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Does anyone else find this creepy?
Replies
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aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »The more active you are, the higher your TDEE, which makes it easier to fit treats/soda into your diet in moderation while still losing/maintaining your weight. Many people can easily have a serving of soda if they want and still hit their calorie and macro goals for the day.
If someone chooses to over-consume anything, whether it's soda or smoked salmon, that's their choice.
Of course Pepsi and Coca Cola are trying to make a profit - they're businesses. It's what businesses do!
Question for you, is 150 calories of soda per day overconsumption? about one can. Because that will increase your risk of diabetes 11 times versus another source of calories.
Can you please provide a source for this?
Since Mayo Clinic doesn't even list soda consumption as a risk factor for T2DM (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/risk-factors/con-20033091), I find it hard to believe that someone at a healthy weight, living an active lifestyle, with a balanced diet and no family history of diabetes would be put more at risk by having 150 calories of soda from time to time.
I don't think the things Mayo Clinic includes under dietary factors is intended to be an exhaustive list.
My point was the other risk factors - overweight, sedentary, family history, high cholesterol/triglycerides, hypertension, ethnicity - play a larger part than consuming soda/sugar in moderate amounts.
You have to look at the context of someone's diet and lifestyle as a whole. You can blame one thing.
But it's a lot easier to demonize a particular food than it is to look at the context in which people actually become obese.
Full calorie soda consumption is falling in America. If soda caused obesity, we'd be seeing a corresponding rate of weight loss. Spoiler alert . . .
This would only be true of everything else were held constant, right?
If obesity is caused by one thing (soda consumption), then lowering soda consumption would have results. But if other things not being constant can also impact soda consumption, then obesity isn't caused exclusively by soda consumption.
I agree 100%.
I didn't think anyone was arguing that soda consumption was the exclusive cause of obesity; but I may have missed it.
If it isn't the cause of obesity, then I don't see the issue with soda companies reminding people to balance the calories they consume with the calories that they burn.
I believe soda plays a significant role in childhood obesity. It would be silly to consider it the sole cause. I still personally don't have any issue with the soda companies advocating activity.
I think consuming more calories than one burns is what is leading to childhood obesity. Can those calories be in the form of soda (or other caloric drinks)? Absolutely. But consuming soda in the context of balancing calories in and calories out -- I'm aware of nothing showing that this is going to lead to obesity.
That's why I think, generally, the message to balance what you eat and what you do is a sound message (even though it is coming from people who want you to purchase soda).
I suppose I can reword my position as follows: I believe sugary sodas are a significant cause of children consuming more calories than they burn.
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Soda "saved" my son's life one night when his blood sugar got into the 20s. It did not cause him to have diabetes. His immune system did that. Even though the pancreas gets all the blame.
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aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
So is soda the only carbohydrate? Unless the answer is "Yes", you have proven the point since this thread was about soda...
And let's not forget the millions of people who don't have diabetes or insulin resistance where carbs (even sugar) have no negative impact.4 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
It is not another topic - the study you posted discusses diabetes risk; I am discussing diabetes risk, and how other risk factors are weighted against soda consumption. I don't see how it's a "different topic" unless you're just trying to avoid discussing it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "convoluted."
Convoluted
adjective
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"its convoluted narrative encompasses all manner of digressions"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, elaborate, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine; More
2. intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
I find your question
What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
convoluted because 1. dietary habits and soda consumption would be intertwined 2. other risk factors for diabetes is a huge category 3. not sure what you mean by moderate (daily? every other day? weekly?)
So... my answer is yes and no and either way?0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
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tincanonastring wrote: »DorkothyParker wrote: »I don't like it.
While I agree that CICO is the basis for weightloss, I don't like the idea of exercise as a currency for food or food as a reward for exercise.
Nutrition is important for health/wellness.
Exercise is important for health/wellness.
I think in the most basic way, most people (diabetics, pre-diabetics, insulin sensitive, etc excluded) are fine having 150 kcal of their daily needs met with soda. It's not a choice I would make, but I'm not their mom.
