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Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat

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  • FitBody3FitBody3 Member, Premium Posts: 36 Member Member, Premium Posts: 36 Member
    Hello
    I just found this thread and its exactly what I needed as I am so confused about recomposition and have some questions. I posted these already , but I figured it would make more sense to post them on this specific thread .

    1. Which is more important to look at : Macros or nutrients on MFP when doing recomp ?
    2. What should be the macro percentages for recomp ?
    3. Should I calculate macros/ nutrients daily or weekly ? As I usually bank calories for the weekend.
    4. How do you calculate macros when eating out ?
    5. If I do not hit one of my macros , especially protein ,will my training be in vain ?

    Thank you
  • FitBody3FitBody3 Member, Premium Posts: 36 Member Member, Premium Posts: 36 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    FitBody3 wrote: »
    Hello
    I just found this thread and its exactly what I needed as I am so confused about recomposition and have some questions. I posted these already , but I figured it would make more sense to post them on this specific thread .

    1. Which is more important to look at : Macros or nutrients on MFP when doing recomp ?
    2. What should be the macro percentages for recomp ?
    3. Should I calculate macros/ nutrients daily or weekly ? As I usually bank calories for the weekend.
    4. How do you calculate macros when eating out ?
    5. If I do not hit one of my macros , especially protein ,will my training be in vain ?

    Thank you

    @FitBody3
    1. Macro is short for macronutrient so don't really get your question. Most important thing is your training, with no muscle stimulus there's no growth.
    2. Not that vital - have an overall healthy diet that you enjoy. Sensible to have a reasonable protein goal when you are training hard.
    3. Doesn't matter.
    4. Doesn't matter.
    5. No.

    Your focus is all wrong - recomp starts with your training, diet merely supports the process.
    It's not at all confusing, it's just your body's natural response to training stimulus and doesn't have to be micro managed.

    Thank you so much ! You made it sound so easy and I have much more motivation now that I know that diet is not that important :)
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,758 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,758 MFP Moderator
    aelunyu wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kkress92 wrote: »
    This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

    I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.

    ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/

    That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1

    Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.

    Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.

    Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!

    Oh wow, someone linked to Lyle McDonald's blog...this might turn into Bodybuilding.com forums circa 2009. Martin from Leangains is probably creeping somewhere in the shadows as well... Intermittent fasters rejoice!

    In all seriousness, we owe much of what we understand about "recomp" to Lyle and his work...even if in recent years he's become more protective and defensive of his insights (some would say abrasively so). That's an understandable reaction, since he is generally not credited when people these days talk about body recomposition, being one of the establishing authors of the concept. I bring up Martin Berkhan above for the same reason in relation to IF.

    It's important to understand that the terms we throw around on these forums were the result of some individual's hard work. If it were not for Lyle, perhaps we'd all be doing bulk/cut cycles forever! If it weren't for Martin, we may still all be eating 6-8 meals every day to lose weight, and without people like Alan Aragon (science of nutrition and performance) and Layne Norton and his pupil Berto Nunez (If it fits your macros or IIFYM), we may never have challenged the conventional modes of dieting.

    I'm sure if the above posters read deeply into Lyle's earlier works, they'll find that he was the first one to research and offer it to the masses, for free, no strings attached and with no personal monetary agenda. I owe a great bit to these individuals and if you really want to TRULY understand body recomposition, Lyle's blog is certainly not a bad resource.

    I can certainly vouche that all of those people you discussion, with the exception of Martin, are highly discussed. It's a shame that Martin doesn't get as much credit on IF, because he did lay a solid foundation. It has also been spun to be in support of LCHF a lot. I have had a few debates on IF recently, and people talk about the huge benefits (potential increase in metabolism, improve insulin sensitivity, potential link to prevention of alzheimers) and spin it as a LCHF diet. And whats ironic, is several cases, they have reference the work of Martin, without realizing that Martin does fairly low fat, high carb/high protein. And a large portion of his diet is starches and increase ice cream... daily.
  • s3rialthrill3rs3rialthrill3r Member Posts: 49 Member Member Posts: 49 Member
    aelunyu wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    aelunyu wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kkress92 wrote: »
    This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

    I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.

    ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/

    That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1

    Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.

    Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.

    Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!

    Oh wow, someone linked to Lyle McDonald's blog...this might turn into Bodybuilding.com forums circa 2009. Martin from Leangains is probably creeping somewhere in the shadows as well... Intermittent fasters rejoice!

    In all seriousness, we owe much of what we understand about "recomp" to Lyle and his work...even if in recent years he's become more protective and defensive of his insights (some would say abrasively so). That's an understandable reaction, since he is generally not credited when people these days talk about body recomposition, being one of the establishing authors of the concept. I bring up Martin Berkhan above for the same reason in relation to IF.

    It's important to understand that the terms we throw around on these forums were the result of some individual's hard work. If it were not for Lyle, perhaps we'd all be doing bulk/cut cycles forever! If it weren't for Martin, we may still all be eating 6-8 meals every day to lose weight, and without people like Alan Aragon (science of nutrition and performance) and Layne Norton and his pupil Berto Nunez (If it fits your macros or IIFYM), we may never have challenged the conventional modes of dieting.

    I'm sure if the above posters read deeply into Lyle's earlier works, they'll find that he was the first one to research and offer it to the masses, for free, no strings attached and with no personal monetary agenda. I owe a great bit to these individuals and if you really want to TRULY understand body recomposition, Lyle's blog is certainly not a bad resource.

    I can certainly vouche that all of those people you discussion, with the exception of Martin, are highly discussed. It's a shame that Martin doesn't get as much credit on IF, because he did lay a solid foundation. It has also been spun to be in support of LCHF a lot. I have had a few debates on IF recently, and people talk about the huge benefits (potential increase in metabolism, improve insulin sensitivity, potential link to prevention of alzheimers) and spin it as a LCHF diet. And whats ironic, is several cases, they have reference the work of Martin, without realizing that Martin does fairly low fat, high carb/high protein. And a large portion of his diet is starches and increase ice cream... daily.

    Haha, the really sad part about it is these people don't get exposure/credit because simply they are too focused on the work itself. These people talk about nutrition and exercise performance in bougie fitness/science vernacular which is understandably hard for the average dieter to tolerate let alone digest. The engineering departments hardly ever talk to the end users for that reason (I chuckle as I type because now I'm thinking about Tom getting interviewed by The Bobs in Office Space and he's screaming at them that the engineers are not good at dealing with customers!!!). I'm glad these guys get a fair shake on here, even if they aren't the most agreeable in format or even personality sometimes. It's quite a shame about Martin because his interpretation of IF is such a beautiful tool and has nothing to do with food selection, but let the spinsters spin. Maybe something good will come of it.

    Re-comp, is comp-licated (sorry, had to). it doesn't have to be. The more you start digging into the parameters of a recomp as outlined by Lyle and his peers, the more you'll find it to be a never ending black hole of ever-expanding parameters. Each tier of this black hole as you fall deeper becomes more ridiculous to the outsider looking in, but somehow more important to you, the fallen. At the bottom of the hole, you're looking up things in a medical textbook to validate a preformed notion about what recomp actually means. I see hallmarks of this when people start debating optimal BF% to start a recomp as if it were the single crucial factor. No mention of family/genetic history of obesity. Joint tolerances? NEAT levels? T levels? Where does it stop and how much does it matter.

    You can start your recomp program today, and learn along the way. We as a community can try to help you, but the learning process is strictly yours and you must take ownership of it.


    I've come across Lyle and Martin's sites quite some time ago, but I didn't take the time to read through much of their work because I was getting hit by information from a lot of blogs and sites at the time I first decided to work out consistently (way before I even thought about diet). Are there any posts or works in particular that are a good starting point? Or is it all textual gold?
    edited February 2017
  • trigden1991trigden1991 Member Posts: 4,660 Member Member Posts: 4,660 Member
    aelunyu wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    aelunyu wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kkress92 wrote: »
    This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

    I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.

    ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/

    That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1

    Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.

    Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.

    Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!

