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Why is Freelee popular?
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janejellyroll wrote: »_lyndseybrooke_ wrote: »She's a spokesperson for veganism and the vegans seem to worship this chick. She's attractive and has a decent body, so of course she knows what she's talking about, right? And she's controversial, which is interesting to a lot of people.
I personally find her and her boyfriend incredibly annoying, so I don't watch their videos very often. I do know that she is constantly posting response videos for the sole purpose of making non-vegans feel bad about themselves (such as the Blogilates chick, Jenna Marbles, etc.), and her non-preachy videos are of her shopping for bananas and doing a crap ton of bike riding. Yawn.
No, she's actually pretty controversial in the vegan community. Many of us completely reject her -- both for accuracy and for tone.
Don't confuse her popularity within her subset (HCLF) for actual popularity among vegans. She's a spokesperson for a particular subset of veganism.
I'd beg to differ as well. She is most definitely not worshipped by vegans, and I'd argue not even by HCLF vegans. She has a very specific type of follow who worships her, and it's those on her program. Most (Not all) HCLF vegans prefer the starch solution, and most raw vegans follow a fully raw diet. Her brand of crazy is pretty limited to her Raw till four followers.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »_lyndseybrooke_ wrote: »She's a spokesperson for veganism and the vegans seem to worship this chick. She's attractive and has a decent body, so of course she knows what she's talking about, right? And she's controversial, which is interesting to a lot of people.
I personally find her and her boyfriend incredibly annoying, so I don't watch their videos very often. I do know that she is constantly posting response videos for the sole purpose of making non-vegans feel bad about themselves (such as the Blogilates chick, Jenna Marbles, etc.), and her non-preachy videos are of her shopping for bananas and doing a crap ton of bike riding. Yawn.
No, she's actually pretty controversial in the vegan community. Many of us completely reject her -- both for accuracy and for tone.
Don't confuse her popularity within her subset (HCLF) for actual popularity among vegans. She's a spokesperson for a particular subset of veganism.
I'd beg to differ as well. She is most definitely not worshipped by vegans, and I'd argue not even by HCLF vegans. She has a very specific type of follow who worships her, and it's those on her program. Most (Not all) HCLF vegans prefer the starch solution, and most raw vegans follow a fully raw diet. Her brand of crazy is pretty limited to her Raw till four followers.
That's a good point, I should have been more specific. She's popular within a subset of a subset, the Raw Till 4 people.0 -
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So, like, what is she going to do when that fungus kills off all the bananas?3
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stevencloser wrote: »Because CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT WHAT DOCTORS DON'T TELL YOU!
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I tried clicking but all your links are broken...
I am sad now.
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troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Ok, I was basing that on your statement:troutlilly wrote: »
Nice try, but no cigar. I actually don't have insulin resistanceTraveler120 wrote: »I bet he also has insulin resistance just like you do.
"for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better."
Usually it seems most people with metabolic problems like blood sugar issues (insulin resistance) usually opt for low carb diets. If that's not the case for you, then my bad. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, d'you mind if I ask what metabolic health issues you were referring to that require low carb?
I have PCOS and at one point when I weighed about the same and had different eating habits, my blood test said I was borderline prediabetic. The doctor gave me Metformin. After gaining weight again I changed my diet and lost the weight gain. My blood sugar is significantly lower and I didn't have to use meds.
So then I didn't misspeak earlier when I suggested a link to insulin resistance. According to -http://pcosfoundation.org/about-pcos -
"Early diagnosis of PCOS is important as it has been linked to an increased risk for developing several medical risks including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and heart disease."
And according to - http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#resistance -
"Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes."
What I find ironic is that YOU are the one with the health problems but you're adamant that Freelee, who has healthy lab tests and a physically fit bod, is the one who's on a very unhealthy diet and leading her followers astray. Think about that for a second.
Even in the Today show video you posted when you started the thread, Freelee said she's run into overweight nutritionists telling her that her high-carb, low-fat vegan diet is unhealthy. Perhaps they should look in the mirror? And now here you are, with your health problems doing the exact same thing. Oh the irony.0 -
bclarke1990 wrote: »If a very thin, fit, attractive girl came up to your teenager daughter struggling with weight loss and said, "you can eat 6000 calories a day if you just eat tons of delicious fruit, pasta and carbs; just look at me!", you can probably see why people spending their time watching nutrition-themed videos on youtube may be attracted to her "message".