Every bit of cardio I do is for beer and food. I recognize that I get other benefits from it, but my sole motivation is for more stuff to cram into my facehole. If I don't do the cardio, though, I don't indulge myself with that extra food. Know why? It's because I try to balance what I eat, drink, and do.
Fair enough. I am coming from the perspective of a recovered anorexic. I think this mind set makes food seem more villainous than it is and could, for others, encourage a reduction of calories beyond what is necessary for general health. I think it creates a dichotomy where really it's a synergy.
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aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Carbohydrates are counted in people with diabetes.. that does not mean they are "bad". It means our bodies need insulin to process them and if you are diabetic, you are either not making enough insulin, or you are insulin resistant. My son also has to pay attention to protein and cover some of that with insulin. Does that mean protein is bad? No... it only means protein can also raise the blood glucose in people with diabetes.5 -
I seriously don't understand what the fuss is about with regards to that sticker on the cooler. It's asserting something many people surprisingly lack - common sense.
I disagree about Soda. In my opinion, soda is not playing a significant role in obesity.
The problem is a ridiculously simple one that's a mile wide and an inch deep. If everyone had discipline and understanding with regards to nutrition, obesity would never be a wide-scale (sorry!) problem.
You could magically clear the world of Soda tomorrow, and a year from now obesity would still be a huge problem. What's required to rid the world of obesity isn't to get rid of unhealthy foods - it's to get rid of unhealthy habits. And those can take years to form - so if you're a parent, start your kids off early.
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
Just to be 100% clear. You are implying to me that Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by over-consumption of carbohydrates. If that is the case, we cannot agree to disagree. You are just plain wrong. Regardless of risk factors, the disease would not happen without the over-consumption of carbohydrates. Period.0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
It is not another topic - the study you posted discusses diabetes risk; I am discussing diabetes risk, and how other risk factors are weighted against soda consumption. I don't see how it's a "different topic" unless you're just trying to avoid discussing it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "convoluted."
Convoluted
adjective
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"its convoluted narrative encompasses all manner of digressions"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, elaborate, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine; More
2. intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
I find your question
What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
convoluted because 1. dietary habits and soda consumption would be intertwined 2. other risk factors for diabetes is a huge category 3. not sure what you mean by moderate (daily? every other day? weekly?)
So... my answer is yes and no and either way?
I posed my definition of moderation upthread, but I'll quote it here. I don't think that it's fair for you to tell someone to "go back and read the thread" when you obviously haven't read the responses yourself.It would depend on the person's overall diet and lifestyle. For me, with a calorie goal of about 1600 to lose weight, I prefer not to drink my calories, so moderation for me might be one regular soda per month (though I drink diet soda quite often).
A fit and active male with plenty of LBM who maintains on 3,000 calories and rides their bike 50 miles per day could probably have one a day and it would still be "in moderation."
Context matters.
And thanks for the dictionary reference - I know what the word means, I don't understand why you saw my question as "extremely complex and difficult to follow." I was asking why you thought soda was such a large risk factor given that the other risk factors are likely the main ones to blame for contracting the disease.0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
Just to be 100% clear. You are implying to me that Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by over-consumption of carbohydrates. If that is the case, we cannot agree to disagree. You are just plain wrong. Regardless of risk factors, the disease would not happen without the over-consumption of carbohydrates. Period.
No, you're wrong. It's the over consumption of food, period. There are plenty of healthy individuals consuming 50-80% of their diets on carbohydrates...
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »The more active you are, the higher your TDEE, which makes it easier to fit treats/soda into your diet in moderation while still losing/maintaining your weight. Many people can easily have a serving of soda if they want and still hit their calorie and macro goals for the day.
If someone chooses to over-consume anything, whether it's soda or smoked salmon, that's their choice.
Of course Pepsi and Coca Cola are trying to make a profit - they're businesses. It's what businesses do!
Question for you, is 150 calories of soda per day overconsumption? about one can. Because that will increase your risk of diabetes 11 times versus another source of calories.