    Oh wow, someone linked to Lyle McDonald's blog...this might turn into Bodybuilding.com forums circa 2009. Martin from Leangains is probably creeping somewhere in the shadows as well... Intermittent fasters rejoice!

    In all seriousness, we owe much of what we understand about "recomp" to Lyle and his work...even if in recent years he's become more protective and defensive of his insights (some would say abrasively so). That's an understandable reaction, since he is generally not credited when people these days talk about body recomposition, being one of the establishing authors of the concept. I bring up Martin Berkhan above for the same reason in relation to IF.

    It's important to understand that the terms we throw around on these forums were the result of some individual's hard work. If it were not for Lyle, perhaps we'd all be doing bulk/cut cycles forever! If it weren't for Martin, we may still all be eating 6-8 meals every day to lose weight, and without people like Alan Aragon (science of nutrition and performance) and Layne Norton and his pupil Berto Nunez (If it fits your macros or IIFYM), we may never have challenged the conventional modes of dieting.

    I'm sure if the above posters read deeply into Lyle's earlier works, they'll find that he was the first one to research and offer it to the masses, for free, no strings attached and with no personal monetary agenda. I owe a great bit to these individuals and if you really want to TRULY understand body recomposition, Lyle's blog is certainly not a bad resource.

    I can certainly vouche that all of those people you discussion, with the exception of Martin, are highly discussed. It's a shame that Martin doesn't get as much credit on IF, because he did lay a solid foundation. It has also been spun to be in support of LCHF a lot. I have had a few debates on IF recently, and people talk about the huge benefits (potential increase in metabolism, improve insulin sensitivity, potential link to prevention of alzheimers) and spin it as a LCHF diet. And whats ironic, is several cases, they have reference the work of Martin, without realizing that Martin does fairly low fat, high carb/high protein. And a large portion of his diet is starches and increase ice cream... daily.

    Haha, the really sad part about it is these people don't get exposure/credit because simply they are too focused on the work itself. These people talk about nutrition and exercise performance in bougie fitness/science vernacular which is understandably hard for the average dieter to tolerate let alone digest. The engineering departments hardly ever talk to the end users for that reason (I chuckle as I type because now I'm thinking about Tom getting interviewed by The Bobs in Office Space and he's screaming at them that the engineers are not good at dealing with customers!!!). I'm glad these guys get a fair shake on here, even if they aren't the most agreeable in format or even personality sometimes. It's quite a shame about Martin because his interpretation of IF is such a beautiful tool and has nothing to do with food selection, but let the spinsters spin. Maybe something good will come of it.

    Re-comp, is comp-licated (sorry, had to). it doesn't have to be. The more you start digging into the parameters of a recomp as outlined by Lyle and his peers, the more you'll find it to be a never ending black hole of ever-expanding parameters. Each tier of this black hole as you fall deeper becomes more ridiculous to the outsider looking in, but somehow more important to you, the fallen. At the bottom of the hole, you're looking up things in a medical textbook to validate a preformed notion about what recomp actually means. I see hallmarks of this when people start debating optimal BF% to start a recomp as if it were the single crucial factor. No mention of family/genetic history of obesity. Joint tolerances? NEAT levels? T levels? Where does it stop and how much does it matter.

    You can start your recomp program today, and learn along the way. We as a community can try to help you, but the learning process is strictly yours and you must take ownership of it.


    I've come across Lyle and Martin's sites quite some time ago, but I didn't take the time to read through much of their work because I was getting hit by information from a lot of blogs and sites at the time I first decided to work out consistently (way before I even thought about diet). Are there any posts or works in particular that are a good starting point? Or is it all textual gold?

    If you have the time (and patience) I highly recommend all of Lyle's books. I have read UD2.0, RFL, Flexible Dieting, Ketogenic Diet, BodyOpus experience and Bromocriptine and have learned a tonne about nutrition, physiology and more.
  • JenHuedyJenHuedy Member Posts: 611 Member Member Posts: 611 Member
    aelunyu wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    aelunyu wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kkress92 wrote: »
    This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

    I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.

    ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/

    That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1

    Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.

    Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.

    Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!

