Calvin Klein 'PLUS SIZE' model
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rainbowbow wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »i'm sorry but this is ridiculous.
She is a plus size MODEL. Of course she looks good. this is irrelevant.
I just want to say that this mentality you are talking about is just silly. Listen, the fact of the matter is... 70.2% of people in the united states are overweight. Of that almost half are seriously obese. Let's please drop the "think of the children!" argument, because the fact of the matter is 70% are likely to be fat once they reach adulthood and only 4% may develop an eating disorder during their lifetime.
I'm not okay with models who are clearly suffering from anorexia, but i'm perfectly fine with a healthy model who is a size 0 modeling clothes. The whole reason they are models is because they fill a specific standard of beauty. They are generally their size because this is how clothing designers want their outfits portrayed (draped). And this is really only in high-fashion modeling.
Look at the angels... notice anything similar?
there are plenty of models whom we would consider "normal" size who model clothing, do advertisements, and more.
What we don't need is people confusing the fact that the above women is modeling plus size clothing (size 10). It is what it is.
More and more as we get fatter and fatter as a society we are becoming more and more conditioned to seeing very large people all the time. this is not how human bodies were designed. Period. Why do they pick a woman who wears a size 10 as their plus size model vs someone who is "actually fat" like, say, tess holiday?
Because she is still an appropriately sized human being within a healthy weight range. Her proportions fit her body. She has the desired hourglass shape which highlights the clothing she wears. Her body is still young and glowing. And she radiates health.
If we had genuinely obese people modeling clothing, quite frankly no one would buy anything. Models don't sell us the clothing; they sell us the idea of how we'll look in the clothing.
It's also important to mention that as we have low body fat the variations seen in body type are very very minimal. this means that a small model of similar height will look the same as other models of similar height which means they portray clothing the same.
The fatter you get the more body type is apparent, no two fat people hold fat in the exact same places. What does that mean? it means that they cannot model plus size clothing consistently as clothing makers cannot make clothing that looks consistent on fatter people. Someone may hold their fat in the stomach, legs, butt, chest, etc. Clothing therefore has to be tailored to their specific body measurements.
Let's next talk about the fact that a model like myla can actually show off women's clothing. Whereas someone like tess:
You can see they have to use posing manipulation to get her to actually show the clothing and not just look like a giant blob. You'll commonly see side shots, hand on the hip to accentuate a false waist, leg popped out to the side to accentuate a false curve, feet apart to give the illusion of an hourglass figure, and more. Someone like tess cannot even stand with feet together, with arms straight at the side, etc. like myla can because her anatomy doesn't even allow it. See Below for an example:
The fact is, they will always pick someone like Myla to model plus size clothing instead of someone who is obese because her body type MODELS better than someone who is obese. She sells the idea, she drapes clothing, her body radiates beauty and health.
As far as models which are "too skinny", there are more and more regulations being put into place to keep models who are TOO thin off the runways. Being too-thin is now less desirable. This doesn't mean we should have "average people" models (for the reasons i provided). And it doesn't mean that plus size isn't plus size just because the model is not visibly "fat".
edit: my point is the whole point of a models job is to make clothing look good and to be beautiful but not too distracting. They will always pick women who show clothing the best and who represent the "beauty" they are trying to project. You will not see "average" looking people, older people, the "dad bod", the obese, the unhealthy, the crippled, and more selling high end clothing because it does not reflect the artistic vision for these items.
Is it OK if we think she's pretty? :headscratch:
obviously? like i said... she's a model isn't she?
I was only addressing the nonsense from the original post.
Nonsense from original post? I do not think you understood me at all. I was addressing the fact that woman with BMI 21 is being called PLUS, big and similar. Their model from previous campaign in 1.8 m tall and 50 kg (BMI 16.5). I'm not say we should have overweight models (this one is not) I'm saying not to put UNDERWEIGHT models.