Can you please provide a source for this?
Since Mayo Clinic doesn't even list soda consumption as a risk factor for T2DM (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/risk-factors/con-20033091), I find it hard to believe that someone at a healthy weight, living an active lifestyle, with a balanced diet and no family history of diabetes would be put more at risk by having 150 calories of soda from time to time.
I don't think the things Mayo Clinic includes under dietary factors is intended to be an exhaustive list.
My point was the other risk factors - overweight, sedentary, family history, high cholesterol/triglycerides, hypertension, ethnicity - play a larger part than consuming soda/sugar in moderate amounts.
You have to look at the context of someone's diet and lifestyle as a whole. You can blame one thing.
But it's a lot easier to demonize a particular food than it is to look at the context in which people actually become obese.
Full calorie soda consumption is falling in America. If soda caused obesity, we'd be seeing a corresponding rate of weight loss. Spoiler alert . . .
This would only be true of everything else were held constant, right?
If obesity is caused by one thing (soda consumption), then lowering soda consumption would have results. But if other things not being constant can also impact soda consumption, then obesity isn't caused exclusively by soda consumption.
I agree 100%.
I didn't think anyone was arguing that soda consumption was the exclusive cause of obesity; but I may have missed it.
If it isn't the cause of obesity, then I don't see the issue with soda companies reminding people to balance the calories they consume with the calories that they burn.
I believe soda plays a significant role in childhood obesity. It would be silly to consider it the sole cause. I still personally don't have any issue with the soda companies advocating activity.
I think consuming more calories than one burns is what is leading to childhood obesity. Can those calories be in the form of soda (or other caloric drinks)? Absolutely. But consuming soda in the context of balancing calories in and calories out -- I'm aware of nothing showing that this is going to lead to obesity.
That's why I think, generally, the message to balance what you eat and what you do is a sound message (even though it is coming from people who want you to purchase soda).
I suppose I can reword my position as follows: I believe sugary sodas are a significant cause of children consuming more calories than they burn.
Sure. Which is why I think a message reminding people to balance what they eat and drink with what they do (burn) is a sound one, even if it is coming from people who are trying to get me to buy something.2 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
It is not another topic - the study you posted discusses diabetes risk; I am discussing diabetes risk, and how other risk factors are weighted against soda consumption. I don't see how it's a "different topic" unless you're just trying to avoid discussing it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "convoluted."
Convoluted
adjective
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"its convoluted narrative encompasses all manner of digressions"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, elaborate, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine; More
2. intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
I find your question
What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
convoluted because 1. dietary habits and soda consumption would be intertwined 2. other risk factors for diabetes is a huge category 3. not sure what you mean by moderate (daily? every other day? weekly?)
So... my answer is yes and no and either way?
I posed my definition of moderation upthread, but I'll quote it here. I don't think that it's fair for you to tell someone to "go back and read the thread" when you obviously haven't read the responses yourself.It would depend on the person's overall diet and lifestyle. For me, with a calorie goal of about 1600 to lose weight, I prefer not to drink my calories, so moderation for me might be one regular soda per month (though I drink diet soda quite often).
A fit and active male with plenty of LBM who maintains on 3,000 calories and rides their bike 50 miles per day could probably have one a day and it would still be "in moderation."
Context matters.
And thanks for the dictionary reference - I know what the word means, I don't understand why you saw my question as "extremely complex and difficult to follow." I was asking why you thought soda was such a large risk factor given that the other risk factors are likely the main ones to blame for contracting the disease.
Sugar consumption is the risk factor. Soda is liquid sugar. Ok, I can't nurse this thread any longer... Be back much later.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »The more active you are, the higher your TDEE, which makes it easier to fit treats/soda into your diet in moderation while still losing/maintaining your weight. Many people can easily have a serving of soda if they want and still hit their calorie and macro goals for the day.
If someone chooses to over-consume anything, whether it's soda or smoked salmon, that's their choice.
