Paleo diet: honest debate
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robs_ready wrote: »
You might look into Whole30.com and try that for 30 days and see how you do, if you are interested in the experiment. Once you get past the 30 days, you can introduce some foods back into your diet (like some dairy). If you like it and feel better at the end of the 30 days, Paleo might be something that you respond to. If you feel like tearing your hair out and punching people in the throat by the end of the 30 days, it may not so much be for you. Another good resource for the science behind Paleo (and the reason behind eliminating certain foods) is paleoleap.com
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I don't follow paleo because I still include cheese, heavy whipping cream and butter in my diet. I do understand cutting out dairy to see if it is a problem. I did it for a year or so and found I was able to tolerate dairy with almost no lactose.
Otherwise I eat a paleo style diet with a focus on low carbs. Mainly meat with some nuts, veggies amd fruit like avocado thrown in. I never eat grains or added sugars, and I feel great eating that way.
Give it a try. My guess is that you could give it three months and that would give you a good idea if it is going to help. It won't hurt to try.0 -
I did it and liked it well enough and didn't find it difficult (but I like to cook and don't like rice that much and am indifferent to most bread and other grains -- I like oatmeal but didn't actively miss it). I ultimately would have missed pasta and pizza and naan and injera, but at the time I did it I was doing a low cal diet and didn't think I could have those anyway (I was wrong).
On the other hand, I stopped doing it because I missed dairy, was annoyed by the inconvenience (when you can't even grab a quick and healthy lentil soup or some Cuban black beans!), and did not feel any different. (I'd not felt bad before, but was curious if giving up grains, etc., would have some magic effect like some claimed. No, it did not.) And the main reason I gave it up is because I thought I could eat in a healthier way without doing it -- most of the things I like (like the sourcing of meat, lots of vegetables, non carb-heavy breakfast) were things I would do anyway, and some of the things I was cutting out were things I thought I'd be better off eating more of (like legumes). I also think I was eating too much meat for my comfort, but that was a crutch while losing weight so I continued to eat more than I'm totally comfortable with until very recently.
I also think the rationale usually given for the diet (how our ancestors ate) was silly, but that's not really what turned me off, as I knew that going in.
Oh, and yeah I lost weight, but I was on a calorie deficit and continued losing as fast when I went off it.1 -
PricillaKorea wrote: »I am the polar opposite. I mostly follow a vegan lifestyle. I never binge or crave anything. I eat so much grain and pastas and rice and I still lose weight. From what I understand the pales diet restricts these things. I love my high carb low fat diet! My acne has cleared up and I have more muscle toning. I understand that this transition is difficult for many people, but meat already freaked me out, I get nauseous when I smell eggs and I am lactose intolerant. The hclf vegan lifestyle was made for me!
Sounds like you have poor nutritional information and some food aversions.
Eating vegan does not "tone".
And fat is useful for life - please don't remove it too much. Your skin, hair, brain and hormonal balance depend on a minimal fat level.1 -
I began my paleo lifestyle change after doing a whole 30. I truly had issues with food and this was a good way for me to begin. After a whole 30 you can add in any restricted food and see how your body, mood, etc respond after incorporating it again. I have chosen to stay paleo. For me, I feel so much better. I eat a lot more veggies, and my body is no longer bloated, I can sleep now (no insomnia) and I've broken any sugar addiction. It's not really a diet verses a lifestyle change. I love the freedom of not counting calories. My body has learned when it's full and I listen and respond to it better. I have counted calories while being paleo and am about right on track to where I should be, and I'm eating REAL food. I don't miss pizza, cakes, etc... I still eat white rice on occasion, like sushi. I highly recommend reading It Starts With Food to really see how our bodies respond scientifically to foods, etc.
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robs_ready wrote: »Cool, any paleo dieters out there with any success on the diet?
Yes. For me, eating at CICO was awful because I'm hypoglycemic. So low-carb, high-fat paleo worked much better for me. I wasn't restricting for "no reason" as others have said. I even saw a lot of plus ups others have neglected. I gain muscle much faster than I did before, and so my body composition has improved even beyond weight loss.
Because I eat more nutrient dense foods, my hair and nails are also stronger than on a diet with grains.
But seriously, everyone's bodies are different. Do what works for you, and ditch what doesn't. Do your experiment.1 -
robs_ready wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »I hated it and I was miserable.
Miserable as a result of being too restrictive, could you be a bit more specific?
I missed everything that was good to eat. I do love meat and vegetables, but I massively missed bread and beer or anything with grains.0 -
robs_ready wrote: »I've been reading a lot about the paleo diet recently, for a number of reasons, I wish to eliminate certain food types from my diet.
