Treadmill v. Elliptical v. Running outside
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3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »The answer all depends on your goals.
"Fit" means different things to different people.
If calories burned is your target, go for whatever you want or whichever you prefer to do. Although I would be careful as ellipticals can often overestimate. The METs for ellipitical is roughly half of running.
My goal is to be more fit for running and to run faster, so most of my running takes place outside. I would do the treadmill only if I had no other option. I don't bother with the elliptical as it doesn't really mimic running.
The bolded for everyone who thinks the elliptical is like running. It's not.
There is no one "calorie burn" for either a treadmill or an elliptical. So to say "the METs..is roughly half" is absurd. Commercial cross trainers have a workload range that goes from mild to beyond what is humanly possible. Calorie burn is based on workload intensity and either activity has a wide enough range of workload intensities that one can work at whatever load is necessary to achieve a desired calorie burn.
I understand what you are saying but "elliptical moderate effort" is listed in The 2011 Compendium of Physical Activities as 5.0. Running a 10 minute mile is 9.8. I'd consider that moderate but that would depend. A 12 minute mile is 8.3.
I believe that is where the statement would be coming from.
"Moderate effort" is a meaningless term. You can only compare measured workloads. And equal workloads will produce equal calorie burns. By definition, unequal calorie burns MUST be the result of unequal workloads, not different modalities.
I didn't write it, just referencing.
@Azdak @3dogsrunning
You may find this of interest - I use a Cybex ARC trainer which has a very unusual range of movement compared to most ellipticals (goes from a horizontal ellipse to vertical ellipse) and wondered how they came by their calorie estimates....
"Since the ACSM does not have calorie tables for the Arc Trainer CYBEX developed its own Calorie tables using a statistically significant population with both males and females ranging from 18-64 years of age. Calories are calculated using the Incline, Strides per minute at the current resistance level and body weight. "
For their treadmills.....
"Since CYBEX uses the ACSM formula on cycles, steppers, and treadmills to calculate calories, the results are as accurate as the formula. The gold standard for the measurement of energy expenditure is the actual measurement of oxygen consumed. Since that is not generally possible, the formulas were developed using data from oxygen consumption tests for each of the various machines at levels across a population of users. Where a significant factor like weight occurs it is included in the calculation on the machine. Beyond that the formula is as similar or different as two individuals doing the same thing can be in their use of oxygen which correlates directly to calories. As much as an absolute measure of calories burned, the indicated calories should be considered as a benchmark in ones overall consumption of energy."3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »The answer all depends on your goals.
"Fit" means different things to different people.
If calories burned is your target, go for whatever you want or whichever you prefer to do. Although I would be careful as ellipticals can often overestimate. The METs for ellipitical is roughly half of running.
My goal is to be more fit for running and to run faster, so most of my running takes place outside. I would do the treadmill only if I had no other option. I don't bother with the elliptical as it doesn't really mimic running.
The bolded for everyone who thinks the elliptical is like running. It's not.
There is no one "calorie burn" for either a treadmill or an elliptical. So to say "the METs..is roughly half" is absurd. Commercial cross trainers have a workload range that goes from mild to beyond what is humanly possible. Calorie burn is based on workload intensity and either activity has a wide enough range of workload intensities that one can work at whatever load is necessary to achieve a desired calorie burn.
I understand what you are saying but "elliptical moderate effort" is listed in The 2011 Compendium of Physical Activities as 5.0. Running a 10 minute mile is 9.8. I'd consider that moderate but that would depend. A 12 minute mile is 8.3.
I believe that is where the statement would be coming from.
"Moderate effort" is a meaningless term. You can only compare measured workloads. And equal workloads will produce equal calorie burns. By definition, unequal calorie burns MUST be the result of unequal workloads, not different modalities.
I didn't write it, just referencing.
@Azdak @3dogsrunning
You may find this of interest - I use a Cybex ARC trainer which has a very unusual range of movement compared to most ellipticals (goes from a horizontal ellipse to vertical ellipse) and wondered how they came by their calorie estimates....
"Since the ACSM does not have calorie tables for the Arc Trainer CYBEX developed its own Calorie tables using a statistically significant population with both males and females ranging from 18-64 years of age. Calories are calculated using the Incline, Strides per minute at the current resistance level and body weight. "
For their treadmills.....
"Since CYBEX uses the ACSM formula on cycles, steppers, and treadmills to calculate calories, the results are as accurate as the formula. The gold standard for the measurement of energy expenditure is the actual measurement of oxygen consumed. Since that is not generally possible, the formulas were developed using data from oxygen consumption tests for each of the various machines at levels across a population of users. Where a significant factor like weight occurs it is included in the calculation on the machine. Beyond that the formula is as similar or different as two individuals doing the same thing can be in their use of oxygen which correlates directly to calories. As much as an absolute measure of calories burned, the indicated calories should be considered as a benchmark in ones overall consumption of energy."
