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Fat Acceptance Movement

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  • meganjcallaghanmeganjcallaghan Member Posts: 949 Member Member Posts: 949 Member
    zyxst wrote: »
    Some people feel FA means you don't give a sh1t about your health. From what I understood it to mean is you don't have to be a certain weight to love yourself. The opponents I've heard from are in disbelief that fat people can love themselves and have "good" blood work/health markers.

    True story...I only lost weight because if I hadn't I wouldn't have been allowed to donate a kidney. I was actually quite happy and healthy when I was fat. No medical issues whatsoever, better cardio stamina than most of my thin friends... I lost the weight and everyone kept saying "you must FEEL so much better!", but I actually felt healthier and more energetic when I was bigger.
  • kmbrooks15kmbrooks15 Member, Premium Posts: 940 Member Member, Premium Posts: 940 Member
    Shaming anyone for any reason is not acceptable. We should view people for who they are and their contribution to society. Adele is a great example; she's overweight but an incredible singer, so what people remember about her first and foremost is her incredible talent.

    HOWEVER--acceptance of the obesity epidemic in this country is dangerous. If we don't do things to try to motivate people to eat healthy foods and exercise, then we are doing our whole country a disservice (I realize I'm preaching to the choir here :wink:). I don't think legislation to limit sodas (as in New York) or Michelle Obama's crappy school lunch program is the answer. Education and incentives would go a long way toward convincing people to get up and move. As for health at any size--I think that's a dangerous road to go down. We know from years of medical research that losing even 10% of your body weight can have serious health benefits in reducing risk of heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other issues. I do think that anyone, of any weight, can get up and move. If you start eating more vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and lean protein and moving around more, you are likely going to naturally lose some weight. The problem is that there are people (I see them in the gym all the time) who work out, and yes, that's healthy; but then they eat crappy food with no nutritional value, and they lose no weight. While they may be healthier than someone (of any size) that sits around doing nothing, you can't tell me they are as healthy as someone who eats a proper diet and exercises.

    So this whole fat acceptance thing is good on a mental health level--learn to love yourself no matter what. But on a physical level, it's dangerous because many will use it as an excuse not to try to improve their health. We're already one of the unhealthiest countries on the planet.
  • Kay_FancyKay_Fancy Member, Premium Posts: 34 Member Member, Premium Posts: 34 Member
    I'll also comment that a lot of issues I have with this "movement" have to do with the lack of consistency when it comes to the "voice" of the FA movement. I think the people with the loudest voices are often the extremists of any issue, and because of this it's very easy to get a narrow perspective on what the issue actually means to the majority of the people who are in support of it.

    People can do what they want, but they must accept the consequences, imo
  • WakkoWWakkoW Member Posts: 567 Member Member Posts: 567 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    So, along those lines, other developments which are not accomplishments to be lauded:

    Stifling a lifelong habit of the gratuitous use of crass profanity

    Abstaining from the illicit, recreational or addictively used street or pharmaceutical drugs

    Becoming sober after years of habitual drunkenness

    Refraining from slapping your sex partners around, after being repeatedly jailed for it

    Committing to daily bathing, after years of limiting showering activity to once every two weeks

    Exactly! Not doing these things should be expected out of each and every person, not praised. Not only that, but it is acceptable to shame drunks, smokers, drug addicts, abusers, etc.
  • 100df100df Member Posts: 668 Member Member Posts: 668 Member
    WakkoW wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    So, along those lines, other developments which are not accomplishments to be lauded:

    Stifling a lifelong habit of the gratuitous use of crass profanity

    Abstaining from the illicit, recreational or addictively used street or pharmaceutical drugs

    Becoming sober after years of habitual drunkenness

    Refraining from slapping your sex partners around, after being repeatedly jailed for it

    Committing to daily bathing, after years of limiting showering activity to once every two weeks

    Exactly! Not doing these things should be expected out of each and every person, not praised. Not only that, but it is acceptable to shame drunks, smokers, drug addicts, abusers, etc.

    Who says it is acceptable to shame these people?
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Member Posts: 30,886 Member Member Posts: 30,886 Member
    kmbrooks15 wrote: »
    Education and incentives would go a long way toward convincing people to get up and move.

    For discussion purposes, what specifically would you propose? I don't think it's an easy problem to solve as a society (on the individual level I think we know what people need to do). I also see lots of education efforts already, and doubt it's a knowledge issue, but I'm generally pro education.
    As for health at any size--I think that's a dangerous road to go down. We know from years of medical research that losing even 10% of your body weight can have serious health benefits in reducing risk of heart disease, diabetes, and a host of other issues. I do think that anyone, of any weight, can get up and move. If you start eating more vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and lean protein and moving around more, you are likely going to naturally lose some weight.

    For me, that's the positive message of HAES. Some people have given up on losing weight, either because they just don't believe they can, are confused about what to do, or--and I think these are the people most attracted to things like FA/HAES--have struggled for a long time with self loathing and yoyo dieting and bingeing and overrestricting and the rest. FOR THEM focusing on ways to improve health (to be as healthy as possible) other than losing weight and giving the dieting efforts a rest would likely be helpful. And IMO if you get active and improve your diet/nutrition, then you will start losing weight and perhaps feel capable of it or perhaps continue to think that dieting messed with your head but keep the positive behaviors and make improvements to your health you wouldn't otherwise have done.

