challenging myself to give up pop
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »You seem to be assuming that the people you are talking to eat a poor diet. I'm not sure why.
I assume nothing. I'm just stating frequently ignored facts. Why I'm being argued with is beyond me. I never said I didn't drink soda every now and than.
You seem to be giving advice aimed at people who eat excessive levels of phosphorus, and are suggesting that we need to reduce "processed" foods. In that a lot of the processed foods I eat happen to be dairy (cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, cheese), perhaps they do have a phosphorus problem, as stevencloser points out, but you really have no basis to assume that any of us are in a position where we are eating excess "processed" foods, let alone an excess of such foods containing phosphorus (the definition of "processed" is so broad that to discuss them as if they all had anything in common makes no sense). Also, it seems that the sources of phosphorus are all over the place and not particularly tied to "processed" foods.
Apparently ginger ale is a low phosphorus drink.1 -
Anyway, as I said upthread, I totally support OP's decision to cut out pop. I am glad I never had much attachment to sugary pop and stopped drinking it years ago (and can take or leave diet). I just don't think she was in danger due to its phosphorus content.2
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jenniferpiotrowski0 wrote: »
*This. The misinformation in that 'article' did make me laugh, though. I pointed out the sugar turning into fat part of this article being false to a friend, and now she won't speak to me anymore.singingflutelady wrote: »That article is soo full of pseudoscience it's funny. Your body turns huge amount of sugar into fat within 20 minutes of ingesting it? Um ok. Your body doesn't turn anything into fat unless you are in a calorie surplus and it takes a lot longer than 20 minutes.
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Good for you on giving up on these high sugar beverages. I try to avoid sugary drinks whenever I can, even the zero-sugar versions (because of the artificial sweeteners). Sugar is definitely the biggest reason to give these drinks up.1
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stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.9 -
Obviously pop or junk food is not exactly good for your health alone or at least that's what people and doctors will say but I've heard people say in the success stories on here that they kept thier diet the same..the cookies,pop,ice cream pizza or even ate fast food all the time within thier caloric deficit yet they were still able to loose hundreds of pounds and thier doctor told them that thier blood pressure went down,they felt in the healthiest shape of thier lives,they were no longer at risk for diabetes or anything like that when they were in trouble of thier health before counting calories and using myfitnesspal. I even watched a guys video on YouTube saying he never changed his diet..ate fast food and junk all the time but has a chisled 6 pack and healthy now. He says in his video what he did to accomplish it so I'm not so certain its the food or drink that makes you fat but my brother has a friend who cut out a couple sodas and lost weight so maybe its the amount you drink. I haven't seen any difference in my weight yet without soda yet but its only almost been 5 days. I was drinking 2-3 sodas sometimes per day sometimes every other day,sometimes no days cuz I kept it under my calorie goal. But I do feel less weighed down and less depressed which is weird cuz I didn't think pop can make you depressed. I heard its linked to depression so Idk if that's why or if its in my head
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stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
It isn't sustainable, and would lead to a myriad of health issues.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »Despite misinformation, good choice to give up sodas. One fact about phosphoric acid in dark sodas that I always found interesting is that it's literally dangerous for dialysis patients to drink. Healthy kidneys can process additional phosphorus, but once you have kidney failure, it can't get rid of it, causing phosphorus to build up in the blood, which will cause hyperphosphatemia. Then again, many foods have phosphorus in it and your body actually needs it, but not as much as a processed diet will give you.
This is useful information for people with bad kidneys. My kidneys are fine.
I think it's useful information for anyone. Everyone is healthy until they are not.
Avoiding peanuts isn't just good advice for people with a peanut allergy, because everyone is healthy until they're not.
Don't compare apples to oranges. If you paid attention to my original post, I'm not bashing phosphorus, just that there's too much of it in processed food, leading to possible future kidney issues.
Phosphorus doesn't cause kidney diseases, but people with kidney disease need to pay attention to their phosphorus intake.
Peanuts don't cause peanut allergies, but people with an allergy need to pay attention to their intake.
