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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Or a weak, whiney parent presenting some chronically indulged little kid with a million options at the IHOP while the waitress has to stand there. "Do you want pancakes Honey? Or how about two scrambled eggs? How about some toast with butter and cinnamon sugar? Do you want milk? No? But you like all those things. What's with the sourpuss? What would you like then? Look at me sweetheart. The girl is waiting. How about French toast. They have the syrup you like. You could even have a hamburger sweetie. Sweetie? Come on now. Answer me. Would you like butter on your pancakes or she can serve it on the side. Honey?" Wait 'til this brat grows up to be the office supervisor.
Having terrible flashbacks to my time as a waitress.
Me too. Remembering the awfulness of not being able to roll my eyes, walk away, or even scream at them. To this day, if I dine with anyone who inadvertently tortures a waiter or waitress, I will never eat in a restaurant with them again.
No better insight into the minds of others, simply watching how they treat those who serve them.
Not necessarily. I can seem very crass if you read me wrong, but I am just not there for pleasantries, and I know the waiter/waitress isn't either, even if they get paid to seem like they are. I am efficienct with order delivery, to the point with any answer to a question, and so long as my coffee cup never empties, they've already earned at minimum, a $20 tip. Yeah, I've given 1200% tips before for that reason alone.
Still doesn't stop people from telling me that I'm an a-hole for not smiling or being personable.
Do you at least say please and thank you?
Please? No. I don't say "please" for anything, ever.
Thanks? Absolutely.
Yeah. I wouldn't date you. Please is still part of manners when talking to waitstaff.
Ehh, it's a personal issue. Please is reserved for one very specific person under a very specific set of circumstances. Neither of which really need to be discussed here. I'll just leave it at "random waitress 343896" is not said person.3 -
No excuse for bad manners. None.
It is inexcusable.
It shows ignorance and lack of character.
The breakdown of modern society, and very definitely, not at good thing.6 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Or a weak, whiney parent presenting some chronically indulged little kid with a million options at the IHOP while the waitress has to stand there. "Do you want pancakes Honey? Or how about two scrambled eggs? How about some toast with butter and cinnamon sugar? Do you want milk? No? But you like all those things. What's with the sourpuss? What would you like then? Look at me sweetheart. The girl is waiting. How about French toast. They have the syrup you like. You could even have a hamburger sweetie. Sweetie? Come on now. Answer me. Would you like butter on your pancakes or she can serve it on the side. Honey?" Wait 'til this brat grows up to be the office supervisor.
Having terrible flashbacks to my time as a waitress.
Me too. Remembering the awfulness of not being able to roll my eyes, walk away, or even scream at them. To this day, if I dine with anyone who inadvertently tortures a waiter or waitress, I will never eat in a restaurant with them again.
No better insight into the minds of others, simply watching how they treat those who serve them.
Not necessarily. I can seem very crass if you read me wrong, but I am just not there for pleasantries, and I know the waiter/waitress isn't either, even if they get paid to seem like they are. I am efficienct with order delivery, to the point with any answer to a question, and so long as my coffee cup never empties, they've already earned at minimum, a $20 tip. Yeah, I've given 1200% tips before for that reason alone.
Still doesn't stop people from telling me that I'm an a-hole for not smiling or being personable.
Do you at least say please and thank you?
Please? No. I don't say "please" for anything, ever.
Thanks? Absolutely.
Yeah. I wouldn't date you. Please is still part of manners when talking to waitstaff.
Ehh, it's a personal issue. Please is reserved for one very specific person under a very specific set of circumstances. Neither of which really need to be discussed here. I'll just leave it at "random waitress 343896" is not said person.
My personal take, as someone who worked in service jobs for years. If someone was speaking in a courteous way, I probably wouldn't even notice if they said "please" or not. I mean, I say it, but I didn't *expect* it when I was at work. I didn't expect small talk or specific phrases. I was there to do a job and if they wanted me to be social, I would do that for them. But if they didn't want to be social, it wasn't my job to force it on them.
Some of the worst customers I had would *say* all the right words, but be utterly awful. And some of the best hardly said anything at all.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Or a weak, whiney parent presenting some chronically indulged little kid with a million options at the IHOP while the waitress has to stand there. "Do you want pancakes Honey? Or how about two scrambled eggs? How about some toast with butter and cinnamon sugar? Do you want milk? No? But you like all those things. What's with the sourpuss? What would you like then? Look at me sweetheart. The girl is waiting. How about French toast. They have the syrup you like. You could even have a hamburger sweetie. Sweetie? Come on now. Answer me. Would you like butter on your pancakes or she can serve it on the side. Honey?" Wait 'til this brat grows up to be the office supervisor.
