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queenliz99 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Cico is not for everyone. PCOS sufferer myself and in the same boat. I'm going in to get my thyroid tested next month and also thinking of doing a Leptin reset. Look into Leptin resistance. We all have factors that can lead to hormonal reasons our body isn't connecting to make our weight loss changes. Also a good read is forever fat loss. I'm done counting calories to get no where. Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs. Sounds like you have the clean eating down, just gotta find the other piece. Good luck
PCOS can work with CICO. It's just a matter of adjustment to the CO side. Because of abnormal hormones and whatnot, you burn fewer calories than a female without PCOS, but that can be adjusted for in the CICO equation. Many users on here with PCOS do that very thing. I would never try to tell you it was easy, but it can be done, healthily, and to your benefit with some adjustments. At the end of the day, weight loss will occur if you eat fewer calories than you burn, no matter your condition. It's getting those numbers right and working to your benefit that is individual and subject to issues like PCOS and Diabetes and metabolic disorders.
"Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs."
I dunno if this is entirely accurate. Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
"Clean eating" There is no evidence that eating certain foods over other foods makes people in general more healthy. It's all individual and subjective. What may be bad in one person's diet may be beneficial to another persons. A donut may be a good choice if you're low on carbs and kale may be a bad choice if you're lacking protein. What makes a food good or bad is entirely based on the context of the diet of the person who's eating it. And at this point, there doesn't seem to be one answer from any "clean eating" group or defender for what clean eating is. A vegan will tell you it's plant-based foods only, where a paleo-eater will balk at that and tell you you must eat plenty of meat too. What matters at the end of the day is a diet that makes you healthy, the individual, and for some people that's red meat and beer, and for others it's kale and quinoa. There's no one right way to do this, excepting perhaps the rule that you must eat fewer calories than you burn to lose weight.
Sorry, a donut is never a good choice. And yeah, if people want to try and lose weight and keep it off by eating the bare minimum and exercise double the amount. Go for it, it's just not sustainable. You agree with the abnormal hormones, so why not tackle the real issue instead of tirelessly working to mask that problem.
I don't see anywhere that she said to avoid dealing with the underlying medical issues but simply addressing hormones will NOT cause a weight loss you still need to put in the time and effort. Also, there are many people with PCOS that are not overweight and not taking medication for it and aren't necessarily starving and in the gym excessive periods of time.
Right, everyone's situation is different, I didn't say to get hormones checked and then throw everything else out the window. Just saying that might be the missing piece if she thinks everything else is in check. I am the same way. I watch what I eat, exercise everyday, and still have issues. It sounds like she's taking the steps to get everything checked soon so hopefully that'll help. Oh wait, never mind, she should eat 1000 calories of donuts and add an hour of cardio, that'll do it,
No one is advocating eating all donuts, all the time! No one!
Again, sarcasm. I just wouldn't tell someone that a donut is a good choice even if they did need carbs
So, weight loss includes a TON of factors to consider, and not all of them are purely nutritional. We're not robots, and nobody chooses the most nutritionally beneficial foods at all times. It's important to take all of the emotional and social factors into consideration as well, and it's important that we tell people that it's okay to think about those things when they make food choices.
Weight loss takes time. It almost always takes longer than you think it's going to, so at some point, adherence to your plan becomes a issue you need to tackle. Almost everyone gets to the point when they think that they can't take just one more freaking day. At that point, having the freedom to eat a doughnut can be really helpful. If eating 190 calories (the number of calories in one krispy kreme glazed, btw, not "thousands") of doughnut makes the difference between staying in your deficit or abandoning it, it's not only a good choice, it's the best choice.
And the insulin resistant will tell you that the donut sends you on a downward spiral leading to binges. So, not the best choice for everyone. Not sure why we're still talking about the donut, I reinforced the fact that OP eats clean, which does matter and that's awesome. I understand nothing is perfect though and that's fine.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I provided an alternate viewpoint because your original statement ("A donut is never a good choice") is inaccurate. There are people who are new to weight loss who really do believe that they have to eat "perfectly" (whatever the eff that means) in order to lose weight, so they white-knuckle through dieting for a little while, then give up when they inevitably "mess up" and eat one doughnut. Those people deserve to be told that it's okay for them to eat things on occasion just because they want them. They deserve actual information about how to lose weight, not just fear-mongering about how bad doughnuts are.