It's a shame really; I think she means well with her vegan message, but she just uses her own anecdotal experience as a cyclist in sweltering Australia and parrots it to "ALL" people
I myself really enjoy eating.. and I enjoy eating a lot.. but I would never choose 5000-6000 calories over 2000 ish. Sheesh that would be so expensive and I'd be eating all the time. What a waste of time and money. Why do in 5000 calories what I can do in 1700?
Besides. She's obviously not eating 5000 calories a day. That's just a lie.4 -
Traveler120 wrote: »
I'm not interested in which diet is better for weightloss. Your initial point #2 said low carb diets are healthier which is what I was disputing. You're conflating 2 separate issues. Diets of different macros can be equally healthy as long as they provide the essential vitamins and minerals we need.troutlilly wrote: »
No, I didn't contradict myself. Here are a few of the studies:.....Traveler120 wrote: »
There's NO such science that shows low carb is healthier. Plus you contradict yourself by saying plant-based diets are healthier. A whole foods plant-based diet is automatically going to be higher carb - grains, legumes, fruits, veggies, unless one eats lots of nuts and added oils.troutlilly wrote: »2. Science has shown how diets with lower carb and higher fat are healthier than higher carb and lower fat diets. Yes, plant-based diets are healthier, but meat in itself isn't unhealthy.
I eat a plant-based diet of mainly whole foods (I do a bit of ice cream and chocolate once a week) and it ends up on average at 75% carbs. I don't eat lots of fats and oils because they tend to raise my cholesterol. And despite the high carbs, my most recent fasting blood glucose was 70 mg/dl (normal is 65-99). And, I've lost 34 lbs doing high carb and now maintaining at 118 lbs, achieved by staying fairly active and on about 1700 calories since the beginning.
I think the reason Freelee is popular is primarily due to her very lean physique on a high carb diet as well a substantial calorie intake. She has definitely proved over the years that carbs don't make you fat. I disagree with some of her positions (like 'smash in the calories'), but she definitely helped me overcome carb-phobia from my miserable low carb paleo days.
I found at least 30 more, but for the sake of avoiding TL;DR, every study found that low carb was more effective in weight loss compared to low fat.
It's possible but completely unnecessary. Whole grains, legumes, fruits, starchy veg are all high carb and nutrient dense, ie. healthy. We're talking about potatoes, beans, lentils, rice, etc, not donuts and processed junk food. As far as weightloss, everyone on MFP knows that regardless of what macros you prefer, as long as your calories out exceed calories in, you will lose weight.troutlilly wrote: »It's very possible to eat a plant-based diet consisting of low carb or lower carbs ...
Oh so you have health issues that don't allow you to eat high carbs? That's probably how you became convinced that high carbs are therefore unhealthy for everyone. And yes Freelee does demonstrate that you can eat a very high amount of carbs and be healthy (with labs to prove it) and ultra slim. There are also rural populations around the world who subsist on high starch diets of potatoes, grains, rice, corn, legumes, fruits and have very low levels of obesity and western type chronic diseases.troutlilly wrote: »It's nice when a person is able to eat higher carbs and retain good health, but for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better. But that wasn't the point of this thread-- the point was discussing why Freelee is so popular and how she clearly misused scientific evidence.
Not to mention cultures that eat only meat (northern). Also healthy.2 -
Traveler120 wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Ok, I was basing that on your statement:troutlilly wrote: »
Nice try, but no cigar. I actually don't have insulin resistanceTraveler120 wrote: »I bet he also has insulin resistance just like you do.
"for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better."
Usually it seems most people with metabolic problems like blood sugar issues (insulin resistance) usually opt for low carb diets. If that's not the case for you, then my bad. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, d'you mind if I ask what metabolic health issues you were referring to that require low carb?
I have PCOS and at one point when I weighed about the same and had different eating habits, my blood test said I was borderline prediabetic. The doctor gave me Metformin. After gaining weight again I changed my diet and lost the weight gain. My blood sugar is significantly lower and I didn't have to use meds.
So then I didn't misspeak earlier when I suggested a link to insulin resistance. According to -http://pcosfoundation.org/about-pcos -
"Early diagnosis of PCOS is important as it has been linked to an increased risk for developing several medical risks including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and heart disease."
