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Non-GMO foods aren't any safer or healthier
Replies
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I don't know anything about the subject, but I am curious about if genetic material survives the digestive process.
It can, yes. Took me a minute to locate the reference.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/full/nature08937.html
ETA: Should add, most doesn't.1 -
I don't know anything about the subject, but I am curious about if genetic material survives the digestive process.
It can, yes. Took me a minute to locate the reference.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/full/nature08937.html
ETA: Should add, most doesn't.
Thank you!0 -
Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.0
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paulgads82 wrote: »I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm asking for a reason to fear foods just because they've had a gene added. Fallacious appeals to past medical mistakes don't convince me much either. The soy, Apple, wheat point is also unconvincing, they have been changing for thousands of years, each time their genes and allele frequency being modified, every time a new variety is created. Would you not eat a new variety of Apple because "genes"?
Who's in fear of foods? I'm explaining why some people feel like the jury is still out despite reading on the internet that all GMOs "are safe."
What makes pointing out that drugs have been approved for public use before all of their side effects were discovered "fallacious?" I understand if you don't like my point and feel like nobody could ever make a mistake again, but you're dismissing it outright without even considering it, and simply using the word "fallacious" isn't a good reason to do that.
Which has changed more in my life time? Apples, or some randomly chosen GMO? By how many orders of magnitude? Your reason for being unconvinced is ... not very well thought out, in my opinion.4 -
paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
Not even close to comparable. Maybe a biology lesson is in order.
By the way there are only so many different genes for eye color and my guess is that they have been together before.3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »
Which has changed more in my life time? Apples, or some randomly chosen GMO? By how many orders of magnitude? Your reason for being unconvinced is ... not very well thought out, in my opinion.
I would hazard a guess that the degree of genetic change required to produce a Honey Crisp apple is not too dissimilar to that which results in "roundup ready" corn. In both cases we're talking about maybe a couple chromosomes that have been altered.0 -
Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.2
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FeedMeFish wrote: »Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.
There are no GMO tomatoes available for sale.15 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.
More than likely hot housed. ...forced to grow quickly so usually no taste4 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
Who's in fear of foods? I'm explaining why some people feel like the jury is still out despite reading on the internet that all GMOs "are safe."
What makes pointing out that drugs have been approved for public use before all of their side effects were discovered "fallacious?" I understand if you don't like my point and feel like nobody could ever make a mistake again, but you're dismissing it outright without even considering it, and simply using the word "fallacious" isn't a good reason to do that.
Which has changed more in my life time? Apples, or some randomly chosen GMO? By how many orders of magnitude? Your reason for being unconvinced is ... not very well thought out, in my opinion.
People don't think they are safe because they read it on the intrernet. Appeals to the failures of medical science by invoking thalidomide are fallacious, as explained here https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/oh-yeah-thalidomide-wheres-your-science-now/ I'm still waiting on why fast change is scary but slow isn't. Would you eat a new variety of Apple?2 -
Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
Not even close to comparable. Maybe a biology lesson is in order.
By the way there are only so many different genes for eye color and my guess is that they have been together before.
What happens when new life is created? Genes come from......? It's actually very comparable, only with GMO foods fewer genes are switched and with greater control.1 -
paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
That's not what is meant when people talk GMO food.0 -
Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.3 -
suzyjane1972 wrote: »FeedMeFish wrote: »Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.
More than likely hot housed. ...forced to grow quickly so usually no taste
Or just out of season or transported from far away. Tomatoes can lack taste when picked early or chilled, which is why supermarket tomatoes often aren't any good. IMO, nothing to do with organic or not. The type of tomato matters too.
And yeah, nothing to do with GMO, as no one is buying GMO tomatoes.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
That's not what is meant when people talk GMO food.
I know. I'm trying to draw attention to how common gene modification is in our diet already. Probably not as well as I'd like perhaps.....0 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.
I ordered some organic veg once. Tasted incredible. But I put it down to the variety and freshness. My own veg tastes amazing too. Like really amazing. It's just fresh and I pick varieties for flavour not yield.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.
Why? She has zero interest in keeping you alive.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
That's not what is meant when people talk GMO food.
Looking at the avalance of fear mongering graphics you get when you type "GMO food" into google, it's mostly because people have no idea what GMO food even means.0 -
On average, GM technology adoption has reduced chemical pesticide use by 37%, increased crop yields by 22%, and increased farmer profits by 68%. Yield gains and pesticide reductions are larger for insect-resistant crops than for herbicide-tolerant crops. Yield and profit gains are higher in developing countries than in developed countries.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111629
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suzyjane1972 wrote: »FeedMeFish wrote: »Yes, GMOs are safe but they taste like ****, which is why I eat mostly organic now anyways. My neighbor is currently growing organic tomatoes. She let me try one of her ripe ones. I was hooked.
More than likely hot housed. ...forced to grow quickly so usually no taste
I find hot house tomatoes, typically sold on the vine, to be absolutely delicious, and far tastier than those that are not grown that way.0 -
paulgads82 wrote: »I'm a GMO. You're a GMO. All your foods are GMOs. Some were modified faster but what does that matter? The only reason you fear GMOs is scientific illiteracy.