    Oh wow, someone linked to Lyle McDonald's blog...this might turn into Bodybuilding.com forums circa 2009. Martin from Leangains is probably creeping somewhere in the shadows as well... Intermittent fasters rejoice!

    In all seriousness, we owe much of what we understand about "recomp" to Lyle and his work...even if in recent years he's become more protective and defensive of his insights (some would say abrasively so). That's an understandable reaction, since he is generally not credited when people these days talk about body recomposition, being one of the establishing authors of the concept. I bring up Martin Berkhan above for the same reason in relation to IF.

    It's important to understand that the terms we throw around on these forums were the result of some individual's hard work. If it were not for Lyle, perhaps we'd all be doing bulk/cut cycles forever! If it weren't for Martin, we may still all be eating 6-8 meals every day to lose weight, and without people like Alan Aragon (science of nutrition and performance) and Layne Norton and his pupil Berto Nunez (If it fits your macros or IIFYM), we may never have challenged the conventional modes of dieting.

    I'm sure if the above posters read deeply into Lyle's earlier works, they'll find that he was the first one to research and offer it to the masses, for free, no strings attached and with no personal monetary agenda. I owe a great bit to these individuals and if you really want to TRULY understand body recomposition, Lyle's blog is certainly not a bad resource.

    I can certainly vouche that all of those people you discussion, with the exception of Martin, are highly discussed. It's a shame that Martin doesn't get as much credit on IF, because he did lay a solid foundation. It has also been spun to be in support of LCHF a lot. I have had a few debates on IF recently, and people talk about the huge benefits (potential increase in metabolism, improve insulin sensitivity, potential link to prevention of alzheimers) and spin it as a LCHF diet. And whats ironic, is several cases, they have reference the work of Martin, without realizing that Martin does fairly low fat, high carb/high protein. And a large portion of his diet is starches and increase ice cream... daily.

    Haha, the really sad part about it is these people don't get exposure/credit because simply they are too focused on the work itself. These people talk about nutrition and exercise performance in bougie fitness/science vernacular which is understandably hard for the average dieter to tolerate let alone digest. The engineering departments hardly ever talk to the end users for that reason (I chuckle as I type because now I'm thinking about Tom getting interviewed by The Bobs in Office Space and he's screaming at them that the engineers are not good at dealing with customers!!!). I'm glad these guys get a fair shake on here, even if they aren't the most agreeable in format or even personality sometimes. It's quite a shame about Martin because his interpretation of IF is such a beautiful tool and has nothing to do with food selection, but let the spinsters spin. Maybe something good will come of it.

    Re-comp, is comp-licated (sorry, had to). it doesn't have to be. The more you start digging into the parameters of a recomp as outlined by Lyle and his peers, the more you'll find it to be a never ending black hole of ever-expanding parameters. Each tier of this black hole as you fall deeper becomes more ridiculous to the outsider looking in, but somehow more important to you, the fallen. At the bottom of the hole, you're looking up things in a medical textbook to validate a preformed notion about what recomp actually means. I see hallmarks of this when people start debating optimal BF% to start a recomp as if it were the single crucial factor. No mention of family/genetic history of obesity. Joint tolerances? NEAT levels? T levels? Where does it stop and how much does it matter.

    You can start your recomp program today, and learn along the way. We as a community can try to help you, but the learning process is strictly yours and you must take ownership of it.


    I've come across Lyle and Martin's sites quite some time ago, but I didn't take the time to read through much of their work because I was getting hit by information from a lot of blogs and sites at the time I first decided to work out consistently (way before I even thought about diet). Are there any posts or works in particular that are a good starting point? Or is it all textual gold?

    If you have the time (and patience) I highly recommend all of Lyle's books. I have read UD2.0, RFL, Flexible Dieting, Ketogenic Diet, BodyOpus experience and Bromocriptine and have learned a tonne about nutrition, physiology and more.

    I've been patiently waiting for his long anticipated Women's Book. But it sounds like it might be delayed a bit longer (ankle surgery).
  • jeanXgreyjeanXgrey Member Posts: 2 Member Member Posts: 2 Member
    I'll be trying to start recomp in a bit. I'm 5'4" and about 115 lbs (roughly converted from 163 cm / 52 kg). I don't want to get below 50 kg, but really need to lower my body fat (around 21%) and build some muscle.

    I'll start at 1600 kcal and a 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat ratio and will adjust as I go if necessary.

    I'll be sure to keep you updated!

    P.S.: Do you have any suggestions for iOS apos to keep track of tape measurements, weight and body fat?
    edited February 2017
  • thejadegirlthejadegirl Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    jeanXgrey wrote: »
    I'll be trying to start recomp in a bit. I'm 5'4" and about 115 lbs (roughly converted from 163 cm / 52 kg). I don't want to get below 50 kg, but really need to lower my body fat (around 21%) and build some muscle.

    I'll start at 1600 kcal and a 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat ratio and will adjust as I go if necessary.

    I'll be sure to keep you updated!

    P.S.: Do you have any suggestions for iOS apos to keep track of tape measurements, weight and body fat?

    I use an app called "monitor your weight," which does track everything you've mentioned. But I have Android, so I'm not sure if it's available for iOS.
  • jeanXgreyjeanXgrey Member Posts: 2 Member Member Posts: 2 Member
    jeanXgrey wrote: »
    I'll be trying to start recomp in a bit. I'm 5'4" and about 115 lbs (roughly converted from 163 cm / 52 kg). I don't want to get below 50 kg, but really need to lower my body fat (around 21%) and build some muscle.

    I'll start at 1600 kcal and a 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat ratio and will adjust as I go if necessary.

    I'll be sure to keep you updated!

    P.S.: Do you have any suggestions for iOS apos to keep track of tape measurements, weight and body fat?

    I use an app called "monitor your weight," which does track everything you've mentioned. But I have Android, so I'm not sure if it's available for iOS.

    Thanks! It's available on the App Store! I'll try that one!
  • trigden1991trigden1991 Member Posts: 4,660 Member Member Posts: 4,660 Member
    JenHuedy wrote: »
    aelunyu wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    aelunyu wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kkress92 wrote: »
    This article suggests that for optimal recomposition, men should be in the 10-12% bf range and women in the 19-24% range.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

    I was "stuck" on a plateau, so I figured I might as well do something productive. I might have been at a bf% that was not optimal for recomp but still got results preferable to not doing anything.

    ETA-- Here is an interesting MFP blog:
    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/

    That blog looks ridiculous to me in terms of macro setup. It would have me eating 315g of protein per day on both training days and off days. His ratios are nowhere near the (far more sensible) ones I've seen posed by very knowledgeable people, such as in threads like this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p1

    Ditto - some of the comments after the blog show the same issue.

    Plus - when someone is willing to unnecessarily succumb to faddish vernacular right at the start "to burn fat and gain (lean) muscle" - makes me just look for problems.

    Gee - tell me how to gain fat muscle just in case I wanted to. How do I get a rib-eye besides going to the butcher!

    Oh wow, someone linked to Lyle McDonald's blog...this might turn into Bodybuilding.com forums circa 2009. Martin from Leangains is probably creeping somewhere in the shadows as well... Intermittent fasters rejoice!

    In all seriousness, we owe much of what we understand about "recomp" to Lyle and his work...even if in recent years he's become more protective and defensive of his insights (some would say abrasively so). That's an understandable reaction, since he is generally not credited when people these days talk about body recomposition, being one of the establishing authors of the concept. I bring up Martin Berkhan above for the same reason in relation to IF.

    It's important to understand that the terms we throw around on these forums were the result of some individual's hard work. If it were not for Lyle, perhaps we'd all be doing bulk/cut cycles forever! If it weren't for Martin, we may still all be eating 6-8 meals every day to lose weight, and without people like Alan Aragon (science of nutrition and performance) and Layne Norton and his pupil Berto Nunez (If it fits your macros or IIFYM), we may never have challenged the conventional modes of dieting.

    I'm sure if the above posters read deeply into Lyle's earlier works, they'll find that he was the first one to research and offer it to the masses, for free, no strings attached and with no personal monetary agenda. I owe a great bit to these individuals and if you really want to TRULY understand body recomposition, Lyle's blog is certainly not a bad resource.

    I can certainly vouche that all of those people you discussion, with the exception of Martin, are highly discussed. It's a shame that Martin doesn't get as much credit on IF, because he did lay a solid foundation. It has also been spun to be in support of LCHF a lot. I have had a few debates on IF recently, and people talk about the huge benefits (potential increase in metabolism, improve insulin sensitivity, potential link to prevention of alzheimers) and spin it as a LCHF diet. And whats ironic, is several cases, they have reference the work of Martin, without realizing that Martin does fairly low fat, high carb/high protein. And a large portion of his diet is starches and increase ice cream... daily.

    Haha, the really sad part about it is these people don't get exposure/credit because simply they are too focused on the work itself. These people talk about nutrition and exercise performance in bougie fitness/science vernacular which is understandably hard for the average dieter to tolerate let alone digest. The engineering departments hardly ever talk to the end users for that reason (I chuckle as I type because now I'm thinking about Tom getting interviewed by The Bobs in Office Space and he's screaming at them that the engineers are not good at dealing with customers!!!). I'm glad these guys get a fair shake on here, even if they aren't the most agreeable in format or even personality sometimes. It's quite a shame about Martin because his interpretation of IF is such a beautiful tool and has nothing to do with food selection, but let the spinsters spin. Maybe something good will come of it.

    Re-comp, is comp-licated (sorry, had to). it doesn't have to be. The more you start digging into the parameters of a recomp as outlined by Lyle and his peers, the more you'll find it to be a never ending black hole of ever-expanding parameters. Each tier of this black hole as you fall deeper becomes more ridiculous to the outsider looking in, but somehow more important to you, the fallen. At the bottom of the hole, you're looking up things in a medical textbook to validate a preformed notion about what recomp actually means. I see hallmarks of this when people start debating optimal BF% to start a recomp as if it were the single crucial factor. No mention of family/genetic history of obesity. Joint tolerances? NEAT levels? T levels? Where does it stop and how much does it matter.

    You can start your recomp program today, and learn along the way. We as a community can try to help you, but the learning process is strictly yours and you must take ownership of it.


    I've come across Lyle and Martin's sites quite some time ago, but I didn't take the time to read through much of their work because I was getting hit by information from a lot of blogs and sites at the time I first decided to work out consistently (way before I even thought about diet). Are there any posts or works in particular that are a good starting point? Or is it all textual gold?

    If you have the time (and patience) I highly recommend all of Lyle's books. I have read UD2.0, RFL, Flexible Dieting, Ketogenic Diet, BodyOpus experience and Bromocriptine and have learned a tonne about nutrition, physiology and more.

    I've been patiently waiting for his long anticipated Women's Book. But it sounds like it might be delayed a bit longer (ankle surgery).

    It will certainly be an eye opener for many.
  • annaskiskiannaskiski Member Posts: 1,212 Member Member Posts: 1,212 Member
    It will certainly be an eye opener for many.

    In what way?
  • tigerbluetigerblue Member Posts: 1,623 Member Member Posts: 1,623 Member
    I would love to hear comments regarding 3 days full body lifting program, vs. 3 days of working separate muscle groups (for instance, leg day, arm day, shoulder day). Both are lifting programs, and not circuit training with cardio intervals.

    The workouts are all similar in length (approx 45 minutes) and have progression planned by increasing weight. They also use similar lifts, it is just that one program mixes them up so that you are hitting full body three days a week, where on the other you are working each part one day a week for the entire session.

    Is there an advantage to one type of program over the other?
  • Idle_MoonIdle_Moon Member Posts: 151 Member Member Posts: 151 Member
    It's better to workout the same muscles 2x or more per week. If you just workout a muscle once a week, it wouldn't be enough.
    So 3x full body is better.
  • _benjammin_benjammin Member Posts: 1,224 Member Member Posts: 1,224 Member
    ^3 days full body has the advantage for strength and hypertrophy.
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