And about angels, just because you think they look healthy does not mean that they actually are:
Adriana Lima BMI 17.6
Alessandra Ambrosio BMI 16.5
Behati Prinslo BMI 16.7
.... for more: http://thevsangelz.tumblr.com/measurements-and-description
And they are one of the more 'normal looking' models around. Being underweight carries many health risks. Actually it is healthier to be couple kg overweight rather than underweight.
I am basically saying they should not be promoting anything unhealthy.
She is big because of her height and the fact that she wear size 10 clothing. not because she's fat. She IS plus sized.
And as stated, they need models to be thin because they actually "model" clothing. And as stated, yet again, 70% of people are overweight, 35% are OBESE. The measly 4% of women who *may* develop an eating disorder in their lifetime is NOTHING compared to the damaging health effects of obesity on our society.
I'm not saying anorexic models are good, i'm saying that we shouldn't have "normal" looking high fashion models because it makes no sense.
Actually, yes, we should.
I don't care what clothes look like on a size 0 model (which for my size would be size what... -4? considering that they are tall AND size 0). It's not what it will look like on me. What I want to see is what it will look on normal people... that will save me the trouble of having to try out clothes that will inevitably look awful on me.
then you're not the desired audience.
No one says "Oh, i want to shop and so and so's designer store because it'll make me look average". Models sell a dream, a vision, and the product itself as it was intended to be worn.
And as stated, yet again, models are the size they are because one size fits all of them. They portray the silhouette the designers have in mind and they drape clothing properly.
You are actually wrong...even people that are as skinny as they are don't have same measurements. Even skeletons would not be the same.
Example:
Lais Ribeiro Height: 5’11 or 180 cm; Weight: 54 kg or 119 Pounds; Measurements: 31.5B-23-33
Behati Prinslo Height: 5’11 or 180 cm; Weight: 54 kg or 119.5 Pounds; Measurements: 33A-24-35
See same height, weight and STILL not same.
Also telling people they are not 'target audience' - who is with 70%percent people being overweight...and them selling a dream, a vision...of what? Anorexia?
okay, look at the variation in sizes there. We are talking SMALL variations.
The higher your bmi the more body fat and the more variation in body type. This is why it's so difficult for us "average" people to find clothing that fits us, we all have bigger variations in body size. the model's job is to portray the clothing in the best possible light and as the designer intended.
And skeletons wouldn't be the same? I'm sorry, but we are again talking inches in variation not huge differences.
They are selling the dream of the best possible way that item of clothing can look. that's their job.
Yeah it's the time of advanced technologies...soon models will be obsolete with virtual runways and whatever.
i think as humans we will always seek out beauty in things. There are a couple things that as humans, we find beautiful instinctually. These people whose job it is to sell these items of clothing are selected specifically because we find them outliers.
Youth, Certain waist/hip Ratios (or chest/waist in men), symmetry, contrast, health/vibrance, clear skin, and more are just natural things we find beautiful and as much as we want those things to change or for our features (whatever they may be) to fit standard the fact still remains. I don't believe, even as cultural ideals of beauty change that these instinctual traits will ever change.
I think certain industries (high fashion, luxury brands, and more) will continue to exploit these traits until the end of time because it works.
Beauty isn't instinctual, it's intellectual and cultural. Body modification through scarring, and peircing has been a cultural beauty for millennia. Obesity has been a sign of beauty in some cultures. What you define as beauty is a product of the evolution of your culture, not the evolution of the species.7 -
Oh, for kittens sake..0
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This messes with me a little bit because she has a similar, slightly better body than me. I've worked very hard to get here and I'm still unhappy and now I come to find it's considered "plus size"? Rediculous. She looks great.2
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I didn't go thru all 5 pages so this may already have been said, but i don't think we're giving today's "girls" enough credit. The young ladies coming up today are much swifter than we were when it comes to understanding media and the lure, understanding health, understanding their bodies. Any of the 20 somethings I know are fully aware of model sizing, airbrushing, photoshopping...and most are pretty solid in their own selves, so the sight of a "plus" size model who isn't heavy wouldn't even affect their thinking, let alone shape it.2
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emily120699 wrote: »This messes with me a little bit because she has a similar, slightly better body than me. I've worked very hard to get here and I'm still unhappy and now I come to find it's considered "plus size"? Rediculous. She looks great.
