Not losing weight 6 miles of walking atleast 3 times a week
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Thanks singingflutelady. I am new at this blog thing and I don't see a reply button.4
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Are you drinking enough water, protten intake and low carb, low sugar? These are key, but #1 is water water water!!!0
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Are you drinking enough water, protten intake and low carb, low sugar? These are key, but #1 is water water water!!!
I'd say getting enough protein is key- I struggled for a long time because I ate mostly carbs and way too little protein. I still lost weight from being in a calorie deficit but it was more muscle than fat and I had low energy & lots of hunger issues. Now that I adjusted my diet and eat 100 grams of protein every day I feel great - strong and energetic- and am losing body fat and not muscle.
Water is of corse very important but most people know that. But it seems most people especially women don't seem to realize the importance of protein, especially for weight loss.3 -
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Not being a food nor diet fanatic I don't understand the acronyms. Would I be correct in assuming that CICO stands for Calories In Calories Out?
As for Trixiegirl66's comments, I am thinking that it might be time for her to have a Snickers bar and relax a little. Gottaburnem said that she takes a snickers bar when she wants. Nothing to do with healthy eating, it just works for her.
By the way, what is SAD an acronym for?
"Standard American Diet". It's usually used in a pejorative sense by "clean eating" advocates in that they consider the SAD as sitting around in front of the television shoveling fast food, junk food and bags of sugar into one's mouth all day long.3 -
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I started MFP about two weeks ago and the first thing I noticed is that it is very similar to playing golf. By that I mean you have the pencil and you can put any score that you want on the card. With MFP, I find the same thing applies. If you don't write down everything because you don't like the way it looks, then you are only cheating yourself.
The second thing I have noticed is that people seem to go overboard on their food consumption. To cut out everything you like and try to supplement it with lentils and quinoa and rabbit food just, in my mind, doesn't work. You are gearing yourself for failure because eventually you will want ice cream, chocolate, beer and pizza.
I really like MFP because it lets me figure out my day's activities. As an example, yesterday, I went to meet friends at the Air Force Wing for a couple of beers. The beer at the wing is served in 20 oz mugs. I had two. Therefore, I put that in my daily allowance as 4 10 oz Coors Light beers and adjusted meals and my exercise regime to accommodate the change. I do the same for ice cream, pizza, chocolate and any other decadent food that I like.
In my humble opinion, there are no sacrifices to be made, only adjustments. I am losing one pound a week and have found that by consuming 10 glasses of water per day, walking for one hour at 3.5 mph and 30 minutes of circuit training, combined with breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner and snack, I am eating less but I am never hungry. I am also eating more fruit. I will be 69 in January, 6'1", 215 lbs when I started and my goal is to be 190 pounds. I am ex special forces, have had a hip replacement, multiple surgeries, and I receive 5 medical pensions. Sometimes, we just have to soldier on. By the way, losing 25 pounds is very daunting and I don't think I can do that, but I can lose 5 pounds 5 times. Its all about attitude and perspective.
Good luck with your weight loss.
P.S.
I don't know what age you are, but one thing I have learned. As we age, we can't do exercises designed for 20 year olds. Our bodies don't metabolize at the rate they did when we were young. Work to your own limits. Pulse rates for weight loss are maintained at a lower than fitness rate.
Congrats on figuring it out early in the game. You're going to make it all the way.7 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Healthy living is based in fact not fantasy - sorry, but Big Macs and coke have NO place in an eating plan period. I double majored in journalism and nutrition at university, so with all due respect, you are very incorrect in your thinking regarding SAD being a cliche, or that I am somehow battling an "imaginary opponent."
And do be careful throwing around terms like orthorexic, for while I do not suffer from either anxiety or OCD eating related issues, many on this board do and your throwing the term around is both disrespectful and rude.
When you can prove that a 100 calorie serving of Snickers and a 100 calorie serving of avocado provide the same nutrients and fuel for the human body I will gladly listen to your argument on CICO. No false statements here - just truth that doesn't go down well with most not wanting to acknowledge the role food plays in health.
CICO is not nutrition. Nutrition is nutrition. CICO is energy balance. ALL food provides energy.
