Newbie Question about CICO and MFP
PastorVincent
Posts: 6,668 Member
So a long time ago (well not that long) I was much heavier, and I lost a bunch of weight (50 pounds). Then eventually gained it back, and lost it again. I have been doing pretty okay, but as time rolls on I see it slowly coming back. I REALLY do not want to find it all again, so I thought I would give MFP and CICO a try since it appealed to my logical side. I am 5 days into this plan.
Well, the problem is - CICO seems to be all over the map. For example today I will finish with over 1500 calories LEFT TO EAT. (1700 daily goal, and I ran 18 miles of hills, so net right now is in the negatives still). Tomorrow is a rest day which means I will have to eat less than 1/2 of what I ate today, and less than 1/3rd of what I was supposed to eat today (to loose 1 pound a week -need only drop like 5-10 pounds). Then Monday, I will probably burn 1000 calories in exercise, meaning I will need to eat half again as much as the day before.
So, I guess I am getting whiplash here. Am I missing something? I was hoping that CICO would be simple and straight forward. Eat good variety and keep quantity under control. Sounds like a nice logical diet... but 5 days in, and I am getting dizzy trying to keep up.
Thanks for any advice.
Well, the problem is - CICO seems to be all over the map. For example today I will finish with over 1500 calories LEFT TO EAT. (1700 daily goal, and I ran 18 miles of hills, so net right now is in the negatives still). Tomorrow is a rest day which means I will have to eat less than 1/2 of what I ate today, and less than 1/3rd of what I was supposed to eat today (to loose 1 pound a week -need only drop like 5-10 pounds). Then Monday, I will probably burn 1000 calories in exercise, meaning I will need to eat half again as much as the day before.
So, I guess I am getting whiplash here. Am I missing something? I was hoping that CICO would be simple and straight forward. Eat good variety and keep quantity under control. Sounds like a nice logical diet... but 5 days in, and I am getting dizzy trying to keep up.
Thanks for any advice.
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Replies
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You don't necessarily have to hit the exact numbers each day (and could drive yourself nuts trying). Try looking at your calories as a weekly goal instead of daily. So if on an weekly average (totally made up numbers) you burn 2000 a day that would be 14000 calories a week, less the 3500 to lose a pound a week gives you 12250 a week divided by 7 = 1500 day. I find that works better than trying to adjust on a daily basis.
On the app, you can see your weekly net average under the nutrition tab.5 -
Most people don't eat back all the calories. And I agree that averages are better. I only exercise three times a week (I am 67 and lazy), but it averages out. Good luck. I have been a yo-yo dieter my whole adult life and am resolved to maintain this time.0
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MFP over estimates calories burn so most eat 50 % to 75% back on exercise calories3
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VydorScope wrote: »
Say you burn 1000 extra calories through exercise, mfp will expect you to eat ALL of them back. But some people only eat back 50%, so 500 of those 1000 calories. Others will bank the calories for the weekend or a splurge night or whatever.
There is also the chance that your exercise calories are over stated, so it's best to start with eating 50-75% back at first. If you start losing more than expected, eat back more. Losing less than expected, eat back less. Ideally it will be spot on and you can eat 100% back, but you will have to do a bit of trial end error first.3 -
ms_smartypants wrote: »MFP over estimates calories burn so most eat 50 % to 75% back on exercise calories
I use Runkeeper to track calorie burn - and in my experience, it always displays fewer calories than the UA line of apps. Not sure if that means it is accurate or not.
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Christine_72 wrote: »Others will bank the calories for the weekend or a splurge night or whatever.
You can bank calories? For how long?
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You may be better off doing a TDEE CICO method. It is a similar concept but instead of approaching calories daily you look at a weekly number.
Just look at your runkeeper data from the past few weeks and figure out what your average burn was for an entire week. Divide by 7 to split it across the week. Add to your daily maintenance calories and subtract whatever deficit you want to lose. With this goal your exercise is already accounted for so you do not add it in and eat it back.
You can manually set your calorie goal in the goals section.
The catch to this method is you have to be good about doing your exercise as you are already eating those calories back. If you start slacking you may not lose or even gain!2 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »You may be better off doing a TDEE CICO method. It is a similar concept but instead of approaching calories daily you look at a weekly number.
Just look at your runkeeper data from the past few weeks and figure out what your average burn was for an entire week. Divide by 7 to split it across the week. Add to your daily maintenance calories and subtract whatever deficit you want to lose. With this goal your exercise is already accounted for so you do not add it in and eat it back.
You can manually set your calorie goal in the goals section.
The catch to this method is you have to be good about doing your exercise as you are already eating those calories back. If you start slacking you may not lose or even gain!