This! I recently discovered (last Christmas to be exact) that there is a genetic mutation that renders some fortunate souls less susceptible to norovirus. Norovirus came through my household, starting with my 9 year old, then my six year old, then my (at the time) 6 month old, then my husband. Despite being the primary caregiver of four violently ill people (and all the exposure that entails - trust me, I should have gotten a wicked bad case... ick), I only puked once, felt crappy for a day, and that was that. Our three year old didn't get sick at all (and I don't have to tell those who have children that three year olds aren't exactly known for good personal hygiene - by all rights she should have gotten sick too). I always thought people who couched stomach bugs in terms of "spending the night on the bathroom floor" were exaggerating a bit - I've never gotten very ill from a stomach bug (usually it's just like it was for me last Christmas - one or two episodes of vomiting or diarrhea, and it's over). But watching what it did to four of the six members of my household prompted me to read up on why some people get hit so hard. Turns out that most people get hit like that, but some of us are mutants, lol, and don't secrete the ABO alleles in our saliva, making it difficult for norovirus to take hold. I really am a GMO. And it would seem my third child is as well. I'm sure my husband and other three children wish they could be genetically modified to be non-secreters too. It would be nice to be able to choose mutations rather than leave them to random chance, and that's exactly what genetic modification of crops does.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.
Not sure why that would be. "Mother Nature" is a bloodthirsty *kitten*. She doesn't "care" whether any given species thrives or gets wiped out entirely. Ask the dinosaurs how compassionate Mother Nature is.
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NorthCascades wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »
Which has changed more in my life time? Apples, or some randomly chosen GMO? By how many orders of magnitude? Your reason for being unconvinced is ... not very well thought out, in my opinion.
I would hazard a guess that the degree of genetic change required to produce a Honey Crisp apple is not too dissimilar to that which results in "roundup ready" corn. In both cases we're talking about maybe a couple chromosomes that have been altered.
Roundup ready corn was produced by introducing a single gene, a controlling promoter, and some neighboring bits of plasmid that may have came along for the ride. The insertion may have disrupted a couple of non-essential genes already present. Or not, can't find details on the insertion site for the varieties that were propagated. It's also possible that this same gene/promoter combination was inserted in more than one location in the same corn plant, though the experimental protocol would have been designed to favor single insertion events.
Honeycrisp is a hybrid of Keepsake and an unknown apple variety, meaning it was produced via homologous recombination. That affects every chromosome, and a varying number of genes. Which are most likely affected is sequence-dependent. But, definitely more than a handful. There are > 300 loci used as markers for homologous combination and variety identification in apples*. So, there are at least that many where recombination occurs and that have enough variation to assist in the identification process.
*hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/40/1/15.full.pdf3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.
Mother Nature is constantly doing her best to kill you and me, and has been since the the beginning of humanity. Most of the food you eat every day would hardly be edible if it were still in the form Mother Nature intended. Smallpox and polio and the plague would still be killing a large portion of humanity if it weren't for humans interfering with Mother Nature.
Those "mad scientists" are people just like you and me who eat the same food we do. There is no conspiracy here. And if you actually researched genetic modification you'd see that what they're doing is not mad science or just wild guesswork. Ignorance is not bliss, it fosters fear and misunderstanding.11 -
There are nutritional variations in different varieties of the same food and the conditions it's grown in. They may not be extreme, but don't kid yourself in believing different varieties or origins of any given food are exactly the same regardless.
It isn't that GMO practices can't produce higher nutritional foods. They can and do in some cases, but the main purpose of GMO is and always has been for the benefit and profitability of agri-business. They want foods that are pest and disease resistant, with higher and faster yields, consistent size and appearance characteristics, and hardier slower or delayed ripening foods that store and ship better. Taste and nutritional benefits are not anywhere near the top of the list, especially if they conflict with the economic bottom line.
The produce I get from the Farmers Market simply tastes so much better and I know where it comes from and who produced it. It may not look as consitent and nice and would get bruised and over-ripe if it had to be shipped thousands of miles over a week or so to get to market, but it's real food. Most if not all of it is organic, but small farms struggle as it is and can't afford the costs to be certified as organic just to be able to put that on a label.1 -
paulgads82 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »paulgads82 wrote: »Also I want to add that every time you eat meat that's a GMO. The genes coming from both parents. Genes that haven't been together or eaten before. Brand new GMO.
That's not what is meant when people talk GMO food.
I know. I'm trying to draw attention to how common gene modification is in our diet already. Probably not as well as I'd like perhaps.....
Because you are mixing subjects0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.
Not sure why that would be. "Mother Nature" is a bloodthirsty *kitten*. She doesn't "care" whether any given species thrives or gets wiped out entirely. Ask the dinosaurs how compassionate Mother Nature is.
She also has no political or monetary agenda. No reason to hide or fudge facts. No reason to care = no reason to lie.2 -
Caroline393 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Caroline393 wrote: »This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm tired of hearing about how a food is so much healthier because it's "organic" or not genetically modified. And when I search for healthy recipes, all this stuff comes up about "GMO-free!" GMOs are safe, people!
Agreed. Besides, Mother Nature has been genetically modifying our food since the dawn of time...
Some people trust her more than the mad scientists and even madder government agencies.
Mother Nature is constantly doing her best to kill you and me, and has been since the the beginning of humanity. Most of the food you eat every day would hardly be edible if it were still in the form Mother Nature intended. Smallpox and polio and the plague would still be killing a large portion of humanity if it weren't for humans interfering with Mother Nature.
Those "mad scientists" are people just like you and me who eat the same food we do. There is no conspiracy here. And if you actually researched genetic modification you'd see that what they're doing is not mad science or just wild guesswork. Ignorance is not bliss, it fosters fear and misunderstanding.
Mother Nature is not trying to kill us. She isn't real, ya know.2 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »joeneely71 wrote: »There is a difference between selectively breeding/developing/hybridizing and genetically modifying. Not all gmo's are bad, but I prefer to avoid them when possible.
No prob here. But I will say organic oranges tastes so much better and I don't like the idea of eating cloned meat. Otherwise, sign me up. The food is cheaper and you have to die from something. Might as well die with a little bit more money in my pocket and a vacation or two a year instead of paying triple for your food at stores like Whole Foods.0
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