Too much phosphorous can be toxic, not just to people with kidney disease.
So can too much water.
I never said it didn't, but you need water to live. You don't need soda.
Are you saying you have eliminated everything that may be harmful in excess if you don't require it in order to survive?
I give up. If people don't bother to read my original post or misunderstand what I was saying, that's your own problem. I stated it was a fact I found to be interesting. Nothing more. I don't know why so many people are defending soda.
I'm not defending soda (it's irrelevant to me whether or not people want to drink it) as much as challenging what looks like misinformation. There are lots of things that people with specific illnesses or conditions should avoid. It doesn't logically follow that everyone else must avoid them. And there are lots of things that are harmful in excess that aren't necessary for us to consume. But most of us adopt the practice of understanding the level of consumption where harm can take place and keeping our consumption below that instead of totally eliminating it from our diet.
Looking at the harm caused by *too much* of something isn't a helpful way to determine whether we should eliminate something from our diets.
Isn't the purpose of this website to keep in check what we all have too much of? I don't see anything wrong with a soda every now and then, hell I just had a mountain dew this morning, but I don't see anything wrong with someone believing it's not the best thing for their bodies, and therefore choosing not to drink it and asking for support.
I don't see anything wrong with someone deciding not to drink soda. I do see something wrong with pseudoscience or non-factual information being promoted as if it is truthful. Drink soda or don't -- it's irrelevant to me.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw&sns=em
I think this video goes a great job handling all the "new" scientific findings. Its a bit long, but its funny.3 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.0 -
sunfastrose wrote: »
Define "high in sugar." Do you eat a lot of fruit? Do you drink a lot soda, or eat a couple cookies a day/week? A person may lose weight while having a diet high in sugar, I even did it for a while, I would drink a lot of cool-aid, loaded with sugar. But what is that sugar doing to our bodies?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.0 -
sunfastrose wrote: »
Define "high in sugar." Do you eat a lot of fruit? Do you drink a lot soda, or eat a couple cookies a day/week? A person may lose weight while having a diet high in sugar, I even did it for a while, I would drink a lot of cool-aid, loaded with sugar. But what is that sugar doing to our bodies?
Are you asking someone else to explain what happens when one eats at a deficit, but also eats a "high" amount of sugar?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.
Can you give an example of a "processed food" that makes one "fat and sick" (which was your initial claim) even if it is consumed in the context of a balanced diet?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »sunfastrose wrote: »
Define "high in sugar." Do you eat a lot of fruit? Do you drink a lot soda, or eat a couple cookies a day/week? A person may lose weight while having a diet high in sugar, I even did it for a while, I would drink a lot of cool-aid, loaded with sugar. But what is that sugar doing to our bodies?
Are you asking someone else to explain what happens when one eats at a deficit, but also eats a "high" amount of sugar?
No, it was a hypothetical question. Sorry if it didn't come across as such. The problem is people assume they are healthy just because they are losing weight, but they are not taking into consideration the effects that food is having on their body. Being thin does not equal being healthy. A diet high in sugar is not healthy, nor is a diet, high in protein, or any other macro. Their has to be a healthy balance, and variety in that person's diet.4 -
I use to drink 2 2 liter bottles of dr. pepper or mountain dew a day when I was younger. I mostly drank only soda. I didn't drink water. I was always getting UTI's and migraines. As I got older I started drinking more water but still drank a lot of soda. Finally after I developed lots of stomach problems I gave it up completely because I can't do carbonation anymore because I have a hard time getting rid of gas and bloating and also because caffeine doesn't help my IBS. So now I drink mostly water with occasional tea. If I do cheat and have a soda, which is very rarely, it is just a root beer. I have kept up with it for a long time now. So I have faith in you!3
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janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.
Can you give an example of a "processed food" that makes one "fat and sick" (which was your initial claim) even if it is consumed in the context of a balanced diet?
