185 lbs to 175lbs was a BUST lost more muscle than anything.

12-13% is not a happy place for me during a cut. It is too high before I get to the "illusion of big" from increased striations and improved proportionality, and that coupled with glycogen depletion just makes me feel tiny. If you really lost 9 lbs of muscle protein mass, your lifts would be tanking.

Michael190lbs wrote: »

I'll see if I can't find some carbs I can incorporate into my diet and agree I'm sure I didn't lose 9lbs of muscle it just felt like it.

I lost the weight equally over the course of 8 weeks so not a dramatic one night or even week loss.

Question: I thought all calories were the same and that after the excess protein and Fat calories (Macro minimums) my body couldn't use would be stored and used as Glycogen for energy just like Carbs do? Is this wrong? I understand Carbs can work faster for energy especially in a marathon but am I wrong in thinking a calorie is not just a calorie when it comes to a cut and maintaining muscle?

Thank you
By Macro minimums I mean 150 grams protein and 100 grams fat rest of calories are from any source I choose.

If you are time-average in caloric deficit, then nothing is getting stored. You don't have enough energy intake to even maintain your current body mass. GNG will ramp up with high protein diet (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19640952), but that extra glucose is going straight to energy needs, not getting stored in any significant amount. Just being in energy deficit will affect your glycogen reserves, but relying on GNG alone with severe carb restriction during deficit is going to have even more of an impact on your glycogen reserves. GNG is metabolically expensive, so building excessive glycogen reserves during energy deficit is not a priority. This is why people dump water weight immediately on starting keto (before any real fat loss even occurs), and high-carb diet helps power-related performance during caloric deficit:
https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2007-1024662
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/56/1/292S.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365988
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/43490306_Effects_of_Carbohydrate_Restriction_on_Strength_Performance

Have you tried a carb refeed? I only see one day in your picture of your carb intake that looks like you got a decent amount of carbs for your stats and activity level. Try a carb refeed day at slightly over caloric maintenance, keeping your protein and fat really low, and eat mostly carbs (keep well-hydrated too). Pay attention to how you look and feel the day after, maybe even 2 days after. This might change your opinion on how much muscle mass you have actually lost. Nothing wrong with a low-carb approach to losing weight, glycogen depletion is just one of the consequences.

Michael190lbs wrote: »

Thank you all

I will look into the glycogen depletion sounds pretty spot on for what I did to myself!! Live and learn!!

Yeah i know it's a few days late, but from reading I'd guess you're just depleted. You don't have to be keto to have muscle glycogen depletion with the amount of exercise you're doing. A lot of people feel like their muscles get "flat" while doing keto, and that's from depletion.

If you want to do a carb cycle, take one day an go with 1000 calories of just carbs (in addition to your normal protein intake, keep fats down on that day though )in the course of about 4 hours. I used mainly bagels and waffles, it's weird because it feels like you're binging. That next day you'll probably gain at least 5lbs, and your muscles will probably look much "fuller".

Pretty good discussion on it here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10320115/cutting-techniques-post-bulk/p1
If you are doing keto, you may benefit from refeeding more often than someone on moderate carbs, but obviously it will kick you out of keto for awhile.

Michael190lbs wrote: »

Ok 30 days later kept carbs above 200 everyday and calories 2800-3500 put on a measly 2lbs but muscles blew back up so depleted was more than likely correct.

I don't want to weigh any less but want to Lower my body fat percentage this is called recomp right? So as long as I refeed once a week with Carbs and keep my calories around 2800-3200 is this possible? I have NO problem with energy hell I could ride a bike 20 miles a day 7 days a week and still lift weights 6 days a week energy is just something I have.. NOT bragging.

Thank you Mike

Yes that is the definition of a recomp. I would say that recomping when you are already lean is very slow and laborious. If you really want to get lean (sub 10%) then you will need a calorie deficit as the body has minimal fat stores to use for energy.

Your plan to re-feed once a week is a good plan to replenish glycogen in the muscles.