Having terrible flashbacks to my time as a waitress.
Me too. Remembering the awfulness of not being able to roll my eyes, walk away, or even scream at them. To this day, if I dine with anyone who inadvertently tortures a waiter or waitress, I will never eat in a restaurant with them again.
No better insight into the minds of others, simply watching how they treat those who serve them.
Not necessarily. I can seem very crass if you read me wrong, but I am just not there for pleasantries, and I know the waiter/waitress isn't either, even if they get paid to seem like they are. I am efficienct with order delivery, to the point with any answer to a question, and so long as my coffee cup never empties, they've already earned at minimum, a $20 tip. Yeah, I've given 1200% tips before for that reason alone.
Still doesn't stop people from telling me that I'm an a-hole for not smiling or being personable.
Do you at least say please and thank you?
Please? No. I don't say "please" for anything, ever.
Thanks? Absolutely.
Yeah. I wouldn't date you. Please is still part of manners when talking to waitstaff.
Ehh, it's a personal issue. Please is reserved for one very specific person under a very specific set of circumstances. Neither of which really need to be discussed here. I'll just leave it at "random waitress 343896" is not said person.
My personal take, as someone who worked in service jobs for years. If someone was speaking in a courteous way, I probably wouldn't even notice if they said "please" or not. I mean, I say it, but I didn't *expect* it when I was at work. I didn't expect small talk or specific phrases. I was there to do a job and if they wanted me to be social, I would do that for them. But if they didn't want to be social, it wasn't my job to force it on them.
Some of the worst customers I had would *say* all the right words, but be utterly awful. And some of the best hardly said anything at all.
Precisely. The only things servers need from me is my order, and a generous tip. Everything else is pointless and only slows the process.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »My personal take, as someone who worked in service jobs for years. If someone was speaking in a courteous way, I probably wouldn't even notice if they said "please" or not. I mean, I say it, but I didn't *expect* it when I was at work. I didn't expect small talk or specific phrases. I was there to do a job and if they wanted me to be social, I would do that for them. But if they didn't want to be social, it wasn't my job to force it on them.
Some of the worst customers I had would *say* all the right words, but be utterly awful. And some of the best hardly said anything at all.
To me there is a big difference between being social with a waitstaff and being courteous. I only worked fast food, so I was happy to not be sworn at, but a simple please and thank you, and putting your phone down when ordering, are not too much to ask when dealing with another person. Doesn't mean I need to chat.
And I tip pretty well unless I'm ticked off at something.
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Any competent wait staff keys off the vibes from the customer. They'll fish a bit to try establish a connection (good for tip) but should pick up when convo is not desired.3
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Any competent wait staff keys off the vibes from the customer. They'll fish a bit to try establish a connection (good for tip) but should pick up when convo is not desired.
This.
And as a former waitress/bartender, "please" was never required, or even expected, from a guest. "Thank you" was ALWAYS appreciated and some days, a "thank you" can mean so much more than a big tip.3 -
Any competent wait staff keys off the vibes from the customer. They'll fish a bit to try establish a connection (good for tip) but should pick up when convo is not desired.
This.
And as a former waitress/bartender, "please" was never required, or even expected, from a guest. "Thank you" was ALWAYS appreciated and some days, a "thank you" can mean so much more than a big tip.
Yup, former bartender, waitress, hospitality manager here. Please never bothered me. I did like a thank you, but you took the customer at face value and picked up on their vibe. Being flexible like that is the key to being good at your job. Sometimes, giving efficient service to the guy or girl who barely acknowledged your existence led to the biggest tips, and the most loyal return customers.3 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Any competent wait staff keys off the vibes from the customer. They'll fish a bit to try establish a connection (good for tip) but should pick up when convo is not desired.
This.
And as a former waitress/bartender, "please" was never required, or even expected, from a guest. "Thank you" was ALWAYS appreciated and some days, a "thank you" can mean so much more than a big tip.
Yup, former bartender, waitress, hospitality manager here. Please never bothered me. I did like a thank you, but you took the customer at face value and picked up on their vibe. Being flexible like that is the key to being good at your job. Sometimes, giving efficient service to the guy or girl who barely acknowledged your existence led to the biggest tips, and the most loyal return customers.
And then there were the ones you had a great connection with, chatted them up, good meal, and you did special favors for, yet they would stiff on the tip. So frustrating sometimes.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Any competent wait staff keys off the vibes from the customer. They'll fish a bit to try establish a connection (good for tip) but should pick up when convo is not desired.
This.
