this article ticks me off
Options
Replies
-
People state that economic conditions are the root cause of eating crap... I don't know that I fully agree with that statement. A box of heartyman uber high calorie meal is about the cost of a bag of apples. A six dollar Big Mac meal? Thats a head of lettuce, 2 cucumbers, a pepper, and a small container of dressing. Its about choices. I agree that some form of knowledge may be required to make good food choices, but at the end of the day don't we all have a pretty good idea that fast food isn't generally the most healthy food out there? People with a medical condition that makes it challenging to lose weight are a small minority of the people on this planet.
There was an article recently (in Houston) about how it wasn't economically feasible for the larger grocery stories to open up shop in the poor neighborhoods. Because a lot of poor people don't have reliable transportation, they were feeding their kids from the McDonald's, or 7-11 down the street. The Mayor was offering financial incentives for grocery stores and farmer's markets to move into the area. I don't think this is that uncommon in poverty stricken areas in the US.0 -
I agree with you that society does try to give people excuses for living unhealthy life styles but i dont agree with comparing obesity to drinking or smoking! I had a very bad drink problem and to give up I had to remove myself from places and situations where I was around alcohol which wasnt easy but doable as you don't need alcohol to live (even though it felt like it at the time). Where as you need food to live so you can't just remove yourself from it so its much harder to change that.
I got to the state I am by being greedy and lazy no other reason but it is bloody hard to change a habit of a life time so I can see wjy people would rather just use an excuse.0 -
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/yoni-freedhoff/smoking-obesity_b_879894.html
So I can choose to smoke and easily quit if I choose to but I can't choose to be fat and easily quit if I choose to? Sorry, I call bullsh*t. I smoke and I was obese. It took lots of hard work to get thin and I have yet to be able to apply those skills to stopping smoking but I could if I wanted it badly enough. I get really tired of hearing that being overweight is not your fault. There are a very few people who have medical conditions that cause them to be overweight. For the vast majority of us, myself included, it is simply a matter of overeating. Solving that problem isn't simple at all but it is still just overeating.
So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?
Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).
We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.
My ten cents...
Best,
Debbie
I agree there are always exceptions but they are the minority, not the majority. I would never blame a child for diabetes? Where on earth did we get to children with diabetes? My husband has diabetes and if you ask him he will tell you, he eats too much and moves too little. My stepfather has diabetes and he took the diabetic diet and followed it RELIGIOUSLY and lo and behold, he no longer needs medications. But he will always be a diabetic and if he were to eat badly again, he would need medication again. Once you have had a weight problem of a significant amount, you are always going to have to manage your food and be careful of your choices but it is still for almost all overweight people, about choices and totally within their control. again, my opinion, for whatever it is worth.0 -
The envinronment argument also works both ways. Can you even turn a corner these days without hearing about both the obesity epidemic and cures for it? If everyone is aware of it then how can they be a victim of the environment except by choice?
Well the dynamics between these two forces are completely different. Yes, we are exposed to things that make us fat as well as things that keep us thin, but in our society which is obsessed with convenience thanks to its fast pace and various other factors, we are constantly pushed toward eating poorly. Environmental forces that cause weight loss, on the other hand, require initiative on our parts.... completely different dynamic. Again, not saying that choice doesn't exist. Just stating what types of environmental forces are at work in today's society.
To give another example, the smoking rate in South Korea is astronomically high. What is the dynamic behind this? Compulsory military service. 99.99% of the young adults finish their compulsory service from the miliary with a nicotine dependency. Do they have a choice in this matter? Technically yes... if they want to be an outcast and not smoke, they can do so. But you cannot deny the strong environmental forces at work here..... and like you said, we are talking about something our bodies aren't even meant to consume. Of course, this is an extreme example and not a perfect analogy...but just saying that environment plays a strong factor....and it takes initiative on the individual to go against the environmental tide in which they were placed. Hmm...maybe we are actually in agreement here...0 -
I agree with you that society does try to give people excuses for living unhealthy life styles but i dont agree with comparing obesity to drinking or smoking! I had a very bad drink problem and to give up I had to remove myself from places and situations where I was around alcohol which wasnt easy but doable as you don't need alcohol to live (even though it felt like it at the time). Where as you need food to live so you can't just remove yourself from it so its much harder to change that.
I got to the state I am by being greedy and lazy no other reason but it is bloody hard to change a habit of a life time so I can see wjy people would rather just use an excuse.
exactly, you do not need cigarettes or alcohol to live so you can(if you can) quit them forever. Food you can't quit and it is tough to control it without the option of just cutting it out of your life. I still struggle when I am out of my element. Put me at a county fair, a good restaurant, a family dinner over the holidays and I have to work way harder to do the right thing. At home I control the food available and make my environment the way I want it but I will always be the one at the party having more carrots and cucumbers off the relish tray and if I do have dessert it is one bite of everything that interests me. And most of the overweight people at the party look at me like I am crazy, then point out my dessert plate to everyone else and say "no wonder she's so skinny". Which is really funny because I am NOT skinny at 5'3" and 141lbs, I am not fat, but certainly not skinny.0 -
I tell ya what's straight up crazy....when I was in my early 20's, I laid down both drug and alcohol addiction. It took me until I was almost 30 to quit smoking. All cold turkey. Now, I understand how you can have moderation with those two things. I can smoke a cigar with some friends and not be climbing the walls looking for nicotine. I can have a few beers and not even come close to wanting to get drunk. Food though....it's sneaky. I never expected to have a hard time saying no to a desire that is so basic.
You get used to being fat and then you wake up one day and go "Holy crap I literally weigh more than 2, full-grown people! When did that happen!" Then you decide to fight it and go to work at an office like the one I'm in. I work in an office where they keep the fridge stocked with ice cream, soda etc. for the employees. Imagine wanting something you're used to eating whenever you want for a couple of decades and then trying to tell yourself no. It's straight up hard to do.
Either way though, no matter what the vice is, it is all about will power for the biggest chunk of us. People with legit medical reasons to be overweight or to use medication, or whatever you want to insert here, aren't the ones who generate statistics of epidemic proportions. It's the rest of us that do. There are a million excuses for everything, we just gotta get to that point where we quit relying on them to help us take the easy way out.0 -
What the ...?
Sorry. I can't respond. I'm just too angry. Thank you for perpetuating the myth that fat people are just lazy and that they are at fault. [note sarcasm]. I never thought I'd see it on this forum. That beats all.
Hollycat
:flowerforyou:0 -
Unfortunatly I am one of those with a medical condition that started with a head injury and seizures and in bed for 2-5 years then a walker and back surgery. BUT I did not not not give up!!!! Here is the thing IMHO about smokeing. I was an alcoholic and addict who smoked and was a sugar junky. I had to start with the first thing and that was getting sober. (over 20 years now) the smoking came over my heart. My lungs were fine but I found the pain in my chest was from my heart over working and like any muscle it gets bigger. So an enlarged heart I could not change with out a heart transplant or quit smoking with the chance it would reverse some which praise God it has! woohooo. Now 4 years after being smoke free I can walk some again and I can work on my weight. NONE of this happens overnight. NONE! You know yourself better then anyone here along with your doctors. This is all about YOUR choices not mine! I know you can make the right choices and in the time line you can do this in. The first step is being honest with yourself and to me just being here and posting as part of the community is a big step.
Good Movie to watch is "Super Size Me"0 -
I do believe that refined carbohydrates are as addicitive as alcohol and cigarettes...
They combine with emotional instability to create serious cravings that are VERY difficult to fight off...
Its only once I realized this that I started to serious limit my intake of refiend carbs and cut myself some slack when I craved foods that I deemed to be bad...
Without that understanding, it very easy for someone who has dieted their whole lives to fall into the trap that since they've failed so may times, since they are to weak to walk away from the cravings... it places all the blame on them when really the break down of refined carbs and the messages it send to the crave centre of your brain is NOT something you control.
It was far easier for me to say no to these cravings once I understood them, but even then I had to rely heavily on good friends who listened to me cry and watched me struggle as I fought my addiction to carbs.
Its not as easy as just shut up and do it'.
And this is coming from someone who finally has and is.
