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Is it cheating?
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Hi - five months post-op on gastric sleeve here chiming in. Did I cheat? Yes, I cheated death. The end.
To address the specific questions -
Overall, the level/quality of nutritional courses that each of us go through before surgery varies widely. Some people wind up going through more coursework than the average MD (which is sad, but true). Some get none at all (like me). Whether or not we are 'qualified' to be giving nutritional advice has little to do with whether we've had surgery, there's as much bad information given to us as there is to anyone else on the internet.
I'd trust the advice if it could be supported with sound medical research and science, and distrust it if it was illogical, promised 'quick results' or 'low effort', or seemed to rely on quack science or dubious supplements. But I'd evaluate the advice on those criteria, not on whether the person had bariatric surgery any more than I would if they'd had any other type of surgery.
And, a person who has bariatric surgery to help with weight loss is no more 'cheating' than a person who seeks medical help for any other physical or psychiatric issue. I don't tell people with depression to just cheer up and skip their SSRI drugs either.9 -
Gastric surgery is totally cheating! Just like me taking my epilepsy medication is cheating! Life is a game and the rules say we are not allowed any medical interventions, otherwise we forfeit errr .... what do we win again?
In all seriousness, some people see it as a short cut but it's really not. Fortunately I've not been that big, but having my stomach chopped up and my enjoyment of food ruined for life? No thanks.3 -
I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
Surgery has does not mess with hormones as much as regular weight loss does, so in general the maintenance prognosis is better in addition to weight loss being faster. Some also have diabetes, which is resolved in several cases shortly after the surgery for some reason even before significant weight loss. There are several reasons to choose surgery, so in some cases the risks and side effects are an acceptable tradeoff for the sometimes immediate life saving benefits.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
As is often said, reducing calories is simple but not easy. Obviously CICO applies to people who undergo WLS, but their reasons for not being able to adhere to a calorie-restricted diet without aid are personal and will vary. Others probably could succeed at weight loss without surgery, but it's more important to lose weight as fast as possible.
I know three people who have had WLS, and they were all extremely obese. Like, easily 200 lbs to lose. It was important to lose weight quickly - the likelihood of severe medical complications or death was there. Regular dieting takes patience and practice, and these people weren't in places where they had the luxury to get good at weight loss. Then there's the psychological element - when you have that much to lose, it can seem impossible. It can seem like you have no hope, especially if you ever have a bad week or two with no movement on the scale. WLS helps some people overcome that psychological hurdle and realize that yes, they CAN do this, and it helps empower them to take control.
Of these three people, 2 have lost the weight and been successful at maintenance. One lost about 100 lbs and stalled out with a lot of weight left to lose. He's maintained at that point, but he hasn't really been "successful" as he's not maintaining a healthy weight. WLS can only get you so far, and you either will or won't do the rest yourself.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
Speaking purely for myself as someone who has had the surgery, I'm not offended by questions like this as long as the person genuinely seems to want to understand. I've had people come off as 'Why were you too lazy to diet for real?' - and that's just obnoxious.
CICO does absolutely apply to me, and I track my food and macro nutrition every bit as carefully as I do now six months out on surgery as I did before. I likely will for the rest of my life, but at least now I'm living again.
As to why it's harder? I wish I had a good answer. At my highest I was about 125lbs over my healthy weight. The walk from the train station to my office (<1mile) was enough to leave me exhausted and in pain. I LOVED to be active, but had finally gotten to the point where everything hurt and was frankly more of a danger to me than help.
For calories, I tried a number of different plans - from keto, to low-fat, to VLCD/PSMF. I lost my 20s to dieting. I'd lose weight for the first two months, and then just...nothing. No change in size, no scale movement. Just constant exhaustion and neurosis over food. I'd had my thyroid tested, tested for PCOS - every Dr I saw swore nothing was wrong with me even though I could produce meticulously honest food diaries showing a 1,200-1,500 calorie a day diet for months on end. At one point, I had a Dr tell me my 1,500 calorie/day diet was too much, even after I told him I was training for a triathlon.
Finally it was surgery, or resign myself to dying by inches - and I wanted to live. I wish 'just eat less and move more' had worked - but it didn't. I don't know if I had a medical condition that wasn't diagnosed properly, if the surgery reset my gut biome enough to help or something else, but it worked. Even now, I lose slower than I should based on my caloric intake and activity levels, but I am successfully losing.7 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
I know several people who have had wls in one form or the other. Interestingly-the men I know have kept off the weight, even several years into it, while all the women I know who have had surgery have gained the weight back, and more. I wonder what the statistics for success between men and women are? A bunny trail but kind of interesting to think about
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I had weight loss surgery 9 years ago I was 284 lbs, since then I have had 2 kids and have maintained a !50+ weight loss. It was NOT cheating. For me I had so many co-morbidities that I needed to do something that was drastic. From there I have pursued a certification as a PERSONAL TRAINER. How dare anyone put anyone down for making necessary lifestyle changes to become a better, healthier version of themself. For me, WLS saved my life and has allowed me to live a fuller and happier life because I AM HEALTHY. I WAS WORHT IT, I AM STILL WORTH IT!!!!!!3
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ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Anvil_Head wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
I honestly feel that sometimes people just add that "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/etc..... told me such and such" in an effort to validate what advice they are offering. If medical professionals truly offer some of the really bad advice I see floating around I think the whole medical profession has to be in serious trouble.
Do you realize how little training doctors actually get in nutrition?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
Absolutely I do. Which why I say if they are the source of some of this bad advice the medical profession is in trouble. However they are surely knowledgeable enough to know better than to recommend fad diets and the like. One would hope at least.
Studying for my personal training exam. That was in the 1st chapter. Doctors get limited to NO fitness training!0 -
DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.1
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DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?1 -
The diet associated with gastric bypass is harder than any I've used to lose weight. Surgery is hard and recovery is hard. I personally do not think gastric bypass is easier than regular dieting and therefore is not cheating.
A lot of people regain weight after losing it, so I think that can be taken out of the equation.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?
She probably meant the conventional way people understand "diet", that is a set of rigid rules or meal plan meant to be temporarily used to drop weight with no regard to long term maintenance.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?
She probably meant the conventional way people understand "diet", that is a set of rigid rules or meal plan meant to be temporarily used to drop weight with no regard to long term maintenance.
That could be -- I just wanted to point out that a "lifestyle change" isn't always necessary. I didn't really change anything except limiting calories (which is one of the meanings of "diet," at least as I understand it).1
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