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The Sugar Conspiracy
Replies
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pcoslady83 wrote: »pcoslady83 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »It's not remotely the same, it's dumb people want to pretend it's the same.
Sure, some people might benefit from cutting out added sugar or low carbing. Others find they do better getting over the idea that some foods are "bad."
What is dumb is your absolute belief that only you are correct and every one else who think otherwise are stupid.
You'll notice that she didn't call anyone dumb, like you did. She said the belief that sugar is addictive is dumb.
I didn't call her dumb. I called her belief dumb.
Then I misread you.
I will never understand people who have decided that food has this much power over them, and it certainly isn't for lack of trying.
You can read what I wrote once more..
I don't understand how people are addicted to alcohol or smoking. I cannot understand why they need rehab or a support group to quit drinking when I cannot finish a glass of wine or stand the smell of smoke. That is completely okay. What I do understand if they need assistance to quit is that they have a legitimate problem which is beyond my understanding and experience. I don't degrade them by saying that it was their decision to give more power to the substance they are abusing and if they tried hard enough on their own, they would get over it.3 -
pcoslady83 wrote: »pcoslady83 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »It's not remotely the same, it's dumb people want to pretend it's the same.
Sure, some people might benefit from cutting out added sugar or low carbing. Others find they do better getting over the idea that some foods are "bad."
What is dumb is your absolute belief that only you are correct and every one else who think otherwise are stupid.
You'll notice that she didn't call anyone dumb, like you did. She said the belief that sugar is addictive is dumb.
I didn't call her dumb. I called her belief dumb.
Then I misread you.
I will never understand people who have decided that food has this much power over them, and it certainly isn't for lack of trying.
Also..by the way..many people as soon as they recognize that sugar triggers addictive behavior do try moderating it. When it fails, they abstain from it. That is how they "decide" gain control over something that is just not working for them. So they try and in most cases are successful as well.3 -
I know two people at work who've 'quit' sugar (with no medical reason - purely in the the hope to lose weight), and guess what, they are still fat.1
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pcoslady83 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »pcoslady83 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I honestly don't know what to say to drive my point home..
Send a "Sugar addict" into a rehab facility full of heroin addicts and alcoholics. Watch them climbing the walls, vomiting profusely, the feelings of bugs crawling under their skin, the days and days and days of NO sleep,see their total mental and physical torture and the fact that they would do ANYTHING in that moment to get a fix..
Then come back and tell me your sugar cravings are comparable to what these people are going through!!
What is your opinion on smoking? Is that addictive? I have seen people trying to quit smoking having a hard time but definitely not as hard as you are explaining here. But it is still considered an addiction.
I've quit smoking too. I got a bit snappy and impatient and really really craved a cigarette every minute of the day, but it was bearable. Mind over matter and extreme willpower, pretty much the same way i deal with sweet cravings.
And no, quitting smoking is nothing like coming off of narcotics.
Sure..quitting cigarettes may not come close to quitting narcotics. But is smoking still considered an addiction?
You had enough will power to quit smoking and control your sugar cravings, the same can be extended and said that if some one had enough will power they could have come off narcotics or alcohol too.
At least for me, sugar triggers addictive behaviors. I have had nights where I couldn't sleep until I ate the last cookie, I have felt bad while eating that cookie and I have wept after eating that because I knew that I shouldn't eat it. Your experience may be different with sugar. As per the severity, it may not come close to narcotics, nicotine or even alcohol, but it is still more than just will power (for me).
I have seen a person who had addiction to lemons of all things. Her teeth got eroded with acid exposure and had to get dentures and had to be in therapy to stop the behavior. Now, I don't know if citric acid is proven as addictive. But I cannot just dismiss her experience as a matter of willpower.
You guys can't go around saying sugar is more addictive than heroin, citing faulty rat studies, then when someone points out how ridiculous it is you're backtracking talking about smoking instead.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »dietitianwithoutborders.com/what-are-free-sugars/
"WHAT ARE FREE SUGARS?
July 27, 2015 By Gemma Sampson RD APD 5 Comments
The Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN) recently released a report in the UK on Carbohydrates where they gave new recommendations in line with WHO that free sugar intake should account for no more than 5% of daily energy intake.
The WHO 5% is an aspirational goal, 10% is their current view of a limit. With many eating less than the limit the population average will fall below 10%.
Here's a period of UK data showing the "added sugars" and obesity trends, the drift down in sugar consumption has been going on for quite a long time while obesity has increased :-
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister.
BINGO! This gives the issue some much needed perspective. Thank you!
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister.
BINGO! This gives the issue some much needed perspective. Thank you!