YOU look great too xo
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I found this article, and I hope it gives some perspective on the misleading blurbs in the OP. Calvin Klein did not sign Myla to be plus-size, they signed her to be her. The uproar came when the public found out her old modeling agency classified her as plus-size. Most of her work was done modeling lingerie with bust and butt padding so she could fit 12/14 sample sizes. So no, she's not plus-size. She doesn't think she's plus-size, her most famous client doesn't think she's plus-size, the fashion industry struggles to think of her as plus-size and encouraged her to GAIN weight.
https://www.yahoo.com/style/myla-dalbesio-talks-about-plus-c1418592823899.html3 -
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I prefer tall slender models. I like when ads are artistically rendered, and the people used are exceptionally beautiful. If Vogue magazine used regular people in their shoots I wouldn't look at it - it wouldn't be appealing or interesting to me.
As somebody who is artistic, I think it's unfair that designers are having to censor how they want to display their art to suit the opinions of the general public, who are not even going to purchase their cloths. I also don't think the models are being taken advantage of - they know the will have to maintain specific measurements and its up to them to do so. They can quit at anytime they feel it's too hard or unhealthy.
I can't help but feel that the people who complain about models being slender are just upset and resentful that they don't fit that mold themselves, and feel excluded. I'm short but I don't complain that high fashion uses tall models...most cloths look better imo on the proportions of a tall person, which makes sense to use that body type.
As far as models for regular clothing, yes, it would be nice to have relatable models for sizing and fit purposes. I have seen some stores that will use petite models for their petite lines, and larger models for their larger lines, but those are few and far between. I shop a lot at Anthropolgie and they have petite versions of most of their cloths. It's a crapshoot on whether something will work for me or not. They now have a feature that allows other clients who have purchased an item to upload photos of themselves in the garment and do a write up about for that is really useful. Perhaps more stores should do that, then we can all be models and have a variety of body types to exemplify how something will fit. It also saves the company money as they don't have to pay the clients for their images lol.2 -
mskessler89 wrote: »I found this article, and I hope it gives some perspective on the misleading blurbs in the OP. Calvin Klein did not sign Myla to be plus-size, they signed her to be her. The uproar came when the public found out her old modeling agency classified her as plus-size. Most of her work was done modeling lingerie with bust and butt padding so she could fit 12/14 sample sizes. So no, she's not plus-size. She doesn't think she's plus-size, her most famous client doesn't think she's plus-size, the fashion industry struggles to think of her as plus-size and encouraged her to GAIN weight.
https://www.yahoo.com/style/myla-dalbesio-talks-about-plus-c1418592823899.html
I do not know what 'misleading blurbs' you are talking about. Maybe it did not come across like I planned it too. English is my second language after all, even though I usually don't have any issues. Maybe everyone here just read it as they want to. Just to clear up I never said Calvin Klein labeled her as PLUS size. I said basically what you said - that there was suddenly a big story in media and all over how they got a PLUS size model. And my point was that public opinion is skewed to be shocked to see a woman that is healthy weight in such a fashion campaign.3 -
KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »I found this article, and I hope it gives some perspective on the misleading blurbs in the OP. Calvin Klein did not sign Myla to be plus-size, they signed her to be her. The uproar came when the public found out her old modeling agency classified her as plus-size. Most of her work was done modeling lingerie with bust and butt padding so she could fit 12/14 sample sizes. So no, she's not plus-size. She doesn't think she's plus-size, her most famous client doesn't think she's plus-size, the fashion industry struggles to think of her as plus-size and encouraged her to GAIN weight.
https://www.yahoo.com/style/myla-dalbesio-talks-about-plus-c1418592823899.html
I do not know what 'misleading blurbs' you are talking about. Maybe it did not come across like I planned it too. English is my second language after all, even though I usually don't have any issues. Maybe everyone here just read it as they want to. Just to clear up I never said Calvin Klein labeled her as PLUS size. I said basically what you said - that there was suddenly a big story in media and all over how they got a PLUS size model. And my point was that public opinion is skewed to be shocked to see a woman that is healthy weight in such a fashion campaign.
