that amount and a little more when I run
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Also, I empathize with the issue. Ever since I've been in the healthy weight range I struggle to keep a deficit when running a lot. Trained for a half ironman last year and couldn't, trained for a marathon that took place 2 weeks ago, same thing. I also think it's easier for me to lose when running a little less.0
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Springfield1970 wrote: »The more cardio I do the hungrier I get, irrelative to whether I'm eating cals back.
I suspect your counting is inaccurate, you've got to get it right, then give it time, and cut down on running and eating, until you really know what's going on. You're going to run yourself into an injury at this rate and be really peed off!
I know right! Definitely do not want to get injured. Today my run was very slow and I was so tired. I run my own business so I'm constantly stressed out. I think I push myself too hard. I can honesty say I didn't enjoy my run today because of exhaustion and lack of sleep. Maybe increased mileage too quickly. Thank you for your help!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I empathize with the issue. Ever since I've been in the healthy weight range I struggle to keep a deficit when running a lot. Trained for a half ironman last year and couldn't, trained for a marathon that took place 2 weeks ago, same thing. I also think it's easier for me to lose when running a little less.
Definitely trying less miles 0 -
Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »The more cardio I do the hungrier I get, irrelative to whether I'm eating cals back.
I suspect your counting is inaccurate, you've got to get it right, then give it time, and cut down on running and eating, until you really know what's going on. You're going to run yourself into an injury at this rate and be really peed off!
I know right! Definitely do not want to get injured. Today my run was very slow and I was so tired. I run my own business so I'm constantly stressed out. I think I push myself too hard. I can honesty say I didn't enjoy my run today because of exhaustion and lack of sleep. Maybe increased mileage too quickly. Thank you for your help!
Anytime! Try finding something less taxing to switch off with, like yoga, or mindfulness. Running is such a taxing addiction. Make it your slave and not your master.
I'm a complete running crazy, but I do other things now too, like triathlon, as it was destroying my body and making me fat!!0 -
Food scale (for peanut butter, cookies, rice, oats, everything solid you are consuming).
Consume more protein and fiber to help with fullness. Maybe even more fat to help with higher satiation. I see a lot of carby stuff and while I am not anti-carb, it might be leaving you hungrier than if you were consuming more protein.
I suspect water retention is playing a part here. Sounds like it's only been a couple weeks since you increased mileage? I'd set MFP to lose .5 lb a week, increase protein, maintain your mileage, and wait it out. Weight loss is not linear, it might take more than a couple weeks to get the scale moving again.
For calories burned while running the typical equation is: .63 x (weigh in lbs) x miles ran = total calories burned. That's more conservative than MFP or your HRM or a lot of online calculators will give you. But it's probably a good safe number you could eat back 50-75% of and feel pretty safe with. Stay hydrated. Give it more time.0 -
Along with fiber, have you considered eating fermented foods? From experience, I've noticed that adding fermented foods (kefir, kimchee, homemade sauerkraut) to my diet changed my "ravenous" state to a small signal of mild hunger. Not "OH MY GOD I HAVE TO EAT NOW OR I'M GOING TO PASS OUT." Unless I really have not eaten all day at all, I never feel ravenous anymore. Also, eating a banana before a workout helps with this. YMMV, of course. This is just what I've noticed from my experience.0
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Springfield1970 wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »The more cardio I do the hungrier I get, irrelative to whether I'm eating cals back.
I suspect your counting is inaccurate, you've got to get it right, then give it time, and cut down on running and eating, until you really know what's going on. You're going to run yourself into an injury at this rate and be really peed off!
I know right! Definitely do not want to get injured. Today my run was very slow and I was so tired. I run my own business so I'm constantly stressed out. I think I push myself too hard. I can honesty say I didn't enjoy my run today because of exhaustion and lack of sleep. Maybe increased mileage too quickly. Thank you for your help!
Anytime! Try finding something less taxing to switch off with, like yoga, or mindfulness. Running is such a taxing addiction. Make it your slave and not your master.
I'm a complete running crazy, but I do other things now too, like triathlon, as it was destroying my body and making me fat!!
@Springfield1970 I find it interesting you said this because I have been training for a half marathon now for like 8 or 10 weeks, and although I am weighing pretty close to the same, maybe a 1lb less, I feel fatter. Like my stomach has gotten looser IDK. Can you quantify your experience?0 -
jeepinshawn wrote: »@Springfield1970 I find it interesting you said this because I have been training for a half marathon now for like 8 or 10 weeks, and although I am weighing pretty close to the same, maybe a 1lb less, I feel fatter. Like my stomach has gotten looser IDK. Can you quantify your experience?
Losing visceral/abdominal fat, but skin not stretching back as quickly? Especially if you're an older dude.
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I feel less hungry throughout the day if I replenish carbs within 5 minutes of ending a run. I will drink chocolate milk up to half the calories I burned. It can curb my appetite to the point that I even forget to eat a meal every so often. Doesn't work for everyone but it may be worth a try.0
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I do find that when I up my mileage I see an increase in weight of a pound or two, which I have always attributed to water weight, as my diet and logging are very consistent. If you are anywhere in the neighborhood of a 4k weekly deficit then I would just give it a little more time and I would guess that in the next week or two you'll see the scale catch up.0
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Sounds like you're not eating enough if you're that hungry all the time. On my long run days, I always end up eating over maintenance because I burn more than I would on a short or medium run.
As others have said, your calculations may be wrong so start with sedentary calories, subtract a 0.5lb deficit per week, and eat back most of your exercise calories. I only have 10-15 lbs to lose as well and this is working for me.
