Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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Thanks guys both those posts are really helpful. I'll certainly check out some of the reading material. I'll also post some photos tomorrow when I'm on the computer. There's plenty for me to think about but the 3 day full body program idea sounds like it'd fit in really well with my other commitments.
Thanks for the advice and I now know not to eat below BMR
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hbunting86 wrote: »Thanks - my body fat % was measured in the gym on a machine so I'm not sure if that's accurate or not. It sounds off to me, but there again does it take into account boobs etc? I'm quite busty haha.
Calorie wise again I'm unsure. I suppose I'd rather gain muscle and so weights do sound a good option for me. I do like cardio so will still continue to do some. I also do yoga and pilates, but that's more for stability and with yoga, meditation and relaxation. It's not training per se.
At 0.25kg loss I'm alotted 1290cal as per MFP. Working out my BMR this is 1367.25. I don't know if that affects anything.
I guess I'll try incorporating some heavy lifting and go from there...
That is 1290 cal for NON-exercise days - if you are really the activity level you picked.
Most seem to pick sedentary - most are not actually, even with desk job.
Add some calories from your exercise - you'll rarely if ever have a goal of 1290.1 -
Thanks - I will do. It's a great bonus knowing I can and should eat those back, whilst upping my overall calories. I think that's the mistake I've made in the past, not lifting heavy and eating too much of a deficit so that the only thing that ever happened was that I was 'skinny fat' which is absolutely what I DON'T want. I really want to get lean and toned, bring my overall body fat % down and build muscle. Seem to have got more sense from this thread than most of MFP threads put together haha
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hbunting86 wrote: »Thanks - I will do. It's a great bonus knowing I can and should eat those back, whilst upping my overall calories. I think that's the mistake I've made in the past, not lifting heavy and eating too much of a deficit so that the only thing that ever happened was that I was 'skinny fat' which is absolutely what I DON'T want. I really want to get lean and toned, bring my overall body fat % down and build muscle. Seem to have got more sense from this thread than most of MFP threads put together haha
If you consistently exercise, I would move to the TDEE method, where you do the calorie calculation to include exercise. From there, you would eat the same amount of calories every day. After 4 weeks, you would make an adjustment based on actual results. For example, if you ate 1600 calories on every for 4 weeks and you lost 1/2 lb per week on average, you would increase your calories to 1850 (1/2 lb week weight loss roughly equals a 250 calorie deficit) to get at maintenance and work the recomp. Or you could set it at 1700 and allow some room for error.3 -
Ah I see - I'll have a go at this. When you say work the recomp, what exactly does that entail? Sorry for the questions just want to make sure I get things accurate.0
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hbunting86 wrote: »Ah I see - I'll have a go at this. When you say work the recomp, what exactly does that entail? Sorry for the questions just want to make sure I get things accurate.
Eating around maintenance, training hard and getting adequate nutrition. Over time, you should seem some changes in your body... fat loss and increased muscle mass.
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hbunting86 wrote: »Ah I see - I'll have a go at this. When you say work the recomp, what exactly does that entail? Sorry for the questions just want to make sure I get things accurate.
If you have to time, read through this whole thread and it will give you a good idea. Unlike losing fat with a deficit, then seeking to put on muscle with a bulk eating over maintenance for a time while lifting heavy, then losing fat again with a deficit hopefully coming out of the cycle with more muscle, a recomp instead has a person eating at maintenance or a very small amount below and lifting heavy to slowly burn off fat and slowly put on muscle, basically to recompose their body to being leaner and looking better. The goal is not to lose weight, but to basically remain the same weight and change body composition.3 -
hbunting86 wrote: »Ah I see - I'll have a go at this. When you say work the recomp, what exactly does that entail? Sorry for the questions just want to make sure I get things accurate.
Eating around maintenance, training hard and getting adequate nutrition. Over time, you should seem some changes in your body... fat loss and increased muscle mass.
