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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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No, I don't think you are. I think a lot of people are purposefully overestimating for the sake of argument and justification. Does being obese increase your risk of disease? Yes, absolutely. But I think it is equally wrong to assume that the obese all are uninsured or not paying for their own medical expenses. Are there some? Of course, and no one is saying otherwise.
Uh...insured medical care isn't free. It's paid for by all of the insureds.7 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Not everybody is like you. This might be hard for you to understand since it doesn't apply to you personally: For some of us, becoming overweight was not preventable. Keep that in mind. Unless you personally know that the person you are judging was able to prevent becoming overweight, don't judge.
It is preventable.that does not mean it is the obese persons fault. I did not say nor imply that. A child is not responsible for their reasons of becoming obese - their parents are. That is the preventable part.2 -
MommyL2015 wrote: »
Just to raise your anecdote with one from me, my maternal grandfather was also diagnosed with T1 as a child. He was never overweight, and for most of his life, was very healthy and active and managed it well. Ultimately, it did kill him. He died when he was in his late 60s from mismanaging it and he had lost his legs. He was not overweight when he died, if anything, he was underweight. I was 12 when he passed away and I am now 44. Being diagnosed as a child with T1 diabetes is not a mandatory ticket to obesity at all.
Type one is most definitely not the same. That type is not based on being obese.1 -
coreyreichle wrote: »
Becoming overweight might not have been preventable (Think childhood obesity) by the individual, but staying that way as an adult is.
Yep. And we are talking about fat acceptance & making (keeping?) obesity socially acceptable.2 -
mommarnurse wrote: »
Type one is most definitely not the same. That type is not based on being obese.
Type 1 is not caused by obesity like type 2 often is, but old treatment methods for type 1 led to rapid weight gain.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Type 1 is not caused by obesity like type 2 often is, but old treatment methods for type 1 led to rapid weight gain.
These are even more recent... published after weight gain became less common with type 1 diabetics:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16776747
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3129711/0 -
I don't think the author is trying to promote fat-shaming I just think she's saying "let's get real" and stop trying to normalize obesity. As she points out, you wouldn't try to normalize anorexia so why this pretense with the other extreme? Both are detrimental to one's health. Furthermore, I've yet to hear of too many formerly obese people who have shed weight and become fit who are saddened by their new image or think back on their obese lifestyle with fondness, most probably with dread.9
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
Good for him and bravo to you for remembering whether your grandfather was overweight as a child and into his adult life. I honestly don't even remember what any of my grandparents looked like when they were my age because I wasn't even born until they were much older (in fact, one of my grandparents died before I was even born).
I'm lucky enough to have photos of my family.2 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »
Uh...insured medical care isn't free. It's paid for by all of the insureds.
I didn't say it was free?
What I'm saying is that the price you pay for insurance is not determined by anyone else's health but your own, so I think it's a bit disingenuous to act like every person who is obese is costing us all money. If they're on Medicare/Medicaid in the US, then yes, I guess you can make that argument, but I'm going to guess unhealthy people of all size are using these programs.
It also looks like insurance companies are leaning towards having risky people pay more for insurance since they will be more likely to use it. I don't have a problem with this.0 -
It's that most people are arguing that fat people are costing them so much money paying for the fat person's health care which seems to be this stereotype that fat people will always have mobility issues because they're fat. I had no physical problems due to me being fat. Curious if I was the "special snowflake".
I'd say you probably are. Pay attention to people in the electric scooters when you're at the supercenter, theme park, etc. If they are under 70 they are most likely obese (not including the ones that have a big cast on a leg)5 -
I didn't say it was free?
What I'm saying is that the price you pay for insurance is not determined by anyone else's health but your own, so I think it's a bit disingenuous to act like every person who is obese is costing us all money. If they're on Medicare/Medicaid in the US, then yes, I guess you can make that argument, but I'm going to guess unhealthy people of all size are using these programs.
It also looks like insurance companies are leaning towards having risky people pay more for insurance since they will be more likely to use it. I don't have a problem with this.
You may want to read up on how insurance works. Unless you are on a Lloyds of London type thing, you are a member of a group plan. The premium is based on the expected healthcare costs of the group. If members of the group start to develop "bad habits", causing costs to rise, premiums for the group will rise, and/or there will be a surcharge for those that engage in the "bad habit, smoking or excess weight for example. You will pay a higher premium for your insurance even if you did nothing or even improved your health status.
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I didn't say it was free?
What I'm saying is that the price you pay for insurance is not determined by anyone else's health but your own, so I think it's a bit disingenuous to act like every person who is obese is costing us all money. If they're on Medicare/Medicaid in the US, then yes, I guess you can make that argument, but I'm going to guess unhealthy people of all size are using these programs.
It also looks like insurance companies are leaning towards having risky people pay more for insurance since they will be more likely to use it. I don't have a problem with this.
That's not how group health insurance works and if you have insurance through your job, it's group health insurance. Pricing is based on the group risk so yes, the higher risk folks are subsidized by the lower risk folks.2 -
I dont think fat shaming is usefull in any way. What is usefull is calling the fat acceptance movement a very harmful negative influence and downright idiotic. The reason i say this is because i believe 99% of people have the capacity to change their situation. If you ask someone who is fat if they would rather be fat or a healthy weight what do you think they would say? Unless they are totally delusional they would say a healthy weight. So knowing that this is true in almost all cases why would anyone accept that being fat is ok (with the exception of those who have serious diseases for which there is no treatment).
Having lost a lot of weight myself i can say that i was stupid and did not see the fundamental truth which i see now. The truth as i see it now is that weight loss is easy. Staying fat is hard because when you are that heavy everything sucks 24/7. Well atleast it did for me. So if you recognize that what you are doing is actually much more difficult than what you are not doing ie. Getting up and going to the gym etc...then it becomes very easy.
Working out 1 or 2 hours a day and taking an hour to prepare healthier food is simple compared to constant suffering. You must ask yourself do i want to suffer or do i want to not suffer.
Not only does this mind trick work for weight loss it can work for anything. If something is within your genetic potential and one of your goals then why would you not want to do it.
For example say you wanted to become a doctor. If you truly are not smart enough then find another goal that is within your genetic potential. But if you are and you think it is hard work ...you must realize that it is not.....it is actually easy because not doing it would be far harder given that is what you truly wanted to do. When you see things like this almost anything becomes possible7 -
I don't think the author is trying to promote fat-shaming I just think she's saying "let's get real" and stop trying to normalize obesity. As she points out, you wouldn't try to normalize anorexia so why this pretense with the other extreme? Both are detrimental to one's health. Furthermore, I've yet to hear of too many formerly obese people who have shed weight and become fit who are saddened by their new image or think back on their obese lifestyle with fondness, most probably with dread.
*waves*
You can add me to that list.
I'm sure I'm far from "fit", though "fitter" than I used to be. I'm kind of "meh" about how I look because I still look the same as I did at 320# albeit the flab hangs down rather than sticks out. I do miss how I used to eat. Why? Because I was much, much happier and less stressed. When I wanted a certain food to eat, I went and got it. I didn't have to bring out my diary and do fiddling to make it fit into my day, then go weigh it and learn "Oh shizzle, it's 150% heavier than stated! I don't have room for 100 extra calories!" Going out to socialize was fun. No one commented on my eating aka no Food Police.
FA/HAES did help me to "accept" how I look - that it's the other people projecting their issues on me; I'm not as ugly or as stupid as I've been told. When the people I knew in HAES shunned me for losing weight, I left and went back to being alone knowing they were just as bad as everyone else.9 -
I see a difference between accepting obesity and accepting obese people. All human beings are worthy of acceptance. No one deserves to be mocked, ridiculed, or shamed.15
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MommyL2015 wrote: »My mom told me stories about him and showed me pictures. I barely remember him, except that he was pretty crotchety after he lost his legs. And I never said you intentionally did anything to yourself, I simply stated that T1 diabetes is not a mandatory obesity sentence, which is true.
We have a cousin who has type 1 and she's not overweight. She's in her 20s now.0 -
People are deserving of respect and dignity regardless of their size. Period. Most people do not choose to be obese, and considering how often people try desperate crash diets, cleanses, and gimmicky programs and products, it's clear it's not easy for many people to drop and maintain weight. So many people give up after years of trying things that don't work.
The HAES group dynamic is something that I disagree with, but I understand what is driving it. When you have people who come together because they have been isolated from mainstream society, some people start enforcing the norm within the group and discouraging others from breaking with that norm. You can see it among many subcultures within society. I'm not saying it's a good thing with HAES, but I understand what is driving the behavior.
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Because I was much, much happier and less stressed. When I wanted a certain food to eat, I went and got it. I didn't have to bring out my diary and do fiddling to make it fit into my day
I have to ask, why do you want to lose weight? (since you're on MFP)
- Every new venture with an objective demands some sort of sacrifice. Eg. you want to get muscular, you have to put in the time and the exercises and then eat a certain diet. You want to be an opera singer, you have to put in the time, you have to give up family outings or social events with friends for example. You have to be present and accountable for your own success. And along the way you will meet all sorts of people, people who'll tell you you're doing it wrong, people who encourage you, people who will ridicule what you're doing, people who are judgemental, people who will be guides, people trying to be helpful but piss you off, the list goes on. Ultimately, you have to follow your own path and decide who and what you are or want to be. You can't stop people from judging, it's human nature.
When the people I knew in HAES shunned me for losing weight, I left and went back to being alone knowing they were just as bad as everyone else.
Interesting. Sounds like you hang with the wrong crowd(s), whether it's FA or the Diet people or diet buddies. Sounds like you feel better when you are on your own. I would guess that it's because you are listening to yourself, and not to what you think society wants. But it also sounds like your life revolves around your weight, make your life about something else and don't bring up your weight (ever).
Tools like MFP and support groups are just there to attain an objective. You have to glean what you find important from the information that is out there. You may have been happier eating the way you wanted but you have to ask yourself did you feel comfortable in your own skin?
Regardless of how you think society sees you. Do you honestly feel good on all levels? Physically, emotionally, mentally (there's more I'm sure). Only you know. Ultimately, you're allowed to be the size you want.
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Interesting. Sounds like you hang with the wrong crowd(s), whether it's FA or the Diet people or diet buddies. Sounds like you feel better when you are on your own. I would guess that it's because you are listening to yourself, and not to what you think society wants. But it also sounds like your life revolves around your weight, make your life about something else and don't bring up your weight (ever).
Tools like MFP and support groups are just there to attain an objective. You have to glean what you find important from the information that is out there. You may have been happier eating the way you wanted but you have to ask yourself did you feel comfortable in your own skin?
Regardless of how you think society sees you. Do you honestly feel good on all levels? Physically, emotionally, mentally (there's more I'm sure). Only you know. Ultimately, you're allowed to be the size you want.
The last 4 years have been about my weight because it's in the forefront of me losing it. Before this, only doctors harped about my weight and that I should lose, though they offered no advice or alternative such as WLS (which should've been something they'd push because I was so close to dying because FAT = UNHEALTHY/DEATH). What I found completely ironic (?) when dealing with HAES/FA proponents is that most of them have a slew of health problems that could've been easier to deal with by not being morbidly obese. The basic reason I lost weight was for simple vanity - I didn't want to spend the next 30 years wearing the same pair of pants (not the same style or same brand, but the same pair because finding any clothing higher than a 4X is nigh impossible in this province).
I don't feel comfortable in my own skin due to my depression. It won't matter if I look like whoever the sexiest/hawtest female is currently or the fattest woman in the world, I'll still not be comfy with me because my brain chemistry is broken. That's not something that can be fixed with support groups or therapy or medication. I do better on my own because I've learned people don't really care about me or how I feel and they certainly can't be bothered to help when asked.
Thank you for the online therapy session. Now I get to fight myself to not go ham on food.
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The last 4 years have been about my weight because it's in the forefront of me losing it. Before this, only doctors harped about my weight and that I should lose, though they offered no advice or alternative such as WLS (which should've been something they'd push because I was so close to dying because FAT = UNHEALTHY/DEATH). What I found completely ironic (?) when dealing with HAES/FA proponents is that most of them have a slew of health problems that could've been easier to deal with by not being morbidly obese. The basic reason I lost weight was for simple vanity - I didn't want to spend the next 30 years wearing the same pair of pants (not the same style or same brand, but the same pair because finding any clothing higher than a 4X is nigh impossible in this province).
I don't feel comfortable in my own skin due to my depression. It won't matter if I look like whoever the sexiest/hawtest female is currently or the fattest woman in the world, I'll still not be comfy with me because my brain chemistry is broken. That's not something that can be fixed with support groups or therapy or medication. I do better on my own because I've learned people don't really care about me or how I feel and they certainly can't be bothered to help when asked.
Thank you for the online therapy session. Now I get to fight myself to not go ham on food.
