Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Is losing weight mostly psychological?
Replies
-
I can agree with this to a point. As children, we're usually going to have a set of habits around eating based on environment. However, those habits can be changed over time dependent on environment. But if habitual behavior is really strong in one, I believe that environment won't affect them that much. Maybe when it comes down to lack of choices (food availability from one place to another), may one move to a different behavior.
Okay, but are we saying that people in countries that have an obesity issue are psychologically "weaker" than other countries who have the same availability of food, but don't have an obesity issue?
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
Well, yes. Put someone in a situation where they have no personal agency, and individual psychology will be less of a factor. Outside of those settings there are clearly psychological factors at work, including those behind making the decision to lose weight in the first place.
It might be worth mentioning that psychological molding of recruits is part of the point of boot camp too.
I very much doubt that's a useful way to frame the issue, and I'm not sure why someone would choose to. Eating habits are absorbed from the surrounding culture at least as much as from any other source, and it takes more mental effort to move against the prevailing cultural pressure than to follow a course of action that goes along with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Yes!!! I'm actually writing a book about it!0
-
I can agree with this to a point. As children, we're usually going to have a set of habits around eating based on environment. However, those habits can be changed over time dependent on environment. But if habitual behavior is really strong in one, I believe that environment won't affect them that much. Maybe when it comes down to lack of choices (food availability from one place to another), may one move to a different behavior.
Okay, but are we saying that people in countries that have an obesity issue are psychologically "weaker" than other countries who have the same availability of food, but don't have an obesity issue?
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
Well, yes. Put someone in a situation where they have no personal agency, and individual psychology will be less of a factor. Outside of those settings there are clearly psychological factors at work, including those behind making the decision to lose weight in the first place.
It might be worth mentioning that psychological molding of recruits is part of the point of boot camp too.
I very much doubt that's a useful way to frame the issue, and I'm not sure why someone would choose to. Eating habits are absorbed from the surrounding culture at least as much as from any other source, and it takes more mental effort to move against the prevailing cultural pressure than to follow a course of action that goes along with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Habits are a mental process, at least mostly. We get in the habit of eating to much, mfp is a tool that we can use to break old habits and help us hopefully establish new habits. Our old habits are taken from the culture we are surrounded by as children. That's why people often revert back, they don't Change there community and it makes it that much easier to go back to the old habits. Just like with drug addiction if you quit you are likely to use again if you stay with active users.1 -
kinesiologic wrote: »This is probably my favourite obesity image ever: http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html?
Obesity is ridiculously complex, multi-faceted, and determined by a huge number of factors: evolutionary, biological, social, cultural, environmental, and psychological. To say that obesity (and weight loss) is a matter of psychology is a gross over-simplification of an exceptionally complex issue.
I just got home from a behavioural medicine conference that involved over 2000 leading researchers in health and disease - including a large obesity/weight loss contingent. I didn't see a single poster or presentation that claimed weight loss was all in your head.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/why-willpower-isn-t-enough-to-keep-the-pounds-off-1.3907411
Short answer: no, it's not just psychology.
With respect to the link, specifically: Sounds like the answer is "give up" (and don't shame others).
Did you learn anything helpful you can share with us, at the behavioural medicine conference, especially things that might suggest alternatives to giving up?1 -
kinesiologic wrote: »This is probably my favourite obesity image ever: http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html?
Obesity is ridiculously complex, multi-faceted, and determined by a huge number of factors: evolutionary, biological, social, cultural, environmental, and psychological. To say that obesity (and weight loss) is a matter of psychology is a gross over-simplification of an exceptionally complex issue.
I just got home from a behavioural medicine conference that involved over 2000 leading researchers in health and disease - including a large obesity/weight loss contingent. I didn't see a single poster or presentation that claimed weight loss was all in your head.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/why-willpower-isn-t-enough-to-keep-the-pounds-off-1.3907411
Short answer: no, it's not just psychology.
With respect to the link, specifically: Sounds like the answer is "give up" (and don't shame others).
Did you learn anything helpful you can share with us, at the behavioural medicine conference, especially things that might suggest alternatives to giving up?
I will also note that the vast majority of things in the map relate to psychology in some way.
I do agree that it's multi-faceted, of course, but humans have not changed biologically. What has changed -- if one doesn't want to just admit defeat -- is our food environment, so we have to come up with a way (given our existing biology) of succeeding within that food environment.3 -
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The entire point of boot camp is to tear down all habits and rebuild strong habits of personal success, unit cohesion, and the core values of the respective organization. These programs are developed around the psychological impact - the physical element serves as a great mental conditioner. Weight loss is a output of these core elements.