Yeah, that's pretty much how it works. That's the only time I've actually seen it described in such detail.
As I've mentioned many times before, there is NO common movement pattern for ellipticals and thus there is no ACSM equation that is applicable to all models. Companies such as Life Fitness have the capability to do there own validation studies (sounds like Cybex did as well, although it's not entirely clear from that statement). Others (Matrix for example) use an existing equation for another activity and apply it to the CT.
Unfortunately, the best-selling cross trainer model that LF has in most health clubs is an older design from 2000 that still uses the original software, and so it overstates calorie burn by 25%-30%. But, the newest models should be pretty accurate, if you can find one (Discovery series).
None of this changes the fact that-- whether the displays are accurate or not--you cannot arbitrarily assign one calorie burn to a machine or activity in which the workload is variable and then compare that activity to another. If someone claims that "exercise/machine X burns 20% more calories than exercise/machine Y", it can only be because you are working 20% harder on exercise X--not because of some magic calorie-burning property.
All of the facile comparisons--treadmill running is "pretend" running, treadmill running is just bouncing, ellipticals are pointless because "the machine does all the work"--suffer from the same fatal flaw: regardless of the supposed shortcomings of the exercises, all have the capacity to work someone at intensities up to their VO2 Max. Therefore all of those modalities can achieve a similar aerobic conditioning effect and calorie burn compared to outdoor running.0 -
When the weather is nice and I'm short on time, there's nothing like a quick 30 minute run in the neighborhood, especially when spring is popping. But I live in a flat area, so if I want to train hills or the weather is super cold, then it's the gym. I'm not set on any one thing. I also bike to a lot of errands outside, but rarely bike for exercise.
I'm also liking our new ellipticals at my gym. Rowing for up to 10 or 15 minutes makes me feel like I'm not always doing the same thing.0 -
Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
I have a friend who fell on the ice this winter and sustained a serious head injury requiring weeks of hospitalization and months of outpatient rehab. He may never regain all of his mental faculties.
One of my wife's old college roommates fell on the ice and required multiple surgeries to fix her knee.
I just fell a few weeks ago and landed square on my hip and was in pain for days. It's not something to mess around with.0 -
I run mostly outdoors, no music. I like having the time to myself with my thoughts. I haven't used the elliptical in a long time, but I used it a lot before I got into running. I can't do the treadmill. I get super bored and usually talk myself into just going home!0
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joolie1234 wrote: »I'm in the minority I guess. I love to walk/hike outside with a companion to talk to, but running bores me to tears. I would rather run on the treadmill where I can binge-watch Netflix to pass the time.
Nope I like treadmill, I love singing at the top of my lungs with earbuds in, music makes me pump it up, and safety wise thats not the best for outside
I'm a treadmill gal too. I like the consistency of my pace being set for me. I am a new runner so I may grow out of it, but for now I am all in, indoors that is!
Not sure what I'm going to do when I have to run my first 5k outdoors in 2 weeks.0 -
I think running on trails is the hardest but most enjoyable, followed by any outdoor running. I have mostly been using the treadmill due to the weather (I don't know the ins and outs of cold weather running and clothing).
I did go for an outdoor run yesterday for the first time this year. It was a lot harder to pace myself since I couldn't set my speed to a set speed. It felt like I was running faster than on the treadmill.0 -
Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
Ice is very serious. Do not mess around with ice.
If it's just cold out, as the saying goes there is no poor conditions only poor clothing...
But do NOT mess around with ice.0 -
blues4miles wrote: »Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
Ice is very serious. Do not mess around with ice.
If it's just cold out, as the saying goes there is no poor conditions only poor clothing...
But do NOT mess around with ice.
Yep, I didn't run for nearly four years thanks to slipping on black ice and damaging my knee. I've got myself back to running 10k, but still haven't got back to half marathon distances.
I run outdoors in the spring, summer and autumn, but in the winter (I live in New England) it's my trusty treadmill all the way.0 -
Running outside is better all the way around, but when you live in a horrible climate - It's nice to have a treadmill.0
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Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
Yes. Yes you can. Easily.
That being said, I have run on ice wearing Yak Trax over my shoes. I think only idjits would consider running on ice with regular shoes.0 -
I run outside if I feel like it on weekends, but it isn't that often, maybe once a month.
I run mainly on the treadmill. I have a few podcasts or YT channels I listen/watch while I go my total 4.1 miles a day.