Thanks - that's great info
I'm really enjoying training hard, so it stands to reason that I am naturally hungrier. I cook from scratch all the time (always have) but have really upped how much attention I pay to protein. Contemplating getting a supplement but unsure whether whey or casein is the best option and which brands are both palatable and reputable... there seems to be a LOT out there! 2 -
The machines are notoriously inaccurate. Yes it would include boobs!1
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Someone please help! I've lost 4 pounds since my last weigh-in but I've gained two inches around my waist!
i was a 26 inch waist now im a 28 inch waist 
i want to get to a 21 inch waist, someone please help me!! 0 -
Examine what you have eaten that may be different, and stresses in life (the water retained from elevated cortisol from stress usually starts at belly).
Obviously you didn't gain fat that fast in that spot. Unless you mean your last weigh-in was 2 months ago.
Also - you may have intended a different topic - since this is about recomp - which means no weight loss.
It doesn't sound like you are attempting recomp since you didn't comment negatively about losing weight.1 -
kaialexander17 wrote: »Someone please help! I've lost 4 pounds since my last weigh-in but I've gained two inches around my waist! i was a 26 inch waist now im a 28 inch waist i want to get to a 21 inch waist, someone please help me!!
Be sure you're measuring in the exact same place - the smallest part of your waist. Sometimes I can't get the same measurement twice in a row. It can be tricky.1 -
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I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.0 -
youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
If your goal is to lose 20 more lbs, its not a recomp. Also, to hit 105, you would have to lose no lbm and hit 18% bf. Assuming you are 30% bf. I really wouldnt get hung up in a number. If anything concentrate on how you look.
I would cut slowly; 10-15% below maintenance, get about 100g of protein, and follow a solid progressive overload resistance program. If you want, time some cho/pro around your workouts and spread pro through out your day. Calories and macros are the most important but timing does have some potential of helping.2 -
youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building.2 -
trigden1991 wrote: »youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building.
Thanks -- I just realized that I just can't tell how lean I am. Lately a lot of people are telling me I'm really, really thin ... but I guess this is one of those things where my brain isn't quite caught up to reality yet. I've been the opposite of "thin" for a very long time. Unless, of course, they're just being nice and I really should weigh 105 lbs and should lose around 15. Oh, brother ... ?!
Pardon my weirdness 0 -
I'm *recomping* but truly, I want to cut but can't get in the mindset. I'm lifting heavy and eating at maintenxe but have been for a while.0
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trigden1991 wrote: »youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building.
I agree with like..most? of this? A recomp simply defined is just changing musculature in relation to fat in a positive ratio. So a 300 pound man with 40% bodyfat that manages to stay 300lb and ends up 30% bodyfat is technically in a recomp. In the more "fit" circles, a recomp might indicate someone that is 15% bodyfat maintaining or gaining muscle and strength while getting to 12%, thereby altering the muscle-to-fat ratio without altering mass (or losing mass to a small degree). We may argue until we're blue in the face, but it's quite hard to gain muscle while losing fat, if not flat out impossible for the disadvantaged. So how is it that we can even recomp? Genetics.
If our nutrient partitioning favors muscle to fat with the increases in calories in the state of a caloric surplus, we gain muscle at a faster rate in relation to fat. If our nutrient partitioning favors burning fat in relation to muscle in the times of caloric deficit, we lose fat faster than we lose muscle by a pretty grand scale. Recomp is ONLY possible if you're talking about lean to fat ratios over very long extended periods of time. A successful recomp is a maximization of those times we are in surplus towards gaining muscle and a minimization of muscle loss in relation to fat loss in a deficit, which theoretically and anecdotally results in a stronger,and
leaner individual. Here are the rules you might be interested in:
1. A "true" recomp takes years...and a really good understanding of your own body in relation to energy input and output.
2. A "newbie gains" recomp (where the person gains muscle but does not get considerably fatter in the first year or two of training and dieting) is only achievable in the genetically limited window in which his or her body allows...and diminishing returns come quick and hard.
3. Sadly, a recomp is not in the cards for everyone. Those genetically predisposed to gaining fat at a higher rate than muscle and losing muscle at a higher rate than fat will literaly never achieve recomp, I'm sorry to say.
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Perhaps it would be good to add to the statement - "You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building."