And according to - http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#resistance -
"Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes."
What I find ironic is that YOU are the one with the health problems but you're adamant that Freelee, who has healthy lab tests and a physically fit bod, is the one who's on a very unhealthy diet and leading her followers astray. Think about that for a second.
Even in the Today show video you posted when you started the thread, Freelee said she's run into overweight nutritionists telling her that her high-carb, low-fat vegan diet is unhealthy. Perhaps they should look in the mirror? And now here you are, with your health problems doing the exact same thing. Oh the irony.
I didn't want this to become a personal thread but since YOU have made it about me, here it goes.
I have successfully lost over 25 pounds eating lower carb, AND significantly reducing or eliminating nearly all of my PCOS symptoms by eating lower carb and a moderate level of fat and higher protein. I did this with consultation of my doctor who gave me the blood test, and I did it without medication or going into dietary extremes. The Metformin had side effects and I discontinued it. In fact, my hormonal levels have significantly stabilized and I now have consistent, regular periods with less pain and I don't have to take medicine for the cramps, either.
I find it very unsettling you don't think it's a problem that Freelee advocates a lifestyle that caused her amenorrhea, to which she justified it by saying her body no longer needed to menstruate because of toxins? Really? Since when was menstruation about toxins? Let's be honest, she probably only modified her diet to get her period back after she saw the amount of flack over it and also after realizing you know, that's not healthy.
You don't find it odd that she advocates eating well over 3-4K calories a day, when the average person doesn't live a lifestyle to even burn that many calories a day? Freelee has the advantage of being in business for herself (because that's what it is at the end of the day), so she can commit to 2 hour bike rides on a given day or spend hours on another day doing an exercise. How many people have the privilege of an open schedule to do these activities a few days each week? In addition, exercise isn't the main catalyst behind weight loss, it's having negative calories at the end of the day. But if you've watched other Freelee videos, she references her exercises many times in them.
Many of her followers are teenage girls who want to commit to a diet similar to her, despite the fact they should consult with a health professional. Their bodies are still growing and changing, and teenage girls often mess up their bodies with poor nutrition following subsets of subset dietary regimens or fads. YES, you should consult with a health professional before undertaking major dietary changes, not only to ensure you're getting adequate nutrition, but to compare results for the diet's effectiveness.
There are overweight doctors and nutritionists everywhere who should take their own advice or training to heart because that is what they teach. An overweight nutritionist does not negate science. You have failed to provide the scientific evidence demonstrating that the "Raw to 4" diet is superior to all other diets, except for Freelee's testimony. As others have pointed out, she is a very extreme demographic in the vegan territory.
Furthermore, I'm not saying vegan or vegetarian diets are "bad," either. When I refer to low carb and high carb, I consider anything under 100 grams a day as low and anything above 150 to be high carb. It's obvious Freelee eats well above 150 grams per day.
I suspect you'll continue to make this a thing against me and play the outdo the personal testimonies game. No thanks.
ETA: I looked at your profile and I can see why you dislike low carb so much, because it didn't work FOR YOU. So this is just as much of a personal thing to you as you're making it for me.8 -
troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Ok, I was basing that on your statement:troutlilly wrote: »
Nice try, but no cigar. I actually don't have insulin resistanceTraveler120 wrote: »I bet he also has insulin resistance just like you do.
"for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better."
Usually it seems most people with metabolic problems like blood sugar issues (insulin resistance) usually opt for low carb diets. If that's not the case for you, then my bad. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, d'you mind if I ask what metabolic health issues you were referring to that require low carb?
I have PCOS and at one point when I weighed about the same and had different eating habits, my blood test said I was borderline prediabetic. The doctor gave me Metformin. After gaining weight again I changed my diet and lost the weight gain. My blood sugar is significantly lower and I didn't have to use meds.
So then I didn't misspeak earlier when I suggested a link to insulin resistance. According to -http://pcosfoundation.org/about-pcos -
"Early diagnosis of PCOS is important as it has been linked to an increased risk for developing several medical risks including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and heart disease."
And according to - http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#resistance -
"Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes."
What I find ironic is that YOU are the one with the health problems but you're adamant that Freelee, who has healthy lab tests and a physically fit bod, is the one who's on a very unhealthy diet and leading her followers astray. Think about that for a second.