If you want to retroactively narrow your original statement to apply only to insulin-resistant people, that's a different conversation.4 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Cico is not for everyone. PCOS sufferer myself and in the same boat. I'm going in to get my thyroid tested next month and also thinking of doing a Leptin reset. Look into Leptin resistance. We all have factors that can lead to hormonal reasons our body isn't connecting to make our weight loss changes. Also a good read is forever fat loss. I'm done counting calories to get no where. Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs. Sounds like you have the clean eating down, just gotta find the other piece. Good luck
PCOS can work with CICO. It's just a matter of adjustment to the CO side. Because of abnormal hormones and whatnot, you burn fewer calories than a female without PCOS, but that can be adjusted for in the CICO equation. Many users on here with PCOS do that very thing. I would never try to tell you it was easy, but it can be done, healthily, and to your benefit with some adjustments. At the end of the day, weight loss will occur if you eat fewer calories than you burn, no matter your condition. It's getting those numbers right and working to your benefit that is individual and subject to issues like PCOS and Diabetes and metabolic disorders.
"Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs."
I dunno if this is entirely accurate. Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
"Clean eating" There is no evidence that eating certain foods over other foods makes people in general more healthy. It's all individual and subjective. What may be bad in one person's diet may be beneficial to another persons. A donut may be a good choice if you're low on carbs and kale may be a bad choice if you're lacking protein. What makes a food good or bad is entirely based on the context of the diet of the person who's eating it. And at this point, there doesn't seem to be one answer from any "clean eating" group or defender for what clean eating is. A vegan will tell you it's plant-based foods only, where a paleo-eater will balk at that and tell you you must eat plenty of meat too. What matters at the end of the day is a diet that makes you healthy, the individual, and for some people that's red meat and beer, and for others it's kale and quinoa. There's no one right way to do this, excepting perhaps the rule that you must eat fewer calories than you burn to lose weight.
Sorry, a donut is never a good choice. And yeah, if people want to try and lose weight and keep it off by eating the bare minimum and exercise double the amount. Go for it, it's just not sustainable. You agree with the abnormal hormones, so why not tackle the real issue instead of tirelessly working to mask that problem.
I don't see anywhere that she said to avoid dealing with the underlying medical issues but simply addressing hormones will NOT cause a weight loss you still need to put in the time and effort. Also, there are many people with PCOS that are not overweight and not taking medication for it and aren't necessarily starving and in the gym excessive periods of time.
Right, everyone's situation is different, I didn't say to get hormones checked and then throw everything else out the window. Just saying that might be the missing piece if she thinks everything else is in check. I am the same way. I watch what I eat, exercise everyday, and still have issues. It sounds like she's taking the steps to get everything checked soon so hopefully that'll help. Oh wait, never mind, she should eat 1000 calories of donuts and add an hour of cardio, that'll do it,
No one is advocating eating all donuts, all the time! No one!
Again, sarcasm. I just wouldn't tell someone that a donut is a good choice even if they did need carbs
So, weight loss includes a TON of factors to consider, and not all of them are purely nutritional. We're not robots, and nobody chooses the most nutritionally beneficial foods at all times. It's important to take all of the emotional and social factors into consideration as well, and it's important that we tell people that it's okay to think about those things when they make food choices.
Weight loss takes time. It almost always takes longer than you think it's going to, so at some point, adherence to your plan becomes a issue you need to tackle. Almost everyone gets to the point when they think that they can't take just one more freaking day. At that point, having the freedom to eat a doughnut can be really helpful. If eating 190 calories (the number of calories in one krispy kreme glazed, btw, not "thousands") of doughnut makes the difference between staying in your deficit or abandoning it, it's not only a good choice, it's the best choice.
And the insulin resistant will tell you that the donut sends you on a downward spiral leading to binges. So, not the best choice for everyone. Not sure why we're still talking about the donut, I reinforced the fact that OP eats clean, which does matter and that's awesome. I understand nothing is perfect though and that's fine.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I provided an alternate viewpoint because your original statement ("A donut is never a good choice") is inaccurate. There are people who are new to weight loss who really do believe that they have to eat "perfectly" (whatever the eff that means) in order to lose weight, so they white-knuckle through dieting for a little while, then give up when they inevitably "mess up" and eat one doughnut. Those people deserve to be told that it's okay for them to eat things on occasion just because they want them. They deserve actual information about how to lose weight, not just fear-mongering about how bad doughnuts are.
If you want to retroactively narrow your original statement to apply only to insulin-resistant people, that's a different conversation.