    I was never messed up from yoyo dieting (I've dieted twice, found it reasonably easy both times), but before I did the first time I was convinced I had no control over my weight and it wouldn't work (I was lucky enough when younger to be able to stay at a healthy weight without ever thinking about weight control). Trying to "diet" would have been much more difficult for me than what I did -- deciding that I'd be as fit and healthy as I possibly could, no matter my weight, and deciding to eat better (including less) and get really active and fit through exercise. Although I'd not heard of FA (and did not accept being fat) or HAES, I see this as not all that different in some important ways.
    So this whole fat acceptance thing is good on a mental health level--learn to love yourself no matter what. But on a physical level, it's dangerous because many will use it as an excuse not to try to improve their health. We're already one of the unhealthiest countries on the planet.

    Again, this is not the world I live in. Self-loathing would not have made it easier to lose weight, and accepting myself as a decent, worthwhile person, despite being fat, never once made me think "well, I'd just as soon stay fat." On the other hand, realizing that there were things I could do to improve my fitness (and that I was a confident, capable person in all sorts of other areas who was good at problem solving and not a loser) was immensely helpful in my being able to successfully tackle my weight.
  • distinctlybeautifuldistinctlybeautiful Member Posts: 1,041 Member Member Posts: 1,041 Member
    rankinsect wrote: »
    Obesity is unhealthy. That doesn't mean each obese person is unhealthy. There's a huge difference between the two.

    All I can think of after reading this are those logic problems that go something like this..

    If all fruits are sweet and some fruits are strawberries, then all strawberries are sweet, true or false?

    Except it's more like if having obesity is unhealthy and some people who have obesity have other indicators of good health, then all people who have obesity and other indicators of good health are unhealthy, true or false?

    (I used the phrase "have obesity" to try to neutralize the statement. I didn't think "suffer from" provided an objective enough perspective.)
  • DearestWinterDearestWinter Member Posts: 595 Member Member Posts: 595 Member
    Kay_Fancy wrote: »
    The problem I have with HAES (which should be HABS-health at bigger size) is that they demonize anyone who is trying to lose weight or unintentionally lose weight and they bodyshame thin people. It seems to be covering up binge eating disorder behaviours

    Agreed. Also, I have an issue with things like flights and such. If you take up two seats you have to buy two tickets, the dissent in the FA community about spacial realities baffles me. I don't want to shame anyone, but reality still has to be taken into consideration.

    Does this happen? The issue of getting extra seats for free seems like a theoretical argument that most individuals accept is unrealistic. Maybe there are proponents but I suspect they're extremists. Perhaps I'm wrong.
  • Kay_FancyKay_Fancy Member, Premium Posts: 34 Member Member, Premium Posts: 34 Member
    Kay_Fancy wrote: »
    The problem I have with HAES (which should be HABS-health at bigger size) is that they demonize anyone who is trying to lose weight or unintentionally lose weight and they bodyshame thin people. It seems to be covering up binge eating disorder behaviours

    Agreed. Also, I have an issue with things like flights and such. If you take up two seats you have to buy two tickets, the dissent in the FA community about spacial realities baffles me. I don't want to shame anyone, but reality still has to be taken into consideration.

    Does this happen? The issue of getting extra seats for free seems like a theoretical argument that most individuals accept is unrealistic. Maybe there are proponents but I suspect they're extremists. Perhaps I'm wrong.

    Well I can't be certain of people arguing with airlines over this, I think it's definitely an issue.

    And I've seen on many FA blogs that this is something they are adamant is "discrimination".

    http://thisisthinprivilege.org/post/75175648977/the-thin-privilege-of-airline-seats-and-ticket

    http://thisisthinprivilege.org/tagged/flying-while-fat

    It's clearly an issue in real life:

    https://www.cheapair.com/blog/travel-tips/5-helpful-tips-for-flying-when-youre-an-overweight-traveler/

    https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/specialneeds/extra-seating.aspx

    https://www.cheapair.com/blog/travel-tips/airline-policies-for-overweight-passengers-traveling-this-summer/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3198320/Too-fat-fly-British-man-Les-Price-weighing-35st-forced-pay-two-seats-plane-weren-t-other.html
    edited April 2016
  • PiperGirl08PiperGirl08 Member, Premium Posts: 134 Member Member, Premium Posts: 134 Member
    RobD520 wrote: »
    People can do things that endanger their health quietly without any risk of anyone's scorn. There is a good deal of data, for example, to suggest that even thin looking people who do not exercise are putting themselves at risk as compared to people who maintain a regular exercise regiment.

    The risk of THEIR behavior is not necessarily obvious in their appearance-accept maybe at someplace like the beach. I have seen many people on these boards say that they succeeded at weight loss without exercising. No one scorns them. It is accepted as a choice. If these people are in my insurance risk pool they are likely costing me money just like someone at an unhealthy weight.

