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CICO is not the whole equation
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Tacklewasher wrote: »But it's not part of what I consider my "weight".
Then I didn't miss the point, I disagreed - just in a roundabout fashion while making other vague points along the way. I'm absolutely of the opinion it matters whether it varies or not - like I said, being consistently off is very nearly as good as being right. Being aware of exactly what portion is clothing is very encouraging even if I only report curb weight (clothed) to MFP.
No. You missed the point leading up to the comment you quoted. The conversation was focused on the impact of a high sodium day causing water retention leading to an increase in the scale reading, and how it was not indicative of fat gain and does not negate CICO. The example was given that you don't consider your clothes as part of your weight, so why consider the extra water retention. It's like saying the fact that I weighed today wearing my winter coat means I'm fatter than I was yesterday when I weighed naked. Go back a page or two to see what the discussion was about. It was not about wearing the same clothes daily when you weigh.
My today is a perfect example of what was being discussed. Scale reading is high and will take a couple of days to fix. But that does not mean I'm not losing fat, I did not gain 5 lbs of fat, CICO has not been violated and it will all work out in the end. Really. I expect it to all come out the end. Hoping soon. Could really use a good poop.9 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »But it's not part of what I consider my "weight".
Then I didn't miss the point, I disagreed - just in a roundabout fashion while making other vague points along the way. I'm absolutely of the opinion it matters whether it varies or not - like I said, being consistently off is very nearly as good as being right. Being aware of exactly what portion is clothing is very encouraging even if I only report curb weight (clothed) to MFP.
No. You missed the point leading up to the comment you quoted. The conversation was focused on the impact of a high sodium day causing water retention leading to an increase in the scale reading, and how it was not indicative of fat gain and does not negate CICO. The example was given that you don't consider your clothes as part of your weight, so why consider the extra water retention. It's like saying the fact that I weighed today wearing my winter coat means I'm fatter than I was yesterday when I weighed naked. Go back a page or two to see what the discussion was about. It was not about wearing the same clothes daily when you weigh.
My today is a perfect example of what was being discussed. Scale reading is high and will take a couple of days to fix. But that does not mean I'm not losing fat, I did not gain 5 lbs of fat, CICO has not been violated and it will all work out in the end. Really. I expect it to all come out the end. Hoping soon. Could really use a good poop.
I agree with you. My weight will fluctuate by 1-3lbs in a single day so I don't consider that I've actually lost or gained weight until I'm in the +/- 5lbs range.0 -
I spent a good while reading all the new posts. Really interesting. But I'm a bit sad the person talking about the big food company seems to be gone.0
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KatzeDerNacht22 wrote: »I spent a good while reading all the new posts. Really interesting. But I'm a bit sad the person talking about the big food company seems to be gone.
Here is something to keep you occupied until they return:
http://www.conspiracymadlibz.com/they-will-ban-something
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KatzeDerNacht22 wrote: »I spent a good while reading all the new posts. Really interesting. But I'm a bit sad the person talking about the big food company seems to be gone.
Here is something to keep you occupied until they return:
http://www.conspiracymadlibz.com/they-will-ban-something
Omg awesome!! XD thank you so much
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Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
A 5'5" woman is obese at 180 pounds (total body weight) or above. When I weighed that much, I was getting at least an hour of vigorous exercise most days. Presumably this means that 364 other obese women were not doing their fair share (365 in leap years!)?
Normal body weight's top end (for 5'5" again) is 149 pounds. At my height, obese is 31 pounds above normal, not 130 pounds above.
I suspect the average non-obese person gets surprisingly little exercise, too.0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
Where on earth did that come from? Please cite your source, this makes no sense whatsoever.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
Where on earth did that come from? Please cite your source, this makes no sense whatsoever.
The hyperlink is to their source I believe.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
Where on earth did that come from? Please cite your source, this makes no sense whatsoever.
The hyperlink is to their source I believe.
