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Adrenal Fatigue?

snickerscharlie
snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
in Debate Club
I've been hearing about this more and more on social media as well as here on MFP.

Apparently, if you're suffering from an entire range of symptoms that are also very common to other ailments, you could be afflicted with 'Adrenal Fatigue.'

Curious as to people's understanding and experience with this syndrome, and whether you think it's genuine or bogus.

I'm currently on the bogus side, but am open-minded, even though the latest scientific study on this does not support Adrenal Fatigue as being a medically diagnosable/recognized ailment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

:)



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Replies

  • astrampe
    astrampe Posts: 2,169 Member
    Why does it matter what you think? Facts win - opinions are common.....
  • astrampe
    astrampe Posts: 2,169 Member
    Because no matter how long you debate - facts still win....
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    There was a post about this in General recently. And i'm on the quackery side of the debate.
  • CorneliusPhoton
    CorneliusPhoton Posts: 965 Member
    I don't believe that it is a 'hoax' in the sense of malicious deception, but rather an effort to categorize a set of symptoms that might be the result of chronic stress or some other chronic yet subclinical issue (also a stress (adrenal, thyroid, food intolerances, infection, and inflammation; maybe even vitamin deficiency or nutrient malabsorption)). Perhaps "adrenal" was a presumptuous word to choose. There are several diseases that start messing with you before they become detectable... could it be something like a subclinical form of addisons? We all accept that depression exists, and symptoms of AF seem to be similar. From what I have seen, the treatments for AF include many of the same treatments suggested for depression: Get adequate sleep, manage your stress, exercise, mindfulness, social connections, nutrition and keeping your blood sugar stable. Maybe it's just depression.
  • RuNaRoUnDaFiEld
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld Posts: 5,864 Member
    edited March 2017
    It's one of those current illnesses being self diagnosed via the internet.

    I'm on the hoax side as well, not read a single person who has had their glands actually tested.

    It's taken over from candida.
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
    edited March 2017
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    astrampe wrote: »
    Why does it matter what you think? Facts win - opinions are common.....

    Much of science started with a thought...an opinion...even a debate.

    Also...

    What at one time what we thought were facts have since been proven to be different.

    For example...

    At one time we thought that it was "fact" that a low fat diet was optimal. We now know that to not always be the case.

    "Facts" change as we learn new information. I dare say that most of that new information started with debates among scientists and researchers.

    This ^^^ It wasn't that long ago that the now-dunked "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" 'wisdom' was a widely-held belief.
    CorneliusPhoton wrote: »
    I don't believe that it is a 'hoax' in the sense of malicious deception, but rather an effort to categorize a set of symptoms that might be the result of chronic stress or some other chronic yet subclinical issue (also a stress (adrenal, thyroid, food intolerances, infection, and inflammation; maybe even vitamin deficiency or nutrient malabsorption)). Perhaps "adrenal" was a presumptuous word to choose. There are several diseases that start messing with you before they become detectable... could it be something like a subclinical form of addisons? We all accept that depression exists, and symptoms of AF seem to be similar. From what I have seen, the treatments for AF include many of the same treatments suggested for depression: Get adequate sleep, manage your stress, exercise, mindfulness, social connections, nutrition and keeping your blood sugar stable. Maybe it's just depression.

    Good point.

    The issue I have with the Adrenal Fatigue symptoms is that I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people who *don't* exhibit one or more of them as a pretty normal side effect of adult life. That these folks are being encouraged to pay for 'lab tests' to 'confirm the diagnosis' as well as having all kinds of 'cure' books foisted on them, is where I think a line is being crossed. Exploiting an unproven medical condition for personal monetary gain is just a modern day twist to the snake oil salesmen of old, imo.

    Two links (of many!) to that point:

    https://adrenalfatiguesolution.com/recovery-from-adrenal-fatigue/

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/14/adrenal-testing.aspx
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    The more I read about it the more I recognize elements of the old "humours" idea of health debunked about one hundred fifty years ago.