What? Are you expecting me to say that this specific 'processed food' will make you fat and sick? Thats not what I meant. The Western diet contains a high amount of heavily Processed Foods, which generally contain high amounts of added sugar/HFCS (like soda), and very little fibre and nutrients. It is a proven fact that high amounts of sugar in a diet can lead to all sorts of health issues, including diabetes. Processed Foods usually contain a lot of artificial substances, like colourants (which have been linked to hyperactivity in Children). Theres also MSG, salt, refined carbs and trans fat.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.
No, it's some weird made-up MFP definition that does violence to the actual meaning of the words chosen.
Here's something: http://www.foodinsight.org/sites/default/files/what-is-a-processed-food.pdf1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.
Can you give an example of a "processed food" that makes one "fat and sick" (which was your initial claim) even if it is consumed in the context of a balanced diet?
What? Are you expecting me to say that this specific 'processed food' will make you fat and sick? Thats not what I meant. The Western diet contains a high amount of heavily Processed Foods, which generally contain high amounts of added sugar/HFCS (like soda), and very little fibre and nutrients. It is a proven fact that high amounts of sugar in a diet can lead to all sorts of health issues, including diabetes. Processed Foods usually contain a lot of artificial substances, like colourants (which have been linked to hyperactivity in Children). Theres also MSG, salt, refined carbs and trans fat.
So when you wrote "Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick," you actually meant that "a high amount of heavily Processed foods" will lead to health issues? Your initial statement made it sound as if processed foods would make obesity and sickness inevitable, regardless of the context of a person's diet. Is that what you think?
Do you think "heavily processed food" (whatever that is) will harm someone if that person is meeting their nutritional needs in the context of their overall diet?4 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
Everyone who is successfully losing weight is in a calorie deficit, reducing sugar or not.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
I don't know what you mean by "chemically processed," but the definition of "processed foods" is extremely broad and includes many foods that are stereotypically healthful (bagged spinach, frozen vegetables, fava beans that are ready to be heated up, canned beans). Others are more "refined" (both whole grain and white pasta) but can be the basis of a very healthful meal. One staple for me if I get home late and need to cook something quickly is to make pasta (I usually use whole wheat), and while I'm doing that I add some olive oil to a pan (processed food), and then add a bunch of vegetables depending on what I have available -- asparagus, cauliflower, zucchini all work well, and I'll often add spinach (even from a bag -- more processed), plus smoked salmon (processed), maybe some olives (typically processed--we don't normally eat raw olives from a tree). I'll add the pasta and mix it around in a bowl and then finish with some feta (processed). Delicious, and almost no added sugar, despite all the processed foods I am using. I might eat some cottage cheese on the side for a bit more protein too -- again, processed food, no added sugar.
I know that processed foods is a broad term, as most foods are processed in some way, but I was referring to foods that have been chemically processed and made solely from refined ingredients and artificial substances, like preservatives, colourants, flavourings . This is what is generally considered as 'Processed Foods'.
No, it's really not, which is why I am always confused by the generalizations that get made about processed foods or claims that they are inherently unhealthy or contain lots of sugar or whatever.
Yes it is. When people say Processed Foods, they generally mean the chemically-processed foods (which have artificial substances added in), that I referred to. That is the general consensus as to what 'Processed Foods' means.
Can you give an example of a "processed food" that makes one "fat and sick" (which was your initial claim) even if it is consumed in the context of a balanced diet?
What? Are you expecting me to say that this specific 'processed food' will make you fat and sick? Thats not what I meant. The Western diet contains a high amount of heavily Processed Foods, which generally contain high amounts of added sugar/HFCS (like soda), and very little fibre and nutrients. It is a proven fact that high amounts of sugar in a diet can lead to all sorts of health issues, including diabetes. Processed Foods usually contain a lot of artificial substances, like colourants (which have been linked to hyperactivity in Children). Theres also MSG, salt, refined carbs and trans fat.
Sugar alone does not lead to diabetes.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
Everyone who is successfully losing weight is in a calorie deficit, reducing sugar or not.