I was running 5.1 miles a day, but switched back to doing rowing because my knee is acting up and rowing is easier on it. The calories burned per hour is comparable with the treadmill and if you have some good music going, it can be fun. I don't get any kind of high at all from running, but rowing + good music = feel so awesome. The better the music, the unconsciously harder I row and the more calories I burn. Row what I can during my break, usually 1800-2000m, jump off and I feel like running about 10 miles to burn off all the energy I suddenly have. But I have to go sit my butt down at my desk and rot for another hour. ZZ.
Elliptical sucks. If I can't run treadmill, I'll just row for cardio. Elliptical sucks. Hate that thing. Either that or go do some strenuous level hiking, conditions permitting.0 -
I only run outside. Don't have a treadmill, and running is nice for that very reason, you don't need expensive equipment beyond shoes. When I went to a gym sort of gym, I did the stair-master machine because it faced inward, toward the gym, and the treadmills faced out. It was more fun to watch guys lift than to watch the sidewalk and occasional cat or rat. I don't go to a gym sort of gym anymore, the fiancé has free weights and the monthly budget goes to unlimited yoga classes now, jazzercise before, stuff that keeps my interest.
Everyone I asked said running outside feels like more effort, I do not know if that translates directly into more calories though.0 -
This argument is mute. As far as caloric burn, there is no difference between any of these ways of exercising. It's all about the level of intensity. If you perform the same level of intensity in each of the exercises, you should achieve the same caloric burn. It's all about tastes. The only difference between running and elliptical is that running is load bearing and can increase bone density. Neither of these are any better than the other. The only downfall to using a treadmill in a lot of cases is that the treadmill may change your natural stride length, gait and foot strike because of the confined length/width of the running platform and may cause problems down the line. I typically stick to the Arc trainer because it's no impact (bad knees) and I can increase the level of resistance as much as I like to increase intensity without having to increase my speed of movement.0
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Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
I have a friend who fell on the ice this winter and sustained a serious head injury requiring weeks of hospitalization and months of outpatient rehab. He may never regain all of his mental faculties.
One of my wife's old college roommates fell on the ice and required multiple surgeries to fix her knee.
I just fell a few weeks ago and landed square on my hip and was in pain for days. It's not something to mess around with.
I know someone who broke her leg on the ice. She made a full recovery, but it really taught me to take the ice seriously. She was around my age and fit -- it really can happen to anyone.0 -
SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Cold weather? Maybe not. Thundersnow and sheets of black ice (typical weather here for the next month) are both great excuses to stay the hell inside. I've broken both legs (one on ice), so it's not like I haven't *tried.*
I find intensity varies with different treadmills and conditions. The treadmill at my mom's place is smooth as butter with fans and lots of music options, so it's great for recovery runs. The one at work is a punishing hellbeast without any sort of cushion, permanently stuck on 1.5 incline and is guaranteed to do damage to my knees no matter how slow I go, so I only use it when I'm feeling particularly good. Running outside falls somewhere between the two extremes. Though I prefer running outside if possible, it isn't always possible! I never use the elliptical--it always felt funny to me, and it's harder to work up a real sweat.
Excuse. I know people who go running/exercising in icy conditions too. You wont break a leg from slipping over a bit....
Yes. Yes you can. Easily.
That being said, I have run on ice wearing Yak Trax over my shoes. I think only idjits would consider running on ice with regular shoes.
I use Yak Trax too. Next winter I think I might put some screws into an older pair of running shoes instead. http://www.competitiverunner.com/screwshoes.html
But icy conditions is a perfectly sane and reasonable reason to run on treadmill. Or even skip a run altogether and sit inside sipping on some hot chocolate.0 -
On a more serious note, I know some fancy treadmills have a decline option. My gym only has treadmills that offer inclines. I learned the lesson of why training with declines (only available outside in my case since I doubt my gym would approve of my placing weights under part of the treadmill to create an artificial decline) is important during my first half marathon. If you have never ran downhill before sore calf muscles will very likely follow your first attempt.
I've seen people put bricks under the back of a treadmill to simulate downhill running. I guess that sort of works.0 -
Treadmill running is pretend running. On a road, there isnt a conveyor belt doing half of the work for you. A road doesnt take up half of your front room either.
Cold weather is not a great excuse. Exercise warms you up...
Bull. You do almost the same amount of work on a treadmill as running on a road, with less impact on your joints. The belt seems to be "pulling" your foot back for you but it's really not the case. You're pushing against the belt. If you don't believe me try running on a treadmill without pushing back against the belt. You'll fly right off of it.
Plenty of people successfully train on treadmills and are still able to throw down good races outside.0
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