The theory we immediately gain weight after sudden weight loss is a false and heres why.
Replies
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »HikerEd, if your hiking and using 7000 calories then then of course you need to maintain energy levels. But if you were just to include Dextrose/Maltodextrin mix in your diet per day amongst everything else it would be far from ideal if you were not burning them. It would turn to fat.
I would never use dextrose or maltodextrin in powdered form outside of a scenario like the above.
Think of all the wonderful things you could eat with the same macros :-)
haha very true
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »
Being an ex-boxer getting 'dry' to make weight was common and still is today. Water weight can play havoc with the scales and just because you may of regained 3-4 lbs in a short space of time do not get disheartened get back on the running machine and see if the weight goes again.
This is very very true.
Just replenishing your glycogen (and the attendant water gain which comes with it) can make this kind of a difference!
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »I have just had a nose at your profile Hornsby and you went from 203 pounds to 173 pounds... Did you consume 1900 calories for breakfast then? Did you eat 200 grams of sugar per day?
If not, why not?
No, I was not maintaining my weight then, I was losing weight. So I ate less everything to create a deficit. And to be clear the 1900 for breakfast comment was a tongue and cheek comment.
So you ate 200 grams of sugar per day to maintain weight? Why would you do that?0 -
OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.13 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »If we sat there eating 1000 apples per day we get fatter.
We'd die, not get fatter.
hypothetical situation
hypothetical answer.5 -
snowflake930 wrote: »I agree that many people have trigger foods (mine is chocolate) but many have taught themselves moderation and how to control the food. Some can not resist and overindulge. But it can be any food, not just sugary things. Each of us has our own of dealing with it. Never going near it or moderation. I do not agree that any food is evil. For me it is working so far, 2-1/2 years into maintenance of a 160 pound weight loss. I am happy, my family is happy, and my doctor is happy, so it works for me.
Congrats on maintaining! Haha yeah Chocolate can be a bit of a tricky one especially as it's so small but tastes so nice. I do not stay away from any food, if it's cheat evening or cheat day if i want it ill have it.
Personally I would not recommend anyone eating more sugar than required when trying to lose weight... in my opinion there are better foods to select that will nutritionally compliment their weight loss goals.0 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »I have just had a nose at your profile Hornsby and you went from 203 pounds to 173 pounds... Did you consume 1900 calories for breakfast then? Did you eat 200 grams of sugar per day?
If not, why not?
No, I was not maintaining my weight then, I was losing weight. So I ate less everything to create a deficit. And to be clear the 1900 for breakfast comment was a tongue and cheek comment.
So you ate 200 grams of sugar per day to maintain weight? Why would you do that?
No, I ate less of everything including sugar.
I like fruit, especially pineapples and bananas and they have lots of sugar. I like Tootsie Pops. I prefer sugar as quick energy when exercising. It tastes good. Those are some of the reasons why.3 -
OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
If you create a calorie deficit with carbs or without carbs, and the deficits are equal, the weight loss is the same.14 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »I have just had a nose at your profile Hornsby and you went from 203 pounds to 173 pounds... Did you consume 1900 calories for breakfast then? Did you eat 200 grams of sugar per day?
If not, why not?
No, I was not maintaining my weight then, I was losing weight. So I ate less everything to create a deficit. And to be clear the 1900 for breakfast comment was a tongue and cheek comment.
So you ate 200 grams of sugar per day to maintain weight? Why would you do that?
No, I ate less of everything including sugar.
I like fruit, especially pineapples and bananas and they have lots of sugar. I like Tootsie Pops. I prefer sugar as quick energy when exercising. It tastes good. Those are some of the reasons why.
Ah Ok, so you do agree with me then, reduce carbs and sugar to lose weight.
Now you like sugar because your aim is different. Thats just practical. For anyone looking to achieve mass or gain weight then sugar is good.0 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »I have just had a nose at your profile Hornsby and you went from 203 pounds to 173 pounds... Did you consume 1900 calories for breakfast then? Did you eat 200 grams of sugar per day?
If not, why not?
No, I was not maintaining my weight then, I was losing weight. So I ate less everything to create a deficit. And to be clear the 1900 for breakfast comment was a tongue and cheek comment.
So you ate 200 grams of sugar per day to maintain weight? Why would you do that?
No, I ate less of everything including sugar.