Congratulations, you can regurgitated the same information you've been saying throughout the thread. Losing weight isn't just tied eating a deficit, there is work behind it, lifting weights for example. However, weight loss should be done by eating less food, and working out more. The food should be low in sugar, and a variety of meat, carbs, fat, nuts, etc. You shouldn't just reduce your calories and expect to lose weight and keep it off.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
Everyone who is successfully losing weight is in a calorie deficit, reducing sugar or not.
Congratulations, you can regurgitated the same information you've been saying throughout the thread. Losing weight isn't just tied eating a deficit, there is work behind it, lifting weights for example. However, weight loss should be done by eating less food, and working out more. The food should be low in sugar, and a variety of meat, carbs, fat, nuts, etc. You shouldn't just reduce your calories and expect to lose weight and keep it off.
Lifting weights is great for health and fitness, but it's optional for losing weight. You CAN expect to lose weight and keep it off through a calorie deficit. You don't need a diet that is low in sugar and you don't need to eat a variety of foods.
There may be important health related reasons to do those things, but if you're talking about weight loss, it's the calories that count.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
Everyone who is successfully losing weight is in a calorie deficit, reducing sugar or not.
Congratulations, you can regurgitated the same information you've been saying throughout the thread. Losing weight isn't just tied eating a deficit, there is work behind it, lifting weights for example. However, weight loss should be done by eating less food, and working out more. The food should be low in sugar, and a variety of meat, carbs, fat, nuts, etc. You shouldn't just reduce your calories and expect to lose weight and keep it off.
But that is exactly what I did and I have kept it off. I ate less food regardless of macro make up.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Health problems later in life can easily be prevented now, and a decreased consumption of processed foods will help the odds of you not dying a slow painful death. No guarantee, but what's the harm in trying? Health isn't always just about having six pack abs.
Processed foods are not evil either. They don't make you sick any more than any other single food item will, see "drinking too much water can kill you". For your health, as has been shown time and time again, becoming a healthy body weight and bodyfat percentage is the best thing you can do, it will improve basically all health markers and severely cut down on your CVD and diabetes risk, which in turn cuts down your kidney disease risk.
We have so many people on here who don't demonize anything and incorporate any foods they like into a healthy overall diet, including processed foods and they don't just look good with six pack abs, they have the health to show for it too that comes with not being overweight and living an active lifestyle.
Processed foods, as in chemically processed and made from refined ingredients, are bad and do make you fat and sick. It's not hard to find the evidence... Just take a look at the amount of obese people in the western world, and the western diet! Processed foods are usually high in sugar/HFCS, contain all sorts of artificial ingredients, can become addictive, and are often high in refined carbs. They are not healthy, and should not be consumed frequently. Yes it's hard to avoid them, but when we replace real foods with processed junk foods, we do get fat and sick. It's fact.
The only thing that can make you fat is excessive calories.
THAT is a fact.
Sure, only excessive calories will make you fat...But what happens if you eat a diet with a deficit in calories, but high in sugar? I can't see how that is long sustainable for anyone. Even if we do eat in a deficit in calories, which I doubt many people actually do, sugar is what we should be worried about. I for one, try to avoid sugar as often as I can. I may not be able to avoid processed foods all the time, but I can at least keep sugar out of my diet (except for fruit).
Everyone who is successfully losing weight is in a calorie deficit, reducing sugar or not.
Congratulations, you can regurgitated the same information you've been saying throughout the thread. Losing weight isn't just tied eating a deficit, there is work behind it, lifting weights for example. However, weight loss should be done by eating less food, and working out more. The food should be low in sugar, and a variety of meat, carbs, fat, nuts, etc. You shouldn't just reduce your calories and expect to lose weight and keep it off.
You don't need any of that just to lose weight (and by weight I mean fat because I know that's the next thing you were going to say) and keep it off.
Calorie deficit is the bottom line. Everything else is nice little extras to make it easier for some people and to make you look a bit better when you're nearing your goals.2
This discussion has been closed.
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