If you've made positive lifestyle changes through clinical depression than what you have done is that much more of an accomplishment. I hope you can find the therapy or meds that help you stabilize. Not all support groups and therapists are the same. It's like any other group of people, you have to find ones with whom you can get along and who have enough similarities with you that you can share something and see eye-to-eye with them.4 -
Oh God.
It's posts like these that remind me why I, like xzyst, prefer a more solitary approach to life.[/quote]
I don't know what xzyst is, and I'm not sure if I'm being insulted. But the "Oh God!" is telling me it leans toward the not favourable. Carry on then!
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The last 4 years have been about my weight because it's in the forefront of me losing it. Before this, only doctors harped about my weight and that I should lose, though they offered no advice or alternative such as WLS (which should've been something they'd push because I was so close to dying because FAT = UNHEALTHY/DEATH). What I found completely ironic (?) when dealing with HAES/FA proponents is that most of them have a slew of health problems that could've been easier to deal with by not being morbidly obese. The basic reason I lost weight was for simple vanity - I didn't want to spend the next 30 years wearing the same pair of pants (not the same style or same brand, but the same pair because finding any clothing higher than a 4X is nigh impossible in this province).
I don't feel comfortable in my own skin due to my depression. It won't matter if I look like whoever the sexiest/hawtest female is currently or the fattest woman in the world, I'll still not be comfy with me because my brain chemistry is broken. That's not something that can be fixed with support groups or therapy or medication. I do better on my own because I've learned people don't really care about me or how I feel and they certainly can't be bothered to help when asked.
Thank you for the online therapy session. Now I get to fight myself to not go ham on food.
You think too much.-2 -
I don't know what xzyst is, and I'm not sure if I'm being insulted. But the "Oh God!" is telling me it leans toward the not favourable. Carry on then!
xzyst is a user on these forums. Why assume everyone is attacking you?3 -
It's that most people are arguing that fat people are costing them so much money paying for the fat person's health care which seems to be this stereotype that fat people will always have mobility issues because they're fat. I had no physical problems due to me being fat. Curious if I was the "special snowflake".
And, I also know lots of smokers who don't have lung cancer.
They almost certainly will, if they keep smoking.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »
And, I also know lots of smokers who don't have lung cancer.
They almost certainly will, if they keep smoking.
Last I checked, fewer than 10% of lifelong smokers develop lung cancer (although smoking accounts for 90% of lung cancer cases in the US). So no, that is not true.
I'm anti-smoking, but don't think using stats various orgs have twisted into scare tactics is productive long-term.3 -
The fear mongering definitely helped me quit smoking. The thought of lying in a hospital bed dying of something I did to myself and could have been prevented, scared me straight!2
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Christine_72 wrote: »The fear mongering definitely helped me quit smoking. The thought of lying in a hospital bed dying of something I did to myself and could have been prevented, scared me straight!
I'm one that fear-mongering doesn't work on but I watched my husband's father deteriorate to a point where he could barely breathe any longer before he passed away and that was enough to scare me straight almost immediately. Watching him suffer was so, so heartbreaking. He did not have lung cancer but several other problems including COPD and emphysema. He was on all sorts of breathing medications and machines and had to have a tracheotomy. Seeing it on a television commercial is nothing but seeing it happen up close, in real life to a loved one is brain-exploding scary.3 -
Last I checked, fewer than 10% of lifelong smokers develop lung cancer (although smoking accounts for 90% of lung cancer cases in the US). So no, that is not true.
I'm anti-smoking, but don't think using stats various orgs have twisted into scare tactics is productive long-term.
My father never didn't have lung cancer, but the second heart attack he had (smoking being a contributing cause) sure killed him.
Lung cancer isn't the only way to die from smoking.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
My father never didn't have lung cancer, but the second heart attack he had (smoking being a contributing cause) sure killed him.
Lung cancer isn't the only way to die from smoking.
True. One of my grandfathers died in his 40's from it. He had emphysema and throat cancer. He had a heart attack, but I was told it was as he was asphyxiating from a combination of effects from both. I know his youngest son (my uncle) got to stand and watch his father choke to death on his own blood.
As I said. Anti-smoking.
The problem with parroting scare-tactic stats is that the people who find out (or already knew - most smokers do because they've already been bombarded with it) dismiss everything you say after that.0 -
justrollme wrote: »This guy voices my opinion on this with a lot more eloquence than I would:
This guy was so right on. Thanks for sharing.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTQ3aOEz54This discussion has been closed.
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