And the message that either you shut-up and do it or you're just making excuses pushes those that haven't gotten there further into the cycle of 'I'm just to weak to do this... pass the pizza'0 -
The envinronment argument also works both ways. Can you even turn a corner these days without hearing about both the obesity epidemic and cures for it? If everyone is aware of it then how can they be a victim of the environment except by choice?
Well the dynamics between these two forces are completely different. Yes, we are exposed to things that make us fat as well as things that keep us thin, but in our society which is obsessed with convenience thanks to its fast pace and various other factors, we are constantly pushed toward eating poorly. Environmental forces that cause weight loss, on the other hand, require initiative on our parts.... completely different dynamic. Again, not saying that choice doesn't exist. Just stating what types of environmental forces are at work in today's society.
To give another example, the smoking rate in South Korea is astronomically high. What is the dynamic behind this? Compulsory military service. 99.99% of the young adults finish their compulsory service from the miliary with a nicotine dependency. Do they have a choice in this matter? Technically yes... if they want to be an outcast and not smoke, they can do so. But you cannot deny the strong environmental forces at work here..... and like you said, we are talking about something our bodies aren't even meant to consume. Of course, this is an extreme example and not a perfect analogy...but just saying that environment plays a strong factor....and it takes initiative on the individual to go against the environmental tide in which they were placed. Hmm...maybe we are actually in agreement here...
LOL! I think we are. I never ever ever said it was easy. It is totally freaking HARD but it is always your choice unless someone is tying you down and force feeding you Big Macs. Example: My husband drives truck. Occasionally I go with him. The only places he stops are truck stops and fast food. I happen to LOVE truck stop and fast food food. You will see me in the truckstop cruising the aisles, reading labels, searching for fresh fruit and protein bars and if I have no other choice grabbing a lunchable because it is portion control and healthier than some of the other choices. I have to work a lot harder to eat better in that environment but when I really want to I do.0 -
http://youtu.be/_6-A0iHSdcA
I found this documentary interesting in terms of blame.
I also think that ...well, people should not be so quick to get angry at individuals for responding predictably to their environment. Doesn't mean its an excuse, but environment matters. We'd change more lives by changing the environment (advertising, culture etc) than growling at people about "personal responsibility".
A lot of the growling about personal responsibility seems to come from two camps. The first is the kind that wants to eat at mcdonalds and is frightened of some dystopian future where they're forced at gun point to eat salads. The second is the person who is constantly worn out from the force of will that it takes to resist temptation and as such resents people who didn't put in that much effort. The first... is just selfish, the second would be as much better off in a world with reduced temptation than the one they're forced to contend with.0 -
http://youtu.be/_6-A0iHSdcA
I found this documentary interesting in terms of blame.
I also think that ...well, people should not be so quick to get angry at individuals for responding predictably to their environment. Doesn't mean its an excuse, but environment matters. We'd change more lives by changing the environment (advertising, culture etc) than growling at people about "personal responsibility".
A lot of the growling about personal responsibility seems to come from two camps. The first is the kind that wants to eat at mcdonalds and is frightened of some dystopian future where they're forced at gun point to eat salads. The second is the person who is constantly worn out from the force of will that it takes to resist temptation and as such resents people who didn't put in that much effort. The first... is just selfish, the second would be as much better off in a world with reduced temptation than the one they're forced to contend with.
VERY well said...
And I mean VERY VERY VERY well said!0 -
I do believe that refined carbohydrates are as addicitive as alcohol and cigarettes...
They combine with emotional instability to create serious cravings that are VERY difficult to fight off...
Its only once I realized this that I started to serious limit my intake of refiend carbs and cut myself some slack when I craved foods that I deemed to be bad...
Without that understanding, it very easy for someone who has dieted their whole lives to fall into the trap that since they've failed so may times, since they are to weak to walk away from the cravings... it places all the blame on them when really the break down of refined carbs and the messages it send to the crave centre of your brain is NOT something you control.
It was far easier for me to say no to these cravings once I understood them, but even then I had to rely heavily on good friends who listened to me cry and watched me struggle as I fought my addiction to carbs.
Its not as easy as just shut up and do it'.
And this is coming from someone who finally has and is.