This thread has nothing to do with people new to weight loss either. But I guess if you look at every damn situation involving a donut it isn't always the worse choice, there you guys happy? Done here, this is stupid1 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
I'm sure the CDC would love this but not the case:
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with obesity: 37.9% (2013-2014)
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with overweight, including obesity: 70.7% (2013-2014)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
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Cico is not for everyone. PCOS sufferer myself and in the same boat. I'm going in to get my thyroid tested next month and also thinking of doing a Leptin reset. Look into Leptin resistance. We all have factors that can lead to hormonal reasons our body isn't connecting to make our weight loss changes. Also a good read is forever fat loss. I'm done counting calories to get no where. Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs. Sounds like you have the clean eating down, just gotta find the other piece. Good luck
Why We Get Fat, and Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, provides a counter-argument to CICO. And he's not the only one who believes this.
I do not have the science background to say he's right or he is wrong, but CICO is definitely not settled science.
From an unscientific prospective, I find it hard to believe that a long term diet that is 50% donuts and other junk provides the same weight loss as a diet that consists of hardly any donuts and other junk (calories being equal).
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If it makes you feel any better, I am about your height and currently striving to get to the weight you are at now, which would make me perfectly happy! It's all relative!0
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Cico is not for everyone. PCOS sufferer myself and in the same boat. I'm going in to get my thyroid tested next month and also thinking of doing a Leptin reset. Look into Leptin resistance. We all have factors that can lead to hormonal reasons our body isn't connecting to make our weight loss changes. Also a good read is forever fat loss. I'm done counting calories to get no where. Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs. Sounds like you have the clean eating down, just gotta find the other piece. Good luck
Why We Get Fat, and Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, provides a counter-argument to CICO. And he's not the only one who believes this.
I do not have the science background to say he's right or he is wrong, but CICO is definitely not settled science.
From an unscientific prospective, I find it hard to believe that a long term diet that is 50% donuts and other junk provides the same weight loss as a diet that consists of hardly any donuts and other junk (calories being equal).
Really? Well he asked for a single independent variable test and was given it and guess what? His theory didn't pan out. http://www.weightymatters.ca/2015/08/guest-post-dr-kevin-hall-asks-is.html
CICO is almost exclusively doubted by the outsiders like Taubes who have no background in nutritional science. If we started saying it wasn't settled because we have a few on the fringe casting stones then we might as well call it a day for evolution and pretty much all of cosmology.
As for your disbelief maybe you should Google the Twinkie diet and you'll see that weight has to do with energy balance. If you want to talk about nutritional value then we have another topic altogether.
ETA if we were here 20 years ago we would be arguing that eating a diet high in fat was dangerous because from a layperson's analysis that didn't seem like it made sense.4 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Cico is not for everyone. PCOS sufferer myself and in the same boat. I'm going in to get my thyroid tested next month and also thinking of doing a Leptin reset. Look into Leptin resistance. We all have factors that can lead to hormonal reasons our body isn't connecting to make our weight loss changes. Also a good read is forever fat loss. I'm done counting calories to get no where. Why is western culture so much worse than other countries. Hormones, processed foods, sleeping patterns, desk jobs. Sounds like you have the clean eating down, just gotta find the other piece. Good luck
Why We Get Fat, and Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, provides a counter-argument to CICO. And he's not the only one who believes this.
I do not have the science background to say he's right or he is wrong, but CICO is definitely not settled science.
From an unscientific prospective, I find it hard to believe that a long term diet that is 50% donuts and other junk provides the same weight loss as a diet that consists of hardly any donuts and other junk (calories being equal).
gary taubes was a journalist and has no PhD or background in nutrition or anything else for that matter, he has nothing to back up his claims either most of his stuff is outdated myths and broscience.hes not a credible source of info. and it is about CICO because even when I ate fast food,drank soda and what not and made it fit into my calories I still lost weight.3 -
A dead horse has been resurrected, it needs beating. LOL8
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queenliz99 wrote: »A dead horse has been resurrected, it needs beating. LOL
Where is the emoji when you need it!
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I was seeing merit aside from the donut ridiculousness to the hormone testing. The Gary Taubes was brought out as a voice of anti-CICO reason. LOL nope.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
I'm sure the CDC would love this but not the case:
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with obesity: 37.9% (2013-2014)
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with overweight, including obesity: 70.7% (2013-2014)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
Funny, it seems even the CDC can't get their numbers narrowed down
"More than one-third (36.5%) of U.S. adults have obesity. [Read CDC National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) data brief PDF-704KB]"
"Non-Hispanic blacks have the highest age-adjusted rates of obesity (48.1%) followed by Hispanics (42.5%), non-Hispanic whites (34.5%), and non-Hispanic Asians (11.7%). Obesity is higher among middle age adults age 40-59 years (40.2%) and older adults age 60 and over (37.0%) than among younger adults age 20–39 (32.3%)."