The images you posted said Calvin Klein signed their first plus-size model. No, they didn't - they signed an "in-betweener" who normally modeled plus-size lingerie. She wasn't modeling a plus-size line for Calvin Klein, and most of the images posted in the OP are not her plus-size work. I know you didn't write the captions for the photos, but the captions are implying something that isn't accurate. I think some people in this thread are missing the distinction between modeling as plus-size by using enhancements vs. actually being plus-size, or that the CK campaign wasn't a plus-size one.0 -
mskessler89 wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »I found this article, and I hope it gives some perspective on the misleading blurbs in the OP. Calvin Klein did not sign Myla to be plus-size, they signed her to be her. The uproar came when the public found out her old modeling agency classified her as plus-size. Most of her work was done modeling lingerie with bust and butt padding so she could fit 12/14 sample sizes. So no, she's not plus-size. She doesn't think she's plus-size, her most famous client doesn't think she's plus-size, the fashion industry struggles to think of her as plus-size and encouraged her to GAIN weight.
https://www.yahoo.com/style/myla-dalbesio-talks-about-plus-c1418592823899.html
I do not know what 'misleading blurbs' you are talking about. Maybe it did not come across like I planned it too. English is my second language after all, even though I usually don't have any issues. Maybe everyone here just read it as they want to. Just to clear up I never said Calvin Klein labeled her as PLUS size. I said basically what you said - that there was suddenly a big story in media and all over how they got a PLUS size model. And my point was that public opinion is skewed to be shocked to see a woman that is healthy weight in such a fashion campaign.
The images you posted said Calvin Klein signed their first plus-size model. No, they didn't - they signed an "in-betweener" who normally modeled plus-size lingerie. She wasn't modeling a plus-size line for Calvin Klein, and most of the images posted in the OP are not her plus-size work. I know you didn't write the captions for the photos, but the captions are implying something that isn't accurate. I think some people in this thread are missing the distinction between modeling as plus-size by using enhancements vs. actually being plus-size, or that the CK campaign wasn't a plus-size one.
Ok, I get what you mean. I didn't make the picture post and I agree it has info more like media was displaying it rather than what is the reality.0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Unless for some medical reason, that might excuse someone via a doctor's note (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/09/21/woman-eats-every-15-minutes-to-keep-up-60-pound-frame/); there should be limits on how low and high someone's allowed to be, with the exception of those that're muscular (bodybuilders) because they're healthy but're also obviously above a normal BMI.
If a company manufactures clothes in my size (US 14), then they (Victoria's Secret, etc.) should also have models representing that size; since I am also their target consumer. Since the purpose of the model, is to show how the clothing'll look on the consumer. When ordering my size online I've had to return (at my expense) or save the merchandise (in hopes that it'd eventually look appropriate, when I got rid of some weight). This is unacceptable because most of the time, this is avoidable if models of all of the sizes available; were modeling those sizes. It's unfathomable to expect me to determine, how the same style dress on a size 4 model'll look in my size 14. If they don't desire to have models above a size 4, then they shouldn't offer their products; for sizes over that.
Why are bodybuilders automatically healthy?
It's also been mentioned several times in this thread, the purpose of models is not necessarily to show how the clothing will look on the consumer.