    Granted, leeches and maggots are making a comeback as viable treatments for very specific cases, but the miasma theory of illness really needs to stay in the past.
  • CorneliusPhoton
    CorneliusPhoton Posts: 965 Member
    hpacaro wrote: »
    I can speak from experience. I spent several years convinced something was wrong with me after going to multiple doctors and having everything checked out perfectly (on paper, I was the picture of health in every way)... yet, I could barely keep my head up in the afternoons I was so fatigued, I was physically and emotionally exhausted every night but unable to sleep, every time I would exercise, I would puff up for several days. I've never had depression in my life and yet, I could barely make myself get up in the morning and put one foot in front of the other. I've always managed my weight and have had a relatively actively lifestyle, carried a stressful corporate job for 18 years and have 2 very active and sporty kids. The doctors explanation was "You're 40, this is life". I call B.S. on that excuse and since I started managing the symptoms and taking the supplements my chiropractor had recommended, I rarely have issues unless I push myself too far (which is likely still an extreme to how the average person operates on a daily basis). I now teach group fitness and can easily teach 2-3 relatively intense classes in a day without issue. None of my blood tests have changed despite how much better I feel and my doctor (new Functional Med Doc, not one who told me I was just old) has outright told me that while Adrenal Fatigue isn't recognized by Western Medicine, she does believe there is truth to it. For me, I don't think it was simply depression as that was the symptom I felt the least. The wired and tired from cortisol being "off" was the worst causing an inability to get to sleep at night then being so fatigued in the AM you couldn't move. You could say it was caffeine (it's typically the drug of choice for people in this situation) but I forced myself to quit early on in hopes it would help... and it may have improved slightly but did not resolve the overall issue. So you can debate the name and recognition (I don't really care what you call it to be honest!), but I can't debate the symptoms I experienced and the progress I've made in getting my life back.

    The bolded, exactly, is me with depression. It is not just feeling sad.
    But I am very glad that you have found something that has helped.
    Are you taking ashwagandha? I took it for awhile and *think* it helped, but there really was no way to measure it. I rely 100% on lifestyle changes now.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    hpacaro wrote: »
    I can speak from experience. I spent several years convinced something was wrong with me after going to multiple doctors and having everything checked out perfectly (on paper, I was the picture of health in every way)... yet, I could barely keep my head up in the afternoons I was so fatigued, I was physically and emotionally exhausted every night but unable to sleep, every time I would exercise, I would puff up for several days. I've never had depression in my life and yet, I could barely make myself get up in the morning and put one foot in front of the other. I've always managed my weight and have had a relatively actively lifestyle, carried a stressful corporate job for 18 years and have 2 very active and sporty kids. The doctors explanation was "You're 40, this is life". I call B.S. on that excuse and since I started managing the symptoms and taking the supplements my chiropractor had recommended, I rarely have issues unless I push myself too far (which is likely still an extreme to how the average person operates on a daily basis). I now teach group fitness and can easily teach 2-3 relatively intense classes in a day without issue. None of my blood tests have changed despite how much better I feel and my doctor (new Functional Med Doc, not one who told me I was just old) has outright told me that while Adrenal Fatigue isn't recognized by Western Medicine, she does believe there is truth to it. For me, I don't think it was simply depression as that was the symptom I felt the least. The wired and tired from cortisol being "off" was the worst causing an inability to get to sleep at night then being so fatigued in the AM you couldn't move. You could say it was caffeine (it's typically the drug of choice for people in this situation) but I forced myself to quit early on in hopes it would help... and it may have improved slightly but did not resolve the overall issue. So you can debate the name and recognition (I don't really care what you call it to be honest!), but I can't debate the symptoms I experienced and the progress I've made in getting my life back.

    Out of interest, what supplements were recommended?
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    It's the kind of nebulous complaints that we used to get from fibromyalgia patients when phycians were still trying to determine if it was a physical or psychological problem, or perhaps symptoms of a different disease entirely.

    Obviously fibromyalgia turned out to be real, but many of the patients that thought they had it, didn't. In a funny twist, there were a number of patients that had been diagnosed with atypical lupus that actually had fibromyalgia.

    That said, I'm pretty certain adrenal fatigue is either a load or misdiagnosis of other actual syndromes. Transcriptomics is very capable of detecting the existence of a syndrome like this is supposed to be. Where is the study? All it would take is a blood draw from a good number of supposed affecteds, run microarray or RNAseq and compare expression patterns to healthy. If it is a thing, there should be a detectable difference with some consistency in the affecteds given an allowance for misdiagnosis. That would be enough of a pilot test to warrant further study. But it doesnt exist, which makes me think no one with any kind of legitimacy sees any merit in it.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    ...The issue I have with the Adrenal Fatigue symptoms is that I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people who *don't* exhibit one or more of them as a pretty normal side effect of adult life. That these folks are being encouraged to pay for 'lab tests' to 'confirm the diagnosis' as well as having all kinds of 'cure' books foisted on them, is where I think a line is being crossed. Exploiting an unproven medical condition for personal monetary gain is just a modern day twist to the snake oil salesmen of old, imo.

