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Should junk food be taxed?
Replies
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.
I don't disagree with your point, but I think the bolded is unfair. In the article you linked to, they said that when the cafeteria makes it's own healthier food, no one buys it. They are supplying the demand so they can make some money, yes. But unless students are forced to eat healthy food the cafeteria is serving, and parents are teaching the same lessons at home, the schools are kind of caught in a pickle - make healthy food and have to throw it out because no one buys it, or serve tweaked branded food and make money to help fund school meal programs for low income children. It stinks that those are their choices, but it's not that they don't care about health.3 -
I'm not so sure the schools are making what they advertise....this may be an isolated case but a student did an undercover documentary about his pathetic school lunches where he compares the meal advertised on the menu with video footage of what he was served. It's a real eye opener.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/06/27/school-lunch-program.aspx.
It's worth watching as it mirrors the complaints my kids had about the food at school...how it didn't even resemble what was on the menu.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.
I don't disagree with your point, but I think the bolded is unfair. In the article you linked to, they said that when the cafeteria makes it's own healthier food, no one buys it. They are supplying the demand so they can make some money, yes. But unless students are forced to eat healthy food the cafeteria is serving, and parents are teaching the same lessons at home, the schools are kind of caught in a pickle - make healthy food and have to throw it out because no one buys it, or serve tweaked branded food and make money to help fund school meal programs for low income children. It stinks that those are their choices, but it's not that they don't care about health.
I agree, it's unfair to say that schools don't care about student health. I can tell you that even in schools with no fast food or a la carte options, all of the apples and vegetables end up in the trash. The school is stuck between throwing money away buying the fruit/vegetables that they know will end up not getting eaten, or getting criticized for not providing any healthy items for students because they used the fruit/veggie money to provide pizza and chicken nuggets.
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.
I don't disagree with your point, but I think the bolded is unfair. In the article you linked to, they said that when the cafeteria makes it's own healthier food, no one buys it. They are supplying the demand so they can make some money, yes. But unless students are forced to eat healthy food the cafeteria is serving, and parents are teaching the same lessons at home, the schools are kind of caught in a pickle - make healthy food and have to throw it out because no one buys it, or serve tweaked branded food and make money to help fund school meal programs for low income children. It stinks that those are their choices, but it's not that they don't care about health.
Fair point. I felt that they don't because they justified their school menu based on dollars and cents...not a peep about kids health. So to me the omission equaled apathy. But yeah, fair point that that is purely an opinion on my part.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.
It was a thing when I was in high school in 2000 as well. Dominos pizza was available on a daily basis, as an optional upcharge item on school lunches. That was almost 20 years ago, and I lived in a podunk town, so I doubt it's but so uncommon.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »No. It is not the job of government to use taxation to manipulate behavior.
Where does it end? Taxing people for not having a gym membership? A tax for not using the gym enough?
The government is wrong nearly all the time when it decides what we should be eating.
The creation of the food pyramid led to an increase in obesity.
Overeating and not enough movement by much of the population led to an increase in obesity, not some drawing in a pamphlet.
In the US, the tax system manipulates all sorts of behaviors. Mortgage interest deduction, child care credits, credits for dependent children, credits for energy system investments by homeowners, deductions for educational expenses, charitable contributions, retirement funding, etc, etc. If anyone gets any of these, I'm guessing they are in favor of using taxation to manipulate that particular behavior.
just because they are already doing a whole host of things that make no sense and manipulative does not make it right, and does not mean that they even have the authority to do it in the first place.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
No more fast foods in schools..many US schools will have school lunches that are a rotating menu of Taco Bell, dominios, McDonalds, Arby's, etc. Every school should at least have a salad bar every day so kids can actually make a healthy food choice.
I was a public school teacher and this is news to me. Every school where I taught had a salad bar, a regular meal line (which generally involved a veggie, a starch, and some kind of protein), and in some cases an "a la carte" line where kids could get pizza or chicken nuggets (no a la carte options in the poorest district, only the middle class kids got this option). Just curious what your public school experience was like?
I lived in US for three years 2011-2014 and my kids went to a US public school for one year (private the other two years). In the public school it was all fast food. There was no salad bar. There was no regular line. It was all fast food choices. My kids had a packed lunch every day because the food was so bad. According to this article...it's not that uncommon nowadays.
https://www.education.com/magazine/article/fast-food-school-cafeterias/
Weird. Maybe it's the area? I'm not doubting your contention, it's just so vastly different from my own experience it took me aback. I'm from the midwest and I've never seen a school that didn't have a salad bar.