Even in the Today show video you posted when you started the thread, Freelee said she's run into overweight nutritionists telling her that her high-carb, low-fat vegan diet is unhealthy. Perhaps they should look in the mirror? And now here you are, with your health problems doing the exact same thing. Oh the irony.
I suspect you'll continue to make this a thing against me and play the outdo the personal testimonies game. No thanks.
ETA: I looked at your profile and I can see why you dislike low carb so much, because it didn't work FOR YOU. So this is just as much of a personal thing to you as you're making it for me.
You started a thread in the debate section, made a dubious statement like "low carb is healthier than high carb" primarily because of your experience with ongoing health problems. And somehow, you expected everyone, including those who have a different experience and healthy labs, no health problems, as well as successful weightloss on a high carb low fat diet to agree with you? And when they don't agree, you decide they're against you and take it personally? All we're doing is having different points of view and challenging dogdy statements.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »
Ok, I was basing that on your statement:troutlilly wrote: »
Nice try, but no cigar. I actually don't have insulin resistanceTraveler120 wrote: »I bet he also has insulin resistance just like you do.
"for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better."
Usually it seems most people with metabolic problems like blood sugar issues (insulin resistance) usually opt for low carb diets. If that's not the case for you, then my bad. Sorry.
Out of curiosity, d'you mind if I ask what metabolic health issues you were referring to that require low carb?
I have PCOS and at one point when I weighed about the same and had different eating habits, my blood test said I was borderline prediabetic. The doctor gave me Metformin. After gaining weight again I changed my diet and lost the weight gain. My blood sugar is significantly lower and I didn't have to use meds.
So then I didn't misspeak earlier when I suggested a link to insulin resistance. According to -http://pcosfoundation.org/about-pcos -
"Early diagnosis of PCOS is important as it has been linked to an increased risk for developing several medical risks including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and heart disease."
And according to - http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx#resistance -
"Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body produces insulin but does not use it effectively. When people have insulin resistance, glucose builds up in the blood instead of being absorbed by the cells, leading to type 2 diabetes or prediabetes."
What I find ironic is that YOU are the one with the health problems but you're adamant that Freelee, who has healthy lab tests and a physically fit bod, is the one who's on a very unhealthy diet and leading her followers astray. Think about that for a second.
Even in the Today show video you posted when you started the thread, Freelee said she's run into overweight nutritionists telling her that her high-carb, low-fat vegan diet is unhealthy. Perhaps they should look in the mirror? And now here you are, with your health problems doing the exact same thing. Oh the irony.
I suspect you'll continue to make this a thing against me and play the outdo the personal testimonies game. No thanks.
ETA: I looked at your profile and I can see why you dislike low carb so much, because it didn't work FOR YOU. So this is just as much of a personal thing to you as you're making it for me.
You started a thread in the debate section, made a dubious statement like "low carb is healthier than high carb" primarily because of your experience with ongoing health problems. And somehow, you expected everyone, including those who have a different experience and healthy labs, no health problems, as well as successful weightloss on a high carb low fat diet to agree with you? And when they don't agree, you decide they're against you and take it personally? All we're doing is having different points of view and challenging dogdy statements.
You're the only one who redirected it to ME in particular, despite the fact I've made the topic clear. I'm sure there are plenty of other people participating in this thread who don't care for or agree with lower carb diets.
I didn't start this thread because of my experience with ongoing health problems-- you were the one who inquired about it, then made a deal about it.3 -
Aaah come on you two. Kiss and makeup 6
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troutlilly wrote: »I'm sure there are plenty of other people participating in this thread who don't care for or agree with lower carb diets.
Not caring for or agreeing with lower carb diets is NOT the same thing as objecting to the assertion that it has been proven that low carb is healthier (which is not accurate).
What evidence exists is that low carb can be helpful for certain health conditions, even without weight loss, that it doesn't seem to be bad for people in general (as originally assumed, and I suspect it still will vary based on the specifics of the diet, as other studies show positive correlations with vegetable and fruit consumption and lower consumption of sat fat), and that in the short term it tends to show greater weight loss, in particular where protein is not corrected for or the diets are free living. I suspect that part of this is that bigger changes tend to result in lower calories, and another part is that low carb for some segment of the pop and keto for a larger segment tend to reduce appetite. On the other hand, there's a short term study that shows higher carb diets are better for weight loss by obese women without metabolic syndrome (lower carb for those with it), and there are a number of studies that show the initial advantage is lost after a year.