    Two links (of many!) to that point:

    https://adrenalfatiguesolution.com/recovery-from-adrenal-fatigue/

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/14/adrenal-testing.aspx

    Exactly. These imaginary diseases are like horoscopes - make the terms around them as broad/general as possible and they're bound to be true for many people, and people who want to believe will believe.

    I think that's the key.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    edited March 2017
    Obviously this thread will run and run on distinct lines, those of us who have no/never had health issues and those on the other side who know they have been failed by general western medicine on the other. AF feeds into the Hypothyroid debate because it is part of the same feed back cycle including the pituitary gland, they both can drag the thyroid down if not treated properly, endocrinologists are supposed to ensure there are no issues but they don't. As long as our darling doctors refuse to measure our available t3, and thyroid antibodies, for Graves or Hashimoto' this will always be declared unsubstantiated. I believe this negativity s underpinned by the outcry of "hysteria" which was directed at women in the past because the male dominated medical profession did not and still do not recognise the different needs of and demands made on the bodies of the male and the female and need for t3 as well as a nutritious diet.

    Before the official testing system was set in place there was one simple answer, Natural Desiccated Thyroid in all unexplained circumstances of ....(any of the 300 possible symptoms which gravitate to the poor health of primarily women. Today the tsh test, has been usurped by the medical profession, even the person who's name I forget, was known to have wished he had not provided the world with this test because it is not being used properly. STTM the American thyroid support site says of the "Numbers game", which all our specimens are held up to is unreliable because the status of the patients who's blood was tested in the initial research were not asked, 1. if they had a thyroid problem or 2.if a relative had a diagnosis: so this is not reflected in the pattern of expectations to which we are supposed to conform; then add that women are 10 times more likely to be compromised by these symptoms than a man so it is responsible for the lives of predominantly women being victimised as charlatans because of the lack of understanding.

    Society is also to blame expecting women to look like stick insects (mo), demanding they eat like emaciated beings and tells them not to worry about the value of their nutrition, to Western Medics and Fashion gurus it matters not that the girl/woman before them is not receiving the nutrients, at least the 150 microns of iodine daily and other minerals and vitamins to enable her system to achieve all the demands this modern "caring" society requires.

    To me, as one of the "in the know" persons, my husband is a believer too, he has seen me grow from the diminished, difficult to live with person I'd become following the old western medicinal rules, in constant pain and totally miserable, to someone who will tame the world, without the help of the people to whom I was supposed to show due deference. Our general health system closes the door to health to so many women causing them to leave the workforce because the persons to whom we turn will not keep up with the latest science, indicating the detrimental effects of antibiotic over use, poor diet. Look to the advice given by Functional Medicine who are helping many of us live a longer healthier lives once we have turned the tanker round. I've more going form me now than I had over 38 years ago, you only have my word for that so.... It was not my age, me being lazy or any other derogatory term used towards me over those years. It was having to follow the very worst advice going, in WGM.

    Nay Sayers, please fell free to continue but allow us who know better to get on with our regained full and active lives before its too late which it would be if I still trusted my designated doctors.

    ETA.

    I'm confident to set a challenge to anyone who has poor health, at least gives this a go. Look into Functional Medicine. You have nothing to loose but your poor health.
  • blueeyetea
    blueeyetea Posts: 44 Member
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    I've been hearing about this more and more on social media as well as here on MFP.

    Apparently, if you're suffering from an entire range of symptoms that are also very common to other ailments, you could be afflicted with 'Adrenal Fatigue.'

    Curious as to people's understanding and experience with this syndrome, and whether you think it's genuine or bogus.