And as a former waitress/bartender, "please" was never required, or even expected, from a guest. "Thank you" was ALWAYS appreciated and some days, a "thank you" can mean so much more than a big tip.
Yup, former bartender, waitress, hospitality manager here. Please never bothered me. I did like a thank you, but you took the customer at face value and picked up on their vibe. Being flexible like that is the key to being good at your job. Sometimes, giving efficient service to the guy or girl who barely acknowledged your existence led to the biggest tips, and the most loyal return customers.
I will say that my ex-wife and I had one particular server at a local restaurant that we always specifically asked to be seated for. This is the only time I have ever done this.
The reason was, the guy acted like a "real person" to a degree that most would call unprofessional. I enjoyed his *kitten* up humor and smartassed comments about other customers who were shitheads. Something tells me that I am the minority though, and that he likely didn't act that way with everyone, or he'd have been canned long ago. To this day, he's the only server I've ever had be able to read us that well, AND have tge satchel to act on it. I was so shocked and impressed by it the first visit, that we decided to leave him tge change from $100 on a $23 tab as a tip, and really, he might have spent a total of five minutes on us.
It can definitely pay to know your audience.5 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »My personal take, as someone who worked in service jobs for years. If someone was speaking in a courteous way, I probably wouldn't even notice if they said "please" or not. I mean, I say it, but I didn't *expect* it when I was at work. I didn't expect small talk or specific phrases. I was there to do a job and if they wanted me to be social, I would do that for them. But if they didn't want to be social, it wasn't my job to force it on them.
Some of the worst customers I had would *say* all the right words, but be utterly awful. And some of the best hardly said anything at all.
To me there is a big difference between being social with a waitstaff and being courteous. I only worked fast food, so I was happy to not be sworn at, but a simple please and thank you, and putting your phone down when ordering, are not too much to ask when dealing with another person. Doesn't mean I need to chat.
And I tip pretty well unless I'm ticked off at something.
I didn't mean to conflate being social and being courteous, I just meant that I don't consider "please" and "thank you" to be necessary components of courtesy. They're appreciated, but other things that go into courtesy are a pleasant tone of voice, body language, being considerate and not creating unnecessary extra work for a server (like making a mess at a table), letting me know when you're not ready to order so I can take care of other work, etc. If someone did all those things and just didn't say "please," I wouldn't consider that to be a failure of courtesy.0 -
Sorry but that's simply not true. You do miss out on some parts of life when you are obese because you are simply unable to physically keep up. Doesn't mean you can't do something else you enjoy, but that doesn't alter the fact that you will miss out on some things if you are obese. You can't just choose to play hockey or soccer or go hiking if you are obese and physically unable to complete the task. If you're with a group of friends or family that decides they'd like to engage in some physical activity you can't do, you miss out.
The only way IMO that you miss out on life is if you turn your back on it. Obese people might not be able to climb a mountain but there are other things that they can do to enjoy life.
I agree with the weight being hard on you as you grow older. However being obese affects the young in different ways...the opinions of others has more of an affect on you than when you are older. Quite frankly at age 64...I could care less about what others think of me.
No one however has to miss out on life if they choose not to. Even people that are bed ridden can enjoy the life that they have been given.
I've been there. In fact, not being able to play hockey anymore because I was simply too fat to keep up was a big eye opener and turning point in my health and fitness.
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JohnnyPenso wrote: »
Sorry but that's simply not true. You do miss out on some parts of life when you are obese because you are simply unable to physically keep up. Doesn't mean you can't do something else you enjoy, but that doesn't alter the fact that you will miss out on some things if you are obese. You can't just choose to play hockey or soccer or go hiking if you are obese and physically unable to complete the task. If you're with a group of friends or family that decides they'd like to engage in some physical activity you can't do, you miss out.
The only way IMO that you miss out on life is if you turn your back on it. Obese people might not be able to climb a mountain but there are other things that they can do to enjoy life.
I agree with the weight being hard on you as you grow older. However being obese affects the young in different ways...the opinions of others has more of an affect on you than when you are older. Quite frankly at age 64...I could care less about what others think of me.
No one however has to miss out on life if they choose not to. Even people that are bed ridden can enjoy the life that they have been given.
I've been there. In fact, not being able to play hockey anymore because I was simply too fat to keep up was a big eye opener and turning point in my health and fitness.
What part of my statement is not true??? I didn't lie...I only stated my opinion.
BTW...I was obese when I started hiking.
