Calvin Klein 'PLUS SIZE' model
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VintageFeline wrote: »
It's Calvin Klein though. Not exactly Channel or something (I'm totally clueless about fashion).0 -
I find her stats kind of confusing honestly as mine are similar and I'm a size 2-4 depending on brand. She's an inch taller and 8 pounds heavier and yet several sizes larger...very curious. Otherwise though, I have no effs to give- one of my cousins has been doing high fashion modelling for more than a decade, Italian Vogue, the works and if you stood her next to this lady the plus sized model would LOOK plus sized. I look at it as a comparative term, she can't be too disparaged by it given how much money she's making off being the pinnacle of all this buzz.0
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wolfgirl78 wrote: »I don't think anything is wrong with the low BMI women at all. If that person actually had a health issue due to it I would be concerned. However I don't associate low BMI women with eating disorders.
I still think what I stated above that a size 10 model should not be called plus size, she's not.
Just would like to see more more women like Myla modeling without being referred to as plus size. She gives me a more accurate idea of what clothes would look like on me, rather than someone a lot smaller.
That is the point of the whole article. There aren't models representing "normal" BMI.1 -
wolfgirl78 wrote: »I don't think anything is wrong with the low BMI women at all. If that person actually had a health issue due to it I would be concerned. However I don't associate low BMI women with eating disorders.
I still think what I stated above that a size 10 model should not be called plus size, she's not.
Just would like to see more more women like Myla modeling without being referred to as plus size. She gives me a more accurate idea of what clothes would look like on me, rather than someone a lot smaller.
That is the point of the whole article. There aren't models representing "normal" BMI.
I know. I just felt this thread got derailed from that point by people accusing OP of wanting to outlaw hiring women with underweight BMI's. I never got that from any of her post I read3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »
It's Calvin Klein though. Not exactly Channel or something (I'm totally clueless about fashion).
I was referring to the very slim models.
Calvin Klein are using this chick (and a lot of celebrities, so yeah, aspiration there too) so not the waifs of high end designer.
And catalogue models are generally not the stats of runway. Runway models are a breed unto themselves, commercial models are often a little less extreme in all ways, looks, build etc because they have to model a high street brand that has a starting size of US4/UK8. Those models are often closer to a US2/UK6. Again a little smaller to ensure they can shoot the clothes without any fit issues other than a little clipping of the garment.
Honestly, I've been on the other side of this debate. In plus ranges I never saw someone that looked like me and it is frustrating but I also understand why. Indie brands will often have a broader range of body shapes and sizes because they shoot the collection post production (if anyone wants examples to look at I can point in the direction of) so have a range of sizes to hand. Bigger companies shoot pre-production so have to make sure one sample garment will fit the model.0 -
That plus-size Calvin Klein model's body looked like mine and was the same size as me at my heaviest point (which was the top end of my healthy BMI range) and no one would have EVER considered me to be plus size! She looks great and I would question the sanity or judgment of anyone who would say that this woman is "fat" or "chubby."
I'm now much slimmer than that since losing weight. (I needed to drop some weight to get down to the lower half of my healthy BMI range because, for some crappy reason, my health suffers when it's not. My blood pressure, cholesterol, inflammation markers, etc. all shoot way up if I'm in the top half of the healthy range. Doesn't matter that I've been a long-distance runner both before and after the loss. My doctor says some people are genetically like that. I come from a family of very slim people. The moment we put on weight everything goes to hell.)
But when I was heavier, I never looked "fat" or "plus-sized" or whatever else they are calling this woman. I look pretty good either way, IMO. And SHE looks awesome!
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VintageFeline wrote: »
It's Calvin Klein though. Not exactly Channel or something (I'm totally clueless about fashion).
Calvin Klein has tiers, just like Michael Kors. There's plenty of ready-wear in department stores, but they also do high fashion lines where the garments are $2000+.0 -
My thoughts: I think it's disgusting that the modelling industry calls her plus size, but modelling is about clothes not people. Ultimately though, she's hot. I totally totally would
Her body shape is also vaguely achievable for someone of my frame. I have now got both a goal to aspire to and a new crush. Win. 0 -
I used to be a size 8 and am now a size 12. I would love to have role models who look great at a size 10.0
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I see this stuff posted on multiple sites, followed by people going crazy over how the model isn't plus size.
Unless I am mistaken plus size more often refers to height not weight in the modelling world. Like the op said she is 180cm, if you google other plus sized models they seem to be similar heights.
Sure you do have plus sized models that are over weight, but if the model looks like a healthy weight, maybe just assume they are tall if labeled plus size.
Also they never say they are a plus sized women, but a plus sized model, like they have their own scale. Like men and women have different size scales. A large man isn't the same size as a large women. Just like a plus sized model isn't the same size as a plus sized women.
