Eating more later in the day?
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kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Now sugar makes us stupid? I understand most of his points. I just don't agree with them. I don't believe sugar is evil, nor do I believe carbs make people hungrier.0 -
kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Disagreeing with him =/= not bright enough to understand it. My sugar brain is functioning just fine.2 -
TravisGM92 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »jwcanfield wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »Other than that, it is scientifically known that eating sugar promotes the urge to eat even MORE sugar or carbs. So, I have to ask, what do you eat for breakfast? If it has sugar then that could be your problem. Try eating more complex carbs with a good amount of protein (oatmeal and eggs, scrambled eggs, omelets, low carb milk and high protein cereal, etc.)
Sugar promotes the urge to eat more sugar? This is 'scientifically known?' Please provide us your sources for this claim.
Also sounds like the OP already eats a good, healthy breakfast.
Sugar is not the devil.
Sugar is the devil. We don't need sugar and it's been known to be just as addictive as cocaine: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/08/23/is-sugar-more-addictive-than-cocaine.aspx, also: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/#2275a5184b7b.
As for the claim that eating sugar promotes the urge to eat more sugar; https://authoritynutrition.com/how-sugar-makes-you-addicted/.
I can provide more citations if needed.
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but "Dr." Mercola is a complete quack. You stated that sugar being evil is "scientifically known." Neither of those two 'sources' have anything to do with legitimate peer-reviewed science.
So first off, I didn't claim the fact that "sugar is the devil" as scientifically know. I claimed that it's scientifically known that eating sugar or simple carbs promotes the urge to eat more sugar or carbs.
Secondly, did you even look at the links? This is the original study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/. Click on that, read it. Then come back and tell me I don't have scientific backing.
I'm not a rat! LOL Really!!
Well, no *kitten* you're not a rat. These studies are meant to suggest that sugar is very addictive. Rats don't have as addictive qualities as humans. Do you know how many medical break throughs have been made by using rats as study subjects first?
But the studies were done with rats.
Many studies start with lab rats - human trials follow. Everything from the effects of saccharine to carcinogenics. So a rat-based study is not to be dismissed quickly. To reference one isn't calling a person a rat - that's just the way it's done.
Thank you. Someone who understands the process of science. I know you aren't necessarily siding with me on the other topics but we can agree on the process of science. Whew....
You seem to be missing a step, however. It only becomes scientific evidence applicable to humans when and if the study progresses beyond the lab rat stage and is actually proven in human clinical trials.
So although a study involving rats and sugar and cocaine might hold promise of translating across the species barrier, until and unless those trials actually take place, this remains nothing more than a theory and is not the scientific evidence you would have us believe.
You're both taking my comments out of context and missing the point I was trying to make.
1.) An OP consistently made the claim that the study was of rats, and not humans therefore it can't be applied to humans. I know that humans aren't rats. That isn't the point of me bringing it up. The point was that sugar can be addictive and that the body does not need sugar. I was pointing to the original OP that IF they ate sugar in the mornings, that's an IF as in THEORETICAL, it COULD POSSIBLY cause more hunger because of how other animals have reacted to sugar. THEORETICAL, IF and COULD.
2.) IF the OP is struggling with increasing hunger as the day goes on, and IF sugar could cause hunger to increase, then the OP COULD try to AVOID sugar to see if that stops the increasing hunger.
As for the comment "sugar is the devil": sugar is not, whatsoever needed in a healthy diet. Is not. This isn't meant to say "in order to lose weight one must avoid sugar", which is something the other OP's kept confusing.
The study SUGGESTED (as studies do) that sugar COULD HAVE addictive qualities. Isn't definitive, it isn't proven, it's just a suggestion. And as a side note studies don't ever prove anything. They only add to scientific evidence. Gravity itself is still just a theory. Meaning, someone could come up with evidence that it MIGHT NOT be true. This is how science works, this is what I was saying.
I can't cite it but it's known in the scientific, fitness community that carbs cause hunger to increase. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
If you don't take Lyle McDonald's word, then I don't have anything to say to you.
Curious. Did you read the link? Looking for "the sugar is bad" in link.
This isn't the link for the "sugar is bad" claim. This link is related to the fact that eating carbs makes you want to eat more carbs.
Except that Lyle correctly states that it's the increased protein that promotes the satiety and not the decreased carbohydrate content.
Later in the article he mentions this:
"Many people seem to show what might be popularly called ‘carbohydrate addiction’ (a term that is massively debated among obesity researchers) where eating even small amounts of carbs makes them want to eat more. In that case, a full blown removal of carbohydrates from the diet may be the only realistic way to limit caloric intake."