6 -
I can see how that could be very frustrating.
Something that was helpful for me to change my state of mind is making the decision to change the way I eat. It helped for me to feel back in control of what I put in my body...
Good luck!1 -
I look at this in a more general manner - similar how one would identify in a "The 10 Traits of Successful People". Weight management is no different that success in any other endeavor - maintaining a budget, climbing the corporate ladder, academic success... Weight has become a personal matter as it is tightly connected to body image and how we view ourselves. This is not something we can hide like a failing grade on a test. It is real and exposed to everyone.
This stresses the need to go back to basics and identify the core behaviors that lead to obesity - by managing a caloric budget, identifying individual eating habits, removing bad habits and replacing these with habits that promote health.
So yes - it is primarily psychological; however like anything if you don't develop habits creating a positive feedback loop and reinforce your psyche, your chances of failure increase as you become solely reliant on willpower.1 -
Starting in Oct 2014 the understanding finally came to my mind after all of these years to just take 'weight loss' off of the table and to just forget about it.
Very few become obese prior to physical/mental health decline due to endless causes.
When my focus went from the size of my pants to learning how to possibly live to be 110 and walking and talking the entire way is what turned me around both mentally and physically.
My way of eating and moving is being modified by just the results of one $30 test that can be ordered online (at least in most of the USA).
lifeextension.com/magazine/2014/5/testing-for-c-reactive-protein-may-save-your-life/page-01
The actual test.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/itemLC120766/C-Reactive-Protein-CRP-Cardiac-Blood-Test
All testing options.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests
While it is over $400 on sale the next time I plan to go for the Male Elite Panel so I have a private base line battery of tests for a reference point as my physical and mental health improves today.
Weight loss AND successful weight maintenance I now think is not going to happen when my CRP test results are elevated much above ZERO.
Food, exercise and supplement choices that may increase my CRP test scores are being removed for my life as they are identified.
Yes calories are a concern but not in the top 10 concerns that I have today macros are in my top ten list but my macro is adjusted based on my CRP scores going forward since I just started tracking CRP results 4 months ago.
A year by year decline in my CRP scores is Job #1 to make it to 110 walking and talking the entire way as I see it today.
Best of success to everyone has you each learn the way forward that works best for your mind and your body.
0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Very few become obese prior to physical/mental health decline due to endless causes.
I don't believe this is true, and have never seen any credible evidence presented that supports it.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Very few become obese prior to physical/mental health decline due to endless causes.
I don't believe this is true, and have never seen any credible evidence presented that supports it.
My n = family points in another direction, too: Mother = obese, maternal grandmother = obese, several paternal aunts = obese.
And before you decide they're too recent and are obviously part of the putative "physical/mental health decline". My mother would've been 105 this year. The rest were similar or older.
(ETA: Oh, and: All lived into their 80s, no assisted living residents in the bunch, so I think physical health was otherwise OK; and all of good mental health, except one aunt who was a tad eccentric but not to the point of interfering with daily life.
). 0 -
This argument is, perhaps by design, at cross-purposes on either side.
Is losing weight mostly psychological in terms of biochemistry? That is, is losing weight a situation of mind over matter, where if you just "think thin" you'll be thin? Obviously not. The thermodynamics of the situation govern everything about it. Paying attention to CICO is the only thing that accomplishes it.
