Does a high fat diet reduce cholesterol numbers?

yarwell wrote: »

20yearsyounger wrote: »

yarwell wrote: »

Almost half the patients hospitalized with coronary artery disease have LDL levels <100 mg/dL

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(08)00717-5/abstract

Maybe thats why HDL is part of the key ratios. 10% had HDL > 60, and 1% a combination of low LDL and high HDL.

Indeed, More than half the patients have admission HDL levels <40 mg/dL, whereas <10% have HDL ≥60 mg/dL.

We should also note that " Before admission, only 28,944 (21.1%) patients were receiving lipid-lowering medications. "

GPs use Risk calculators not single variables. My HDL of 70 keeps the doctor at bay.

In an environment with poor endothelial function Hdl does not function properly thereby negating the effects of everyone's high Hdl, in a nutshell it's function that matters not the amount.

his Total cholesterol/HDL has indeed gone up, he is 10 years older after all, but he's still on the axis of the risk chart at 3.1. No panic there.

yarwell wrote: »

Here's a study that might meet the OP's spec except it went the wrong way - they reduced fat content in the diet stepwise while maintaining calorie levels and exchanging fat for carbs. After a controlled spell they went onto ad-lib low fat (15% F) from the controlled feeding, and lost weight. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1439.full.pdf

Triglycerides went up 35% with reducing fat, and HDL cholesterol fell 15%. LDL cholesterol fell 6% when fat went from 35 to 15%. CVD risk factors got worse by reducing the fat content and replacing with carbohydrate.

I guess the prevailing lipophobia makes it difficult to run a similar increasing fat trial.

Funny, these results have been known for decades but until recently people are better understanding what they actually mean. Basically lowering TC is meaningless without context. Nice links mate.

nvmomketo wrote: »

I don't think this article from The Journal of Nutrition was linked yet: A Ketogenic Diet Favorably Affects Serum Biomarkers for Cardiovascular Disease in Normal-Weight Men It's just a short term study.

From what I have learned, LCHF tends to raise HDL, lower triglycerides, and have little affect on LDL numbers but it may rise in some - those LDL measures usually switch to the healthier pattern a so an increase can be good.

This is not true for all, but it appears to be true for most. My guess is that higher carb eaters who already focus on veggies and some fruits would already have a good lipid panel and that thos who switched fom a diet containing sugar and grains would see greater improvements.

The minority who have their blood lipids go up with a high cholesterol diet would not fit this trend either.

This is a good one as its for normal weight. It looks like the total stayed the same as well which would make the total/hdl ratio higher (better).

Wickedfaery73 wrote: »

20yearsyounger wrote: »

Wickedfaery73 wrote: »

Man, the posted triglyceride numbers make mine look down right terrifying! My last numbers were

Triglyceride 417 mg/dL -Standard Range 0 - 150 mg/dL
Triglyceride is greater than 400. LDL Calculation is invalid and cannot be reported.

Cholesterol- 184 mg/dL -Standard Range 7 - 200 mg/dL
HDL Chol- 24 mg/dL -Standard Range 40 - 200 mg/dL
T Chol/HDL Ratio- 7.7 Standard Range<5.0
Non HDL Cholesterol- 160 mg/dL -Standard Range 0 - 130 mg/dLTotal

Pretty interesting that your total Cholesterol remains so low. I assume this is without medication?

Yes that is without medication. My very low HDL and super high triglycerides are what have her (my doc) concerned. I go for a follow up in a couple weeks to see if I have lowered them.

would you say that you have a high body fat? 35%+

After I little cursory research, I found the following information from Dr. Sarah Hallberg.

In her LCHF practice, she says about 1/3 of patients on a low carb diet will see a rise in their LDL (even with lots of other beneficial changes to A1C, insulin sensitivity, weight, etc). Upon closer investigation, with a nuclear magnetic resonance lipid panel, most will have a healthy pattern of mostly large LDL particle and few small, dense LDL particles. However, there is a small subset of people who will actually get a rise in the small, dense LDL particles.