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Not that you're wrong, I obviously misspoke.0 -
How are we this far into this without the OP even opening her diary...? No secrets here please, how else are we meant to help?1
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MagicalGiraffe wrote: »How are we this far into this without the OP even opening her diary...? No secrets here please, how else are we meant to help?
Sometimes they don't come back. *shrug*1 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
I'm sure the CDC would love this but not the case:
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with obesity: 37.9% (2013-2014)
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with overweight, including obesity: 70.7% (2013-2014)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
Funny, it seems even the CDC can't get their numbers narrowed down
"More than one-third (36.5%) of U.S. adults have obesity. [Read CDC National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) data brief PDF-704KB]"
"Non-Hispanic blacks have the highest age-adjusted rates of obesity (48.1%) followed by Hispanics (42.5%), non-Hispanic whites (34.5%), and non-Hispanic Asians (11.7%). Obesity is higher among middle age adults age 40-59 years (40.2%) and older adults age 60 and over (37.0%) than among younger adults age 20–39 (32.3%)."
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Not that you're wrong, I obviously misspoke.
Depends on the timeframe you're looking at. The numbers above are from 2013-2014 the source for what you quoted was looking at 2011-2014. Probably taking the average over the years and since it's rising, looking only at 2013-14 gives a higher number than including earlier years where the numbers were still lower.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
I'm sure the CDC would love this but not the case:
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with obesity: 37.9% (2013-2014)
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with overweight, including obesity: 70.7% (2013-2014)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
Funny, it seems even the CDC can't get their numbers narrowed down
"More than one-third (36.5%) of U.S. adults have obesity. [Read CDC National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) data brief PDF-704KB]"
"Non-Hispanic blacks have the highest age-adjusted rates of obesity (48.1%) followed by Hispanics (42.5%), non-Hispanic whites (34.5%), and non-Hispanic Asians (11.7%). Obesity is higher among middle age adults age 40-59 years (40.2%) and older adults age 60 and over (37.0%) than among younger adults age 20–39 (32.3%)."
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Not that you're wrong, I obviously misspoke.
Depends on the timeframe you're looking at. The numbers above are from 2013-2014 the source for what you quoted was looking at 2011-2014. Probably taking the average over the years and since it's rising, looking only at 2013-14 gives a higher number than including earlier years where the numbers were still lower.
Is it still rising? I could swear I saw an article recently that said it was finally plateauing (giggle) but I cannot remember where. Must go find.... also pretty sure it was for one single age group... hopefully kids..0 -
It might? I dunno, I just assumed.0
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stevencloser wrote: »It might? I dunno, I just assumed.
I can't find it or anything that sounds like it and now I'm looking in the mirror questioning reality and aliens and false memories. Dang. Oh well.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Only 36% of the american population is overweight, only 6.3% are obese. That's not even close to a majority, so I don't think you can say the entire culture is the devil here.
I'm sure the CDC would love this but not the case:
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with obesity: 37.9% (2013-2014)
•Percent of adults age 20 years and over with overweight, including obesity: 70.7% (2013-2014)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
Funny, it seems even the CDC can't get their numbers narrowed down
"More than one-third (36.5%) of U.S. adults have obesity. [Read CDC National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) data brief PDF-704KB]"
"Non-Hispanic blacks have the highest age-adjusted rates of obesity (48.1%) followed by Hispanics (42.5%), non-Hispanic whites (34.5%), and non-Hispanic Asians (11.7%). Obesity is higher among middle age adults age 40-59 years (40.2%) and older adults age 60 and over (37.0%) than among younger adults age 20–39 (32.3%)."
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Not that you're wrong, I obviously misspoke.
Depends on the timeframe you're looking at. The numbers above are from 2013-2014 the source for what you quoted was looking at 2011-2014. Probably taking the average over the years and since it's rising, looking only at 2013-14 gives a higher number than including earlier years where the numbers were still lower.
Is it still rising? I could swear I saw an article recently that said it was finally plateauing (giggle) but I cannot remember where. Must go find.... also pretty sure it was for one single age group... hopefully kids..
Yes, but the rate of increase has slowed recently it seems. It's hard to say if there is some type of natural cap to the rate or not. You also have to remember that a large percentage of the population is on a diet to lose weight at anytime so that could mean the true rate is actually hidden.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k00anSFA4-Y
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