Is the process of modifying our behavior in order to accomplish weight loss mostly psychological? For anyone likely to have access to this app/website, that's a clear yes. Unless we find ourselves in an environment of actual scarcity so that access to a surplus of food is no longer possible, which is rare in developed nations, or we are placed into a situation where we have no personal agency or autonomy, we must force our habits and behavior to change on our own, and our brains are the only things capable of that.3 -
I think it really depends on the person. Not everyone who is overweight necessarily has an eating problem, but are perhaps just misinformed about nutrition and how it all works. I know that education on these matter in homes and school is lacking, to say the least. Speaking for myself, as someone who has very serious issues with food and body image. . . It is 100% psychological. I often find myself in a binge-restrict cycle. Breaking that cycle has been fundamental to my weight loss. I'm the kind of person that will find themselves legitimately crying and shaking trying to stop herself from eating another family sized bag of chips. Or someone who has to be convinced to eat after not eating for days as a form of punishment. So, yeah, it's definitely in my head.1
-
DawniDeHart wrote: »I think it really depends on the person. Not everyone who is overweight necessarily has an eating problem
By "is it psychological?" I am not reading "do people overeat due to an eating problem." Some seem to be reading that in.1 -
For me, yes! All in my head. I am a binge eater. It takes a lot of self control for me to keep this in check. If I falter, the whole bag of Oreos, a brick of cheese, half a jar of nut butter, handfuls of chocolate chips and more get eaten. I was the kid who ate sugar behind the pantry door with a spoon or who would devour a bag of flaked coconut just because. I can feel physically ill and I keep eating. There is no "one bite" or "just a taste" for me. I have to avoid some foods completely. Total head game on an emotional or very tired or stressed day. 35yo and improving though!4
-
there are more binge eaters out there than people realize, i think! it's been enlightening and comforting to know that i'm not the only one who might eat past being full...and then eat some more...when home alone. i wish it was as easy as saying "you don't feel good, you don't look good, so stop binging" but it IS mental and there's so much to have to unravel....and baby steps have to count for something too!3
-
I don't think habits have to necessarily be a mental process. People drive all the time without actually focusing completely on their driving. Getting ready in the morning and brushing one's teeth and combing their hair doesn't take much mental ability.jeepinshawn wrote: »
I can agree with this to a point. As children, we're usually going to have a set of habits around eating based on environment. However, those habits can be changed over time dependent on environment. But if habitual behavior is really strong in one, I believe that environment won't affect them that much. Maybe when it comes down to lack of choices (food availability from one place to another), may one move to a different behavior.
Okay, but are we saying that people in countries that have an obesity issue are psychologically "weaker" than other countries who have the same availability of food, but don't have an obesity issue?
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
Well, yes. Put someone in a situation where they have no personal agency, and individual psychology will be less of a factor. Outside of those settings there are clearly psychological factors at work, including those behind making the decision to lose weight in the first place.
It might be worth mentioning that psychological molding of recruits is part of the point of boot camp too.
I very much doubt that's a useful way to frame the issue, and I'm not sure why someone would choose to. Eating habits are absorbed from the surrounding culture at least as much as from any other source, and it takes more mental effort to move against the prevailing cultural pressure than to follow a course of action that goes along with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Habits are a mental process, at least mostly. We get in the habit of eating to much, mfp is a tool that we can use to break old habits and help us hopefully establish new habits. Our old habits are taken from the culture we are surrounded by as children. That's why people often revert back, they don't Change there community and it makes it that much easier to go back to the old habits. Just like with drug addiction if you quit you are likely to use again if you stay with active users.
Regimen on a consistent basis is what helps to create a habit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
It's to create discipline within that person. But let me ask you, if they were allowed to eat as much as they wanted, do you think they would lose weight? Every boot camp I've seen restricts the amount of food recruits can eat and increase in physical activity which by in itself is the cause of weight loss. Same with the prison system and they aren't looking to build up core values. They are just looking to do their time with the least problems amongst the population.
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The entire point of boot camp is to tear down all habits and rebuild strong habits of personal success, unit cohesion, and the core values of the respective organization. These programs are developed around the psychological impact - the physical element serves as a great mental conditioner. Weight loss is a output of these core elements.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Let me just say that I've had two clients that weren't mentally able to make it on their own. Their parents wanted me to help with teaching basic exercises (and make it somewhat fun) and teach them (the parents) on how to moderate food intake for them. These clients concerns weren't about identifying core behaviors, managing calorie budgets etc. So mentally, they didn't have to be set for it. We just had to apply PHYSICALLY what we had to do to ensure it.I look at this in a more general manner - similar how one would identify in a "The 10 Traits of Successful People". Weight management is no different that success in any other endeavor - maintaining a budget, climbing the corporate ladder, academic success... Weight has become a personal matter as it is tightly connected to body image and how we view ourselves. This is not something we can hide like a failing grade on a test. It is real and exposed to everyone.
This stresses the need to go back to basics and identify the core behaviors that lead to obesity - by managing a caloric budget, identifying individual eating habits, removing bad habits and replacing these with habits that promote health.
So yes - it is primarily psychological; however like anything if you don't develop habits creating a positive feedback loop and reinforce your psyche, your chances of failure increase as you become solely reliant on willpower.