There is evidence that suggests, 1. these small, dense LDL (aka LDL-p) actually have a lower residence time in the body on a LCHF and are circulated faster, reducing the risk associated with oxidative stress and 2. these increases might be r/t rapid weightloss and mobilization of fat and will even out after maintenance weight is achieved. Also, from what I can tell by the biochemistry she explains in the video, it may be that some people (maybe due to the fact that they have been insulin resistant for so long and are metabolically deranged) actually need more insulin that the average person to down-regulate the production of VLDL. What do you think @jquizzle10 ?

However, the question remains unanswered for now--they are conducting a study now (as described in the video link below). When speaking of risk factors for cardiovascular disease, the greatest risk factor is insulin resistance, not LDL or even LDL-p; so with a LCHF you are definitely lowering your overall coronary risk factors. But we do need more information, and for now those 1-2% of patients who get an unfavorable lipid pattern may need to tweak their diets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8jUmCe3zDs

EDIT: just had a thought, on a side note, intermittent fasting may benefit these patients considering VLDL is created by the liver primarily from dietary fat!

Wickedfaery73 wrote: »

20yearsyounger wrote: »

Wickedfaery73 wrote: »

20yearsyounger wrote: »

Wickedfaery73 wrote: »

Man, the posted triglyceride numbers make mine look down right terrifying! My last numbers were

Triglyceride 417 mg/dL -Standard Range 0 - 150 mg/dL
Triglyceride is greater than 400. LDL Calculation is invalid and cannot be reported.

Cholesterol- 184 mg/dL -Standard Range 7 - 200 mg/dL
HDL Chol- 24 mg/dL -Standard Range 40 - 200 mg/dL
T Chol/HDL Ratio- 7.7 Standard Range<5.0
Non HDL Cholesterol- 160 mg/dL -Standard Range 0 - 130 mg/dLTotal

Pretty interesting that your total Cholesterol remains so low. I assume this is without medication?

Yes that is without medication. My very low HDL and super high triglycerides are what have her (my doc) concerned. I go for a follow up in a couple weeks to see if I have lowered them.

would you say that you have a high body fat? 35%+

Probably, I weighed 214lbs when the test was done.

Well, you're on MFP for a reason. Hopefully you are one of those people that once they drop weight, these types of things disappear. You might even be healthier than most.

@aqsylvester I'm more interested in how compelling the data is regarding cardiovascular risk related to LDL particle composition. If the risk is questionable, why chase an unconfirmed hypothesis (i.e. blood lipid composition) at the expense of a known hazard (i.e. insulin resistance)?

Traveler120 wrote: »

JanetYellen wrote: »

If you stay within the same daily calories?
Please provide links.
I want exact info that shows daily caloric info and changes in cholesterol numbers.
Not just sites stating that if you replace the SAD junk food diet with this, well,, of coarse.
Info on diets like the mediterranean, or vegetarian diet vs high fat diet would be nice.
Which is better for cholesterol?

NO, a high fat diet INCREASED my cholesterol. This happened when I started eating low carb, high fat paleo. Prior to going paleo, I had normal labs. This was the first time I had dodgy labs.

On low carb, high fat paleo, I was eating 1500-1700 cals, was around 145 lbs, I'm 5' 4.5". I was mostly sedentary.
Total Cholesterol - 287 (should be <200)
LDL - 203 (should be <100)
HDL - 65 (should be >39)
Triglycerides - 95 (should be <125)

Last June, I changed my diet to a plant-based diet, low fat (10%) and high carb (75%). I had become more active, was eating about 1700-2000 cals and at the time of my blood test, I was about 135 lbs.
Total Cholesterol - 168 (down 41%)
LDL - 108 (down 47%)
HDL - 46
Triglycerides - 71

So, considering the difference in weight between the two tests was only about 10 lbs, and the calorie intake wasn't vastly different, the improvement in cholesterol can be attributed to reducing fat. Exercise also probably helped. I was previously eating a lot of meat, milk, cheese, eggs and used olive oil when cooking. Now I avoid using oil when cooking and have cut waaay back on animal foods. I still eat chocolates and ice cream as I did before though.