Thanks, I saw that later but it was too late to edit. From the article
"One expert did note that the definition of vigorous exercise was very limited in the study, and the researchers themselves acknowledged that the device used to track physical activity did not measure swimming or biking very well."
This right here makes the study useless in my mind. Swimming is often the go-to activity for obese/overweight people.4 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
A 5'5" woman is obese at 180 pounds (total body weight) or above. When I weighed that much, I was getting at least an hour of vigorous exercise most days. Presumably this means that 364 other obese women were not doing their fair share (365 in leap years!)?
Normal body weight's top end (for 5'5" again) is 149 pounds. At my height, obese is 31 pounds above normal, not 130 pounds above.
I suspect the average non-obese person gets surprisingly little exercise, too.
The person I quoted referred to having lost 130 lbs. if you go back to his post, you'll see it.heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
Where on earth did that come from? Please cite your source, this makes no sense whatsoever.
I linked it for a reason.heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
Where on earth did that come from? Please cite your source, this makes no sense whatsoever.
The hyperlink is to their source I believe.
Thanks, I saw that later but it was too late to edit. From the article
"One expert did note that the definition of vigorous exercise was very limited in the study, and the researchers themselves acknowledged that the device used to track physical activity did not measure swimming or biking very well."
This right here makes the study useless in my mind. Swimming is often the go-to activity for obese/overweight people.
It provides some opposition to @Russellb97 claiming that obese people exercise more than those who are normal weight.1 -
In case it was never pointed out in the long chain of sodium related posts: there is another subset of people that said weight does matter to, as I'm sure even @ninerbuff will agree: athletes in sports with weight classes.
We can argue all day that water retention isn't "true weight gain", but tell that to a guy who gets his *kitten* handed to him in the 181 class, because his beef jerky intake pushed him out of the 165. Not many calories, affects nothing in the long term, but his competitiveness is now wrecked on meet/fight day, because of nothing more than salt and water.
Granted, most who compete will have that in check, but definitely not all.2 -
Right, I was very healthy already with 40 lbs more at 175 lbs. never lost that much weight for health reasons. Wanted to look better. Of course if you are 50 plus lbs overweight....different story.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »In case it was never pointed out in the long chain of sodium related posts: there is another subset of people that said weight does matter to, as I'm sure even @ninerbuff will agree: athletes in sports with weight classes.
We can argue all day that water retention isn't "true weight gain", but tell that to a guy who gets his *kitten* handed to him in the 181 class, because his beef jerky intake pushed him out of the 165. Not many calories, affects nothing in the long term, but his competitiveness is now wrecked on meet/fight day, because of nothing more than salt and water.
Granted, most who compete will have that in check, but definitely not all.
While competing comes with specific requirements, we still know it doesn't disprove CICO. It just means you need to manipulate water. Which is why prior to a big event, if you want to cut weight quick, you go keto.. you may feel like crap, but you will deplete glycogen and manipulate water.2 -
Agree. It's sad that athlete's in weight classes are weighed a couple of days before a bout, then magically gain 15lbs. IMO, weigh just before stepping in the ring. If a contestant isn't within the weight range (say 1-2 over the limit), then still fight, but they don't get the win if even if they do.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »In case it was never pointed out in the long chain of sodium related posts: there is another subset of people that said weight does matter to, as I'm sure even @ninerbuff will agree: athletes in sports with weight classes.
We can argue all day that water retention isn't "true weight gain", but tell that to a guy who gets his *kitten* handed to him in the 181 class, because his beef jerky intake pushed him out of the 165. Not many calories, affects nothing in the long term, but his competitiveness is now wrecked on meet/fight day, because of nothing more than salt and water.
Granted, most who compete will have that in check, but definitely not all.