+1
I was also going to suggest using TDEE - 20% (your TDEE minus 500 calories). I found MFP's NEAT + exercise confusing for me and I found having a steady number each day easier to adhere. TDEE works best when you have a good handle on exercise data and if you're doing the same amount of exercise each day.
TDEE - total daily energy expenditure0 -
Some of us seem to save and spend our banked calories on a weekly time frame. Women dealing with their menses seem to save and spend theirs on a monthly basis. It's more to do with accepting the erratic fluctuations of this journey with equanimity. We don't have an app for that.VydorScope wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Others will bank the calories for the weekend or a splurge night or whatever.
You can bank calories? For how long?0 -
18 miles of hill?0
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Harbin2017 wrote: »18 miles of hill?
Yes. The area where I live is very hilly, so a lot of hills.0 -
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VydorScope wrote: »Harbin2017 wrote: »18 miles of hill?
Yes. The area where I live is very hilly, so a lot of hills.
How many hours does it take you to walk 18 miles? That is a massive amount!0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »How many hours does it take you to walk 18 miles? That is a massive amount!
Well if I walked it, I guess 6 - 7 hours? But I jogged it so only took about 1/2 that time.
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Yes, your actual CICO is all over the map. Just focus on your dailyVydorScope wrote: »So a long time ago (well not that long) I was much heavier, and I lost a bunch of weight (50 pounds). Then eventually gained it back, and lost it again. I have been doing pretty okay, but as time rolls on I see it slowly coming back. I REALLY do not want to find it all again, so I thought I would give MFP and CICO a try since it appealed to my logical side. I am 5 days into this plan.
Well, the problem is - CICO seems to be all over the map. For example today I will finish with over 1500 calories LEFT TO EAT. (1700 daily goal, and I ran 18 miles of hills, so net right now is in the negatives still). Tomorrow is a rest day which means I will have to eat less than 1/2 of what I ate today, and less than 1/3rd of what I was supposed to eat today (to loose 1 pound a week -need only drop like 5-10 pounds). Then Monday, I will probably burn 1000 calories in exercise, meaning I will need to eat half again as much as the day before.
So, I guess I am getting whiplash here. Am I missing something? I was hoping that CICO would be simple and straight forward. Eat good variety and keep quantity under control. Sounds like a nice logical diet... but 5 days in, and I am getting dizzy trying to keep up.
Thanks for any advice.
CICO is straight forward, but you should think of it as the theory behind weight changes and not as a diet. Remember weight loss is about your trend over time, you don't need to hit an exact deficit figure every day. Your cumulative deficit at the end of the week, or month is what shows up on the scales.
I keep my CI target fairly set, which helps with my discipline. I would only eat back exercise calories if I'm really famished.1 -
Yes, your actual CICO is all over the map. Just focus on your dailyVydorScope wrote: »So a long time ago (well not that long) I was much heavier, and I lost a bunch of weight (50 pounds). Then eventually gained it back, and lost it again. I have been doing pretty okay, but as time rolls on I see it slowly coming back. I REALLY do not want to find it all again, so I thought I would give MFP and CICO a try since it appealed to my logical side. I am 5 days into this plan.
Well, the problem is - CICO seems to be all over the map. For example today I will finish with over 1500 calories LEFT TO EAT. (1700 daily goal, and I ran 18 miles of hills, so net right now is in the negatives still). Tomorrow is a rest day which means I will have to eat less than 1/2 of what I ate today, and less than 1/3rd of what I was supposed to eat today (to loose 1 pound a week -need only drop like 5-10 pounds). Then Monday, I will probably burn 1000 calories in exercise, meaning I will need to eat half again as much as the day before.
So, I guess I am getting whiplash here. Am I missing something? I was hoping that CICO would be simple and straight forward. Eat good variety and keep quantity under control. Sounds like a nice logical diet... but 5 days in, and I am getting dizzy trying to keep up.
Thanks for any advice.
CICO is straight forward, but you should think of it as the theory behind weight changes and not as a diet. Remember weight loss is about your trend over time, you don't need to hit an exact deficit figure every day. Your cumulative deficit at the end of the week, or month is what shows up on the scales.
I keep my CI target fairly set, which helps with my discipline. I would only eat back exercise calories if I'm really famished.
It can be very reasonable not to eat back exercise calories, as long as it's not a huge number, and one doesn't already have a large deficit.
With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
OP, others have given very reasonable advice about alternative ways to average your daily calories (TDEE or NEAT methods), to eat at a consistent daily level if you prefer. If you find you are hungrier on long-run days, you can always apportion your eating calories across the week in a slightly uneven way that isn't so variable as to cause whiplash, such as eating an extra couple of hundred on heavy exercise days (or the day after, if you happen to be someone who's hungrier then).