Again, with my n=1 study. I actually kept dietary fat intake the SAME before and after the two tests below, which were 3-4 weeks apart. The difference was that I switched from full-fat dairy, a moderate amount of meat (with fat on), but no refined carbohydrate/starches, to no meat, non-fat dairy, one or two fish and egg meals a week and fats primarily from vegetable sources (seeds, nuts). I added in at least one serving of tofu or tempeh per day, and took Benecol chews.

Before:
Total 301
HDL 93
LDL 202
Tri 32

After:
Total 200
HDL 78
LDL 115
Tri 35

Weight didn't change (I'd already lost the weight and was normal weight), and neither did exercise.

I essentially switched from a whole foods diet (including meat and dairy and whole grains and vegetables), to whole foods pescatarian (with non-fat dairy only). I've since reduced the amount of fish and eggs (simply from choice), so will have to see what my numbers are like in about a month.

However, this does suggest that at least for me, the source of dietary fats makes a significant difference.

dopeysmelly wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

JanetYellen wrote: »

If you stay within the same daily calories?
Please provide links.
I want exact info that shows daily caloric info and changes in cholesterol numbers.
Not just sites stating that if you replace the SAD junk food diet with this, well,, of coarse.
Info on diets like the mediterranean, or vegetarian diet vs high fat diet would be nice.
Which is better for cholesterol?

NO, a high fat diet INCREASED my cholesterol. This happened when I started eating low carb, high fat paleo. Prior to going paleo, I had normal labs. This was the first time I had dodgy labs.

On low carb, high fat paleo, I was eating 1500-1700 cals, was around 145 lbs, I'm 5' 4.5". I was mostly sedentary.
Total Cholesterol - 287 (should be <200)
LDL - 203 (should be <100)
HDL - 65 (should be >39)
Triglycerides - 95 (should be <125)

Last June, I changed my diet to a plant-based diet, low fat (10%) and high carb (75%). I had become more active, was eating about 1700-2000 cals and at the time of my blood test, I was about 135 lbs.
Total Cholesterol - 168 (down 41%)
LDL - 108 (down 47%)
HDL - 46
Triglycerides - 71

So, considering the difference in weight between the two tests was only about 10 lbs, and the calorie intake wasn't vastly different, the improvement in cholesterol can be attributed to reducing fat. Exercise also probably helped. I was previously eating a lot of meat, milk, cheese, eggs and used olive oil when cooking. Now I avoid using oil when cooking and have cut waaay back on animal foods. I still eat chocolates and ice cream as I did before though.

Again, with my n=1 study. I actually kept dietary fat intake the SAME before and after the two tests below, which were 3-4 weeks apart. The difference was that I switched from full-fat dairy, a moderate amount of meat (with fat on), but no refined carbohydrate/starches, to no meat, non-fat dairy, one or two fish and egg meals a week and fats primarily from vegetable sources (seeds, nuts). I added in at least one serving of tofu or tempeh per day, and took Benecol chews.

Before:
Total 301
HDL 93
LDL 202
Tri 32

After:
Total 200
HDL 78
LDL 115
Tri 35

Weight didn't change (I'd already lost the weight and was normal weight), and neither did exercise.

I essentially switched from a whole foods diet (including meat and dairy and whole grains and vegetables), to whole foods pescatarian (with non-fat dairy only). I've since reduced the amount of fish and eggs (simply from choice), so will have to see what my numbers are like in about a month.

However, this does suggest that at least for me, the source of dietary fats makes a significant difference.

But you started taking Benecol chews. Those are designed to lower cholesterol. Why couldn't the drop be largely because of the chews?