Even if they had a size 14 model modelling a size 14 dress, that doesn't mean that is how the dress will look like on you since there is a wide variation in weight distribution. Someone else had a pretty good explaination earlier in the thread.0 -
How the heck is she plus size? She's gorgeous.0
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auzziecawth wrote: »How the heck is she plus size? She's gorgeous.
how does her being plus size mean she's not attractive?3 -
As far as the actual size of actual human people go she's among the thinnest. It's now trendy to be inclusive but things like this aren't inclusive. They're saying that if you're her size you're plus size, which by any other fashion retailer would be false.0
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JessicaMcB wrote: »MakePeasNotWar wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »devil_in_a_blue_dress wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »I find her stats kind of confusing honestly as mine are similar and I'm a size 2-4 depending on brand. She's an inch taller and 8 pounds heavier and yet several sizes larger...very curious. Otherwise though, I have no effs to give- one of my cousins has been doing high fashion modelling for more than a decade, Italian Vogue, the works and if you stood her next to this lady the plus sized model would LOOK plus sized. I look at it as a comparative term, she can't be too disparaged by it given how much money she's making off being the pinnacle of all this buzz.
They are likely talking about European sizing.
But even then a US 2/4 is a UK 4/6, how is she a 10? Maybe she has really ample hips or something and that accounts for it but its confusing imo and makes me wonder if she's actually a smaller size and they're just playing up the plus size angle by saying she's a 10.
I'm 5'9" and 146, and my measurements are between 8 and 10 US. If you read through the height/weight/size threads, you'll see it's not unusual.
I'm guessing it's probably frame size. I have a fairly wide pelvis and broad shoulders, so even at the low end of the BMI scale (128 lbs at my lowest) I could never fit into anything smaller than a 6.
Maybe I'm the bizarre one then, just seemed weird. I'd say maybe I'm buying some crazy vanity sized clothing but I'm consistently a 26-27 inch or 2/4 in jeans everywhere I've gone
. But another reason we shouldn't give these labels so much power, they don't seem to mean much (other than this chick is making bank haha).
I'm 5'11, 159 lbs and between an 8 and 10 as well. I am also very big framed. I have to special order shoes, and no matter how thin I get, my wrists, hands and shoulders don't shrink!0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »KorvapuustiPossu wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »i'm sorry but this is ridiculous.
She is a plus size MODEL. Of course she looks good. this is irrelevant.
I just want to say that this mentality you are talking about is just silly. Listen, the fact of the matter is... 70.2% of people in the united states are overweight. Of that almost half are seriously obese. Let's please drop the "think of the children!" argument, because the fact of the matter is 70% are likely to be fat once they reach adulthood and only 4% may develop an eating disorder during their lifetime.
I'm not okay with models who are clearly suffering from anorexia, but i'm perfectly fine with a healthy model who is a size 0 modeling clothes. The whole reason they are models is because they fill a specific standard of beauty. They are generally their size because this is how clothing designers want their outfits portrayed (draped). And this is really only in high-fashion modeling.
Look at the angels... notice anything similar?
there are plenty of models whom we would consider "normal" size who model clothing, do advertisements, and more.
What we don't need is people confusing the fact that the above women is modeling plus size clothing (size 10). It is what it is.
More and more as we get fatter and fatter as a society we are becoming more and more conditioned to seeing very large people all the time. this is not how human bodies were designed. Period. Why do they pick a woman who wears a size 10 as their plus size model vs someone who is "actually fat" like, say, tess holiday?
Because she is still an appropriately sized human being within a healthy weight range. Her proportions fit her body. She has the desired hourglass shape which highlights the clothing she wears. Her body is still young and glowing. And she radiates health.
If we had genuinely obese people modeling clothing, quite frankly no one would buy anything. Models don't sell us the clothing; they sell us the idea of how we'll look in the clothing.
It's also important to mention that as we have low body fat the variations seen in body type are very very minimal. this means that a small model of similar height will look the same as other models of similar height which means they portray clothing the same.