    Obesity is often (though not always) apparent at a glance; and is mostly considered unattractive in our culture. I think this is an important reason why this type of unhealthy behavior is singled out by some.

    Drunks often drive and put me at risk. Alcohol is also sometimes associated with other dangerous behaviors. The same is true with drugs. Smoking smells very unpleasant t most non-smokers; and there are concerns about second hand smoke.

    I don't think this is necessarily true. I recall being in High School when all the girls were called into the auditorium and lectured on Anorexia and Bulimia, how dangerous each was, and the irreversible damage they could do to one's organs en route to killing a person.

    Also, with the huge backlash against unhealthily skinny models nowadays -- is it England that will pull publications that depict too-skinny models?

    Finally, it is a fact that in the U.S. at least, there are far more overweight/obese people than there are overly skinny ones. Underweight is a much less common issue. So although the skinny lives are no less worthy of attention, far more lives can be immediately saved by emphasizing largeness.

    Also, overly skinny people have a much different psychological problem, a difference that I believe most people recognize. Thus the two issues are looked upon differently, and rightly so.

    Having said all that, I have to agree on the losing weight without exercise comments. Nothing on this board makes me cringe more than people advising others to forgo exercise when dieting (or in general).
    edited April 2016
  • emz_1993emz_1993 Member Posts: 96 Member Member Posts: 96 Member
    I don't condone fat shaming. I am fat, but I am trying to get healthy. Growing up I was always thin, always. My medications made me balloon in weight so here I am trying to recover what I once lost. The HAES is *kitten*. I don't see how you can be healthy at 500lbs. I really don't.
  • ReaderGirl3ReaderGirl3 Member Posts: 868 Member Member Posts: 868 Member
    RobD520 wrote: »
    People can do things that endanger their health quietly without any risk of anyone's scorn. There is a good deal of data, for example, to suggest that even thin looking people who do not exercise are putting themselves at risk as compared to people who maintain a regular exercise regiment.

    The risk of THEIR behavior is not necessarily obvious in their appearance-accept maybe at someplace like the beach. I have seen many people on these boards say that they succeeded at weight loss without exercising. No one scorns them. It is accepted as a choice. If these people are in my insurance risk pool they are likely costing me money just like someone at an unhealthy weight.

    Obesity is often (though not always) apparent at a glance; and is mostly considered unattractive in our culture. I think this is an important reason why this type of unhealthy behavior is singled out by some.

    Drunks often drive and put me at risk. Alcohol is also sometimes associated with other dangerous behaviors. The same is true with drugs. Smoking smells very unpleasant t most non-smokers; and there are concerns about second hand smoke.

    I'm one of those people you're referring to, and while I don't regularly exercise, I'm in excellent health and have not incurred any extra costs for my insurance company, due to my 'unhealthy' lifestyle of being thin but not exercising regularly. I go in once a year for my annual/pap smear/blood work and that's it. I haven't had to go to the doctor besides that since 2012, which is back when I was overweight. I'm not on any prescriptions or have any health issues. I'm actually labeled 'low risk' according to our insurance, based on my bmi, blood work/waist measurements/being a non-smoker. Go figure.
    edited April 2016
  • RobD520RobD520 Member Posts: 420 Member Member Posts: 420 Member
    RobD520 wrote: »
    People can do things that endanger their health quietly without any risk of anyone's scorn. There is a good deal of data, for example, to suggest that even thin looking people who do not exercise are putting themselves at risk as compared to people who maintain a regular exercise regiment.

    The risk of THEIR behavior is not necessarily obvious in their appearance-accept maybe at someplace like the beach. I have seen many people on these boards say that they succeeded at weight loss without exercising. No one scorns them. It is accepted as a choice. If these people are in my insurance risk pool they are likely costing me money just like someone at an unhealthy weight.

    Obesity is often (though not always) apparent at a glance; and is mostly considered unattractive in our culture. I think this is an important reason why this type of unhealthy behavior is singled out by some.

    Drunks often drive and put me at risk. Alcohol is also sometimes associated with other dangerous behaviors. The same is true with drugs. Smoking smells very unpleasant t most non-smokers; and there are concerns about second hand smoke.

    I'm one of those people you're referring to, and while I don't regularly exercise, I'm in excellent health and have not incurred any extra costs for my insurance company, due to my 'unhealthy' lifestyle of being thin but not exercising regularly. I go in once a year for my annual/pap smear/blood work and that's it. I haven't had to go to the doctor besides that since 2012, which is back when I was overweight. I'm not on any prescriptions or have any health issues. I'm actually labeled 'low risk' according to our insurance, based on my bmi, blood work/waist measurements/being a non-smoker. Go figure.

    I am not disputing any of this and I think it kind of proves my point.

    From a population standpoint, even controlling for weight, on average people who exercise have less healthcare utilization, fewer health issues, and a lower mortality rate than those who do not. Yet you are doing well. You are not a population group, you are one person. I would never presume to pass judgment on what you are doing.

    Similarly, I would suggest that there are people out there with less-than-perfect BMIs about whom we could say the same thing. So we shouldn't use these concepts to judge individuals.

    At least my step-grandfather, whose BMI was around 30 on his 97th birthday, would probably say this.
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