If you are already or almost at a healthy weight, but because of a bad diet and exercise routine have ended up skinny fat (higher BF% than desired), don't attempt to get "pretty lean" by going underweight with more of the same methods.
Ready for recomp already.
Or define "pretty lean".6 -
Perhaps it would be good to add to the statement - "You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building."
If you are already or almost at a healthy weight, but because of a bad diet and exercise routine have ended up skinny fat (higher BF% than desired), don't attempt to get "pretty lean" by going underweight with more of the same methods.
Ready for recomp already.
Or define "pretty lean".
"Pretty lean" will vary for everyone hence why I wouldn't want to define it. From my reading it would seem to mean a bodyfat percentage would be in the region of 15% for males and 20% for females. However it will vary for everyone.
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youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
You have a Normal BMI of 24 and are likely in a normal body fat range if you think you are in the 25-30% body fat range visually. What is your ultimate bf goal?
I did recomp at BMI 24 last summer because I was "squishier" (is that a word?) than I wanted to be and was starting to get a little muffin top. I saw quick results-- flatter stomach, smaller abdomen, and overall felt and looked more defined.
I would say if you are wanting to maintain your weight, build muscle and lower your body fat percentage then go for it! Why not try? That way even when you do decide to start cutting again you will start out with more lean body mass than you have currently. Otherwise you could lose more muscle and be "squishy" thin instead of firm when you get to goal.
Edited for clarification1 -
This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/0 -
This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/
I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.
ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/0 -
This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/
I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.
ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p10 -
This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/
I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.
ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1
Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.
Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.
Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!0 -
This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/
I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.
ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1
Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.
Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.
Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!
Bro, do you even AmazonFresh?4 -
youdoyou2016 wrote: »I've read all the posts / pages to this thread ... but if I read this awhile ago, I am sorry that I'm just not remembering it:
Is there a rule of thumb for what percentage body fat to be at to start a recomp?
I'm 5' 1/2", 123 lbs. When I look at pics / sites that estimate BF%, I think I'm between 25-30%. I used an online calculator that asked for height, weight, waist and neck size, and I got 27%. I guess my ideal weight is 105?
I am tempted to just keep losing until I hit 110ish. I am fine eating at a deficit. But am wondering what those with some experience think.
You have a Normal BMI of 24 and are likely in a normal body fat range if you think you are in the 25-30% body fat range visually. What is your ultimate bf goal?
I did recomp at BMI 24 last summer because I was "squishier" (is that a word?) than I wanted to be and was starting to get a little muffin top. I saw quick results-- flatter stomach, smaller abdomen, and overall felt and looked more defined.
I would say if you are wanting to maintain your weight, build muscle and lower your body fat percentage then go for it! Why not try? That way even when you do decide to start cutting again you will start out with more lean body mass than you have currently. Otherwise you could lose more muscle and be "squishy" thin instead of firm when you get to goal.
Edited for clarification
Yeah, squishy is precisely how I'd describe myself. Thanks for sharing your experience -- it helps / makes sense. 1 -
Perhaps it would be good to add to the statement - "You shouldn't think about "recomp" until you are pretty lean already. With more bodyfat, your hormones are in a less ideal position for muscle building."
If you are already or almost at a healthy weight, but because of a bad diet and exercise routine have ended up skinny fat (higher BF% than desired), don't attempt to get "pretty lean" by going underweight with more of the same methods.
Ready for recomp already.
Or define "pretty lean".
I'm glad you clarified this point because this is where I'm at. I'm 5'7" and just got back down to 131 lbs. I have PCOS, most likely with IR (previously had prediabetes) and my belly has always been by far my trouble spot. I've learned from experimenting that if I start to go below 130, I really get too thin in places but I still have a very disproportionate amount of fat in my belly (and somewhat my upper thighs). I also have no idea what my BF% is because of how it's distributed. Recomp it is!!
Reading this thread was also helpful because I did physical therapy last year and the PT really recommended I stick with body weight workouts and/or machines for strength. Starting with body weight and it's good to know progress may be quite slow. (I have MS and some weakness that's likely from that; also hypermobility and get minor injuries relatively easily).2
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