But certainly, in your case, building into your eating goal at least half the exercise calories (or thereabouts) seems like a good starting point, and you can adjust from there as necessary.2 -
I had a question. I'm totally new to this, I've downloaded the app and entered my information. I see 2,230 is my goal. Then I see a section for food and exercise. I know I am to log my meals and exercise activity, but what is the "remaining" section supposed to look like at the end of the day? Is it supposed to be negative? positive? at zero?0
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RuizJoel23 wrote: »I had a question. I'm totally new to this, I've downloaded the app and entered my information. I see 2,230 is my goal. Then I see a section for food and exercise. I know I am to log my meals and exercise activity, but what is the "remaining" section supposed to look like at the end of the day? Is it supposed to be negative? positive? at zero?
zero
Remaining = 02 -
With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."
Do you think he actually runs 18 miles in the hills at 6mph,
yet needs MFP help to manage weight?2 -
OP, just to clarify, CICO isn't a diet. It's a mathematical equation that describes the fundamental energy balance... whether you are losing, maintaining, or gaining weight - CICO is the overarching principle.
So I'm not sure exactly what method you were trying to follow or what your overall goals are, but MFP is built off of a NEAT estimate of your calorie burn excluding exercise, such that if you do exercise, you should eat back at least a portion of those calories. As others have said, many here instead decide to use TDEE which is an estimate of your total calorie burn including exercise, best for those with consistent exercise routines, and if so, you would not eat back the exercise cals since they would be built into your initial target.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."
Do you think he actually runs 18 miles in the hills at 6mph,
yet needs MFP help to manage weight?
(shrug) He seems to think he does; I believed him.3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."
Do you think he actually runs 18 miles in the hills at 6mph,
yet needs MFP help to manage weight?
Fair question, look for yourself: http://rnkpr.com/afrqin3
Also, see attached screen shot.
I have gained and lost 50 pounds twice. Just cause I run does not mean I am good about eating. If I was good about eating, I would not need to run 18 miles.
I am training for a marathon. I was supposed to hit 20 miles that day. Will try again this weekend for 20. Not sure where you got 6mph from, but my goal is 7mph. I have a ways to go yet. I can do 7mph on short distances, but not the full 26.2!3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."
Do you think he actually runs 18 miles in the hills at 6mph,
yet needs MFP help to manage weight?
I use MFP to manage weight as an endurance triathlete - working with an RD to customize my eating plan - I take their calorie recommendations and plug them into MFP...but if you don't do something like that (and I pay premium to disconnect exercise calories), it can get confusing1 -
I'd recommend not doing 2 loVydorScope wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »With OP off on 18 mile jogs through the hills, I think it would be more than reasonable - necessary for health and vitality, maybe even - to eat back at least some of those exercise calories, at almost any given deficit on the consumption side.
I agree. This isn't "I watched a HIIT video for 15 minutes."
Do you think he actually runs 18 miles in the hills at 6mph,
yet needs MFP help to manage weight?
Fair question, look for yourself: http://rnkpr.com/afrqin3
Also, see attached screen shot.
I have gained and lost 50 pounds twice. Just cause I run does not mean I am good about eating. If I was good about eating, I would not need to run 18 miles.
I am training for a marathon. I was supposed to hit 20 miles that day. Will try again this weekend for 20. Not sure where you got 6mph from, but my goal is 7mph. I have a ways to go yet. I can do 7mph on short distances, but not the full 26.2!
I'd recommend not doing 2 long runs like that over 2 weeks - you risk potential injury - I'd give it at least a week break (of note, my longest runs for ironmen are 17-20 miles about 4 weeks out and then I taper)
when is your race?1 -
deannalfisher wrote: »
I'd recommend not doing 2 long runs like that over 2 weeks - you risk potential injury - I'd give it at least a week break (of note, my longest runs for ironmen are 17-20 miles about 4 weeks out and then I taper)
when is your race?
Err.. this would be 3 long runs over 3 weeks... 17 miles was the week before... assuming I can get out this weekend.
Running the Pittsburgh Marathon this May. I feel like I am about a month behind where I wanted to be, but been a rough winter with work/etc interfering with training.
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20 miles and 5 weeks out from the race - you are starting to get to the stage where injury could play a role
you have a solid base right now; I'd dial it back a week and then do one last long run before taper - 2-3 weeks out0 -
On the plus side, I am quickly approaching race weight, but far faster than I wanted to. I think I probably need to eat more. Which is scary given my weakness for tasty food.
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deannalfisher wrote: »20 miles and 5 weeks out from the race - you are starting to get to the stage where injury could play a role
you have a solid base right now; I'd dial it back a week and then do one last long run before taper - 2-3 weeks out
I hear you... but if I can not push through to 20 miles now, how in the world will I be able to do 26 in May? I need to get to a 9ish min pace to beat my goal of 4 hours. I have a lot more running to do I think.0
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