If Ketogenic diet is the answer to all our problems-why is still based around caloric values?

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  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
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    Considering the actual question, the thread title is super confusing, which I guess explains the incredibly wide range of responses.
  • allierose91610
    allierose91610 Posts: 5 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.

    @viren19890 most books are like that. Some of us convert carbs to fat very well so the <50 grams works for us. Most whole foods contain fiber, minerals, vitamins which may not be the case with highly processed food that has chemically been altered. Few people think fresh meat is worse for health than a cheap hot dog.

    If you find a way of eating that is interesting give it a try for 90 days is you wish and decide what your body is telling to about that way of eating and go from that point.

    One does not simply
    convert carbs to fat in a calorie deficit.

    I see what you did there.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
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    FeedMeFish wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    There is no such thing as good or bad carbs. They are just carbs.

    I think they're referring to simple vs complex carbs. Simple carbs are found in refined flours, white rice, table sugar, most desserts, etc. Complex are oats, whole wheat/grains, vegetables, etc (commonly consumed by us who do intense strength training and/or sprints). In terms of CICO carbs are carbs but if you want better body composition, I'd suggest less junk food and more nutrient dense foods. This is exactly how my weight lifting friends (guys and girls) and I leaned out. Two of us actually (a female friend and I) were previously skinny-fat because we mostly ate unhealthy foods. Yes CICO is important but in terms of body comp, so are nutrients.

    I agree on good nutrition for overall health, but there still are no good and bad carbs. It's all just food.

    You don't get skinny-fat from eating "unhealthy foods," you get skinny fat from losing weight too quickly and doing things like progressive weight lifting while eating at a deficit. Of course nutrition is important in this process, but all foods in moderation. :)
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
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    SLLRunner wrote: »
    FeedMeFish wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    There is no such thing as good or bad carbs. They are just carbs.

    I think they're referring to simple vs complex carbs. Simple carbs are found in refined flours, white rice, table sugar, most desserts, etc. Complex are oats, whole wheat/grains, vegetables, etc (commonly consumed by us who do intense strength training and/or sprints). In terms of CICO carbs are carbs but if you want better body composition, I'd suggest less junk food and more nutrient dense foods. This is exactly how my weight lifting friends (guys and girls) and I leaned out. Two of us actually (a female friend and I) were previously skinny-fat because we mostly ate unhealthy foods. Yes CICO is important but in terms of body comp, so are nutrients.

    I agree on good nutrition for overall health, but there still are no good and bad carbs. It's all just food.

    You don't get skinny-fat from eating "unhealthy foods," you get skinny fat from losing weight too quickly and doing things like progressive weight lifting while eating at a deficit. Of course nutrition is important in this process, but all foods in moderation. :)

    This is so hard to explain to others as I have learned. TBH its like people who believe in superstition and explaining to them is extremely hard, it's the same thing with explaining the concept of no good or bad food. Plus then most of the websites would confirm their way of thinking as well.

    Media really did a number on all of us. Unless a person goes on a healthy weight loss journey -they cannot truly take this concept out.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
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    viren19890 wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    FeedMeFish wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    There is no such thing as good or bad carbs. They are just carbs.

    I think they're referring to simple vs complex carbs. Simple carbs are found in refined flours, white rice, table sugar, most desserts, etc. Complex are oats, whole wheat/grains, vegetables, etc (commonly consumed by us who do intense strength training and/or sprints). In terms of CICO carbs are carbs but if you want better body composition, I'd suggest less junk food and more nutrient dense foods. This is exactly how my weight lifting friends (guys and girls) and I leaned out. Two of us actually (a female friend and I) were previously skinny-fat because we mostly ate unhealthy foods. Yes CICO is important but in terms of body comp, so are nutrients.

    I agree on good nutrition for overall health, but there still are no good and bad carbs. It's all just food.

    You don't get skinny-fat from eating "unhealthy foods," you get skinny fat from losing weight too quickly and doing things like progressive weight lifting while eating at a deficit. Of course nutrition is important in this process, but all foods in moderation. :)

    This is so hard to explain to others as I have learned. TBH its like people who believe in superstition and explaining to them is extremely hard, it's the same thing with explaining the concept of no good or bad food. Plus then most of the websites would confirm their way of thinking as well.

    Media really did a number on all of us. Unless a person goes on a healthy weight loss journey -they cannot truly take this concept out.

    My darned fingers do not seem to be working well. What I meant to type is:
    you get skinny fat from losing weight too quickly and NOT doing things like progressive weight lifting while eating at a deficit.

    That said, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

    It is difficult to go from the good-bad food syndrome to seeing food as just food, but if I can change that lifetime perspective anybody can.

    Look at it this way: no fuel at the gas station is good or bad, unless your car is not supposed to take that kind of fuel. It's all just fuel and serves a purpose. Well, food is fuel and we all have the choice as to what we want to put in our body. The only things to avoid are those foods that we may be allergic or intolerant to, because those can hurt us.

    Some people do great body recomps eating foods that others would classify as junk, or "bad carbs," and other people eat extremely nutritious diets but look skinny fat because they don't exercise, especially weight lift. I would agree that protein is important, along with heavy weight lifting, for building muscle, but you're not going to get muscle from just eating protein. You can get a lot of protein from that wonderful tofu burger (I think I read you're vegetarian :)) with mayo and vegetables added.

    I now step off my soap box. :D
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    FeedMeFish wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    There is no such thing as good or bad carbs. They are just carbs.

    I think they're referring to simple vs complex carbs. Simple carbs are found in refined flours, white rice, table sugar, most desserts, etc. Complex are oats, whole wheat/grains, vegetables, etc (commonly consumed by us who do intense strength training and/or sprints). In terms of CICO carbs are carbs but if you want better body composition, I'd suggest less junk food and more nutrient dense foods. This is exactly how my weight lifting friends (guys and girls) and I leaned out. Two of us actually (a female friend and I) were previously skinny-fat because we mostly ate unhealthy foods. Yes CICO is important but in terms of body comp, so are nutrients.

    Simple carbs are glucose and fructose, which are almost exclusively found freely in fruits and vegetables.

    Flours, rice = starches = complex carbs
    Table sugar, desserts = sucrose = disaccharide, in-between simple and complex
    Oats, whole grain, vegetables = fiber = complex carb
  • StrongGirlFitGirl
    StrongGirlFitGirl Posts: 183 Member
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    I've been doing a version of RFL - PSMF with medical supervision. I get blood work done every month to make sure everything is still good, and take supplements to make up for what I'm not getting from food right now. It's not meant to be long term, I'll be on it for six months, then transition to maintenance. It's hard, but I'm a big fan of the diet. I tried a lot of different things, but this is the diet that makes the most sense to me and the one that I'm actually sticking to and losing weight with.

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