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sashayoung72 wrote: »I was morbidly obese. I didn't have high cholesterol, I wasn't pre diabetic, my blood work was great. No one was making fun of me or making me feel bad about myself. But I felt like crap day in and day out. I was in pain from being big. I am down 80 and full of life. I feel like FA is a load of crap being twisted. No we shouldn't make fun but lets be realistic, MORBIDLY OBESE just ain't healthy.
Yes. Eventually the gained fat starts to hurt the internal organs and body mechanism. However one can be little overweight yet fit. I think one should aim for fitness and losing the extra weight is part of it. What I see that it's not only vanity.0 -
I thought it was self explanatory. Whether you miss out on things isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You can't keep up with your peers playing hockey or any other sport requiring endurance and all around physical ability, if you are obese. Sure you can still play hockey, with other people similarly slow and lacking in stamina, but you can't necessarily play with your friends. Same goes for most intensely physical activities. I've been there and I have friends that were there, are there and are heading there. They, and I, miss(ed) out on many things with our friends and significant others, children etc., simply because we weren't/aren't able to keep up.
What part of my statement is not true??? I didn't lie...I only stated my opinion.
BTW...I was obese when I started hiking.
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JohnnyPenso wrote: »
You might GAF about fatness when you lose that 70 lbs and have some skin hanging off your belly that flaps in a strong windtmoneyag99 wrote: »I haven't read the whole thread and I want to say this. At the base of it all is the thought that a fat person doesn't deserve love or respect because they are fat.
I used to be in the same category as many of you that it was silly. And then... I got fat. (rough pregnancy and some stressful times)
They way people treat me now is horrible. Many of the people now in my department didn't know me from my "skinny" days. So I'm not allowed to join in conversations about nutrition or exercise. Nevermind that I have run a half-marathon and used to run 4miles daily. Instead I get recommendations on how to lose the weight and how to exercise. When I want to say "Erm yeah, when I'm done I'll be able to kick your butt at the gym" but this experience has made me FAR more empathetic. I'm actually very thankful for it.
And @Christine_72 My weight is not the center of my focus. I have a family and a son that is 2.5 and he is the center of my world. I am VERY happy with my life. While I am trying to lose weight for the sake of my health my weight has no bearing on my happiness. Infact, I can tell you that while life is full of peaks and vallies I am currently experiencing a peak. I am 70lbs overweight but I am very happy with my life.
I don't GAF about the fatness. It's just something that for the sake of health needs to change. Kind of like taking antibiotics. I don't get forlorn because I have a sinus infection. I go to the doctor, get on the meds and get rid of the damn thing. The same thing about fat. I'm not depressed or ashamed when I look in the mirror. I have never been a binge eater. The weight came on due to some crazy life events. WHICH is often the story of many obese people. BUT obesity isn't as easy to fix as a sinus infection. THAT is what gets some people forlorn. When they bust their butts and the scale barely budges.
The Fat acceptance movement isn't about thinking obesity is okay. It's about recognizing that a fat person is more than just that extra weight they have. The person you are looking at might have a good sense of humor. They actually might have more self confidence, better self image, better self worth than you.
I mean imagine for one minute a fat person being PROUD that they are a good parent, a great engineer, have discovered an important protein that might help fight cancer, or even has saved a child from a life of physical and sexual abuse. Imagine it because those people exist. I know them personally. For these people, the things they do WITH their life is far more important to them than what they look like to others. These people deserve to be loved and respected. They may be shortening their lives with their diet (which really is heart breaking) but the impact they have on the world is far more than some "healthy" people do. So accept that they are fat, and thank them for their contributions to society.
I've been pretty lucky that it hasn't affected me much and I'm down 75 lbs from my peak of 240 but I've seen others that were pretty severe. Surgery is the only way to permanently deal with it and I can't imagine being really happy about looking like that. You'd never wear tight clothes again that's for sure.
Another thing is, it doesn't affect you much when you are young but as you get older the extra weight really drags you down. Your joints start to ache, you have less and less energy as the years go by, you'll get injured more and more. You'll have health issues you wouldn't otherwise have had. You'll find you can't keep up to your kids, your grandkids, nieces, nephews etc. You'll miss out on life simply because you can't do what everyone else can do eventually.
The bolded is what I responded to initially. While you might miss out playing soccer with your friends that doesn't mean that you miss out on life. Life is what we make of it at any weight that we happen to be.
I wasn't arguing that life isn't more difficult when you are obese...I have been there and it certainly was for me. If I missed out on life it was not because of my weight it was because I allowed life to pass me by...more so for other reasons.
I personally believe that even the obese person can enjoy life...even if there are some things that would be more difficult for them.