You obviously have no idea what CICO is, even though the information has been broken down in simple terms for you. It's like talking to a wall...12 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »I find it insane how many react with such defensiveness and outright anger, when I suggest that shelving the obsessive CICO mindset was the very reason behind my fat loss. And while chocolate and cheese puffs might fit into your caloric plan and not cause weight gain, make no mistake that your liver, kidneys and brain all take a hit by means of inflammation.
Sure, I could fit a litre of coke, cheetos and two Big Macs into a daily caloric plan, but God help my organs, mental capacity and overall looks from such an abusive and ignorant mindset. I have lived abroad and in the United States, and I can tell you, we in the U.S are literally dying from the inside out due to the nonsense of CICO.
And although I gained fifty pounds in my forties, I have no stretch marks, age spots or wrinkles at 50 - all of these positives I attribute directly to eating good fats, clean protein and tons of organic veggies and fruits - whether they fit into my caloric plan or not. And you are right, I am a ranter - but I am sick of seeing friends and family falling into ill health, because they buy into watching calories instead of reading labels.
if you dont have stretch marks that just means your body has good and a plentiful amount of elasticity ,nothing else. I have stretch marks due to gaining 30 lbs when I was a KID,due to medications I was taking(causing my appetite to go wild),I was active back then and everything and ate healthy.my mom had 5 of us and she has NO stretchmarks while all 5 of us did whether it was from carrying children or gaining weight.age spots can also be hereditary wrinkles again can be caused by different factors. I had NO wrinkles in my face until I lost as much weight as I did,now I have wrinkles. again Im sure thats due to not having a lot of elasticity4 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »I find it insane how many react with such defensiveness and outright anger, when I suggest that shelving the obsessive CICO mindset was the very reason behind my fat loss. And while chocolate and cheese puffs might fit into your caloric plan and not cause weight gain, make no mistake that your liver, kidneys and brain all take a hit by means of inflammation.
Sure, I could fit a litre of coke, cheetos and two Big Macs into a daily caloric plan, but God help my organs, mental capacity and overall looks from such an abusive and ignorant mindset. I have lived abroad and in the United States, and I can tell you, we in the U.S are literally dying from the inside out due to the nonsense of CICO.
And although I gained fifty pounds in my forties, I have no stretch marks, age spots or wrinkles at 50 - all of these positives I attribute directly to eating good fats, clean protein and tons of organic veggies and fruits - whether they fit into my caloric plan or not. And you are right, I am a ranter - but I am sick of seeing friends and family falling into ill health, because they buy into watching calories instead of reading labels.
I feel like whichever college/university you went to failed you on both of the topics you majored in.
A someone else said, taking CICO and extrapolating it to "just eat Big Macs and Snickers in your calorie goal and you'll be sweet" is being wilfully ignorant of what is actually being said. You know what's important to physical health? Mental health. You know what can be important to mental health? Indulging in the things you like now and gain. Including "eeevil sugar and carbs". That said, I don't really see what's wrong with soda, burgers and chocolate. They all have nutritional profiles that provide essential micro and macronutrients the body requires. To insist otherwise shows nutritional ignorance. Again, questioning the teaching you received during your degree.
But d'oh, I guess the handful of McChicken sandwiches I've had in my lifetime are making my chronic, hereditary, trauma triggered mental illnesses are really the culprits. If only I ate avocado and quinoa (organic!) every day I'd be cured.
And yes, that paragraph is sarcastic because it shows the strawman being used.12 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Trixiegirl66 wrote: »I find it insane how many react with such defensiveness and outright anger, when I suggest that shelving the obsessive CICO mindset was the very reason behind my fat loss. And while chocolate and cheese puffs might fit into your caloric plan and not cause weight gain, make no mistake that your liver, kidneys and brain all take a hit by means of inflammation.
Sure, I could fit a litre of coke, cheetos and two Big Macs into a daily caloric plan, but God help my organs, mental capacity and overall looks from such an abusive and ignorant mindset. I have lived abroad and in the United States, and I can tell you, we in the U.S are literally dying from the inside out due to the nonsense of CICO.
And although I gained fifty pounds in my forties, I have no stretch marks, age spots or wrinkles at 50 - all of these positives I attribute directly to eating good fats, clean protein and tons of organic veggies and fruits - whether they fit into my caloric plan or not. And you are right, I am a ranter - but I am sick of seeing friends and family falling into ill health, because they buy into watching calories instead of reading labels.
if you dont have stretch marks that just means your body has good and a plentiful amount of elasticity ,nothing else. I have stretch marks due to gaining 30 lbs when I was a KID,due to medications I was taking(causing my appetite to go wild),I was active back then and everything and ate healthy.my mom had 5 of us and she has NO stretchmarks while all 5 of us did whether it was from carrying children or gaining weight.age spots can also be hereditary wrinkles again can be caused by different factors. I had NO wrinkles in my face until I lost as much weight as I did,now I have wrinkles. again Im sure thats due to not having a lot of elasticity
I have stretch marks from when I grew breasts suddenly overnight during puberty.
I got no stretch marks from my first pregnancy, but did get them from my second because I carried differently and he was a bigger baby.
Genetics man, it's a lottery.
Oh, and I have no appreciable wrinkles at 54. And I eat Snickers bars and cookies.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Trixiegirl66 wrote: »I find it insane how many react with such defensiveness and outright anger, when I suggest that shelving the obsessive CICO mindset was the very reason behind my fat loss. And while chocolate and cheese puffs might fit into your caloric plan and not cause weight gain, make no mistake that your liver, kidneys and brain all take a hit by means of inflammation.
Sure, I could fit a litre of coke, cheetos and two Big Macs into a daily caloric plan, but God help my organs, mental capacity and overall looks from such an abusive and ignorant mindset. I have lived abroad and in the United States, and I can tell you, we in the U.S are literally dying from the inside out due to the nonsense of CICO.
And although I gained fifty pounds in my forties, I have no stretch marks, age spots or wrinkles at 50 - all of these positives I attribute directly to eating good fats, clean protein and tons of organic veggies and fruits - whether they fit into my caloric plan or not. And you are right, I am a ranter - but I am sick of seeing friends and family falling into ill health, because they buy into watching calories instead of reading labels.
if you dont have stretch marks that just means your body has good and a plentiful amount of elasticity ,nothing else. I have stretch marks due to gaining 30 lbs when I was a KID,due to medications I was taking(causing my appetite to go wild),I was active back then and everything and ate healthy.my mom had 5 of us and she has NO stretchmarks while all 5 of us did whether it was from carrying children or gaining weight.age spots can also be hereditary wrinkles again can be caused by different factors. I had NO wrinkles in my face until I lost as much weight as I did,now I have wrinkles. again Im sure thats due to not having a lot of elasticity
I have stretch marks from when I grew breasts suddenly overnight during puberty.
I got no stretch marks from my first pregnancy, but did get them from my second because I carried differently and he was a bigger baby.
Genetics man, it's a lottery.
Oh, and I have no appreciable wrinkles at 54. And I eat Snickers bars and cookies.
while stretchmarks they say are genetic if you dont have enough elasticity in your body you will get them. none of my grandmas had them,my mom doesnt have them. and me and my sisters all have them. for me prednisone at a young age caused me to gain too rapidly and thats how I got mine. they say if your mom doesnt have them you wont have them. thats a crock lol
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Trixiegirl66 wrote: »I find it insane how many react with such defensiveness and outright anger, when I suggest that shelving the obsessive CICO mindset was the very reason behind my fat loss. And while chocolate and cheese puffs might fit into your caloric plan and not cause weight gain, make no mistake that your liver, kidneys and brain all take a hit by means of inflammation.
Sure, I could fit a litre of coke, cheetos and two Big Macs into a daily caloric plan, but God help my organs, mental capacity and overall looks from such an abusive and ignorant mindset. I have lived abroad and in the United States, and I can tell you, we in the U.S are literally dying from the inside out due to the nonsense of CICO.
And although I gained fifty pounds in my forties, I have no stretch marks, age spots or wrinkles at 50 - all of these positives I attribute directly to eating good fats, clean protein and tons of organic veggies and fruits - whether they fit into my caloric plan or not. And you are right, I am a ranter - but I am sick of seeing friends and family falling into ill health, because they buy into watching calories instead of reading labels.
if you dont have stretch marks that just means your body has good and a plentiful amount of elasticity ,nothing else. I have stretch marks due to gaining 30 lbs when I was a KID,due to medications I was taking(causing my appetite to go wild),I was active back then and everything and ate healthy.my mom had 5 of us and she has NO stretchmarks while all 5 of us did whether it was from carrying children or gaining weight.age spots can also be hereditary wrinkles again can be caused by different factors. I had NO wrinkles in my face until I lost as much weight as I did,now I have wrinkles. again Im sure thats due to not having a lot of elasticity
I have stretch marks from when I grew breasts suddenly overnight during puberty.
I got no stretch marks from my first pregnancy, but did get them from my second because I carried differently and he was a bigger baby.
Genetics man, it's a lottery.
Oh, and I have no appreciable wrinkles at 54. And I eat Snickers bars and cookies.
while stretchmarks they say are genetic if you dont have enough elasticity in your body you will get them. none of my grandmas had them,my mom doesnt have them. and me and my sisters all have them. for me prednisone at a young age caused me to gain too rapidly and thats how I got mine. they say if your mom doesnt have them you wont have them. thats a crock lol
Yeah my mum doesn't really have any even though she's very overweight (possibly, she might not be any more, don't know, we don't speak.........). I, on the other hand, have them everywhere and most of them I got in my early teens. I stopped being a competitive gymnast training 5 days a week, hit puberty, growth no longer stunted with all energy going to training and I shot up and out pretty quickly! I didn't get any new stretch marks until I was at my very highest weight and that was a few on my tummy.
So there's a few factors to stretch marks. "Clean" eating ain't one of them.4 -
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Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
But all that is not necessary. However you get into a deficit is what counts. I eat Big Macs once in awhile, I'm as healthy as ever. Some go way overboard with eating only foods they think are healthy which is flirting with orthorexia. That is no way to live. You only get one shot at life, live it to the fullest.
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Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
So seriously what's wrong with a big Mac that makes it exceedingly unhealthy?8 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
So seriously what's wrong with a big Mac that makes it exceedingly unhealthy?
It hits all the macros! I love them!5 -
. Wow super unhealthy. How can anyone fit 560 calories into your day.
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Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
so what you are saying then is because some dont eat like you do and that most dont agree with what you say because CICO worked for them and helped then improve health issues that they bullies/mean girls? blood sugar swings from eating unhealthy treats? nope cant say that I have had any blood sugar swings. also I have been able to get off many of my meds just by losing weight,I didnt see where anyone had any nasty comments just because they like to eat big macs doesnt mean they arent healthy. you choose your way of eating and everyone will choose theirs,but you cannot say they are wrong and that just because you eat your way and have no stretch marks,wrinkles,etc. most of those things are genetic and caused by good elasticity you either have them/ will get them or you wont.I dont see any vicious or jealous women here. I think you are seeing what you want to see,Im not attacking you either. but if you see it that way then so be it.10 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »...I dont see any vicious or jealous women here. I think you are seeing what you want to see,Im not attacking you either. but if you see it that way then so be it.
Correcting bad information =/= "attacking". It's doing a service to others who read the thread so they're not misguided by false premises.11 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
I am really curious how you eat Nutter Butters, Chips Ahoy, Krispie Kream donuts, Fritos, Starbucks blueberry muffins, Kit kats, mini marshmallows, etc, etc and then have the audacity to criticize anyone else's choices. Your diet is not much different than most of us that are eating better (and less of it) to lose weight. Whether it's an occasional Big Mac & soda or your daily consumption of "treats" ultimately there is no difference as to how one progresses on their journey. From reading all these posts, you have dished out the rudeness as equally as you've received it. Congratulations on your progress however you choose to get there. BTW, I am 62 and am healthier and weigh less than I have in over 30 years, all by following the excellent advice of those on here that have a true understanding of nutrition and CICO, the reality, not the myth.15 -
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Maybe you should be finding better sources as sugar doesn't cause diabetes. And did you check out the nutritional info I posted for big Macs? Tell me exactly why it is bad compared to your treats.3
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singingflutelady wrote: ». Wow super unhealthy. How can anyone fit 560 calories into your day.
Just in case you didn't see it the first time. What is so absolutely horrible about this that eating it once in a while would put your health at huge risk.0 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Never once did I say I didn't indulge in treats - but you will notice that at least 90% of my diet is whole foods and healthy. Do none of you watch the news? It has been clearly reported that soda and fast food is in a category all alone, with a 16 ounce soda a day almost guaranteeing diabetes...
Sugar doesn't cause diabetes. I'd think anybody who co-majored nutrition in college would know that.Trixiegirl66 wrote: »And I have looked at many of the diets of the women hurling jabs my way, and trust me, my diet on a bad day looks nothing like the everyday crap ingested by many of you. And I started out helping the OP to understand how food choices impact hormonal imbalance - something I healed through a change in diet - so yeah, rude doesn't begin to describe some of the nasty individuals on this board.