The fatter you get the more body type is apparent, no two fat people hold fat in the exact same places. What does that mean? it means that they cannot model plus size clothing consistently as clothing makers cannot make clothing that looks consistent on fatter people. Someone may hold their fat in the stomach, legs, butt, chest, etc. Clothing therefore has to be tailored to their specific body measurements.
Let's next talk about the fact that a model like myla can actually show off women's clothing. Whereas someone like tess:
You can see they have to use posing manipulation to get her to actually show the clothing and not just look like a giant blob. You'll commonly see side shots, hand on the hip to accentuate a false waist, leg popped out to the side to accentuate a false curve, feet apart to give the illusion of an hourglass figure, and more. Someone like tess cannot even stand with feet together, with arms straight at the side, etc. like myla can because her anatomy doesn't even allow it. See Below for an example:
The fact is, they will always pick someone like Myla to model plus size clothing instead of someone who is obese because her body type MODELS better than someone who is obese. She sells the idea, she drapes clothing, her body radiates beauty and health.
As far as models which are "too skinny", there are more and more regulations being put into place to keep models who are TOO thin off the runways. Being too-thin is now less desirable. This doesn't mean we should have "average people" models (for the reasons i provided). And it doesn't mean that plus size isn't plus size just because the model is not visibly "fat".
edit: my point is the whole point of a models job is to make clothing look good and to be beautiful but not too distracting. They will always pick women who show clothing the best and who represent the "beauty" they are trying to project. You will not see "average" looking people, older people, the "dad bod", the obese, the unhealthy, the crippled, and more selling high end clothing because it does not reflect the artistic vision for these items.
Is it OK if we think she's pretty? :headscratch:
obviously? like i said... she's a model isn't she?
I was only addressing the nonsense from the original post.
Nonsense from original post? I do not think you understood me at all. I was addressing the fact that woman with BMI 21 is being called PLUS, big and similar. Their model from previous campaign in 1.8 m tall and 50 kg (BMI 16.5). I'm not say we should have overweight models (this one is not) I'm saying not to put UNDERWEIGHT models.
And about angels, just because you think they look healthy does not mean that they actually are:
Adriana Lima BMI 17.6
Alessandra Ambrosio BMI 16.5
Behati Prinslo BMI 16.7
.... for more: http://thevsangelz.tumblr.com/measurements-and-description
And they are one of the more 'normal looking' models around. Being underweight carries many health risks. Actually it is healthier to be couple kg overweight rather than underweight.
I am basically saying they should not be promoting anything unhealthy.
She is big because of her height and the fact that she wear size 10 clothing. not because she's fat. She IS plus sized.
And as stated, they need models to be thin because they actually "model" clothing. And as stated, yet again, 70% of people are overweight, 35% are OBESE. The measly 4% of women who *may* develop an eating disorder in their lifetime is NOTHING compared to the damaging health effects of obesity on our society.
I'm not saying anorexic models are good, i'm saying that we shouldn't have "normal" looking high fashion models because it makes no sense.
I think that's the key right there. Even though she's not fat, her build puts her into the double digit sizes. After I lost my first few pounds last year, I could wear my size 10 Calvins again but I was still fat. I have a more petite frame but higher body fat. I think most of us would agree that my build is much more common than hers. That's why she's the model and not me.
Even now, in a size 4, I have too much body fat. I get the comments about how I don't need to lose any more weight. But, I do! Just because I can wear a smaller size doesn't mean I don't have too much fat. I wouldn't make a good model because certain ways I would stand might not make the clothes look so great. Nobody is going to rush out to buy clothes in a magazine that show the girls belly roll when she sits down or bends over. But if I don't sit up straight, I can make my size 4's look very unflattering.
So anyway, they find someone with just the right build that can wear the larger size but without the bulges and rolls. That's why some people are using the term plus sized in regards to this model. I was wearing those size 10 Calvin Klein jeans almost 30 pounds ago. I was certainly plus sized.
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