On a side note...one of the reasons that I chose to lose weight and work on my fitness was due to somethings that were difficult for me to do...I wanted to do more. What I found out was that while even being obese...I could do more than what I was giving myself credit for. I just didn't try to do those things because I thought I was too fat. I thought people would say look at the old fat lady dancing...hiking...running...etc...etc. I placed too much emphasis on what I assumed other people would think. Now...I really don't care...
I think sometimes we assume we can't do thus we don't try.
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This is a toughy. Of course I agree that people should not be judged based on their body size or weight. But, a total Fat Acceptance Movement does somewhat bother me. It seems that obesity has become normal for our society as a whole. In the United States a women's size 16 is now considered average, that's crazy! How can we say healthy at any size? I am currently a size 14, I eat tons of lean protein, fruits and veggies and whole grains, I have lost close to 50 lbs, my blood work is phenomenal...BUT my heart is still under stress due to my size, my joints ache and I have a greater risk for developing diabetes and heart related disorders due to obesity. How is that healthy? Our country as a whole should be focused on reducing the obesity rate, teach people how to live a healthy lifestyle, decrease the amount of garbage in our supermarkets, etc. We as a country need to open our eyes and start caring more about our health and demand better for ourselves.
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I think that shaming people for the size of their bodies is unbelievably cruel and should not happen, ever. Having said that, it is worrisome to me that it is becoming socially acceptable to be so very overweight. It is super unhealthy and can lead to early death. But, I can only do so much in my little corner of the world, so I encourage my girls to eat right and get decent amounts of exercise, and talk to them openly (and kindly) about the dangers of being obese.
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I agree with this statement. As a health care provider, I feel people should be educated about the risks involved with obesity.5
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I think that people should be respected regardless of their body size, but the fat acceptance movement just promotes the idea that being obese is healthy and okay, which is false.3
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Denying reality doesn't make it go away. The healthcare system is overburdened, largely because of lifestyle choices. We're not talking about ten or 20 extra
Pounds here. Fat people know they are fat, and of course, schoolyard style taunts are unkind and ridiculous. But making obese a protected status is ridiculous. Also, the risk of "making" your child anorexic is minuscule compared to making him or her obese.9 -
Not to derail but there's another term I've come across recently that seems to intersect -- "Coercive Healthism." It's the idea that being optimally healthy is a moral responsibility.
I'm going to be a shitlord and say yes, it is kind of a moral responsibility.1 -
Treasonous wrote: »Denying reality doesn't make it go away. The healthcare system is overburdened, largely because of lifestyle choices. We're not talking about ten or 20 extra
Pounds here. Fat people know they are fat, and of course, schoolyard style taunts are unkind and ridiculous. But making obese a protected status is ridiculous. Also, the risk of "making" your child anorexic is minuscule compared to making him or her obese.
You do realize that among adolescents the rate of anorexia and bulimia are quite high?
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Not to derail but there's another term I've come across recently that seems to intersect -- "Coercive Healthism." It's the idea that being optimally healthy is a moral responsibility.
I'm going to be a shitlord and say yes, it is kind of a moral responsibility.
I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
eta: I doubt that people who feel they are worthless because they're not as healthy as they could be (and who decides what that is?) are going to be motivated by that to improve their health, especially because having been fat, they're probably never going to see the "optimal" health they could have achieved if they had never gotten fat in the first place.3 -
I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
Notice I said "optimally healthy." That will mean something different for everyone based on individual factors, and it won't necessarily mean slim or uber athletic.
I know Christianity does, but don't most organized religions have something to say about treating one's body nicely -- like a temple?
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I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
Notice I said "optimally healthy." That will mean something different for everyone based on individual factors, and it won't necessarily mean slim or uber athletic.
I know Christianity does, but don't most organized religions have something to say about treating one's body nicely -- like a temple?
But see, that's the point! You're saying everyone should observe the rules of one or another organized religion - and again, who gets to decide which one? And realistically, if "optimally healthy" means something different for everyone, it really doesn't have much meaning.3 -
The Sunday-Go-To-Meeting dinners on the grounds that I used to attend as a child were far from "optimally healthy". If it wasn't swimming in grease (mostly lard)...or half a pound of sugar in each dessert...it didn't go on the table.
Some people might also believe that treating one's body nicely is giving it what it craves.
As a society...trying to impose "rules"...could lead to a world we don't want.
I agree...health issues pertaining to obesity are out of control. I just don't think that we can arbitrarily decide for someone else how they live their lives.
Assigning weight management to the "moral" category...I am not sure I agree with that though I do understand why someone might.2 -
I have chosen to self identify as skinny and also selected that as my accepted personal pronoun.6
This discussion has been closed.
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