From what I've read, paleo diet restricts grains and only meat can be consumed if it's fed it's natural diet.
The diet advocates lots of fruit and vegetables, limited dairy (preferable none but that's not going to happen), nuts etc...
Some concerns are raised about lacking particular minerals, and that it's a restrictive diet.
I'd be happy to hear any comments on the diet, as I plan to begin shortly.
To get back to the topic....
Things I like about Paleo:
Lots of veggies and protein, which are very filling, very nutritious, and should probably be the source of most of the calories everyone eats in a day.
Restricting trans fats and fruit juices. Trans fats are really bad for you. Juicing takes the fiber out of the fruit. Fiber is important in slowing digestion and preventing insulin spikes, and also is very filling and helps prevent hunger pangs. I'll have a little juice now and then, but it's much better to eat whole fruit.
Things I don't like about Paleo:
High fat. Fat is not filling. I can eat 1000 calories worth of Diamond Smokehouse almonds almost by accident. Fat should be low to moderate. Some is required to keep you healthy, and 20% of calories is about as low as you should go, but if you're trying to lose weight it's best to keep it at 20-25% of calories and eat more of other foods that are more filling. Saturated fats are good in moderation, but some Paleo dieters eat way too much. Also, Olive oil is fine for cooking, contrary to Paleo Doctrine.
Not counting calories. You have no idea whether you're moving toward or away from your weight goals on a meal to meal basis, if you're not at least counting calories. Ideally you're counting carbs, fat, protein, and maybe fiber, to make sure you're at least hitting your minimum targets for each. MFP makes that easy. Thanks, MFP!!!
Restricting fruits, dairy, legumes and pickles for no reason at all. Nonfat dairy is a fantastic source of protein. Fruits, legumes, and pickles are loaded with healthy carbs and fiber. Plus fruits are great portable snacks and fantastic pre-workout fuel.
Lots of pseudoscience about poly fats, historical diets, and the "evils" of carb-heavy diets. Many ancient peoples (not all) ate lots of carbs. They pretty much ate whatever they could find in their environment. Carbs fuel exercise. Low carb is ok for losing weight if you're not very active, but in my humble opinion, low-carb exercise sucks balls and most people perform far, far better in the gym with a good amount of carbs in their system. The Paleo guidelines say "Don't over-exercise." That's crap. Exercise as much as you want, and eat enough carbs to fuel your exercise properly.
Last, and possibly most important, if you're tracking your macros, you can generally eat any food that you want, at least in small quantities.0 -
I don't follow paleo because I still include cheese, heavy whipping cream and butter in my diet. I do understand cutting out dairy to see if it is a problem. I did it for a year or so and found I was able to tolerate dairy with almost no lactose.
Otherwise I eat a paleo style diet with a focus on low carbs. Mainly meat with some nuts, veggies amd fruit like avocado thrown in. I never eat grains or added sugars, and I feel great eating that way.
Give it a try. My guess is that you could give it three months and that would give you a good idea if it is going to help. It won't hurt to try.
Nvmomketo and I eat the same way. I never followed a "diet" but limiting all the over-processed pseudofood and excess calories has had great benefits over the past several years. Go for it!
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robs_ready wrote: »Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.
Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;
1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
2.To have better skin
3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
5.To curb appetite
May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)
It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.
1. Optimal physical health is achieved by a good nutrient balance, physical activity, and managing any medical issues you have. You can have a bad nutrient balance on Paleo as well as on on any other diet. Paleo may help you get there, but you would need to be smart about the foods you eat. The exact same thing can be achieved with any other diet if you are smart about the foods you eat, so Paleo has no advantage there.
2. Skin is more about genetics, hormones, and again, nutrient balance. None of which is specific to Paleo.
3. Are you self-diagnosing? What if your tiredness is caused by an underlying issue? Have you tested your blood sugar after an insulin spike to know for sure that you are hypoglycemic? The only medical issues I know which have an insulin-fatigue relationship are diabetes and chronic fatigue syndrome, both of which need medical attention beyond going on a random diet. There might be other issues I'm not aware of, but I believe medical attention is the first stop for any medical issue.
There is no such thing as "food group intolerances" unless you have severe lactose intolerance, in which case you are intolerant to the whole "dairy" food group. People are intolerant to certain substances in certain foods, not to food groups. Dairy is a special case simply because that substance is present in all dairy products in different concentrations. This is simply not the case for most other food groups. A gluten intolerant person, for example, may need to eliminate wheat, barley..etc, but other grains would still be okay. Again, don't self-diagnose. If you suspect a food allergy or intolerance, you need to get that checked and confirmed.