When I competed, we used to weigh just before stepping on stage so there was no distinct advantage. Whatever you weighed was the class you competed in.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Agree. It's sad that athlete's in weight classes are weighed a couple of days before a bout, then magically gain 15lbs. IMO, weigh just before stepping in the ring. If a contestant isn't within the weight range (say 1-2 over the limit), then still fight, but they don't get the win if even if they do.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »In case it was never pointed out in the long chain of sodium related posts: there is another subset of people that said weight does matter to, as I'm sure even @ninerbuff will agree: athletes in sports with weight classes.
We can argue all day that water retention isn't "true weight gain", but tell that to a guy who gets his *kitten* handed to him in the 181 class, because his beef jerky intake pushed him out of the 165. Not many calories, affects nothing in the long term, but his competitiveness is now wrecked on meet/fight day, because of nothing more than salt and water.
Granted, most who compete will have that in check, but definitely not all.
When I competed, we used to weigh just before stepping on stage so there was no distinct advantage. Whatever you weighed was the class you competed in.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is why I actually plan on cutting to at least five pounds below my class ceiling before my meet in December. It's not that day before weigh-ins bother me, but with it being my first meet, I'll have enough to worry about without manipulating electrolytes and food too hard.
Five pounds should give me plenty of buffer to be able to fuel for performance, and still come in a bit light. I'm expecting an asskicking anyway.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
A 5'5" woman is obese at 180 pounds (total body weight) or above. When I weighed that much, I was getting at least an hour of vigorous exercise most days. Presumably this means that 364 other obese women were not doing their fair share (365 in leap years!)?
Normal body weight's top end (for 5'5" again) is 149 pounds. At my height, obese is 31 pounds above normal, not 130 pounds above.
I suspect the average non-obese person gets surprisingly little exercise, too.
Do you think selecting the absolute lowest 'obese' weight for a 5'5" girl is representative, an honest discussion of the issue? I'd expect researchers would look at women between 180-300+ lbs.0 -
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
The average obese woman gets one hour of exercise per year.
Someone 130 pounds above the top end of the normal weight range is obese.
A 5'5" woman is obese at 180 pounds (total body weight) or above. When I weighed that much, I was getting at least an hour of vigorous exercise most days. Presumably this means that 364 other obese women were not doing their fair share (365 in leap years!)?
Normal body weight's top end (for 5'5" again) is 149 pounds. At my height, obese is 31 pounds above normal, not 130 pounds above.
I suspect the average non-obese person gets surprisingly little exercise, too.
Do you think selecting the absolute lowest 'obese' weight for a 5'5" girl is representative, an honest discussion of the issue? I'd expect researchers would look at women between 180-300+ lbs.
I'd expect researchers to look at a range, absolutely. For 5'5", that would be 180 and up.
What I'm doing in my post is commenting from an n=1. I weighed 183 when I started, and now weigh in the 120s. I used the 5'5" example weights because I'm 5'5".
Part of my remark is joking ("364 other women . . ").
Part is sincere, 3 main points:- "Obese" and "overweight" definitions are at weight levels that surprise many people by how low they are;
- Some obese people are active (including some substantially heavier than I was), though it's obviously unusual; and
- My personal experience with people around me suggests that the average person of any weight probably gets very little exercise, leading a life somewhat similar to those described in the link as characterizing obese people (lots of TV and gaming or other sedentary activities after a sedentary job - even the researcher quoted says "I think they're living the typical life.").
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Part is sincere, 3 main points:
- "Obese" and "overweight" definitions are at weight levels that surprise many people by how low they are;
- Some obese people are active (including some substantially heavier than I was), though it's obviously unusual; and
- My personal experience with people around me suggests that the average person of any weight probably gets very little exercise, leading a life somewhat similar to those described in the link as characterizing obese people (lots of TV and gaming or other sedentary activities after a sedentary job - even the researcher quoted says "I think they're living the typical life.").
Those weights are not that low, for one. And the other is that your experience with people around you is not a representative sample of the general population precisely because it is a non-random self-selected sample of people who generally have the same type of lifestyle.0
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