I don't know, I just find it odd people get so worked up over a minor word used to describe a very small percentage of the population, and often they are worked up because they misunderstand the term.1 -
I see this stuff posted on multiple sites, followed by people going crazy over how the model isn't plus size.
Unless I am mistaken plus size more often refers to height not weight in the modelling world. Like the op said she is 180cm, if you google other plus sized models they seem to be similar heights.
Sure you do have plus sized models that are over weight, but if the model looks like a healthy weight, maybe just assume they are tall if labeled plus size.
Also they never say they are a plus sized women, but a plus sized model, like they have their own scale. Like men and women have different size scales. A large man isn't the same size as a large women. Just like a plus sized model isn't the same size as a plus sized women.
I don't know, I just find it odd people get so worked up over a minor word used to describe a very small percentage of the population, and often they are worked up because they misunderstand the term.
You are mistaken. Plus size refers to weight, or more specifically clothing size. "Normal" models are a US 0 or 2 (UK 4 or 6). Plus size are a US 12 (UK 16) upwards. This model is a US 10 (UK 14). She has openly spoken about falling in the inbetween space between a "Normal" model and a plus size model - makes it hard to get a job in modelling.
In terms of height, most models are very tall. Minimum is 5ft8 - 173 cm. Most are much taller. This gives a longer-boned appearance and makes them look comparatively even thinner than standard height women.1 -
mumblemagic wrote: »I see this stuff posted on multiple sites, followed by people going crazy over how the model isn't plus size.
Unless I am mistaken plus size more often refers to height not weight in the modelling world. Like the op said she is 180cm, if you google other plus sized models they seem to be similar heights.
Sure you do have plus sized models that are over weight, but if the model looks like a healthy weight, maybe just assume they are tall if labeled plus size.
Also they never say they are a plus sized women, but a plus sized model, like they have their own scale. Like men and women have different size scales. A large man isn't the same size as a large women. Just like a plus sized model isn't the same size as a plus sized women.
I don't know, I just find it odd people get so worked up over a minor word used to describe a very small percentage of the population, and often they are worked up because they misunderstand the term.
You are mistaken. Plus size refers to weight, or more specifically clothing size. "Normal" models are a US 0 or 2 (UK 4 or 6). Plus size are a US 12 (UK 16) upwards. This model is a US 10 (UK 14). She has openly spoken about falling in the inbetween space between a "Normal" model and a plus size model - makes it hard to get a job in modelling.
In terms of height, most models are very tall. Minimum is 5ft8 - 173 cm. Most are much taller. This gives a longer-boned appearance and makes them look comparatively even thinner than standard height women.
Thanks for correcting me. Always thought plus size was more about height.
Guess I was wrong.1 -
mumblemagic wrote: »I see this stuff posted on multiple sites, followed by people going crazy over how the model isn't plus size.
Unless I am mistaken plus size more often refers to height not weight in the modelling world. Like the op said she is 180cm, if you google other plus sized models they seem to be similar heights.
Sure you do have plus sized models that are over weight, but if the model looks like a healthy weight, maybe just assume they are tall if labeled plus size.
Also they never say they are a plus sized women, but a plus sized model, like they have their own scale. Like men and women have different size scales. A large man isn't the same size as a large women. Just like a plus sized model isn't the same size as a plus sized women.
I don't know, I just find it odd people get so worked up over a minor word used to describe a very small percentage of the population, and often they are worked up because they misunderstand the term.
You are mistaken. Plus size refers to weight, or more specifically clothing size. "Normal" models are a US 0 or 2 (UK 4 or 6). Plus size are a US 12 (UK 16) upwards. This model is a US 10 (UK 14). She has openly spoken about falling in the inbetween space between a "Normal" model and a plus size model - makes it hard to get a job in modelling.
In terms of height, most models are very tall. Minimum is 5ft8 - 173 cm. Most are much taller. This gives a longer-boned appearance and makes them look comparatively even thinner than standard height women.
Thanks for correcting me. Always thought plus size was more about height.
Guess I was wrong.
I wish you were right!
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Unless for some medical reason, that might excuse someone via a doctor's note (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/09/21/woman-eats-every-15-minutes-to-keep-up-60-pound-frame/); there should be limits on how low and high someone's allowed to be, with the exception of those that're muscular (bodybuilders) because they're healthy but're also obviously above a normal BMI.