If Lyle believed that this were a common issue he would very likely prescribe ketogenic diets to everyone.
Regardless of whether he believes it to be a common issue, I was citing the fact that he believes it to be true for at least some people. That was the point I was making.
Point: many people believe that eating carbs causes you to want to eat more carbs. That's it.2 -
kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.1 -
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kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Now sugar makes us stupid? I understand most of his points. I just don't agree with them. I don't believe sugar is evil, nor do I believe carbs make people hungrier.
You're right. But particular carbs increase cravings though, it's no secret. 9 times out of 10 I'm likely to want another cookie if I eat one.1 -
BodyzLanguage wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Now sugar makes us stupid? I understand most of his points. I just don't agree with them. I don't believe sugar is evil, nor do I believe carbs make people hungrier.
You're right. But particular carbs increase cravings though, it's no secret. 9 times out of 10 I'm likely to want another cookie if I eat one.
^^ which more people have also reported. Thank you. And for the record I didn't claim anywhere that eating sugar makes you stupid...1 -
BodyzLanguage wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Now sugar makes us stupid? I understand most of his points. I just don't agree with them. I don't believe sugar is evil, nor do I believe carbs make people hungrier.
You're right. But particular carbs increase cravings though, it's no secret. 9 times out of 10 I'm likely to want another cookie if I eat one.
Clearly you are eating the wrong cookies:
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Another source that I found just by searching for a few minutes: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2013/06/26/ajcn.113.064113.abstract
Yes, the study is on men. It's not conclusive for women but it's suggestive.
Again, because it seems like people on this thread don't read very well. The point I was making early on is if the original OP was eating sugar in the morning, or afternoon, that could cause hunger cravings towards the evening. Yes, I know they didn't express an issue with sugar. That is besides the point.1 -
TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.0 -
TravisGM92 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »geneticsteacher wrote: »Not avoiding sugar also allows you to lose weight, if you are still within your calorie range.
Bingo.
I'm not sure if I'm not being clear or just being attacked cause I mentioned sugar.
Yes, you can still lose weight if you eat sugar and stay within your caloric range. I didn't suggest the opposite.
Again, for the third time, I suggested that eating sugar can cause you to be more hungry, thus making you want to eat more.
"I don't avoid sugar. Heck I'm baking brownies right now. I've lost 44lbs. Without avoiding sugar. Of any kind."
Cool. Good for you! I didn't say avoid sugar in order to lose weight. I said avoiding sugar allows you to lose weight. That doesn't mean "avoiding sugar is the only way to lose weight"
In response, any food can make you feel more hungry. It is not a sugar thing, it is a food thing.
Also, you are missing to point others are making. Rat and mouse studies can only be stretched so far as evidence. They are usually used not because they are amazingly great options for human studies, but because they are similar enough to decide what human studies are worth doing. Frequently enough when something proves true in rat studies and they are followed by primate or human studies, the observations don't follow through. By saying something is "scientifically known" you are giving more weight to rat studies than reputable scientists and doctors would.
Better advise would be for people to pay attention to what makes them as and individual feel like eating more, because that varies from person to person.6 -
rileysowner wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »geneticsteacher wrote: »Not avoiding sugar also allows you to lose weight, if you are still within your calorie range.
Bingo.
I'm not sure if I'm not being clear or just being attacked cause I mentioned sugar.
Yes, you can still lose weight if you eat sugar and stay within your caloric range. I didn't suggest the opposite.
Again, for the third time, I suggested that eating sugar can cause you to be more hungry, thus making you want to eat more.
"I don't avoid sugar. Heck I'm baking brownies right now. I've lost 44lbs. Without avoiding sugar. Of any kind."
Cool. Good for you! I didn't say avoid sugar in order to lose weight. I said avoiding sugar allows you to lose weight. That doesn't mean "avoiding sugar is the only way to lose weight"
In response, any food can make you feel more hungry. It is not a sugar thing, it is a food thing.
Also, you are missing to point others are making. Rat and mouse studies can only be stretched so far as evidence. They are usually used not because they are amazingly great options for human studies, but because they are similar enough to decide what human studies are worth doing. Frequently enough when something proves true in rat studies and they are followed by primate or human studies, the observations don't follow through. By saying something is "scientifically known" you are giving more weight to rat studies than reputable scientists and doctors would.
Better advise would be for people to pay attention to what makes them as and individual feel like eating more, because that varies from person to person.
Sure, mice and humans differ quite a bit. But what the other OP's are missing is that it is commonly known in the fitness industry that carbs can stimulate hunger more. A study that has humans: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2013/06/26/ajcn.113.064113.abstract0 -
TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.
No. They said they are hungry at dinnertime. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.
No. They said they are hungry at dinnertime. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
I didn't consider it a bad thing, their concern is that they are hungry at dinner time and mentioned how they notice a pattern that they eat more. Let me break it down to elementary:
ASSUMING carbs/sugar can make you more hungry... (more carbs early in the day) + time = more hunger and eating towards the evening.
MEANING: it's possible that an ingestion of simple carbohydrates earlier on in the day could cause the OP to eat more in the evening because they are feeling more hungry due to the carbs they ate earlier.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.
No. They said they are hungry at dinnertime. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
ETA The original post was about meal timing and had nothing to do with carbs or sugar. The whole "breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, dinner like a pauper" rule is still on blast out in woo woo land. Not sure how you twisted that into an excuse to go on an anti-sugar rant.
? It's not an anti-sugar rant. I'm attempting to give a possible explanation as to why they may be feeling more hungry and eating more in the evening. They talked about why they might be more hungry and eating in the evening so I provided a possible explanation as to why that might be happening. Eating simple carbohydrates in the early day can cause one to have more hunger cravings. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2013/06/26/ajcn.113.064113.abstract
That could explain why they eat more in the evening. They gave one example of a breakfast.1 -
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TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.
No. They said they are hungry at dinnertime. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
ETA The original post was about meal timing and had nothing to do with carbs or sugar. The whole "breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, dinner like a pauper" rule is still on blast out in woo woo land. Not sure how you twisted that into an excuse to go on an anti-sugar rant.
? It's not an anti-sugar rant. I'm attempting to give a possible explanation as to why they may be feeling more hungry and eating more in the evening. They talked about why they might be more hungry and eating in the evening so I provided a possible explanation as to why that might be happening. Eating simple carbohydrates in the early day can cause one to have more hunger cravings. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2013/06/26/ajcn.113.064113.abstract
That could explain why they eat more in the evening. They gave one example of a breakfast.
They are feeling hungry in the evening because they're eating light during the day and there's nothing wrong with that. End of story. No analysis needed.7 -
TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »TravisGM92 wrote: »kickassketo wrote: »TravisGM, I'm with you. I think all the sugar in their diets, correlated with their inability to understand your point, is clear anecdotal evidence that sugar is the devil.
Oh my goodness you are so funny I just can't contain my laughter over here.
On another point; the "sugar is devil" phrase is meant not to be taken literally. I don't think sugar is the devil; I don't think sugar will kill all people or is the worse thing in the world. The point I was making, and am still making, is that sugar is not required in any healthy diet. You could stop eating sugar now and never eat it again for years and be just fine.
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
Awesome. And this has what to do with the original post?
IF sugar can cause someone to want to eat more carbs, the OP (if they were eating sugar in the morning) would experience more hunger throughout the day thereby answering their original question/concern of why they have increased hunger in the evening.
The OP was posting about a concern of noticing a pattern of eating more in the evening.
No. They said they are hungry at dinnertime. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
I didn't consider it a bad thing, their concern is that they are hungry at dinner time and mentioned how they notice a pattern that they eat more. Let me break it down to elementary:
ASSUMING carbs/sugar can make you more hungry... (more carbs early in the day) + time = more hunger and eating towards the evening.
MEANING: it's possible that an ingestion of simple carbohydrates earlier on in the day could cause the OP to eat more in the evening because they are feeling more hungry due to the carbs they ate earlier.
They are hungry at dinner time because they eat less through the day for various reasons, (information provided in the original post), they eat more at dinner because they have eaten less through the day, (again information provided in the original post), the original posters question was does it make any difference in terms of weight loss when they eat their calories, the answer is no it doesn't. Their struggle is that they have the desire to eat too much because everyone else is eating a lot at dinner. That struggle is understandable. There are many ways to deal with it, probably most helpful is eating lots of lower calorie veggies without sauce or butter letting their volume fill the person up. Other options are eat really slowly so they don't finish eating before everyone else. I am sure there are other things as well, but the hunger seems, based on context, to be one, honest hunger, and the struggle seems to be more of a psychological issue of the connection eating together brings.
Your assumptions seem to be pushing far beyond the available evidence, both in the original post and from the "science" out there.5
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