4. There is no evidence Paleo aids with any of these issues.
5. You may or may not curb your appetite. Or you may find yourself eating less at first because of the novelty of a new diet, but then calorie creep sets in. Many people are more than capable of overeating Paleo foods. Watching your calorie intake is the key to not overeat, and experimentation is the key to finding what foods fill you up better. What if one of these foods turns out to be something Paleo does not allow? Why would you want to arbitrarily limit it in that case?
With that said, it wouldn't hurt to try. Placebo is a powerful thing, and if you end up joining the Paleo cult, the effect is even stronger. You may actually solve all your perceived health issues in addition to finding the answer to life, the universe and everything.
Joking aside. You may end up enjoying the diet and thriving on it (although I'm not sure I could say the same for you wallet). So why not try it and see for yourself.0 -
robs_ready wrote: »Cool, any paleo dieters out there with any success on the diet?
I know 3 people personally, that I am with on a daily basis who fell into the paleo trap.
They have been on it religiously, between 2 - 3 years. After the initial weight loss, they all 3 put significant weight on, one now has eczema, and 2 are considered just under morbidly obese and 2 now have adult acne. One now also has hashimotos disease.
Also coming from someone with a degree in anthropology, the diet is very inaccurate. Our paleolithic ancestors did not eat much meat, nor did they eat coconut oil, avocados or eggs.
Our paleolithic ancestors did however, eat a plant rich diet including WHEAT, legumes, grains, root veggies and most of the things the paleo diet restricts.
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I like the emphasis on whole foods...I dislike how they then turn around and demonize certain whole foods like legumes and things like grains and dairy which are perfectly nutritious and healthy food items outside of having and allergy to one of these things.0
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My last post implies Paleo restricts fruit completely, as it does with dairy, pickles, and legumes. I know it doesn't, fruit is OK in moderation according to the Paleo guidelines. My point is that fibrous carbs like fruit are really good for you, and as long as you're tracking what you eat, and eating within your calorie goals for the day, there's no reason most of those carbs couldn't come from fruit.0
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caeliumspecto wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »Cool, any paleo dieters out there with any success on the diet?
Yes. For me, eating at CICO was awful because I'm hypoglycemic. So low-carb, high-fat paleo worked much better for me. I wasn't restricting for "no reason" as others have said. I even saw a lot of plus ups others have neglected. I gain muscle much faster than I did before, and so my body composition has improved even beyond weight loss.
Because I eat more nutrient dense foods, my hair and nails are also stronger than on a diet with grains.
But seriously, everyone's bodies are different. Do what works for you, and ditch what doesn't. Do your experiment.
CICO isn't a diet. If you are losing weight it comes down to CICO. It doesn't matter what other label you add to it. If you are doing Paleo and losing weight, CICO is at play.
CICO doesn't mean counting calories.
I don't understand why some MPF members can't understand the difference.
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I do LCHF/Keto in a similar fashion, minus limiting dairy. I'm completely grain free.
I've found a variety of health benefits that, while not for everyone, has made this way of eating worth the sacrifice. Positive changes include:- Reduction of PCOS symptoms
- Regular periods (yay!)
- Less acne / clearer skin
- Improved "chicken skin", potentially associated with gluten intolerance
- Disappearance of IBS symptoms
- Massive reduction in chronic migraines
- Improvement of A1C from pre-diabetic to normal range
I don't plan to eat like this forever, but for now, it's been a huge bonus for my overall health. I wish you the best of luck in meeting your health and wellness goals. I hope you find what works for you!1 -
caeliumspecto wrote: »Yes. For me, eating at CICO was awful because I'm hypoglycemic. So low-carb, high-fat paleo worked much better for me.
Eating at CICO is not a thing. CICO just refers to the fact that you lose, gain, or maintain based on the calorie balance of out vs. in. When you lose on paleo you are also doing CICO, and there's nothing to stop you from crafting your own individual diet based on your preferences, ideas about nutrition, and health/calorie needs. That's what I do. I always find it odd that people seem to think that "CICO" involves some specific mix of food.