If a company manufactures clothes in my size (US 14), then they (Victoria's Secret, etc.) should also have models representing that size; since I am also their target consumer. Since the purpose of the model, is to show how the clothing'll look on the consumer. When ordering my size online I've had to return (at my expense) or save the merchandise (in hopes that it'd eventually look appropriate, when I got rid of some weight). This is unacceptable because most of the time, this is avoidable if models of all of the sizes available; were modeling those sizes. It's unfathomable to expect me to determine, how the same style dress on a size 4 model'll look in my size 14. If they don't desire to have models above a size 4, then they shouldn't offer their products; for sizes over that.2 -
JessicaMcB wrote: »I find her stats kind of confusing honestly as mine are similar and I'm a size 2-4 depending on brand. She's an inch taller and 8 pounds heavier and yet several sizes larger...very curious. Otherwise though, I have no effs to give- one of my cousins has been doing high fashion modelling for more than a decade, Italian Vogue, the works and if you stood her next to this lady the plus sized model would LOOK plus sized. I look at it as a comparative term, she can't be too disparaged by it given how much money she's making off being the pinnacle of all this buzz.
They are likely talking about European sizing.1 -
I'm 5'1" and around 122 (+-) and our real issue is how to figure out our Obesity issues here in the U.S. and likely just about worldwide.
Models are working girls, let the Industry select who best can bring in profits to them....so if the avg model is tall & thin, it's fine, they are working. Notice how Tyra Banks blew up after her "runway jobs" ended. Some do manage to stay smaller but it is a challenge.
The other, very obese model....smh.0 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »It's Calvin Klein, not Torrid or Lane Bryant. Of COURSE size 10 is plus-sized. The fact that it's (sadly) also the new "normal" doesn't change the fact that Calvin Klein -- like most mainstream designers -- has always used very thin models.
Also, her chin does in fact need some de-emphasizing (which it's received in most of her pics). It's almost like models aren't paragons of aesthetic perfection and require some Photoshopping, just like you and me. Just as it's been for decades with airbrushing.I don't care what clothes look like on a size 0 model (which for my size would be size what... -4? considering that they are tall AND size 0). It's not what it will look like on me. What I want to see is what it will look on normal people... that will save me the trouble of having to try out clothes that will inevitably look awful on me.
Congratulations -- Calvin Klein ads aren't geared towards you. I ride a motorcycle and am not fabulously wealthy, so Lamborghini ads aren't geared towards me, but it's never occurred to me to complain about it.KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »It makes no sense to have normal looking models? ... Do they have to be borderline anorexic?
Does it really make you feel better about yourself to call thin people "borderline anorexic"?
Huh why not? I have Calvin Klein clothes (workout clothes in fine). Size S actually. And I'm a size 6, and I'm nowhere as thin as that 'plus size' model.
So if their ads are not geared towards me, well... I have to wonder who they are geared for?
I think the conversation about who the ads are referring to is more geared towards high-fashion/couture clothes and the people who can buy them, not the off-the-rack stuff. The extreme ends of high fashion aren't geared towards the majority (us mere mortals) in their daily lives, they're there to present an image, an ideal, a fantasy. Then the ready-to-wear lines represent what normal people (like me, probably you) wear. I generally skip the ads and "fashion articles" because I see glimpses and think, "yeah, as if I could wear THAT to work." (Or on a date, even.) Sure, there are some ads/layouts with more "regular" clothes, but most seem to be presenting a more fanciful image, and the women are a part of it.
On other notes, it is silly that a woman wearing a size 10 is considered to be a "plus-sized" model. It just illustrates how badly our societal perception has been skewed regarding size.
Being underweight doesn't mean someone is anorexic. There are other physical signs as well as the mental/emotional ones behind the disease. There is an entire list of criteria which must be met for diagnosis. That doesn't mean there aren't EDNOS (Eating Disorders Not Otherwise Specified) or OSFED (Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorders) diagnosis possible.
And saying someone MIGHT have ANY KIND of eating disorder because of how they look (or because of their BMI published on some website) is waaaayyy too judgemental and just lacks a basis in fact.
OK, I'm done, I think. Covered all my bases which popped up while reading this thread.
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rainbowbow wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »i'm sorry but this is ridiculous.
She is a plus size MODEL. Of course she looks good. this is irrelevant.
I just want to say that this mentality you are talking about is just silly. Listen, the fact of the matter is... 70.2% of people in the united states are overweight. Of that almost half are seriously obese. Let's please drop the "think of the children!" argument, because the fact of the matter is 70% are likely to be fat once they reach adulthood and only 4% may develop an eating disorder during their lifetime.
I'm not okay with models who are clearly suffering from anorexia, but i'm perfectly fine with a healthy model who is a size 0 modeling clothes. The whole reason they are models is because they fill a specific standard of beauty. They are generally their size because this is how clothing designers want their outfits portrayed (draped). And this is really only in high-fashion modeling.
Look at the angels... notice anything similar?
there are plenty of models whom we would consider "normal" size who model clothing, do advertisements, and more.
What we don't need is people confusing the fact that the above women is modeling plus size clothing (size 10). It is what it is.
More and more as we get fatter and fatter as a society we are becoming more and more conditioned to seeing very large people all the time. this is not how human bodies were designed. Period. Why do they pick a woman who wears a size 10 as their plus size model vs someone who is "actually fat" like, say, tess holiday?