Bigger point is that this is all about weight loss, not health. If someone finds that they lose weight just fine on a higher carb diet (like Traveler, I assume) or that they lose weight and find it more sustainable, there's nothing to say that low carb is "healthier." It's the evangelism, the insistence that that way is the best way that I think tends to result in these arguments (and it's funny it exists even on a thread about Freelee).
For the record, I'm not a fan of Freelee. I am interested in the arguments (health-based) for plant-based diets, without being convinced by any of them so far, so would be interested in a debate on that topic if the two of you wanted to have it. I've read the China Study and some other similar arguments and criticism of those arguments by people I respect, but don't have the knowledge to be comfortable that I fully understand who has the best of those arguments.
My own bias is that healthy traditional human diets and blue zone diets in particular have a variety of macro mixes (some quite high carb), so I can't imagine the carb percentage really matters for health. There are more important things that determine whether a diet is healthy or not, and other things that affect whether a lifestyle is healthy.3 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »vinegar_husbands wrote: »She is pretty, in good shape, and promotes miracle cures.
Why is she posing with food in a BATHROOM?
It's after 4?
Clean eating, in that she washes the food in the shower?
ETA: @nutmegoreo beat me to it.0 -
She has such a nasty attitude.2
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Has anyone seen her "why I hate kids" video? She's actually pretty vile and vindictive. Shame someone who cares about animals and the environment doesn't give a *kitten* about offending people with her methods of forcing her agenda down ya throat. (But not cooked till 4)0
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She's popular cause the drama she produces. I saw one video of her and that was enough for me to figure out most of what she is saying (hopefully) is for reaction and to get people talking.0
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She's such a dang dramaqueen.0
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troutlilly wrote: »
No, I didn't contradict myself. Here are a few of the studies:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-012-2567-4
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/23.long
I found at least 30 more, but for the sake of avoiding TL;DR, every study found that low carb was more effective in weight loss compared to low fat.
It's very possible to eat a plant-based diet consisting of low carb or lower carbs (for those who want their bread fix). There is a wide variety of low carb grains, such as ancient grains, along with a plethora of low carb vegetables which provide high fiber and high nutritional content.
It's nice when a person is able to eat higher carbs and retain good health, but for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better. But that wasn't the point of this thread-- the point was discussing why Freelee is so popular and how she clearly misused scientific evidence.
I don't understand why everyone who advocates low carb automatically thinks everyone else is doing low-fat.
No one's advocated a low-fat diet since the 80s.3 -
annaskiski wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »
No, I didn't contradict myself. Here are a few of the studies:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-012-2567-4
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/23.long
I found at least 30 more, but for the sake of avoiding TL;DR, every study found that low carb was more effective in weight loss compared to low fat.
It's very possible to eat a plant-based diet consisting of low carb or lower carbs (for those who want their bread fix). There is a wide variety of low carb grains, such as ancient grains, along with a plethora of low carb vegetables which provide high fiber and high nutritional content.
It's nice when a person is able to eat higher carbs and retain good health, but for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better. But that wasn't the point of this thread-- the point was discussing why Freelee is so popular and how she clearly misused scientific evidence.
I don't understand why everyone who advocates low carb automatically thinks everyone else is doing low-fat.
No one's advocated a low-fat diet since the 80s.annaskiski wrote: »troutlilly wrote: »
No, I didn't contradict myself. Here are a few of the studies:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-012-2567-4
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/23.long
I found at least 30 more, but for the sake of avoiding TL;DR, every study found that low carb was more effective in weight loss compared to low fat.
It's very possible to eat a plant-based diet consisting of low carb or lower carbs (for those who want their bread fix). There is a wide variety of low carb grains, such as ancient grains, along with a plethora of low carb vegetables which provide high fiber and high nutritional content.
It's nice when a person is able to eat higher carbs and retain good health, but for people like me with underlying metabolic health issues, lower carb is better. But that wasn't the point of this thread-- the point was discussing why Freelee is so popular and how she clearly misused scientific evidence.
I don't understand why everyone who advocates low carb automatically thinks everyone else is doing low-fat.
No one's advocated a low-fat diet since the 80s.
Yeah, I am a vegan who eates higher carbohydrate and higher fat. It's great for my energy and weight loss/maintaining.4
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