Of course, paleo is variable too. I ate a moderate (not low) amount of carbs and on the low fat side when I was doing it (low calories, my main concern -- not dictated by paleo -- was hitting my protein and getting in veg).0 -
I would starve without peanut butter or dairy. They make up 1/3-1/3 of my daily calories on any given day. What's so unhealthy about them? I don't get it, so it's not a plan for me. If that's the most unhealthy stuff I eat on a daily basis, I'm good without a diet label.0
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Eat to suit YOUR needs and preferences, not to fit any random "diet"'s specifications
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robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.0 -
myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
Or when you eat "paleo," for that matter.0 -
I think to be logically consistent, you need to actually literally hunt and gather to follow this diet. No going to the supermarket. And then probably starve to death. But hey, you lost weight!0
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robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.0 -
myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
That was highly unnecessary.CrabNebula wrote: »I think to be logically consistent, you need to actually literally hunt and gather to follow this diet. No going to the supermarket. And then probably starve to death. But hey, you lost weight!
I literally gather in the summer where I live, and it's fun. No hunting though, other than crayfish and mussels.
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I follow a Paleo-ish diet. I started with a Whole 30 and then one at a time I reintroduced foods. I can't handle foods with gluten, but do ok with rice and corn and will have those occasionally. About 80% of my produce is organic and about 50% of my meats are direct from the farm, the other 50% are from the grocery store. My eggs are from a friend and the chickens are free range.
I'm not perfect with everything all the time, and even the pioneer of the Paleo movement Mark Sisson says that following a Paleo diet 80% is good. I'm ok with that. I love the diet. I eat delicious fresh foods and I feel great. My GI issues are resolved, I'm mostly off my HB meds, my keratosis pilaris is mostly gone, my skin is clear, and I sleep better. I'm losing weight as well because I can easily maintain a deficit. I'm happy.0 -
robs_ready wrote: »Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.
Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;
1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
2.To have better skin
3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
5.To curb appetite
May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)
It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.
Optimal physical health is more than just food. Other factors are stress, rest, genetics, environment, exercise, weight, risk behavior, and mental health (happiness IE). Body doesn't distinguish what you eat. It just breaks food down to simplest form and absorbs. A "clean" potato, isn't digested any different than french frie.Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.
Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;
1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
Keep your skin clean and moisturized and you should be fine.2.To have better skin
Protein is insuligenic (whether "clean" or not). If you're tired, it's more likely attributed to inadequate rest than food.3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
These are usually issues with neurology and POSSIBLY has something to do with certain foods or lack of them (carbs).4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
This is one of the only things I feel food can do versus the above. Food that is more fiberous or lower in calorie that you can eat in volume will help with curbing appetite.5.To curb appetite
You may want to check if you're a Celiac, but that's done by an allergist or endocrinologist.May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)
It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.
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lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
This. Amen for some reason. My way of eating overlaps with Paleo, but I don't follow any one diet to the letter. (There are no paleo police enforcing LAWS, lol.) I do what works for me, and what feels best. As far as I see it, Paleo discourages eating processed foods while encouraging people to eat whole healthy foods. That sounds completely sane and healthy to me, so not sure what all the negative snark is based on.
Personally, I don't eat grains or refined products at all, no added sugar either. My bloodwork is awesome, my health has improved like it hasn't been in years, and I am losing weight comfortably with very little craving or hunger problems. So if anybody tried to convince me I needed those other foods back in my life for the purpose of 'health' I would laugh in their face. Do I need to eat this way? No of course not. Do people need to get a rude opinionated snarky reply for asking a simple question? Of course not.1 -
robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
Try it for two or three weeks. After assessing how you feel, you can make modifications.
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KarlynKeto wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
This. Amen for some reason. My way of eating overlaps with Paleo, but I don't follow any one diet to the letter. (There are no paleo police enforcing LAWS, lol.) I do what works for me, and what feels best. As far as I see it, Paleo discourages eating processed foods while encouraging people to eat whole healthy foods. That sounds completely sane and healthy to me, so not sure what all the negative snark is based on.
Personally, I don't eat grains or refined products at all, no added sugar either. My bloodwork is awesome, my health has improved like it hasn't been in years, and I am losing weight comfortably with very little craving or hunger problems. So if anybody tried to convince me I needed those other foods back in my life for the purpose of 'health' I would laugh in their face. Do I need to eat this way? No of course not. Do people need to get a rude opinionated snarky reply for asking a simple question? Of course not.
I have perfect bloodwork too eating grains, french fries, everything that is not Paleo. No snark! No one is rude. He asked a question and we are giving opinion.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.
ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.0 -
I can vouch for omitting dairy as far as helping skin issues go. When I eliminate it my face clears up and a little patch of excema on my arm goes away.
But I love it too much to completely give it up, so I put up with skin issues. , which aren't really noticeable anyway.0
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