And as far as getting there not being as important as reaching goal, I see people that reach weight loss goals all the time who are going in the opposite direction of good health. Bill Clinton reached his weight loss goal, and he is very far from healthy - all those Big Macs and Big Gulps certainly served him well!
And now for anybody who's interested in science rather than woo and fearmongering, here's a review of an actual study regarding the body's hormonal responses to a fast food meal vs. a comparable "healthy" meal: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-fast-food-meal.html/9 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Here is the funny thing about the bully herd mentality and string of nasty comments - I couldn't care less about your ill informed opinions or character attacks. After reading the many rants, I wondered if blood sugar swings from all the "occasional" unhealthy treats you guys pass off as moderation were behind the rudeness.
I showed my daughter the string of comments and she laughed, saying "it is clear that mean girls grow into vicious women with jealous streaks." After all, my open food diary shows I indulge in treats regularly, and yet I am losing fat and increasing muscle mass because I know that a Big Mac and soda are not treats.
Please though, carry on with your If It Fits Your Macros logic, and watch where your body lands as it ages. After all, we are what we eat, and for this knowledge I am very grateful.
You claimed that mental capacity is affected by eating differently than the way you choose to think is best. You don't get to pull the victim card and act like you're being attacked when people call you out on your false logic.
Believe me, no jealousy here. I'm also losing fat and increasing muscle mass while being able to comprehend the simple fact that there's nothing wrong with a Big Mac.11 -
Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Never once did I say I didn't indulge in treats - but you will notice that at least 90% of my diet is whole foods and healthy. Do none of you watch the news? It has been clearly reported that soda and fast food is in a category all alone, with a 16 ounce soda a day almost guaranteeing diabetes.
And I have looked at many of the diets of the women hurling jabs my way, and trust me, my diet on a bad day looks nothing like the everyday crap ingested by many of you. And I started out helping the OP to understand how food choices impact hormonal imbalance - something I healed through a change in diet - so yeah, rude doesn't begin to describe some of the nasty individuals on this board.
And as far as getting there not being as important as reaching goal, I see people that reach weight loss goals all the time who are going in the opposite direction of good health. Bill Clinton reached his weight loss goal, and he is very far from healthy - all those Big Macs and Big Gulps certainly served him well!
all I can say is there was a point off and on in my lifetime where I would consume a lot of softdrinks and I mean a 12 pack a day and I am not diabetic,sugar does not lead to diabetes,type 2 can be caused by being overweight but it can also be caused by meds,certain medical conditions(such as metabolic disorders,genetic defects,etc).what hormonal imbalances did you cure through diet? Im generally curious about this.
just want to say that my one sister eats nothing but crap(shes not trying to lose weight) but shes not obese and she is pretty healthy otherwise and she eats fast food I would say more than twice a week.the rest of the time she buys convenience or processed foods to make at home.(Im talking hot dogs,french fries,cheese sticks,mac and cheese,etc. very rarely does she eat healthy and only issue she has is high cholesterol and its not even high enough to warrant a diet change yet.shes ate like this since she left home over 20 years ago.I ended up with medical issues when I was a small child and I was never overweight until the last 15 years.I have a metabolic disorder and its caused by a genetic defect and I have to watch what I eat, because it can lead to me developing diabetes,insulin resistance,heart attack,stroke,etc even at a healthy weight.I have severe high cholesterol because of it. The way I eat didnt cause it a gene defect causes it.1 -
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Trixiegirl66 wrote: »Please all of you, go on a Big Mac bender. Talking to you people makes about as much sense as trying to talk to teens about the dangers of binge drinking or smoking. Again, we are what we eat - so yeah, good luck with that and have fun with the expedited aging process brought on by the inflammatory response of each and every burger that slides down the pie hole!
So is it just Big Macs in particular that you take issue with? I don't actually eat them, I don't think I ever have. That isn't because I find them "bad" I just prefer something different on the McDs menu. But I think someone posted above that they are under 600 cals, so if I make a burger at home (which I often do) with lean ground beef, bun, pepper jack cheese, and avocado... and it comes in about 600 cals... how exactly am I expediting the aging process? Is it the ground beef? The bun?6
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