And the message that either you shut-up and do it or you're just making excuses pushes those that haven't gotten there further into the cycle of 'I'm just to weak to do this... pass the pizza'
Sorry, I never ever said "just shut up and do it" Nope. And to guess what? I am a carb addict with an extreme sensitivity to carbs. to the point I was diagnosed with cyclothymic disorder and spent a year on meds. I had ocd, anxiety attacks and binged like nobody's business. I did not discover the carb addiction until I had already begun dieting and losing weight. I researched and read and learned and tried different methods and eventually realized refined carbs were a big no-no for me. I love me some donuts, cookies, cake, candybars. I can't eat them. I still have to exert self control and will power to keep these things out of my mouth and that is choice I make every single day.
I am never ever about judging someone. I posted an article and said it ticked me off and I didn't believe in what was written. I didn't go onto someone's post who was struggling and asking for help and say "shut up and do it" and you will never see me do that. ever. I have posted on several people's posts who were struggling and after looking at their diary recommended to them that they might have a carb sensitivity and pointed them to articles that would help.0 -
Definitely agree that that attitude can turn some people off, but that's why it all starts with being honest with ourselves, and finding out where we fit in the process. It can be just as frustrating for people who need to hear "shut up and do it" to be coddled and told to go slower.
A beginning runner wouldn't shoot for a marathon in their first few days (at least if they're smart), so naturally they're not gonna train with people who are at that intensity level. That's one thing I look forward to about the community here...the pool has all depths and we can all get the help we need, where we're at, as long as we don't try to bite off more than we can chew.
I'm still a newb though, so I'm trying to find my place in the queue...it doesn't offend me to "hear the big dogs barking" because I know they're where I'm not. Still...sometimes it's hard not to take things personally, so I know what you mean...0 -
Definitely agree that that attitude can turn some people off, but that's why it all starts with being honest with ourselves, and finding out where we fit in the process. It can be just as frustrating for people who need to hear "shut up and do it" to be coddled and told to go slower.
A beginning runner wouldn't should for a marathon in their first few days (at least if they're smart), so naturally they're not gonna train with people who are at that intensity level. That's one thing I look forward to about the community here...the pool has all depths and we can all get the help we need, where we're at, as long as we don't try to bite off more than we can chew.
I'm still a newb though, so I'm trying to find my place in the queue...it doesn't offend me to "hear the big dogs barking" because I know they're where I'm not. Still...sometimes it's hard not to take things personally, so I know what you mean...
Love it "hear the big dogs barking"! as I just said, I never ever ever want to discourage or offend someone but I have lost 165lbs and maintained it and I feel like if I tell what I know I can help people. Nobody has to listen if they don't like what I am saying.0 -
"I have lost 165lbs and maintained it and I feel like if I tell what I know I can help people. Nobody has to listen if they don't like what I am saying."
Some would say amen, I just say BOOM! Right on.0 -
A little off topic but sorta relevant to the general point you are making....
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/user-post-omg-im-obese-quot-the-pretty-face-syndrome-quot-2501704/
This is a girl that fits this mentality to a T...rather than adopt a healthy lifestyle by proper nutrition and exercise she is going the "lazy way" out for cosmetic reasons and a genuine lack of trying the right way.0 -
I don't mean to discount personal accountability and I completely disagree with the line of thinking where smoking is a singular behavior but obesity is not, but how does one explain the meteoric rise in obesity compared to previous decades? It's obvious your surroundings DO play a major role. Telling a morbidly obese person to stop making excuses and eat less is akin to telling a hopeless alcoholic to stop drinking.
You are 100 per cent correct. Of course, you are applying reason and fact to a complex problem. The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality relies completely on simplistic personal responsibility and not at all on an understanding of various genetic, societal and environmental factors. To really solve a problem you need to understand what the problem is. If you don't, making the right choices is simply another short term solution.0 -
The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.
You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.
Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.
Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.
Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.
I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.
So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.
Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.
So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.
I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.
Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.
Scott0 -
The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.
You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.
Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.
Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.
Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.
I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.
So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.
Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.
So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.
I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.
Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.
Scott
BRAVO Scott. For your exceptional accomplishments and your incredible post. Don't ever, ever let anyone downplay the incredible thing you have managed to achieve....i doubt there's been a single easy moment in it.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.9K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.4K Fitness and Exercise
- 403 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 982 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions