Carbs
Options
Replies
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Medically speaking, that is wrong. Carbs are anti catabolic, muscle sparring and prevent protein degradation. If you do very low carb you have to rely on high amounts of protein to maintain muscle mass. And if you have moderate carbs, adequste protein and adequate training stimulate you have a chance to gain muscle during weight loss. Harder to do so in very low carb diets.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
Ketone bodies
As noted above, the liver produces ketone bodies during a VLCARB and they flow from the liver to extra-hepatic tissues (e.g., brain, muscle) for use as a fuel. In addition, ketone bodies exert a restraining influence on muscle protein breakdown. If the muscle is plentifully supplied with other substrates for oxidation (such as fatty acids and ketone bodies, in this case), then the oxidation of muscle protein-derived amino acids is suppressed. Nair et al. reported that beta-hydroxybutyrate (beta-OHB, a major ketone body) decreases leucine oxidation and promotes protein synthesis in humans [7]. Although blood concentrations of beta-OHB in their subjects during the infusion of beta-OHB were much lower than concentrations observed in humans during fasting, leucine incorporation into skeletal muscle showed a significant increase (5 to 17%).
@psulemon while there may be other factors that makes no carb or very low carb (ketogenic way of eating) medically protein sparing this is the most simple factor in my mind. I understand how little info about Low Carb High Fat way of eating is available because medically speaking there is little conventional training on the subject I learned two years ago. I have markedly increased my muscle mass over the past year relative to my starting point eating about 50 grams of carbs daily and 70-80 grams of protein daily and walking a 1/4 mile daily plus daily living with an office job eating around 2500 calories daily.
Below is one non dietary protein source for people eating very low carb as in <50 grams of carbs daily.
Chaperone-mediated autophagy.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18425454
Abstract
Chaperone-mediated autophagy (CMA) is the only type of autophagy in mammalian cells able to selectively degrade cytosolic proteins in lysosomes. CMA is maximally activated in response to stressors such as prolonged starvation, exposure to toxic compounds, or oxidative stress. We have found that CMA activity decreases in aging and in some age-related disorders such as Parkinson's disease. Impaired CMA under these conditions may be responsible for the accumulation of damaged proteins inside cells and for their higher vulnerability to stressors.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15325583
Below is another reason I do LCHF hoping to prevent Parkinson's disease and a host of other potential health risks.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27413575
Parkinsons Dis. 2016;2016:2613401. doi: 10.1155/2016/2613401. Epub 2016 Jun 16.
Chaperone-Mediated Autophagy and Mitochondrial Homeostasis in Parkinson's Disease.
Yang R1, Gao G1, Mao Z2, Yang Q1.
Abstract
Parkinson's disease (PD), a complex neurodegenerative disorder, is pathologically characterized by the formation of Lewy bodies and loss of dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra pars compacta (SNc). Mitochondrial dysfunction is considered to be one of the most important causative mechanisms. In addition, dysfunction of chaperone-mediated autophagy (CMA), one of the lysosomal proteolytic pathways, has been shown to play an important role in the pathogenesis of PD. An exciting and important development is recent finding that CMA and mitochondrial quality control may be linked. This review summarizes the studies revealing the link between autophagy and mitochondrial function. Discussions are focused on the connections between CMA and mitochondrial failure and on the role of MEF2D, a neuronal survival factor, in mediating the regulation of mitochondria in the context of CMA. These new findings highlight the need to further explore the possibility of targeting the MEF2D-mitochondria-CMA network in both understanding the PD pathogenesis and developing novel therapeutic strategies.
To improve mitochondrial health and count I also add PQQ to my diet.
As you can research and read LCHF is not a weight loss program but one way for some to perhaps restore failing health and longevity. Below are my lab numbers for my Low Carb High Fat WOE history to show how LCHF has improved my health markers from two years ago.
Pre LCHF (two years ago) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 226
HDL - 38
LDL - 146
Triglycerides - 209
9 months of LCHF (one year ago) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 404
HDL - 56
LDL - 323
Triglycerides - 121
17 months of LCHF (today) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 257
HDL - 63
LDL - 186
Triglycerides - 36
You should probably read the whole study. Because it's states exactly what I said:
Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.
If you want to learn more about the difference between the different diets, I would really suggest the reads of Dr. Layne Norton. He is a professional body builder and utilizes a wide range of diets to achieve his goals.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html
^ I recognize the above is an article but it is well sourced.
and once you up the protein, it is no longer keto, correct?
Protein intake needs to be well over 200g, or towrads 300g, per day before it could affect ketosis. Most people won't hit hat.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
Medically speaking, that is wrong. Carbs are anti catabolic, muscle sparring and prevent protein degradation. If you do very low carb you have to rely on high amounts of protein to maintain muscle mass. And if you have moderate carbs, adequste protein and adequate training stimulate you have a chance to gain muscle during weight loss. Harder to do so in very low carb diets.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
Ketone bodies
As noted above, the liver produces ketone bodies during a VLCARB and they flow from the liver to extra-hepatic tissues (e.g., brain, muscle) for use as a fuel. In addition, ketone bodies exert a restraining influence on muscle protein breakdown. If the muscle is plentifully supplied with other substrates for oxidation (such as fatty acids and ketone bodies, in this case), then the oxidation of muscle protein-derived amino acids is suppressed. Nair et al. reported that beta-hydroxybutyrate (beta-OHB, a major ketone body) decreases leucine oxidation and promotes protein synthesis in humans [7]. Although blood concentrations of beta-OHB in their subjects during the infusion of beta-OHB were much lower than concentrations observed in humans during fasting, leucine incorporation into skeletal muscle showed a significant increase (5 to 17%).
@psulemon while there may be other factors that makes no carb or very low carb (ketogenic way of eating) medically protein sparing this is the most simple factor in my mind. I understand how little info about Low Carb High Fat way of eating is available because medically speaking there is little conventional training on the subject I learned two years ago. I have markedly increased my muscle mass over the past year relative to my starting point eating about 50 grams of carbs daily and 70-80 grams of protein daily and walking a 1/4 mile daily plus daily living with an office job eating around 2500 calories daily.
Below is one non dietary protein source for people eating very low carb as in <50 grams of carbs daily.
Chaperone-mediated autophagy.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18425454
Abstract
Chaperone-mediated autophagy (CMA) is the only type of autophagy in mammalian cells able to selectively degrade cytosolic proteins in lysosomes. CMA is maximally activated in response to stressors such as prolonged starvation, exposure to toxic compounds, or oxidative stress. We have found that CMA activity decreases in aging and in some age-related disorders such as Parkinson's disease. Impaired CMA under these conditions may be responsible for the accumulation of damaged proteins inside cells and for their higher vulnerability to stressors.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15325583
Below is another reason I do LCHF hoping to prevent Parkinson's disease and a host of other potential health risks.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27413575
Parkinsons Dis. 2016;2016:2613401. doi: 10.1155/2016/2613401. Epub 2016 Jun 16.
Chaperone-Mediated Autophagy and Mitochondrial Homeostasis in Parkinson's Disease.
Yang R1, Gao G1, Mao Z2, Yang Q1.
Abstract
Parkinson's disease (PD), a complex neurodegenerative disorder, is pathologically characterized by the formation of Lewy bodies and loss of dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra pars compacta (SNc). Mitochondrial dysfunction is considered to be one of the most important causative mechanisms. In addition, dysfunction of chaperone-mediated autophagy (CMA), one of the lysosomal proteolytic pathways, has been shown to play an important role in the pathogenesis of PD. An exciting and important development is recent finding that CMA and mitochondrial quality control may be linked. This review summarizes the studies revealing the link between autophagy and mitochondrial function. Discussions are focused on the connections between CMA and mitochondrial failure and on the role of MEF2D, a neuronal survival factor, in mediating the regulation of mitochondria in the context of CMA. These new findings highlight the need to further explore the possibility of targeting the MEF2D-mitochondria-CMA network in both understanding the PD pathogenesis and developing novel therapeutic strategies.
To improve mitochondrial health and count I also add PQQ to my diet.
As you can research and read LCHF is not a weight loss program but one way for some to perhaps restore failing health and longevity. Below are my lab numbers for my Low Carb High Fat WOE history to show how LCHF has improved my health markers from two years ago.
Pre LCHF (two years ago) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 226
HDL - 38
LDL - 146
Triglycerides - 209
9 months of LCHF (one year ago) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 404
HDL - 56
LDL - 323
Triglycerides - 121
17 months of LCHF (today) labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 257
HDL - 63
LDL - 186
Triglycerides - 36
You should probably read the whole study. Because it's states exactly what I said:
Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.
If you want to learn more about the difference between the different diets, I would really suggest the reads of Dr. Layne Norton. He is a professional body builder and utilizes a wide range of diets to achieve his goals.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html
^ I recognize the above is an article but it is well sourced.
and once you up the protein, it is no longer keto, correct?
Protein intake needs to be well over 200g, or towrads 300g, per day before it could affect ketosis. Most people won't hit hat.
I did not know that, thx!
0 -
Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health1 -
Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health
I have never seen that book before but maybe I'll see if the library has it. I have had many an argument with people who refuse to believe that carbs affect me in a terrible way. If I have more than say, 15-20 g of carbs at breakfast and lunch or high carb snacks, I get sleepy and sluggish and HUNGRY! People like to chalk it up to a discipline issue but it is so far from that it's crazy. It is an undeniable and insatiable hunger that has led to me stuffing my face pretty much for the entire day. I keep my carbs in a more reasonable range say 100 g -150 g and I do not have this problem. The carbs I choose now are about 90% nutritionally dense foods and maybe 10% could be considered junk.0 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health
I have never seen that book before but maybe I'll see if the library has it. I have had many an argument with people who refuse to believe that carbs affect me in a terrible way. If I have more than say, 15-20 g of carbs at breakfast and lunch or high carb snacks, I get sleepy and sluggish and HUNGRY! People like to chalk it up to a discipline issue but it is so far from that it's crazy. It is an undeniable and insatiable hunger that has led to me stuffing my face pretty much for the entire day. I keep my carbs in a more reasonable range say 100 g -150 g and I do not have this problem. The carbs I choose now are about 90% nutritionally dense foods and maybe 10% could be considered junk.
There are plenty of people that have issues with one dietary component or another (for my wife gluten is the main culprit). People who don't understand that, are ones who haven't ever had to deal with problems. I just laugh and move on when people think they know more than all my wife's medical team.2 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health
I have never seen that book before but maybe I'll see if the library has it. I have had many an argument with people who refuse to believe that carbs affect me in a terrible way. If I have more than say, 15-20 g of carbs at breakfast and lunch or high carb snacks, I get sleepy and sluggish and HUNGRY! People like to chalk it up to a discipline issue but it is so far from that it's crazy. It is an undeniable and insatiable hunger that has led to me stuffing my face pretty much for the entire day. I keep my carbs in a more reasonable range say 100 g -150 g and I do not have this problem. The carbs I choose now are about 90% nutritionally dense foods and maybe 10% could be considered junk.
There are plenty of people that have issues with one dietary component or another (for my wife gluten is the main culprit). People who don't understand that, are ones who haven't ever had to deal with problems. I just laugh and move on when people think they know more than all my wife's medical team.
So true! I'm working on just letting it roll and not debating. It's a work in progress! LOL!0 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health
I have never seen that book before but maybe I'll see if the library has it. I have had many an argument with people who refuse to believe that carbs affect me in a terrible way. If I have more than say, 15-20 g of carbs at breakfast and lunch or high carb snacks, I get sleepy and sluggish and HUNGRY! People like to chalk it up to a discipline issue but it is so far from that it's crazy. It is an undeniable and insatiable hunger that has led to me stuffing my face pretty much for the entire day. I keep my carbs in a more reasonable range say 100 g -150 g and I do not have this problem. The carbs I choose now are about 90% nutritionally dense foods and maybe 10% could be considered junk.
I have a similar problem. I have reactive hypogylcemia, and I carbs make me shaky a few hours after eating them, although I can do better if they're eaten as part of a large meal. I also tend to get hungry every few hours once I start eating. So, I now skip breakfast, then eat small snacks and meals every few hours starting at around 10am. And the majority of my carb intake is with or after dinner.1 -
Recommend everyone read Dr. Ludwig's Always Hungry on the question of carbohydrates and the metabolic role it has in weight gain with its effects on insulin in the body. I generally follow his recommendation (over 9 months now) without hunger or cravings and have lost 25 pounds. For a general overview here is a line:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/rethinking-weight-loss-and-the-reasons-were-always-hungry/?ref=health
I have no hunger and cravings and don't follow recommendations from Ludwig or worry about insulin (which plays an important role in a properly functioning body of getting the energy from carbs where it should go and rebuilding muscle with protein consumed). The idea that carbs cause hunger or cravings is not the case for everyone (I actually don't believe it's "carbs" in anyone--carbs are so varied, and lacking protein/balance can be a reason distinct from too many carbs, as can meal patterns, so on-- but I suppose the jury is out).
Edit: my reason for being skeptical is that this doesn't seem to have been a problem with people on a traditional diet, many of which are high carb and extremely healthy in terms of how they effect people.2 -
Eat everything you want in moderation but be aware of the calories. The closer you are to being `on a diet' - the stronger the urges are to fall off it. Cutting anything out long term is really not particularly sustainable.1
-
It's a matter of choices --I choose whole grain over refined grains, whole fruit and veggies over juice, so I get more fiber in your diet. I limit refined sugars in my diet, and use stevia or monk fruit for a sweetener (or Splenda if the others aren't available). I don't drink sugary sodas or drinks. But limiting doesn't mean I'm a fanatic about eliminating from my diet. And by the way, I've lost 70+ pounds without becoming fanatical about things. The key is the word alexpn used: moderation.
When I hear the phrase "integrative physician" I imagine I hear a flock of ducks quacking in the background -- don't know why.
0 -
I think certain people, personality types etc do well on low carb and some do not do well. In the end it will all work as long as calories are controlled and protein, training and recover are adequate. As always, what's the best diet? The one you can stick with...4
-
You absolutely should not cut out all carbs.
If interested in trying a lower-carbohydrate diet, try to include some fruits, vegetables, and whole grains for essential vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients. Also learn more about healthy diets for weight loss.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.9K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 400 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 989 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions