Do I need to eat some of my exercise calories or all 1200 of my calories
nickiphillips1
Posts: 114 Member
I am 201.5lbs and I need to lose 30 menopause lbs.
I am swimming competitively and have 1200 calories a day. I get an extra 1200 calories or so a day since I swim 60 - 90 minutes. I don't ever take all of those calories. Should I take some? I may take 100-300 extra calories those days. But should I try not too?
Here is what I eat during the day:
Breakfast (before swimming): fruit bar - 220 calories - 8 g protein - 33 g carbs
Snack (after swimming); smoothie - 310 calories - kale, fruit, p butter powder, tumeric, ginger, chia, flax seed, purple v8 (1/2 cup)
lunch: 1 cup quinoa, broccoli or veggie, pea protein and cashew milk or egg
dinner: 2-3 servings veggie and lean meat or fish
occasional snack: 2 cups whole grain popcorn
tons of water all day
maybe a cup of green tea
maybe a tbsp of olive oil
I am swimming competitively and have 1200 calories a day. I get an extra 1200 calories or so a day since I swim 60 - 90 minutes. I don't ever take all of those calories. Should I take some? I may take 100-300 extra calories those days. But should I try not too?
Here is what I eat during the day:
Breakfast (before swimming): fruit bar - 220 calories - 8 g protein - 33 g carbs
Snack (after swimming); smoothie - 310 calories - kale, fruit, p butter powder, tumeric, ginger, chia, flax seed, purple v8 (1/2 cup)
lunch: 1 cup quinoa, broccoli or veggie, pea protein and cashew milk or egg
dinner: 2-3 servings veggie and lean meat or fish
occasional snack: 2 cups whole grain popcorn
tons of water all day
maybe a cup of green tea
maybe a tbsp of olive oil
0
Replies
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As long as you are full and satisfied, I think I would avoid eating all of the extra calories. It seems like you are eating a good variety of fruits and veggies and protein. I would say you are on track to reach your weight loss goal and doing it in a healthy way!2
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MFP was designed for you to eat your exercise calories. That said, many have found their exercise calories to be overestimated. Eating 50-70% of them would be a good place to start. If after several weeks of logging you find that you're losing weight faster than expected, you can start eating more of your exercise calories back.
This excellent video by long time member SideSteel explains it much better than I can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67USKg3w_E4 6 -
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you are not burning 1200 calories in an hour.11
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When you're using the absolute most minimum calorie goal, which you are, I ALWAYS recommend to eat at least a portion of your exercise calories back. You need to give your body the fuel it needs to function properly.0
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800cal/hr for would be a very impressive output - how are you estimating that?
But yes you should eat a reasonable amount of your exercise calories.
Your rate of loss over a period of weeks is the best guide - simply adjust based on results.
Would question if 2lb a week is a good goal though, what's the rush?2 -
If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.0
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I put in my exercise in MFP and it gives me the calories back. It gives me 900 calories for 60 minutes for the intense swimming, which seems rather high. Then it gives me the rest of the calories for the 30 minutes of moderate to light swimming.
Thanks.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Just because you aren't hungry doesn't mean you don't need to fuel your body. Not meeting your calories and nutrients can lead to a higher rate of muscle loss, as well as a host of health concerns.6 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Just because you aren't hungry doesn't mean you don't need to fuel your body. Not meeting your calories and nutrients can lead to a higher rate of muscle loss, as well as a host of health concerns.
My doctor doesn't advise force feeding myself.0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Just because you aren't hungry doesn't mean you don't need to fuel your body. Not meeting your calories and nutrients can lead to a higher rate of muscle loss, as well as a host of health concerns.
My doctor doesn't advise force feeding myself.
There's a difference between eating more in volume, and eating more nutrient dense food to ensure adequate nutrition.17 -
mfp is known for overestimating calories burned. For a 200 lb person, swimming laps (not at race pace) for an hour burns maybe 600 calories.5
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I feel like a broken record posting this. This is a great post that explains 1200 calories and exercise.Wriiten by Faithful_chosen
Thanks, everyone, for the answers already
I am just going to add that MyFitnessPal calculates your projected loss (so, the amount you have set to lose a week) into the net goal you recieve. It assumes that if you want to eat more, you have to move more to stay in that deficit. Makes sense, right?
Now, especially newbies have a tendency to up the cardio and decrease the food to make a bigger deficit, assuming they will lose faster--and they might! I am not gonna sit here and say that you won't lose more. It's probably not going to show up on the scale due to water weight, but they will lose more. The question is: at what price? And what are they losing?
The MyFitnessPal method (built in deficit based on your numbers, especially plus purposeful exercise) is designed to steadily lose fat and preserving as much muscle as possible. You see, there is a (science proven) limit to how much fat a body can convert into usable energy during any period of time. If you go over that limit, it turns to muscle for fuel instead. You will always get a little bit of muscle tissue loss when eating at a deficit, but if you undereat and up the cardio (or even strength training!) like I see a lot of people on here do, you are forcing your body to canibalize its muscle tissue on top of the max level of fat it can burn. Not to mention that meeting your macro and micro nutrient goals with this method is virtually impossible, creating massive hormone imbalances (leptine, for example) and vitamins and mineral deficits.
The long term effects of crash dieting and deprivation dieting (which is basically what happens when you become one of the people who net in the low hundreds to negatives day after day for an extended period of time) can be really severe. Basically, you are systematically starving yourself, after all. The results tend to be this (one example, hypothetical you):
- your body burns fat, then muscle tissue to sustain itself. You become weaker and sore. You also start having cravings because your brain is sending out warning signs: 'I am starving! Feed me!'. So, you either binge and up your overall net a little, or you persevere and pat yourself on the back for a job well done! You wanted lots of fatty food, but you fed it a celery stick instead. Sadly, your whole timeline congratulates you on your willpower. You start to wonder, though, why your willpower is not being rewarded! The scale doesn't budge! You fail to realize it's because of water weight due to too much exercise and the body's inability to recover due to a lack of nurishment. The solution is often to eat even less and work out even more to get the scale to move.
- the body is further unable to sustain. It changed the body's chemistry to preserve all it can--after all, it needs to protect vital organs from becoming affected and keep you going so you can hunt and gather for food! At this stage, the body becomes its own worst enemy: it no longer tells you you are starving so you can make a last ditch effort to get food. You think you are fine on 1000 calories a day, burning 1200, because your body shows no signs of hunger anymore, but basically, the little neutrients you are providing your body with get sucked towards your vital organs, leaving nothing for the rest. You become more tired, and cranky, and your muscles no longer recover from all the stress you put them through working out. As a result, they break down even faster and hold on to even more water to prevent that breakdown from affecting your ability to throw a spear at a prey animal (hey, I can't help it your body still thinks we are living in caves!). The scale drops oh so slowly--if at all--but meanwhile you do see you are slimming down! Your measurements are less! MyFitnessPal celebrates! 'Hurray! The weight must come off in a 'woosh' soon now! Keep doing what you are doing!'. Note that (thankfully) many people drop out at this stage. The psychological burden becomes too great, they feel *kitten*, and life isn't fun anymore. They stop dieting, start binging, and gain even more weight. The jojo'ing has begun.
- you keep doing what you were doing. We are a few months in now. You develop headaches, fatigue, and you start finding more and more hair on your pillow in the morning. In fact, you start finding hair everywhere. You also get hungry again, not in a way that makes you binge but a sort of steady nagging: a gentle reminder that time is running out. Fail to meet it (MyFitnessPal people pat your back when you tell them you went to bed early instead of having more food) and slowly, your body gives up its protective hold on more systems. You can survive without full function to certain organs, so your body throws them to the wolves: nutrients go towards your brain, heart, and lungs. Pretty much all other organs start running at half capacity. You hold on to more toxins, which start chipping away at your system, and your ability to process food (get nutrients out of them) suffers greatly, so you are truly starving now. This is the point where the weight starts coming off, and pretty quickly, too, usually. A big whoosh! (MyFitnessPal people cheer in the distance). What you are really seeing is your body giving up on protecting muscle tissue completely: the water weight falls away, showing you that you actually did lose a lot of fat and muscle tissue. More cheering! It must be working! Keep at it! Work harder! Eat less!
- now you are in serious *kitten*! Your organs are not keeping up, your muscles are breaking down, and the body has to start looking elsewhere for fuel: your organs and the more vital muscles, including your heart. At this point, your nails will become brittle and start falling out. Your hair falls out. Your period stops. You experience bouts of nausea and muscle weakness. You might find yourself pulling into a run and suddenly blacking out. You still function, but on the inside you are shutting down.
From here on out, it all depends on if you start eating again and stop exercising or not. If you don't, you can end up killing yourself. If you do, it is a long road to recovery, sometimes lasting years and it sometimes includes permanent damage to the function of certain organs, especially the liver and kidneys. Worst of all, this entire crash diet hasn't taught you how to sustain weight loss, so as soon as you crash and burn, the weight flies back on! And trust me, it takes a fraction of the time it took to lose it to gain it back.
I am not saying this to frighten you (well, I am a little), but as a nurse, you should be aware of the ramifications of crash dieting. Those of us that do realize the effects therefor recommend you lose weight slowly, at a sustainable rate that gives you the best ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss. Stick to your MyFitnessPal calculated net, take the time, eat back your true exercise calories (which is probably 50 to 75 percent of your machine or database given calories), and learn how to eat (and what to eat) for weight loss you can maintain for years to come. It might not go as fast, but you will be able to see it on the scale, and best of all, it will be safe. That is my very long winded answer to 'why' you should eat back exercise calories.17 -
nickiphillips1 wrote: »I put in my exercise in MFP and it gives me the calories back. It gives me 900 calories for 60 minutes for the intense swimming, which seems rather high. Then it gives me the rest of the calories for the 30 minutes of moderate to light swimming.
Thanks.
That sounds like a massive over estimate.
Yes you should eat reasonable exercise calories but take entries in the database that rely on perception of effort rather than measurable data (distance, speed...) with a pinch of salt.1 -
Thank you Faithful_Chosen. I like your explanation. I have made this change as a lifelong change in my diet, not a "diet" to lose weight for a short period of time.
Because of my MS, I am eating foods that reduce inflammation and flare-ups. I would rather eat healthy than take more meds. I would love to get off of some of my migraine medication as well (quinoa is great for migraines).
I have waited two years trying to lose weight and to no avail.
I used to be a highly competitive lake swimmer and go to nationals for swimming. I want to do that again and I realize that is only going to take time.
Although, I wish the weight would just drop away, I understand that that is not the healthy way to do it.
I am constantly thirsty (my meds give me dry mouth). I drink tons of water and know my weight fluctuates throughout the day from water weight.
I will add back 50% of the exercise calories it gives me with a balance of carbs and protein and fat.
Thank you all.
BTW, I have noticed some improvement with my swimming as well. That is a long road...3 -
I agree re the overestimation. I swim 60+ minutes a day at a fast speed and only get 500 calories back. Which I then eat. Nom.1
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Not being hungry is not the same thing as getting adequate nutrition though. That "arbitrary" number (1200) is based on nutritional minimums.....if you want to fuel your basic body function with existing lean muscle mass it's your choice.
I want to lower my overall body fat %.....but that's me.4 -
nickiphillips1 wrote: »Thank you Faithful_Chosen. I like your explanation. I have made this change as a lifelong change in my diet, not a "diet" to lose weight for a short period of time.
Because of my MS, I am eating foods that reduce inflammation and flare-ups. I would rather eat healthy than take more meds. I would love to get off of some of my migraine medication as well (quinoa is great for migraines).
I have waited two years trying to lose weight and to no avail.
I used to be a highly competitive lake swimmer and go to nationals for swimming. I want to do that again and I realize that is only going to take time.
Although, I wish the weight would just drop away, I understand that that is not the healthy way to do it.
I am constantly thirsty (my meds give me dry mouth). I drink tons of water and know my weight fluctuates throughout the day from water weight.
I will add back 50% of the exercise calories it gives me with a balance of carbs and protein and fat.
Thank you all.
BTW, I have noticed some improvement with my swimming as well. That is a long road...nickiphillips1 wrote: »I put in my exercise in MFP and it gives me the calories back. It gives me 900 calories for 60 minutes for the intense swimming, which seems rather high. Then it gives me the rest of the calories for the 30 minutes of moderate to light swimming.
Thanks.
I want to highlight I used to be a highly competitive lake swimmer and go to nationals for swimming for the people who are questioning your calorie burn.
We are of a similar weight and I get 630 calories an hour for Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort. Your 1200 calorie burn for 60 minutes of intense plus 30 minutes of moderate swimming does not seem out of the realm of possibility to me.
I only lake swim, and am limited to the summer. I eat 100% of my calories back. This does not impede my weight loss.
Definitely eat at least 50% of your swimming calories back.2 -
GrumpyHeadmistress wrote: »I agree re the overestimation. I swim 60+ minutes a day at a fast speed and only get 500 calories back. Which I then eat. Nom.
What's your weight and height?0 -
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kshama2001 wrote: »
still not 12001 -
Arguably the better a swimmer is, the lower the burn as they're more efficient than the average Joe.2
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Just because you aren't hungry doesn't mean you don't need to fuel your body. Not meeting your calories and nutrients can lead to a higher rate of muscle loss, as well as a host of health concerns.
My doctor doesn't advise force feeding myself.
This is the second thread I've seen you describing what I consider "eating sufficient calories to fuel activity levels and within a moderate calorie deficit for long term, sustainable weight loss" as "force feeding" or "shoving food in my cake hole".
It seems like you may have some prior struggles with disordered eating - is that an accurate assessment? You have a very negative outlook toward food and the recommendation to eat back exercise calories. As I mentioned in another thread, no one is suggesting someone force themselves to eat to the point of discomfort - however, if a person finds themselves consistently under a calorie target including the exercise burns, and that person is an active person, they may want to look at the overall composition of their diet and try to incorporate some more calorie dense foods to help offset that big deficit. That is not a recommendation to shove junk food in one's mouth, as I'm sure you will misinterpret in my words. It is simply a comment that if someone finds themselves consistently under (or consistently over) a target - then it would be prudent to look at the targets themselves, the foods that are being eaten, and make sure that everything is aligned to the long term goal.15 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
We are of a similar weight and I get 630 calories an hour for Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort. Your 1200 calorie burn for 60 minutes of intense plus 30 minutes of moderate swimming does not seem out of the realm of possibility to me.
I only lake swim, and am limited to the summer. I eat 100% of my calories back. This does not impede my weight loss.
Definitely eat at least 50% of your swimming calories back.kshama2001 wrote: »
Intensity is relative.
But--she can either eat back 50% of the inflated value, or make the value a little bit more reasonable and eat back 100%--both are a means to the same end.0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »If I'm not hungry, I don't eat more. Doesn't matter if it's exercise calories or not, i don't feel an obligation to eat when not hungry just to meet an arbitrary number.
Just because you aren't hungry doesn't mean you don't need to fuel your body. Not meeting your calories and nutrients can lead to a higher rate of muscle loss, as well as a host of health concerns.
My doctor doesn't advise force feeding myself.
How many calories are you short? A tablespoon of peanut butter has 100 calories. An ounce of pecans has almost 200 calories. 200 calories of kale might require force feeding, but 200 calories of nuts sure doesn't.
Look, many of us need to lose weight because our hunger cues were off, which caused us to eat when we weren't hungry. This also goes the other way - we can be undereating and not feeling hungry.
If your weight loss is too fast for the amount of weight you have to lose, then you should eat more, hungry or not.7 -
nickiphillips1 wrote: »I am 201.5lbs and I need to lose 30 menopause lbs.
I am swimming competitively and have 1200 calories a day. I get an extra 1200 calories or so a day since I swim 60 - 90 minutes. I don't ever take all of those calories. Should I take some? I may take 100-300 extra calories those days. But should I try not too?
Here is what I eat during the day:
Breakfast (before swimming): fruit bar - 220 calories - 8 g protein - 33 g carbs
Snack (after swimming); smoothie - 310 calories - kale, fruit, p butter powder, tumeric, ginger, chia, flax seed, purple v8 (1/2 cup)
lunch: 1 cup quinoa, broccoli or veggie, pea protein and cashew milk or egg
dinner: 2-3 servings veggie and lean meat or fish
occasional snack: 2 cups whole grain popcorn
tons of water all day
maybe a cup of green tea
maybe a tbsp of olive oil
Try eating back 1/2 of your exercise calories for 4 weeks and see how much you have lost. If you are on target, keep doing it. I am a swimmer (leisurely, not competitive) and I eat back 75% of all exercise calories from both swimming and walking which works perfectly for me.
Days where I am full and I still have calories to eat are the days I add more fat to something I am preparing or I treat myself to a glass of wine (200 calories for a 250 ml glass of red).
1 -
nickiphillips1 wrote: »Thank you Faithful_Chosen. I like your explanation. I have made this change as a lifelong change in my diet, not a "diet" to lose weight for a short period of time.
Because of my MS, I am eating foods that reduce inflammation and flare-ups. I would rather eat healthy than take more meds. I would love to get off of some of my migraine medication as well (quinoa is great for migraines).
I have waited two years trying to lose weight and to no avail.
I used to be a highly competitive lake swimmer and go to nationals for swimming. I want to do that again and I realize that is only going to take time.
Although, I wish the weight would just drop away, I understand that that is not the healthy way to do it.
I am constantly thirsty (my meds give me dry mouth). I drink tons of water and know my weight fluctuates throughout the day from water weight.
I will add back 50% of the exercise calories it gives me with a balance of carbs and protein and fat.
Thank you all.
BTW, I have noticed some improvement with my swimming as well. That is a long road...
Particularly with MS, you shouldn't be underfueling. It's clear to me that you're already on an aggressive deficit (are you trying to lose 2 pounds a week)?
I'm glad you are going to eat more, and would suggest that you consider, if you are indeed eating at a rate that has you losing 2 pounds a week, to slow it down to a pound a week.
You have stated that you only want to lose 30 pounds. 2 pounds a week is more appropriate for people with larger amounts of weight to lose, and since you are looking to make a sustainable change, losing more slowly would be more in line with your goals.3 -
you are not burning 1200 calories in an hour.
I wouldn't be so sure. I couldn't burn 1200 calories in an hour swimming, but I'm not a competitive swimmer. To give an impression, Michael Phelps famously eats 12,500 calories a day to maintain his weight while training. Just for the sake of argument, supposing him to have a sedentary burn of 3000cal, that would mean he is burning around 9,500cal in a day's training. Full intensity competitive swimming burns a lot of calories, far more than that burned by an ordinary muppet like me, even if I give it my best.
My opinion is that OP is eating far too little to support her training and will be compromising the muscle development she needs to do well in her sport by trying to subsist on what, for me as an average size woman at the top of the "overweight" category, would be a sedentary deficit of 750 calories. OP, you need to look at ways of eating more other than "force feeding" yourself. It rarely comes down to that, it's a question of including more calorie dense foods, such as fat and carbs.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »It seems like you may have some prior struggles with disordered eating - is that an accurate assessment?
It is not accurate at all.
As a kid I got a fairly typical refrain of "Clean your plate" from my mother, but that's hardly an eating disorder.You have a very negative outlook toward food and the recommendation to eat back exercise calories. As I mentioned in another thread, no one is suggesting someone force themselves to eat to the point of discomfort - however, if a person finds themselves consistently under a calorie target including the exercise burns, and that person is an active person, they may want to look at the overall composition of their diet and try to incorporate some more calorie dense foods to help offset that big deficit.
And if my performance is where I want it (which it is), and I'm not hungry, I don't eat for the sake of meeting an intake number alone. If I'm hungry, I eat more. If not, I don't. There are days I have a surplus, even. Race day celebration beers, the occasional barbecue or party. So I don't worry about hitting the line every day because on the longer timeline I will even out. Athletic performance is a big deal for me. I'm forever chasing a new PR or increasing the distance I run. That wouldn't happen if I were starving.That is not a recommendation to shove junk food in one's mouth, as I'm sure you will misinterpret in my words. It is simply a comment that if someone finds themselves consistently under (or consistently over) a target - then it would be prudent to look at the targets themselves, the foods that are being eaten, and make sure that everything is aligned to the long term goal.
You did suggest that because I don't have a daily calorie minimum that I must meet every single day that I'm deprived by referencing Girl Scout cookies, no? All I have to say about that is that it's not deprivation to not have something that you don't actually want.0
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