    I'm currently on the bogus side, but am open-minded, even though the latest scientific study on this does not support Adrenal Fatigue as being a medically diagnosable/recognized ailment.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

    Quoted from the website " caused by chronic exposure to stressful situations", which is another definition for "suffering from burnout". Would you consider that bogus too?
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    In all honesty, I just don't know if adrenal fatigue is bogus or not because I have not studied up on it. However, how is this diagnosed? Don't you have to have your adrenal glands tested? I ask this because my man had to go through some testing of his adrenal glands due to a growth there. The doctors wanted to make sure they were correctly releasing his cortisol, which they were. But, adrenal fatigue was never mentioned as a possible diagnosis.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited March 2017
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    In all honesty, I just don't know if adrenal fatigue is bogus or not because I have not studied up on it. However, how is this diagnosed? Don't you have to have your adrenal glands tested? I ask this because my man had to go through some testing of his adrenal glands due to a growth there. The doctors wanted to make sure they were correctly releasing his cortisol, which they were. But, adrenal fatigue was never mentioned as a possible diagnosis.

    Same for Mr. BurnEmAll.

    Also, I wasn't aware that there was any credible debate regarding hypothyroidism.
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    In all honesty, I just don't know if adrenal fatigue is bogus or not because I have not studied up on it. However, how is this diagnosed?
    Well, since it is a fake disease it can't be diagnosed. But because quacks such as chiropractors, naturopaths, and functional/integrative medicine doctors can make a buck selling false hope to their victims they "diagnose" by having one or more of any of the following vague, non-specific symptoms:
    Tiredness, trouble getting up in the morning, needing coffee, cola, salty or sweet snacks to keep going, feeling run down and stressed, craving salty or sweet snacks, struggling to keep up with life’s daily demands, unable to bounce back from stress or illness, not having fun anymore, and decreased sex drive.
    The above was the actual questionnaire​ given the quack chiropractor who invented the "disease"
    Don't you have to have your adrenal glands tested?
    Not in the sense you are thinking. The quacks will do "tests" that aren't validated that are performed by very questionable labs. Oh, these non-specific tests will cost you a lot money out of pocket.
    I ask this because my man had to go through some testing of his adrenal glands due to a growth there. The doctors wanted to make sure they were correctly releasing his cortisol, which they were. But, adrenal fatigue was never mentioned as a possible diagnosis.
    Because it's not a real diagnosis, as such real doctors don't mention it as a possible diagnosis. It would be highly unethical to to give a fake diagnosis.
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    In all honesty, I just don't know if adrenal fatigue is bogus or not because I have not studied up on it. However, how is this diagnosed? Don't you have to have your adrenal glands tested? I ask this because my man had to go through some testing of his adrenal glands due to a growth there. The doctors wanted to make sure they were correctly releasing his cortisol, which they were. But, adrenal fatigue was never mentioned as a possible diagnosis.

    Same for Mr. BurnEmAll.

    Also, I wasn't aware that there was any credible debate regarding hypothyroidism.

    You're right, there is no debate regarding hypothroidism. But the alternative quacks realized this another area where they can score some easy cash and decided to get involved. So they manufactured a controversy where the isn't one.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,972 Member
    Fuzzipeg wrote: »
    I'm confident to set a challenge to anyone who has poor health, at least gives this a go. Look into Functional Medicine. You have nothing to loose but your poor health.
    Not always true. If symptoms persist, they likely spent an ungodly amount of money if it's not covered by health insurance.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,972 Member
    I have not found it credible enough to even mention it to any client.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • Tankiscool
    Tankiscool Posts: 11,105 Member
    Its a real thing HOWEVER its being over played on social media like most things. If people are dieting and loosing fat they will have the same symptoms. So they do not have it. Its part of the dieting and your body adapting into using your stored fat, fat cells, into energy and when that happens and the fat is being released it also releases hormones which can raise estrogen levels. So for males you may experience similar symptoms but its mainly due to losing fat You can cause adrenal fatigue in other ways. One example is taking STIMS, caffeine, in large quantities for long periods of time that why is you so happen to get on a ECA stack you should cycle the C which is caffeine for those who don't know, I'm talking over 600mgs a day not 3 cups of coffee, a cup of coffee has about 80mg of caffeine as well as you sip or drink it not taking a pill that goes into your blood stream almost instantly. As well to note that the symptoms of Adrenal fatigue are similar to other underlying issues.

    Bottom line is I am with you that it is "bogus" but it is a real thing and it should be diagnosed by a medical professional and not a self diagnoses. If you feel like crap dieting, increase your calories to maintenance for a week or take a break from exercising and then see how you feel. Most likely your symptoms will disappear completely.

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