I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)

endlessfall16 wrote: »

mskessler89 wrote: »

endlessfall16 wrote: »

mskessler89 wrote: »

endlessfall16 wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

endlessfall16 wrote: »

brower47 wrote: »

endlessfall16 wrote: »

jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.

What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.

You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?

For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.

I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.

It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".

Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.

At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.

I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.

If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.

I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.

First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.

Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer

just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.

Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.

And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.

There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.

If you care to follow my previous posts, I have addressed every single point you mentioned here. But here goes again:

I do not think anything right or wrong. However, I do consider effectiveness, and when I shared my approach it was mainly to reply to the OP or those who were looking for something better than weighing. The weighers, counters voluntarily jumped in to defend their approach.

At this point I'm not following any time line for a good reason. I only mentioned it to be comprehensive. I'm already at normal bmi and started getting comments from those knowing me that I look too thin. Plus, I'm watching my sports performance. Also, life quality comes first, before additional 4, 5 lbs loss to reach a goal that I arbitrary made up. I don't want to skip father day, graduation parties, etc. so 4, 5 lbs gain, that is if I can't offset them, is still meaningless in time frame of 2, 3 weeks.

Most of us have typically gained and lived for years with 20, 50 lbs. It's up to you to have whatever perspective on the time line for loss and progress.

I'm not writing a complete diet book to deal with every situation for everyone. I simply replied piece meal to certain questions. You seem to be trying too hard to discredit my points.


You and I will have to differ on what is better and what is not. Let's just leave it as that.

I am not discrediting your points in the context of what works for you personally. It's good for you and the people it works for. I'm explaining why what applies to you doesn't apply to everyone. I'm explaining why it's not better for everyone, why it's not the most effective for everyone. In particular, it's not effective for someone on a timeline or someone who doesn't have the same hunger signals, as I illustrated.

You keep using the word "better," therefore you do think there is a right and a wrong. If you'd say "different" or "better for me," I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you're being awfully condescending to people who don't do it your way by implying your way is better, in all contexts, than theirs.

You know when you have to use "everyone" in your argument, you're scrapping the barrel.

This begins to look like a straw man argument now.