Of course Pepsi and Coca Cola are trying to make a profit - they're businesses. It's what businesses do!
Question for you, is 150 calories of soda per day overconsumption? about one can. Because that will increase your risk of diabetes 11 times versus another source of calories.
Can you please provide a source for this?
Since Mayo Clinic doesn't even list soda consumption as a risk factor for T2DM (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/risk-factors/con-20033091), I find it hard to believe that someone at a healthy weight, living an active lifestyle, with a balanced diet and no family history of diabetes would be put more at risk by having 150 calories of soda from time to time.
I don't think the things Mayo Clinic includes under dietary factors is intended to be an exhaustive list.
My point was the other risk factors - overweight, sedentary, family history, high cholesterol/triglycerides, hypertension, ethnicity - play a larger part than consuming soda/sugar in moderate amounts.
You have to look at the context of someone's diet and lifestyle as a whole. You can blame one thing.
But it's a lot easier to demonize a particular food than it is to look at the context in which people actually become obese.
Full calorie soda consumption is falling in America. If soda caused obesity, we'd be seeing a corresponding rate of weight loss. Spoiler alert . . .
This would only be true of everything else were held constant, right?
If obesity is caused by one thing (soda consumption), then lowering soda consumption would have results. But if other things not being constant can also impact soda consumption, then obesity isn't caused exclusively by soda consumption.
I agree 100%.
I didn't think anyone was arguing that soda consumption was the exclusive cause of obesity; but I may have missed it.
If it isn't the cause of obesity, then I don't see the issue with soda companies reminding people to balance the calories they consume with the calories that they burn.
I believe soda plays a significant role in childhood obesity. It would be silly to consider it the sole cause. I still personally don't have any issue with the soda companies advocating activity.
I think consuming more calories than one burns is what is leading to childhood obesity. Can those calories be in the form of soda (or other caloric drinks)? Absolutely. But consuming soda in the context of balancing calories in and calories out -- I'm aware of nothing showing that this is going to lead to obesity.
That's why I think, generally, the message to balance what you eat and what you do is a sound message (even though it is coming from people who want you to purchase soda).
I suppose I can reword my position as follows: I believe sugary sodas are a significant cause of children consuming more calories than they burn.
Sure. Which is why I think a message reminding people to balance what they eat and drink with what they do (burn) is a sound one, even if it is coming from people who are trying to get me to buy something.
Exactly ^0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
It is not another topic - the study you posted discusses diabetes risk; I am discussing diabetes risk, and how other risk factors are weighted against soda consumption. I don't see how it's a "different topic" unless you're just trying to avoid discussing it.
I'd like to know what you mean by "convoluted."
Convoluted
adjective
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"its convoluted narrative encompasses all manner of digressions"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, elaborate, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine; More
2. intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
I find your question
What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
convoluted because 1. dietary habits and soda consumption would be intertwined 2. other risk factors for diabetes is a huge category 3. not sure what you mean by moderate (daily? every other day? weekly?)
So... my answer is yes and no and either way?
I posed my definition of moderation upthread, but I'll quote it here. I don't think that it's fair for you to tell someone to "go back and read the thread" when you obviously haven't read the responses yourself.It would depend on the person's overall diet and lifestyle. For me, with a calorie goal of about 1600 to lose weight, I prefer not to drink my calories, so moderation for me might be one regular soda per month (though I drink diet soda quite often).
A fit and active male with plenty of LBM who maintains on 3,000 calories and rides their bike 50 miles per day could probably have one a day and it would still be "in moderation."
Context matters.
And thanks for the dictionary reference - I know what the word means, I don't understand why you saw my question as "extremely complex and difficult to follow." I was asking why you thought soda was such a large risk factor given that the other risk factors are likely the main ones to blame for contracting the disease.
Sugar consumption is the risk factor. Soda is liquid sugar. Ok, I can't nurse this thread any longer... Be back much later.
