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The Sugar Conspiracy
masterwilde
Posts: 34 Member
in Debate Club
So firstly here is the link for you to read yourselves:-
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
Its definitely interesting reading, let me have your thoughts please
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
Its definitely interesting reading, let me have your thoughts please
2
Replies
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Quack.
+ I wonder what or which food will be next on the vilification list? It seems that we always need a big bad wolf.21 -
This guy is full of crap. He's a known nut.20
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There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.86 -
Have a read of a counter-point to Lustig's nonsense....
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/20 -
masterwilde wrote: »So firstly here is the link for you to read yourselves:-
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
Its definitely interesting reading, let me have your thoughts please
I thought this was better: http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/#!Ancel-Keys-and-the-Seven-Country-Study-A-Response-to-The-Sugar-Conspiracy/cmbz/570ed1910cf20b4e25a4d9f26 -
stevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
So much this.6 -
stevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
This.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
Nailed it!!6 -
It's not often one sees the word "humbug' used.....
huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/sugar-health-evil-toxic_b_850032.html7 -
Lol at conspiracy. How about................"damn, am I eating too many calories?"
Here's a conspiracy: The oil companies paying contract developers and urban cities money to build homes further away from industries of work so that people pay more money for gas commuting.
Not saying it's true, just something that people who believe in conspiracies bring up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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stevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
14 -
Sugar tastes good. Ask monkeysstevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 6 -
The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
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I think as soon as one posits a conspiracy one has lost the debate.9
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Eat sugar. It's amazing.7
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The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
The problem is not just sugar. Its when you combine high amounts of sugar with fats and salt. Its sad that we identify one part of the issue. And while drinks are all sugar, the majority of people i know that over ate had a plethora of food combinations to lead to that. I got fat on burgers, pizza, cheese steaks and much more fatty and salty items as opposed to sugar. Not to say that sugar wasnt a component, but it wasnt the largest.6 -
bahahahahahaha and the sugar wars rage on...never change MFP, never change....8
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stevencloser wrote: »There is indeed a sugar conspiracy. That is, there's a handful of people who make a lot of money by telling desperate dieters that sugar is the root of their obesity instead of longterm overeating.
They abuse the fact that many people try to look for an outside reason for why they're not successful instead of looking within themselves. It's the perfect scapegoat. A nutrient that tastes good, that we're evolutionarily inclined to seek out, often found in "bad/ junk" foods. It's easy making people who don't know all facts about how weight gain and loss works believe it somehow is addictive or making them fat regardless of overall diet.
+ 1000..
you can't make millions of dollars telling people sugar is OK, so instead fear monger them to death into buying books about ridiculous topics like sugar addiction, sugar is satan, etc, etc...18 -
The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.21 -
stevencloser wrote: »Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yes, this.
I love food. I love some foods that have added sugar. I don't particularly favor foods with added sugar and if I could never eat those foods again but had no need to restrict calories, my overall calories would not change, as I could so easily find other delicious foods to eat instead. I found this when I cut out added sugar for a while--it was no hardship at all to eat high quality cheese after dinner instead of ice cream. There also was no calorie advantage in doing so. ;-)4 -
The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
The problem is not just sugar. Its when you combine high amounts of sugar with fats and salt. Its sad that we identify one part of the issue. And while drinks are all sugar, the majority of people i know that over ate had a plethora of food combinations to lead to that. I got fat on burgers, pizza, cheese steaks and much more fatty and salty items as opposed to sugar. Not to say that sugar wasnt a component, but it wasnt the largest.
I'm sure fat and sugar and salt is the main issue for many. For me it was sugar. Jujubes, jelly beans and soda were my foods that I ate too much of. I did not over eat fries, chips, pizza or whatever. It was sugar for me.7 -
I guess overeating as the culprit just isn't sexy enough? Why make the same mistake that was made with demonizing saturated fats with sugar?16
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I thought what nvmomketo posted made sense. She stated that she realized on a technical level she gained weight from eating too many calories. But from what I understood, it was refined carbs and sugars that she was eating large amounts of, with more normal portions of other foods.stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
In regards to the "readily converted to sugar" phrase, I think the issue is that, as she mentioned, IR is a problem for many people. For those without IR, that issue may not have much relevance. But a sizable portion of the general population is at least partially IR, so it's bad for a significant number of people. Again, her point is that it's bad for some people, not everyone.
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stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
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stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
I'd say if your overeating of cheese and nuts makes you skip a meal later on to still fit IT IS A PROBLEM.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
I'd say if your overeating of cheese and nuts makes you skip a meal later on to still fit IT IS A PROBLEM.
I don't know about that. It's about the equivalent of someone saving room/calories at a healthy meal so they can still have dessert. I highly doubt nuts or cheese is problem alternative. A cup of nuts at 3:00 is not really less healthy than a steak and broccoli with cheese sauce at 5:00.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
I'd say if your overeating of cheese and nuts makes you skip a meal later on to still fit IT IS A PROBLEM.
I don't know about that. It's about the equivalent of someone saving room/calories at a healthy meal so they can still have dessert. I highly doubt nuts or cheese is problem alternative. A cup of nuts at 3:00 is not really less healthy than a steak and broccoli with cheese sauce at 5:00.
It's gonna have different nutrients.
But I know for a FACT, that if someone posted they regularly reduce their dinner calories or completely skip it so they can eat more twinkies during the day, people on here would be all up in that.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
I'd say you skipping meals because you overate cheese or nuts IS a problem in itself. And if I were to subscribe to the idea of certain foods being addicting, that would apply more to the idea than sugar that you just cut out no problem.
I don't completely agree with your edited response either.
Addiction? Lets not go there right now.
I said sugar was a problem for me. Nuts and cheese are not. I can, and have cut those from my diet in the past for health reasons and experimentation. Today I choose to eat them and some days I choose to eat a fair amount of them. My health is fine and I am successfully maintaining a 40lb loss for 6+ months now. I don't see those foods as a problem for me.
Now for other who did get fat because they overate nuts and cheese. Sure, that's a problem for them.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »The people who seem to be against the idea that sugar can be a problem for people seem to be those for whom sugar has never been a problem. It didn't happen to me so I don't believe it, and that's where Lustig exaggerated: Sugar is not a problem for everybody, but it is a problem for many. Just because the nutrition powers of yesteryear had fat labelled as the nutritional problem child in the 80s, it does not mean that sugar has been mislabelled as a problem nutrient ( or as the scapegoat) today. It IS a problem for some.
Looking within myself did not help me lose weight. The minute I dropped sugar and reduced my carbs I lost weight. Easily and lots of it. You bet I was eating too many calories but I was eating too much because of sugar (and partially due to those carbs which are readily converted to sugar). I didn't have to do any soul searching or suddenly develop great will power in order to lose weight; all I had to do was cut sugar out of my diet and I was much less hungry, I lost my cravings, and the slight thermogenic poperties of a very LCHF diet helped a bit too.
I also love cheese and nuts and overeat those pretty regularly but that's not what made me fat either. Candy, soda, muffins, and unneeded carby plate fillers made me fat. I cut those and replaced them with other macro nutrients (at a slight caloric deficit) and lost weight. Simply cutting calories was not sustainable for more that a week or two for me. Cut sugar too? Suddenly it was easy to lose. It may not be true for all, but it was for me and it is true for many, especially those of us with IR issues (known and undiagnosed). I am not a special snowflake here.
Sure, many people are fine with eating sugar but many aren't. I was fine with sugar until I approached 40, when suddenly I was not. Stating sugar is a problem for all is wrong, and Lustig should stop it. Staing that sugar is NOT a problem for all is just as wrong - claiming it is a scapegoat is incorrect. A better statement might be that sugar is not a problem for some people, although it may become a problem for some of them later, and that it is indeed a problem for some people right now (somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 it appears to me based on those affected with IR issues like NAFLD, T2D, PCOS, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, as well as some of those who find weight loss difficult without sugar reduction - not a tiny group).
... This thread should probably be moved to the debate section.
"Readily converted to sugar" is another of those phrases that is used to fear monger against it, as if that makes it bad somehow.
You're outright denying in your post that things apart from carbs made you fat. "Oh, I've been overeating this and that and X and Y and Z regularly too but that wasn't the problem, no.". I call BS. If you've been overeating you've been overeating them and they were part of the problem.
I used to eat lots of sugar.
And lots of fat.
And probably protein too.
Like 4+ ham and cheese sandwiches as a single meal? Check.
Wieners with a bunch of fries? Yeah, did that.
Pizza and whatnot? Yup. All lots of it and not a single gram of added sugar. Cutting out sugar would have changed nothing at all, because I like eating. I would have just eaten something else instead.
Yeah no. I can still each 4 oz of cheese in a day and not gain weight. I do it often. Too often, but I can cut other foods from my diet when I do it. I had 4oz of cheese for lunch? Okay, I'll eat less at dinner. No problem. I had a cup of macadamia nuts with coconut for an afternoon "snack". I'll skip dinner. I had a large soda or a bag of jelly bellies? I'm still hungry and I find it harder to regulate my food intake. I can be sure that I'll be hungry for dinner even after a family sized bag of candy.
I tend to overeat cheese more now since I eat lower carb. I don't eat candy or soda any longer. Even though I overeat in one food it does not mean I overeat my caloric totals for the day. I consider it to be overeating in cheese when it slows my bms for day. LOL
Pizza? If I eat 4 pieces I am quite full and I stop. Angel food cake? I can eat the whole thing and look for more. We react differently to different foods. Sugar isn't a problem for you. Great. It's egocentric to assume one's experience is true for everyone.
I'd say if your overeating of cheese and nuts makes you skip a meal later on to still fit IT IS A PROBLEM.
I don't know about that. It's about the equivalent of someone saving room/calories at a healthy meal so they can still have dessert. I highly doubt nuts or cheese is problem alternative. A cup of nuts at 3:00 is not really less healthy than a steak and broccoli with cheese sauce at 5:00.
It's gonna have different nutrients.
But I know for a FACT, that if someone posted they regularly reduce their dinner calories or completely skip it so they can eat more twinkies during the day, people on here would be all up in that.
Again, Twinkies are different than a bowl of macadamia nuts with coconut... At least in my eyes.
ETA that most meals do have different nutrients.4
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