Paleo diet: honest debate

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  • Naley2322
    Naley2322 Posts: 181 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Cool, any paleo dieters out there with any success on the diet?

    I know 3 people personally, that I am with on a daily basis who fell into the paleo trap.

    They have been on it religiously, between 2 - 3 years. After the initial weight loss, they all 3 put significant weight on, one now has eczema, and 2 are considered just under morbidly obese and 2 now have adult acne. One now also has hashimotos disease.

    Also coming from someone with a degree in anthropology, the diet is very inaccurate. Our paleolithic ancestors did not eat much meat, nor did they eat coconut oil, avocados or eggs.
    Our paleolithic ancestors did however, eat a plant rich diet including WHEAT, legumes, grains, root veggies and most of the things the paleo diet restricts.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,520 Member
    I like the emphasis on whole foods...I dislike how they then turn around and demonize certain whole foods like legumes and things like grains and dairy which are perfectly nutritious and healthy food items outside of having and allergy to one of these things.
  • caurinus
    caurinus Posts: 78 Member
    My last post implies Paleo restricts fruit completely, as it does with dairy, pickles, and legumes. I know it doesn't, fruit is OK in moderation according to the Paleo guidelines. My point is that fibrous carbs like fruit are really good for you, and as long as you're tracking what you eat, and eating within your calorie goals for the day, there's no reason most of those carbs couldn't come from fruit.
  • Poweredbycoffee06
    Poweredbycoffee06 Posts: 39 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Cool, any paleo dieters out there with any success on the diet?

    Yes. For me, eating at CICO was awful because I'm hypoglycemic. So low-carb, high-fat paleo worked much better for me. I wasn't restricting for "no reason" as others have said. I even saw a lot of plus ups others have neglected. I gain muscle much faster than I did before, and so my body composition has improved even beyond weight loss.

    Because I eat more nutrient dense foods, my hair and nails are also stronger than on a diet with grains.

    But seriously, everyone's bodies are different. Do what works for you, and ditch what doesn't. Do your experiment.

    CICO isn't a diet. If you are losing weight it comes down to CICO. It doesn't matter what other label you add to it. If you are doing Paleo and losing weight, CICO is at play.
    CICO doesn't mean counting calories.

    I don't understand why some MPF members can't understand the difference.

  • Panda_Poptarts
    Panda_Poptarts Posts: 971 Member
    I do LCHF/Keto in a similar fashion, minus limiting dairy. I'm completely grain free.

    I've found a variety of health benefits that, while not for everyone, has made this way of eating worth the sacrifice. Positive changes include:
    • Reduction of PCOS symptoms
    • Regular periods (yay!)
    • Less acne / clearer skin
    • Improved "chicken skin", potentially associated with gluten intolerance
    • Disappearance of IBS symptoms
    • Massive reduction in chronic migraines
    • Improvement of A1C from pre-diabetic to normal range

    I don't plan to eat like this forever, but for now, it's been a huge bonus for my overall health. I wish you the best of luck in meeting your health and wellness goals. I hope you find what works for you!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Yes. For me, eating at CICO was awful because I'm hypoglycemic. So low-carb, high-fat paleo worked much better for me.

    Eating at CICO is not a thing. CICO just refers to the fact that you lose, gain, or maintain based on the calorie balance of out vs. in. When you lose on paleo you are also doing CICO, and there's nothing to stop you from crafting your own individual diet based on your preferences, ideas about nutrition, and health/calorie needs. That's what I do. I always find it odd that people seem to think that "CICO" involves some specific mix of food.

    Of course, paleo is variable too. I ate a moderate (not low) amount of carbs and on the low fat side when I was doing it (low calories, my main concern -- not dictated by paleo -- was hitting my protein and getting in veg).
  • IGbnat24
    IGbnat24 Posts: 520 Member
    I would starve without peanut butter or dairy. They make up 1/3-1/3 of my daily calories on any given day. What's so unhealthy about them? I don't get it, so it's not a plan for me. If that's the most unhealthy stuff I eat on a daily basis, I'm good without a diet label.
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    Eat to suit YOUR needs and preferences, not to fit any random "diet"'s specifications :)
  • myheartsabattleground
    myheartsabattleground Posts: 2,040 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.

    WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
  • Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
    Alyssa_Is_LosingIt Posts: 4,696 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.

    WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.

    Or when you eat "paleo," for that matter.
  • CrabNebula
    CrabNebula Posts: 1,119 Member
    edited March 2016
    I think to be logically consistent, you need to actually literally hunt and gather to follow this diet. No going to the supermarket. And then probably starve to death. But hey, you lost weight!
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,671 Member
    edited March 2016
    robs_ready wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.

    What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?

    It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.

    Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.