No, over consumption of sugar is a risk factor...5 -
aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
Just to be 100% clear. You are implying to me that Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by over-consumption of carbohydrates. If that is the case, we cannot agree to disagree. You are just plain wrong. Regardless of risk factors, the disease would not happen without the over-consumption of carbohydrates. Period.
No, you're wrong. It's the over consumption of food, period. There are plenty of healthy individuals consuming 50-80% of their diets on carbohydrates...
Please just read about the pathophysiology of Diabetes.0 -
This is a total non-issue for me because I decided to quit drinking soda. I would rather eat my sugar than drink it. An ice cream cone or a candy bar sounds a lot better than a single can of soda. At least there is a modicum of nutritional value in them.
As for the creep factor, that company is just playing it smart, working both sides of the equation so to speak. I just ignore the crap that soda companies spew ...0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
Just to be 100% clear. You are implying to me that Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by over-consumption of carbohydrates. If that is the case, we cannot agree to disagree. You are just plain wrong. Regardless of risk factors, the disease would not happen without the over-consumption of carbohydrates. Period.
No, you're wrong. It's the over consumption of food, period. There are plenty of healthy individuals consuming 50-80% of their diets on carbohydrates...
Please just read about the pathophysiology of Diabetes.
You posted the debate - it seems like it's your turn to discuss the pathophysiology of diabetes. Plenty of people have refuted the claims you're making, but instead of debating, you're making even more claims with no real basis in science and failing to back them up.0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »If you don't think it's a problem, that's your prerogative. It seems Forbes reported on it, so if you want more information about the issue, here's an article for you.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nancyhuehnergarth/2015/12/02/coca-coca-shuts-down-anti-obesity-network-but-still-teaches-energy-balance-in-schools/#70a13ada6d31
The now-defunct GEBN is only one of numerous campaigns, programs and organizations that Big Soda uses to spread its unscientific message of energy balance. The soda industry is even in our schools telling children as young as two, ‘don’t drink less soda, just exercise more.’
Public health experts have long criticized the soda industry’s focus on energy balance as a tactic to deflect attention from its unhealthy portfolio of sugary drinks.
It seems "public health experts" and I share similar views. If you disagree, that's your prerogative too. If someone else would offer research instead of opinion and anecdote, that would be great too.
That doesn't change the glaring problems with the study that you posted, which other people have pointed out and you've yet to counter.
You also did not respond to the Mayo Clinic link that I posted that outlined the main risk factors for diabetes (soda not being one of them). What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt
The Mayo Clinic article looks like it's written at a 6th grade level, like most patient education sheets. It doesn't mention diet at all. Is this supposed to mean that diet plays no part in the development of Type 2 Diabetes?
As far as your question: What would your opinion be on the argument that the context of one's dietary and lifestyle habits in conjunction with the other risk factors for diabetes matters more than moderate soda consumption within one's calorie goals?
Yeah, that's another topic and a little convoluted. Not sure where you're trying to go there, but just start another topic.
Diet plays a role in the sense that over consumption can cause obesity, which can cause T2D. There is no one food responsible for it though...
Diabetes is at its core a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. I don't know how else to say this: you're just plain wrong.
Ask the people who have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes what "one food" their doctor tells them to limit or count...
Now you've completely moved the goal posts.
Having diabetes and being at risk for diabetes are two different things. Just because a person with diabetes processes sugar differently than someone without diabetes, does not mean that carbohydrates/sugar cause diabetes.
The main risk factors are well-known and are outlined in the Mayo Clinic article I posted.
Just to be 100% clear. You are implying to me that Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by over-consumption of carbohydrates. If that is the case, we cannot agree to disagree. You are just plain wrong. Regardless of risk factors, the disease would not happen without the over-consumption of carbohydrates. Period.
No, you're wrong. It's the over consumption of food, period. There are plenty of healthy individuals consuming 50-80% of their diets on carbohydrates...
Please just read about the pathophysiology of Diabetes.
Look at ANY official diabetes site.
Any of them.
Sugar by itself.
Is not.
A risk factor.7
This discussion has been closed.
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