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »I don't weigh prepackaged stuff! Maybe that's it. I eat lots of pre packaged stuff like Lenny and Larry cookies. I do measure my peanut butter, creamer, honey, milk, orange juice, cereal. But I use measuring cups not a scale. I use the scale for chicken breasts or sweet potatoes. I can't get around the idea that I'm stuck at this weight! With all the running?? And having worst case a deficit of at least 1750 a week with miscalculations? Jesus I hope it's water weight. I DO feel bloated and have this past week or two. But idk I think in order to cut the last ten pounds I may have to decrease mileage so I won't be starving. There's no way around it.
On the off-chance that you didn't notice...the Nutrition info for Lenny and Larry's cookies is for a half-cookie serving. I have co-workers that didn't realize they were eating 400 calories because they didn't notice the serving size. Worth a mention here.
I saw one at GNC, picked it up, and put it right back down because of that. OP, I agree with others who suspect you're having a logging issue of some kind.
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One pound a week is probably too high a goal; you really should expect to average half a pound.0
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jeepinshawn wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »The more cardio I do the hungrier I get, irrelative to whether I'm eating cals back.
I suspect your counting is inaccurate, you've got to get it right, then give it time, and cut down on running and eating, until you really know what's going on. You're going to run yourself into an injury at this rate and be really peed off!
I know right! Definitely do not want to get injured. Today my run was very slow and I was so tired. I run my own business so I'm constantly stressed out. I think I push myself too hard. I can honesty say I didn't enjoy my run today because of exhaustion and lack of sleep. Maybe increased mileage too quickly. Thank you for your help!
Anytime! Try finding something less taxing to switch off with, like yoga, or mindfulness. Running is such a taxing addiction. Make it your slave and not your master.
I'm a complete running crazy, but I do other things now too, like triathlon, as it was destroying my body and making me fat!!
@Springfield1970 I find it interesting you said this because I have been training for a half marathon now for like 8 or 10 weeks, and although I am weighing pretty close to the same, maybe a 1lb less, I feel fatter. Like my stomach has gotten looser IDK. Can you quantify your experience?
Hi
Yes, when i started running it was before I found calorie counting. I used to get super hungry and either under or over eat, depending if I was in binge or starve mode. So I'd starve the muscle by under eating for a bit, then gain fat by overeating.
I need a tool like MFP to keep me on an even keel.
Sounds to me like you could do with some compound heavy weight lifting after your marathon.0 -
Haha yes I knew thatHappyCampr1 wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »I don't weigh prepackaged stuff! Maybe that's it. I eat lots of pre packaged stuff like Lenny and Larry cookies. I do measure my peanut butter, creamer, honey, milk, orange juice, cereal. But I use measuring cups not a scale. I use the scale for chicken breasts or sweet potatoes. I can't get around the idea that I'm stuck at this weight! With all the running?? And having worst case a deficit of at least 1750 a week with miscalculations? Jesus I hope it's water weight. I DO feel bloated and have this past week or two. But idk I think in order to cut the last ten pounds I may have to decrease mileage so I won't be starving. There's no way around it.
On the off-chance that you didn't notice...the Nutrition info for Lenny and Larry's cookies is for a half-cookie serving. I have co-workers that didn't realize they were eating 400 calories because they didn't notice the serving size. Worth a mention here. always eat half or .25!
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »HappyCampr1 wrote: »Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »I don't weigh prepackaged stuff! Maybe that's it. I eat lots of pre packaged stuff like Lenny and Larry cookies. I do measure my peanut butter, creamer, honey, milk, orange juice, cereal. But I use measuring cups not a scale. I use the scale for chicken breasts or sweet potatoes. I can't get around the idea that I'm stuck at this weight! With all the running?? And having worst case a deficit of at least 1750 a week with miscalculations? Jesus I hope it's water weight. I DO feel bloated and have this past week or two. But idk I think in order to cut the last ten pounds I may have to decrease mileage so I won't be starving. There's no way around it.
On the off-chance that you didn't notice...the Nutrition info for Lenny and Larry's cookies is for a half-cookie serving. I have co-workers that didn't realize they were eating 400 calories because they didn't notice the serving size. Worth a mention here.
I saw one at GNC, picked it up, and put it right back down because of that. OP, I agree with others who suspect you're having a logging issue of some kind.
I still have one occasionally, but I split it in half, re-wrap the other half and save it for the next day. I really like the peanut butter cookie and the lemon poppy seed one.
I feel like I wouldn't be able to eat just half. I AM bulking now, so maybe I'll pick a few of these up today. Lemon poppy sounds amazing. Sorry to temporarily derail; carry on!
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Springfield1970 wrote: »Am I the only one seeing the 35-40 miles a week running and not matching it up with 1670 calories per day AND not losing weight.
Either the calorie counting is off or something.
She's losing, just not as fast as she wants.
And she's seeing high cortisol related bloat (educated guess - stressing about weight, upping miles, under eating, TOM == bloat city)
OP: two weeks is too short a time to evaluate "not losing".
Either reduce miles, or keep your miles and eat a little more. Assure your macros for fat and protein are dialled in.
Give your body time to recover. You'll see that the weight issue is related to exercise stress, etc...
Drink lots of water.
And reduce your loss objective - at 10 lbs to go, you'll only lose about 1/2 lb a week reasonably.
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Sailor_Moon86 wrote: »Maybe it's water weight? I know I've lost inches. Clothes fit better. Even if I was off by half, 2000 caloric deficit should produce at least half a pound of Loss.
I believe so and I know I am going through the same thing. Water retention is normal to help with the healing of muscle tissue that you're tearing up with the weightlifting. I hit a plateau when I began lifting again too. If your calorie count is on point, it is water. Keep it up and you will see results.
I think that's where I am as well. I can google this, but I'm curious how to break through this so I'm not retaining so much water, other than drinking more water (which does seem counter-intuitive).0
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