Because she is still an appropriately sized human being within a healthy weight range. Her proportions fit her body. She has the desired hourglass shape which highlights the clothing she wears. Her body is still young and glowing. And she radiates health.
If we had genuinely obese people modeling clothing, quite frankly no one would buy anything. Models don't sell us the clothing; they sell us the idea of how we'll look in the clothing.
It's also important to mention that as we have low body fat the variations seen in body type are very very minimal. this means that a small model of similar height will look the same as other models of similar height which means they portray clothing the same.
The fatter you get the more body type is apparent, no two fat people hold fat in the exact same places. What does that mean? it means that they cannot model plus size clothing consistently as clothing makers cannot make clothing that looks consistent on fatter people. Someone may hold their fat in the stomach, legs, butt, chest, etc. Clothing therefore has to be tailored to their specific body measurements.
Let's next talk about the fact that a model like myla can actually show off women's clothing. Whereas someone like tess:
You can see they have to use posing manipulation to get her to actually show the clothing and not just look like a giant blob. You'll commonly see side shots, hand on the hip to accentuate a false waist, leg popped out to the side to accentuate a false curve, feet apart to give the illusion of an hourglass figure, and more. Someone like tess cannot even stand with feet together, with arms straight at the side, etc. like myla can because her anatomy doesn't even allow it. See Below for an example:
The fact is, they will always pick someone like Myla to model plus size clothing instead of someone who is obese because her body type MODELS better than someone who is obese. She sells the idea, she drapes clothing, her body radiates beauty and health.
As far as models which are "too skinny", there are more and more regulations being put into place to keep models who are TOO thin off the runways. Being too-thin is now less desirable. This doesn't mean we should have "average people" models (for the reasons i provided). And it doesn't mean that plus size isn't plus size just because the model is not visibly "fat".
edit: my point is the whole point of a models job is to make clothing look good and to be beautiful but not too distracting. They will always pick women who show clothing the best and who represent the "beauty" they are trying to project. You will not see "average" looking people, older people, the "dad bod", the obese, the unhealthy, the crippled, and more selling high end clothing because it does not reflect the artistic vision for these items.
Is it OK if we think she's pretty? :headscratch:
obviously? like i said... she's a model isn't she?
I was only addressing the nonsense from the original post.
Nonsense from original post? I do not think you understood me at all. I was addressing the fact that woman with BMI 21 is being called PLUS, big and similar. Their model from previous campaign in 1.8 m tall and 50 kg (BMI 16.5). I'm not say we should have overweight models (this one is not) I'm saying not to put UNDERWEIGHT models.
And about angels, just because you think they look healthy does not mean that they actually are:
Adriana Lima BMI 17.6
Alessandra Ambrosio BMI 16.5
Behati Prinslo BMI 16.7
.... for more: http://thevsangelz.tumblr.com/measurements-and-description
And they are one of the more 'normal looking' models around. Being underweight carries many health risks. Actually it is healthier to be couple kg overweight rather than underweight.
I am basically saying they should not be promoting anything unhealthy.
She is big because of her height and the fact that she wear size 10 clothing. not because she's fat. She IS plus sized.
And as stated, they need models to be thin because they actually "model" clothing. And as stated, yet again, 70% of people are overweight, 35% are OBESE. The measly 4% of women who *may* develop an eating disorder in their lifetime is NOTHING compared to the damaging health effects of obesity on our society.
I'm not saying anorexic models are good, i'm saying that we shouldn't have "normal" looking high fashion models because it makes no sense.
Actually, yes, we should.
I don't care what clothes look like on a size 0 model (which for my size would be size what... -4? considering that they are tall AND size 0). It's not what it will look like on me. What I want to see is what it will look on normal people... that will save me the trouble of having to try out clothes that will inevitably look awful on me.
Definitely
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A size 10 on a 5'10" woman with a BMI of 21 like the OP model is going to look way different than it would on a woman who is average height or shorter. I would love a BMI of 21-22. That is not plus sized!
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devil_in_a_blue_dress wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »I find her stats kind of confusing honestly as mine are similar and I'm a size 2-4 depending on brand. She's an inch taller and 8 pounds heavier and yet several sizes larger...very curious. Otherwise though, I have no effs to give- one of my cousins has been doing high fashion modelling for more than a decade, Italian Vogue, the works and if you stood her next to this lady the plus sized model would LOOK plus sized. I look at it as a comparative term, she can't be too disparaged by it given how much money she's making off being the pinnacle of all this buzz.
They are likely talking about European sizing.
But even then a US 2/4 is a UK 4/6, how is she a 10? Maybe she has really ample hips or something and that accounts for it but its confusing imo and makes me wonder if she's actually a smaller size and they're just playing up the plus size angle by saying she's a 10.
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