I like fruit, especially pineapples and bananas and they have lots of sugar. I like Tootsie Pops. I prefer sugar as quick energy when exercising. It tastes good. Those are some of the reasons why.
Ah Ok, so you do agree with me then, reduce carbs and sugar to lose weight.
Now you like sugar because your aim is different. Thats just practical. For anyone looking to achieve mass or gain weight then sugar is good.
No, reduce calories to lose weight. That is the scientific fact I agree with. Macros are irrelevant.17 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
If you create a calorie deficit with carbs or without carbs, and the deficits are equal, the weight loss is the same.
If someone that wanted to lose weight ate a whole tub of ice cream which was 2000 calories and nothing else all day then I would probably agree with you, they may lose weight. But that person is going to walk around hungry and when we are hungry we eat, it animal nature. If we don't then we are unhappy and will lose interest.
But essentially i completely disagree with you. If two twins with identical weights, heights, activity levels etc were to compete in a weight loss challenge. One were to eat Mcdonalds high is sugar and carbs but was only allowed to eat 2000 calories the other twin was only allowed to eat chicken and rice hitting 2000 calories per day.
The twin eating chicken and rice would lose more weight than the other even if the calories were the same due to the nutritional break down of macros in the food.
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OP, I'm glad you found what worked for you, but please stop projecting your method as right for everyone. Physiologically, it would work for everyone as you have created a deficit, however you have not taken the psychological factors into account.
Personally, and from what I've read on the forums, a lot of other mfp-ers agree, the low/no carbs and sugar would be so restrictive as to not be sustainable. When I view a food as off limits or 'bad', it just increases the desire for it. Having regular amounts of carbs and sugar, within my calorie limit, whether I'm exercising that day or not, is more realistic for me and many others.
As for whether or not a person would regain weight once they stop implementing the habits that caused weight loss/maintenance - well, yeah, not a huge surprise there.7 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »in terms of a dieters worst enemy i would say sugar is evil in terms of hindering (not stopping) weight loss.
I agree, however as with the calories and over consuming. Carbs and Sugar are energy sources, if we limit the amount of foods higher in energy then our bodies will use fat over glycogen as an energy. As we know thats all weight loss is, expending more than we consume.
If you're at rest your body will prefer using fat over glycogen. Glycogen is your "need energy fast, right now" source.5 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
If you create a calorie deficit with carbs or without carbs, and the deficits are equal, the weight loss is the same.
If someone that wanted to lose weight ate a whole tub of ice cream which was 2000 calories and nothing else all day then I would probably agree with you, they may lose weight. But that person is going to walk around hungry and when we are hungry we eat, it animal nature. If we don't then we are unhappy and will lose interest.
But essentially i completely disagree with you. If two twins with identical weights, heights, activity levels etc were to compete in a weight loss challenge. One were to eat Mcdonalds high is sugar and carbs but was only allowed to eat 2000 calories the other twin was only allowed to eat chicken and rice hitting 2000 calories per day.
The twin eating chicken and rice would lose more weight than the other even if the calories were the same due to the nutritional break down of macros in the food.
We can agree to disagree then. If all else remains constant except for macro breakdown the results would be the same. Energy is energy.13 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
If you create a calorie deficit with carbs or without carbs, and the deficits are equal, the weight loss is the same.
If someone that wanted to lose weight ate a whole tub of ice cream which was 2000 calories and nothing else all day then I would probably agree with you, they may lose weight. But that person is going to walk around hungry and when we are hungry we eat, it animal nature. If we don't then we are unhappy and will lose interest.
But essentially i completely disagree with you. If two twins with identical weights, heights, activity levels etc were to compete in a weight loss challenge. One were to eat Mcdonalds high is sugar and carbs but was only allowed to eat 2000 calories the other twin was only allowed to eat chicken and rice hitting 2000 calories per day.
The twin eating chicken and rice would lose more weight than the other even if the calories were the same due to the nutritional break down of macros in the food.
why? please site studies for this please.
I agree with Hornsby calorie deficit for weight loss.
I lost 50lbs in a year...have maintained within 10lbs for the last 2 years all with just calories.
I do watch my macros for health and fitness as I lift but that is the only reason..
And yes I eat lots of sugar...but I don't track it cause it doesn't matter.9 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
I took my time, with most days at maintenance. Complete diet breaks for months while I evaluated what my final goal was. Lost 34lbs in total over a period of two years.