It probably is the area. I just think it's a bad thing and should be banned otherwise it'll spread to more and more schools. The schools are only doing it for money reasons..they don't care about obesity or the health of the kids. It just doesn't seem right to purposely create an unhealthy environment and then expect kids to weather it with no impact. To me it's no different than putting teenagers in a room with a keg of beer and then being all surprised when some of them drink til they puke. School environments should reinforce healthy behaviours, not try and sabotage them.
It was a thing when I was in high school in 2000 as well. Dominos pizza was available on a daily basis, as an optional upcharge item on school lunches. That was almost 20 years ago, and I lived in a podunk town, so I doubt it's but so uncommon.
I feel cheated now!
That definitely wasn't the norm in the area where I attended school or taught. 0 -
I'm not so sure the schools are making what they advertise....this may be an isolated case but a student did an undercover documentary about his pathetic school lunches where he compares the meal advertised on the menu with video footage of what he was served. It's a real eye opener.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/06/27/school-lunch-program.aspx.
It's worth watching as it mirrors the complaints my kids had about the food at school...how it didn't even resemble what was on the menu.
Just wanted to add, this documentary is about the "healthy lunches" that were in this kids NYC school. Looking at them, I found it really hard to see them as healthy.0 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.2
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I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
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I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
So...why exactly does society bear this cost to begin with? This is anti-libertarian.4 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/0 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
That article doesn't contain the conclusion that sugar is as "addictive as cocaine." Did you mean to post another link?
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I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
Please find me a study on humans that has conclusive evidence that sugar is addictive.
and you get the same reaction in your brain to petting puppies as you do to sugar, so does that mean that petting puppies is addictive as cocaine.2 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
FFS, I really wish this misinterpretation would die. All that happened was that the same pleasure centers lit up between the two.
The difference is that after cocaine use, the centers dim out heavily, and repeated increased dosages are required to have the same effect, and eventually even gain normalcy. This is addiction/dependency.
This doesn't happen with sugar. Everything returns to baseline, and that's it. This is not addiction/dependency.
When was the last time you saw someone shoveling in spoonfuls of sugar? My guess is never. Handfuls of M&Ms though? Probably often.6 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
Please find me a study on humans that has conclusive evidence that sugar is addictive.
and you get the same reaction in your brain to petting puppies as you do to sugar, so does that mean that petting puppies is addictive as cocaine.
Here you go. You may get the same type of reaction in brain by petting puppies..but the magnitude is far far lower. Just like the effects of paracetamol vs. Morphine. Yes both are analgesics, but paracetamol is not addictive like an opiate is.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144.0 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
Please find me a study on humans that has conclusive evidence that sugar is addictive.
and you get the same reaction in your brain to petting puppies as you do to sugar, so does that mean that petting puppies is addictive as cocaine.
Here you go. You may get the same type of reaction in brain by petting puppies..but the magnitude is far far lower. Just like the effects of paracetamol vs. Morphine. Yes both are analgesics, but paracetamol is not addictive like an opiate is.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144.
Clearly, puppies need to be banned.3 -
I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
No - this is misrepresentation of facts and misinformation. This simply stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain. You get the same response from any pleasurable stimulus such as a warm hug or petting puppies.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I am normally a libertarian, but sugar is not any sort of essential nutrient and it is definitely addictive and abused which causes societal costs that we all bear. Alcohol and cigarettes are similar in that vane. I wouldn't be opposed to taxing sugar or HFCS.
sugar has never been found to be an addictive substance, never.
That's not true. Sugar has been found to be highly addictive in multiple studies. In brain scans it was shown to be as addictive as cocaine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/sugar-addiction-like-drug-abuse-study-reveals/
FFS, I really wish this misinterpretation would die. All that happened was that the same pleasure centers lit up between the two.
The difference is that after cocaine use, the centers dim out heavily, and repeated increased dosages are required to have the same effect, and eventually even gain normalcy. This is addiction/dependency.
This doesn't happen with sugar. Everything returns to baseline, and that's it. This is not addiction/dependency.
When was the last time you saw someone shoveling in spoonfuls of sugar? My guess is never. Handfuls of M&Ms though? Probably often.
I'm afraid that multiple scientists disagree with you, the brain does not return to baseline, it reduces dopamine receptors which mean more sugar is needed to get same "high" this kicks off cravings, etc etc just like with drugs. Please see abstract to study I posted.0
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