Agreed.
I'd also like to note that I live near a bakery, and yet this is still quite a nice neighborhood. Hmm.4 -
Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.4 -
Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
The reason it needs to be discussed and the differences made clear is that many people feel helpless to their sugar 'addiction." Realizing that it's not an addiction in the true sense that heroin is an addiction can be very empowering. Helps people stop feeling like a victim and lets them begin to take control of their situation. Perspective and reality are important. In life and in weight management. 11 -
Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
It can be discussed in a way that is respectful to people. I could go to an extreme and compare the sugar industry to hitler for "killing so many people with their devious fattening schemes" or some *kitten*, would you tell people who don't like that comparison to go to a historian forum?3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister. 0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
It can be discussed in a way that is respectful to people. I could go to an extreme and compare the sugar industry to hitler for "killing so many people with their devious fattening schemes" or some *kitten*, would you tell people who don't like that comparison to go to a historian forum?
Good approach.
Interesting reaction to Naziism by a later generatiom was in Deuschland:1983. I highly recommend that series.1 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
The reason it needs to be discussed and the differences made clear is that many people feel helpless to their sugar 'addiction." Realizing that it's not an addiction in the true sense that heroin is an addiction can be very empowering. Helps people stop feeling like a victim and lets them begin to take control of their situation. Perspective and reality are important. In life and in weight management.
Knowing that my response to some foods is a physical thing makes it so, so, so much easier to work around and live a normal life. I can't even imagine where I'd be if I was stuck spinning my wheels journaling my feelings to trying to figure out what's wrong with me, locking up food in the trunk of my car, spending my day food obsessed and waiting for a treat at the end of the day to keep my on track and make my life worth living or eating all day long for fear of what I'd do if I allowed myself to get hungry -- or any of the other little rituals I read about everyday on this site.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'm thankful everyday I found out what was wrong with me. I know the majority of you mean well but you're doing a real disservice to some of the people dealing with this issue by insisting it isn't a thing and shutting them down when they reach out for help.4 -
It wouldn't be a thing if it was purely psychological? What part of sugar is physically addictive and do you eat fruits and vegetables? Who has been shut down?5
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Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
It's not food addiction that's insulting. It's comparing something that occurs in fruit and vegetables which everyone consumes everyday to a poison on a par with cocaine. Food addiction is real, psychological addiction is real. If anyone is upset their food addiction is psychological they need to reassess their view of mental health.7 -
paulgads82 wrote: »Ugh, the lack of I don't know what you would call it is disgusting.
If an addict is insulted by food addiction, that's on them. This is a calorie counting site. Plenty of forums exist for drug and alcohol addiction. There are no rules on MFP that say food addiction can't be discussed.
It's not food addiction that's insulting. It's comparing something that occurs in fruit and vegetables which everyone consumes everyday to a poison on a par with cocaine. Food addiction is real, psychological addiction is real. If anyone is upset their food addiction is psychological they need to reassess their view of mental health.
Not only that sugars occur naturally in fruits and vegetables, but that your body needs it to survive, and if someone were able to completely "quit sugar" (which I don't think is even possible) your body has mechanisms to produce it on its own.
That is why it is different than narcotics, nicotine, or even alcohol. It is literally necessary for your body to survive, unlike any of those other substances.
That people cannot understand this, and think that it is only added sugars that are bad and addictive when fruits and vegetables are ok, boggles my mind. Or that people think they can be addicted to peanut M&Ms but not every substance that has any sugar in it.... That's not an addiction. That's a trigger food. Sure, that exists and lots of people have them. That doesn't make sugar addictive.
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paulgads82 wrote: »It wouldn't be a thing if it was purely psychological? What part of sugar is physically addictive and do you eat fruits and vegetables? Who has been shut down?
I think psychological and physical problems respond best to different strategies. I have no idea if sugar is addictive or not. I answered the fruit and vegetable question back on page 8 of this thread.
As for the who's been shut down? I have no response to that. lol2 -
I quit smoking and drinking quickly, painlessly and happily. Perhaps you guys are the whiners?3
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Whatever works, works. It just seems incredibly inaccurate to compare it to actual drugs, given it's an energy source, in most foods and vital for the body to function. It renders the term drug or poison virtually meaningless. People can develop unhealthy relationships with exercise, it alters brain chemistry and gives people a high. Exercise is not a drug. Same with meditation. Same with getting your groove on. Same with sugar.2
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eveandqsmom wrote: »I quit smoking and drinking quickly, painlessly and happily. Perhaps you guys are the whiners?
Bully for you.2 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister.
I'm really sorry to hear this story, it is heartbreaking. The differences in the story, however, is the legality and availability of the substance. Of course it would be ridiculous to prostitute yourself for sugar when it is readily available in your own cupboards.
People do steal food/sugar/starchy shite, they do great harm to themselves with it. People lose limbs, eyesight, go into comas and still can't stop themselves. If that's not an addiction, I don't know what is.5 -
eveandqsmom wrote: »I quit smoking and drinking quickly, painlessly and happily. Perhaps you guys are the whiners?
Who is whining? I keep belaboring this point, I know, but I feel like this thread has been largely respectful and has provided some great perspective from people who advocate for sugar in moderation as well as those who try to abstain or restrict added sugars more stringently. Every so often people chime in on this thread from their personal view of the world but don't seem to have read through all the comments and realized many of the points have been discussed already.
That is frustrating but I don't think people are whining...
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I think many people have insinuated that people who claim sugar is an addiction are whiners3
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Isn't there at least one Addiction thread for those who give a kitten about that, like http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10388272/addiction-versus-dependence/ the OP wasn't about that.2
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eveandqsmom wrote: »I think many people have insinuated that people who claim sugar is an addiction are whiners
I certainly don't. It's not on par with drug addiction but I definitely don't think people aren't suffering. I've struggled with food so would be a hypocrite to say it isn't difficult.0 -
eveandqsmom wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister.
I'm really sorry to hear this story, it is heartbreaking. The differences in the story, however, is the legality and availability of the substance. Of course it would be ridiculous to prostitute yourself for sugar when it is readily available in your own cupboards.
People do steal food/sugar/starchy shite, they do great harm to themselves with it. People lose limbs, eyesight, go into comas and still can't stop themselves. If that's not an addiction, I don't know what is.
Yes but the debate is whether sugar is the addictive part or whether the addiction is psychological and sugar an arbitrary trigger.1 -
That sounds an awful lot like semantics to me.3
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Edit: ignore bad editing.0
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eveandqsmom wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Once upon a time, a man decided to deal sugar to his community. His home became one of the most frequented sugar houses in the city.
His daughter became a sugar addict and was so hooked that she began doing anything she could for a sugar fix. She stole, prostituted herself...she was serving a prison sentence when she gave birth to her little girl.
Because she couldn't raise her daughter in prison, her sugar dealing parents raised her in their sugar house. The little girl saw all the things you'd expect to see in a sugar house. Robberies, prostitution, sugar abuse...
The little girl's mom never stayed out of prison for long, always going back after getting caught prostituting herself or robbing others to get more sugar money.
At the age of just nine years old, the little girl was the responsible one in the house, watching the addicts to make sure no one overdosed on sugar.
Then one day the police came in a series of raids. In the fifth raid they found the sugar they were looking for.
Because the little girl was in the home when the grandparents were busted with the sugar, she was removed from their custody.
By God's grace, a series of circumstances brought the little girl to a small local church. God placed it in the hearts of a family in that church to take that little girl in as their own.
Her past life in the sugar world is just a distant memory now, a whole different world.
With a lot of help, discipline, prayer and love, she's become a permanent member of her new family and grown into a balanced, well adjusted, beautiful young lady.
This story has a happy ending but the pain that sugar caused this little girl is still very real and the sad truth is that most little girls trapped in the world of sugar don't get such a happy ending.
Sounds completely ridiculous and absurd doesn't it?
That's because it is.
Now exchange the word "sugar" for "heroin."
Not absurd anymore.
That's why the ridiculous claims that sugar is addictive like drugs and just as hard to quit, blah blah blah, just make me want to scream and punch a hole in the wall.
Btw,
The little girl is my adopted baby sister.
I'm really sorry to hear this story, it is heartbreaking. The differences in the story, however, is the legality and availability of the substance. Of course it would be ridiculous to prostitute yourself for sugar when it is readily available in your own cupboards.
People do steal food/sugar/starchy shite, they do great harm to themselves with it. People lose limbs, eyesight, go into comas and still can't stop themselves. If that's not an addiction, I don't know what is.
Exactly. Sugar is not a banned substance and it is cheap, readily available. Why would any one go to jail for consuming a legal substance. The story is heart breaking and I am glad that the poster's sister found a loving and safe home.0 -
It's a scientific debate, semantics are important. I think we are all just geeks who like debating
But its also important in the context of the idea of a sugar conspiracy, or whatever. Are corporate interests feeding us an addictive substance or is sugar just really tasty and some of us develop unhealthy relationships with it? Obviously i support the latter explanation.9
This discussion has been closed.
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