Lots of exercise (cardio and weights) and lots of food to create a moderate weekly calorie deficit. I enjoy both exercise and food.
I absolutely didn't want to "see the weight fly off". I wanted (and achieved) fat loss and not fat + muscle loss, a danger of rapid weight loss.
I don't track sugar (as it's just a subset of carbs it's a bit of a waste of time unless you have medical issues).
My only limit on carbs is my overall calorie allowance. Protein and fat as minimum goals, carbs = whatever.
And no you cannot guarantee results - the primary factor in long term dieting success is adherence not food choices.10 -
philippakate197 wrote: »OP, I'm glad you found what worked for you, but please stop projecting your method as right for everyone. Physiologically, it would work for everyone as you have created a deficit, however you have not taken the psychological factors into account.
Personally, and from what I've read on the forums, a lot of other mfp-ers agree, the low/no carbs and sugar would be so restrictive as to not be sustainable. When I view a food as off limits or 'bad', it just increases the desire for it. Having regular amounts of carbs and sugar, within my calorie limit, whether I'm exercising that day or not, is more realistic for me and many others.
As for whether or not a person would regain weight once they stop implementing the habits that caused weight loss/maintenance - well, yeah, not a huge surprise there.
Not to offend as I appreciate you commenting but I do find your comment a little contradictory. So you have said it would work, so I am right and you agree low carb and low sugar with with exercise will help people lose weight?
I haven't said it is sustainable, Im not going to eat like this forever, just to hit my weight loss goals. If i continued then I would be too light. Where have I said it is sustainable?
Its about averages.. can people not read. firstly I have said if people want to eat what they want then go ahead but if you don't want to put weight on average it out. If you were to eat 4000 calories 3 days in a row and then tried to maintain your diet you would gain weight. Do you not realise that?
I have also said in other posts this is mainly about people thinking they have lost a few pounds and then within a week they have put the weight back on. It is mainly due to water weight.
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Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.. I have some work to do and will comment or reply if required when I come back on later.
Just as an FYI this is post is mainly about maintaining weight and the effects of water weight that most people do not realise.0 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »philippakate197 wrote: »OP, I'm glad you found what worked for you, but please stop projecting your method as right for everyone. Physiologically, it would work for everyone as you have created a deficit, however you have not taken the psychological factors into account.
Personally, and from what I've read on the forums, a lot of other mfp-ers agree, the low/no carbs and sugar would be so restrictive as to not be sustainable. When I view a food as off limits or 'bad', it just increases the desire for it. Having regular amounts of carbs and sugar, within my calorie limit, whether I'm exercising that day or not, is more realistic for me and many others.
As for whether or not a person would regain weight once they stop implementing the habits that caused weight loss/maintenance - well, yeah, not a huge surprise there.
Not to offend as I appreciate you commenting but I do find your comment a little contradictory. So you have said it would work, so I am right and you agree low carb and low sugar with with exercise will help people lose weight?
I haven't said it is sustainable, Im not going to eat like this forever, just to hit my weight loss goals. If i continued then I would be too light. Where have I said it is sustainable?
Its about averages.. can people not read. firstly I have said if people want to eat what they want then go ahead but if you don't want to put weight on average it out. If you were to eat 4000 calories 3 days in a row and then tried to maintain your diet you would gain weight. Do you not realise that?
I have also said in other posts this is mainly about people thinking they have lost a few pounds and then within a week they have put the weight back on. It is mainly due to water weight.
Uhh... you know decreasing your carbs is not the only way of getting lower calories, right?6 -
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.. I have some work to do and will comment or reply if required when I come back on later.
Just as an FYI this is post is mainly about maintaining weight and the effects of water weight that most people do not realise.
A lot of the people replying are maintaining their weight and have been doing so for quite a while.7 -
Well, the most important thing to say is congrats on your progress so far.
But....
All that is needed to lose weight is a calorie deficit as you mention. How you get there is highly irrelevant but mostly dependent on preference and activity levels. Eating sugar "with carbs" doesn't makes sense as sugar is a carb so you are always eating it with carbs. The common problem foods are sugar mixed with fat. And even those don't need to be cut out as long as a calorie deficit remains.
And recommending a blanket calorie for everyone is just plain irresponsible to do. There are plenty that would gain on 1900 per day and there are plenty like myself who think of 1900 as breakfast.