    You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,671 Member
    edited March 2016
    robs_ready wrote: »
    To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.

    WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.

    That was highly unnecessary.


    CrabNebula wrote: »
    I think to be logically consistent, you need to actually literally hunt and gather to follow this diet. No going to the supermarket. And then probably starve to death. But hey, you lost weight!

    I literally gather in the summer where I live, and it's fun. No hunting though, other than crayfish and mussels.
  • WholeFoods4Lyfe
    WholeFoods4Lyfe Posts: 1,512 Member
    I follow a Paleo-ish diet. I started with a Whole 30 and then one at a time I reintroduced foods. I can't handle foods with gluten, but do ok with rice and corn and will have those occasionally. About 80% of my produce is organic and about 50% of my meats are direct from the farm, the other 50% are from the grocery store. My eggs are from a friend and the chickens are free range.

    I'm not perfect with everything all the time, and even the pioneer of the Paleo movement Mark Sisson says that following a Paleo diet 80% is good. I'm ok with that. I love the diet. I eat delicious fresh foods and I feel great. My GI issues are resolved, I'm mostly off my HB meds, my keratosis pilaris is mostly gone, my skin is clear, and I sleep better. I'm losing weight as well because I can easily maintain a deficit. I'm happy.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 47,094 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.

    Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;

    1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
    2.To have better skin
    3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
    4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
    5.To curb appetite

    May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)

    It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.


    Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.

    Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;

    1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
    Optimal physical health is more than just food. Other factors are stress, rest, genetics, environment, exercise, weight, risk behavior, and mental health (happiness IE). Body doesn't distinguish what you eat. It just breaks food down to simplest form and absorbs. A "clean" potato, isn't digested any different than french frie.
    2.To have better skin
    Keep your skin clean and moisturized and you should be fine.
    3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
    Protein is insuligenic (whether "clean" or not). If you're tired, it's more likely attributed to inadequate rest than food.
    4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
    These are usually issues with neurology and POSSIBLY has something to do with certain foods or lack of them (carbs).
    5.To curb appetite
    This is one of the only things I feel food can do versus the above. Food that is more fiberous or lower in calorie that you can eat in volume will help with curbing appetite.
    May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)

    It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.
    You may want to check if you're a Celiac, but that's done by an allergist or endocrinologist.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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  • KarlynKeto
    KarlynKeto Posts: 323 Member
    edited March 2016
    lithezebra wrote: »
    Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.

    What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?

    This. Amen for some reason. My way of eating overlaps with Paleo, but I don't follow any one diet to the letter. (There are no paleo police enforcing LAWS, lol.) I do what works for me, and what feels best. As far as I see it, Paleo discourages eating processed foods while encouraging people to eat whole healthy foods. That sounds completely sane and healthy to me, so not sure what all the negative snark is based on.

    Personally, I don't eat grains or refined products at all, no added sugar either. My bloodwork is awesome, my health has improved like it hasn't been in years, and I am losing weight comfortably with very little craving or hunger problems. So if anybody tried to convince me I needed those other foods back in my life for the purpose of 'health' I would laugh in their face. Do I need to eat this way? No of course not. Do people need to get a rude opinionated snarky reply for asking a simple question? Of course not.
  • RodaRose
    RodaRose Posts: 9,562 Member
    robs_ready wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.

    What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?

    It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.

    Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.

    Try it for two or three weeks. After assessing how you feel, you can make modifications.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    KarlynKeto wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.

    What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?

    This. Amen for some reason. My way of eating overlaps with Paleo, but I don't follow any one diet to the letter. (There are no paleo police enforcing LAWS, lol.) I do what works for me, and what feels best. As far as I see it, Paleo discourages eating processed foods while encouraging people to eat whole healthy foods. That sounds completely sane and healthy to me, so not sure what all the negative snark is based on.

    Personally, I don't eat grains or refined products at all, no added sugar either. My bloodwork is awesome, my health has improved like it hasn't been in years, and I am losing weight comfortably with very little craving or hunger problems. So if anybody tried to convince me I needed those other foods back in my life for the purpose of 'health' I would laugh in their face. Do I need to eat this way? No of course not. Do people need to get a rude opinionated snarky reply for asking a simple question? Of course not.

    I have perfect bloodwork too eating grains, french fries, everything that is not Paleo. No snark! No one is rude. He asked a question and we are giving opinion.
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    edited March 2016
    lithezebra wrote: »
    robs_ready wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.

    What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?

    It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.

    Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.

    You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.

    Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.

    ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    edited March 2016
    I can vouch for omitting dairy as far as helping skin issues go. When I eliminate it my face clears up and a little patch of excema on my arm goes away.
    But I love it too much to completely give it up, so I put up with skin issues. , which aren't really noticeable anyway.