This3 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »I have just had a nose at your profile Hornsby and you went from 203 pounds to 173 pounds... Did you consume 1900 calories for breakfast then? Did you eat 200 grams of sugar per day?
If not, why not?
No, I was not maintaining my weight then, I was losing weight. So I ate less everything to create a deficit. And to be clear the 1900 for breakfast comment was a tongue and cheek comment.
So you ate 200 grams of sugar per day to maintain weight? Why would you do that?
No, I ate less of everything including sugar.
I like fruit, especially pineapples and bananas and they have lots of sugar. I like Tootsie Pops. I prefer sugar as quick energy when exercising. It tastes good. Those are some of the reasons why.
Ah Ok, so you do agree with me then, reduce carbs and sugar to lose weight.
Now you like sugar because your aim is different. Thats just practical. For anyone looking to achieve mass or gain weight then sugar is good.
If reducing carbs and sugar helps an individual achieve a calorie deficit then they will lose weight.
The same individual could reduce carbs and sugar and eat other foods (fat and protein) in a calorie surplus and would gain weight.
Another person could focus solely on calories, not purposely restrict carbs and sugar, and lose weight. That is the approach many of us have taken with great success. I lost the weight I set out to lose and am currently maintaining, and rarely look at either my carb or sugar totals for the day.
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »philippakate197 wrote: »OP, I'm glad you found what worked for you, but please stop projecting your method as right for everyone. Physiologically, it would work for everyone as you have created a deficit, however you have not taken the psychological factors into account.
Personally, and from what I've read on the forums, a lot of other mfp-ers agree, the low/no carbs and sugar would be so restrictive as to not be sustainable. When I view a food as off limits or 'bad', it just increases the desire for it. Having regular amounts of carbs and sugar, within my calorie limit, whether I'm exercising that day or not, is more realistic for me and many others.
As for whether or not a person would regain weight once they stop implementing the habits that caused weight loss/maintenance - well, yeah, not a huge surprise there.
Not to offend as I appreciate you commenting but I do find your comment a little contradictory. So you have said it would work, so I am right and you agree low carb and low sugar with with exercise will help people lose weight?
I haven't said it is sustainable, Im not going to eat like this forever, just to hit my weight loss goals. If i continued then I would be too light. Where have I said it is sustainable?
Its about averages.. can people not read. firstly I have said if people want to eat what they want then go ahead but if you don't want to put weight on average it out. If you were to eat 4000 calories 3 days in a row and then tried to maintain your diet you would gain weight. Do you not realise that?
I have also said in other posts this is mainly about people thinking they have lost a few pounds and then within a week they have put the weight back on. It is mainly due to water weight.
Yes, I agree low carb and low sugar works, as long as it puts you into a calorie deficit. And exercise is just another way to get that deficit, it's beneficial for many reasons but not actually required for weight loss. Just to reiterate, the important thing is a calorie deficit - how each individual gets that deficit and what kind of foods they eat is up to them.
If your way of losing weight is unsustainable what is your plan for when you're done with your diet? How do you plan to maintain the loss?
Of course you'd gain weight if you ate 4000cals 3 days in a row - that sounds like a binge to me, a common side effect of over restrictive diets.
And yes, I am familiar with natural fluctuations due to water weight etc.
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Yet, 4000 is what I am maintaining on which is why blanket recommendations don't work.4
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »Sugar is evil if over consumed especially when combines with high carbohydrates. I.e Various branded Sauces we combine with pasta, rice, potatoes. Sugar and Carbohydrates are both high energy sources, if over consumed consistently together there is only one result... weight gain.
Sugar is not evil.
Sugars are carbohydrates. In fact, all carbohydrates are sugars. Simple sugars are short chained carbohydrates and complex sugars are long chained carbohydrates.
Carbohydrates alone do not cause weight gain. Overconsumption of calories, regardless of the macro they come from, causes weight gain.7 -
It's true that there's often an initial bounce in water weight after raising your calories, largely from carrying more glycogen stores. There's also a mental component of people who think their "diet is over". However, there's another effect that explains some of the weight regain : hunger.
When you are on a prolonged deficit and then begin to eat at maintenance again, you will actually get a lot hungrier than you were on the deficit - there's a rebound hunger effect as your body is now trying to put on weight to prepare for the next time you "starve".
The transition from loss to maintenance is not easy. Statistically speaking it's much harder than losing in the first place.1
This discussion has been closed.
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