I get that people have to be strong in mind to overcome temptation, etc., but weight loss is more physical than psychological IMO. Habits again come from repetition. There are lots and lots of people who go to the gym everyday out of habit, like clockwork, but don't change because they physically haven't changed the way they eat. If they got into a regimen that was systematic (say eating the same way every day), then they'd more than likely see results.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
For me, it has been very much a mental struggle.
I've been obese for a long time. Looking back, I know it was all due to my eating habits, but I just made excuses at the time. I would say I didn't know why I had gained why, deny I had really gained 'that much,' and search for excuses. I thought I just had to have some deep underlying issues that doctors just couldn't find. I was that rare exception to everything.
Of course, I was wrong about that.
The first time I really tried to lose the weight, I was horrible to myself. I ate far too little, and I had bought into all the taboos of good and bad foods. I pushed myself beyond my limits. While I lost weight initially, I couldn't keep up with it. This was because I was in the wrong mindset. I didn't want to see results tomorrow - I wanted to see them last week! Plus, I was still in major denial. I was so convinced that I hadn't been eating all that much before, I thought I had to starve myself to lose, and you just can't continue on like that. I finally broke in, gave up, and resigned myself to just being the fattest person in the room.
This time I'm coming at things with a whole new attitude. I don't see food and calories as the enemy, nor have I completely blacklisted anything. I've become determined to teach myself better habits, and so far it's working. When I walk into a gas station, I'll grab a bottle of water instead of usual Dr Pepper. I'm losing weight, and I'm not miserable. My attitude's improved, and I'm actually noticing much better results. Just yesterday, the pair of pants I had bought last December fell off. I'm comfortably down a pant size.
So, it's been a mental struggle. I'm not saying that the physical hasn't played a roll. I have a plethora of medical issues that have hindered me. There was a time that simply wanting to get up and move was something that I could barely do, and it was physical. Of course, this played into the mental. I can't get rid of all my conditions. I will always have an immune disease as well as a ligament and connective tissue disorder. Yes, those do play into weight, but it's also how I approach them that makes a difference.4 -
youngmomtaz wrote: »For me, yes! All in my head. I am a binge eater. It takes a lot of self control for me to keep this in check. If I falter, the whole bag of Oreos, a brick of cheese, half a jar of nut butter, handfuls of chocolate chips and more get eaten. I was the kid who ate sugar behind the pantry door with a spoon or who would devour a bag of flaked coconut just because. I can feel physically ill and I keep eating. There is no "one bite" or "just a taste" for me. I have to avoid some foods completely. Total head game on an emotional or very tired or stressed day. 35yo and improving though!
@youngmomtaz I ate that way until I was 63. On a hunch I cut out all types of sweeteners and all forums of all grains. It was a hellish two week ride then the urge to keep eating even when it hurt just faded away. That was Oct 2014 and by leaving off those foods I am still doing fine. 40 years of 7-8 pain levels dropped into the 2-3 range after the first 30 days.
I am glad you and others have found your own individual solutions that give you better health.
By the way it was more like a year before my memory of eating this way faded away but the physical urge was not there that compelled me to binge even when I was over stuffed.1 -
I don't think habits have to necessarily be a mental process. People drive all the time without actually focusing completely on their driving. Getting ready in the morning and brushing one's teeth and combing their hair doesn't take much mental ability.jeepinshawn wrote: »
I can agree with this to a point. As children, we're usually going to have a set of habits around eating based on environment. However, those habits can be changed over time dependent on environment. But if habitual behavior is really strong in one, I believe that environment won't affect them that much. Maybe when it comes down to lack of choices (food availability from one place to another), may one move to a different behavior.
Okay, but are we saying that people in countries that have an obesity issue are psychologically "weaker" than other countries who have the same availability of food, but don't have an obesity issue?
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
Well, yes. Put someone in a situation where they have no personal agency, and individual psychology will be less of a factor. Outside of those settings there are clearly psychological factors at work, including those behind making the decision to lose weight in the first place.
It might be worth mentioning that psychological molding of recruits is part of the point of boot camp too.
I very much doubt that's a useful way to frame the issue, and I'm not sure why someone would choose to. Eating habits are absorbed from the surrounding culture at least as much as from any other source, and it takes more mental effort to move against the prevailing cultural pressure than to follow a course of action that goes along with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Habits are a mental process, at least mostly. We get in the habit of eating to much, mfp is a tool that we can use to break old habits and help us hopefully establish new habits. Our old habits are taken from the culture we are surrounded by as children. That's why people often revert back, they don't Change there community and it makes it that much easier to go back to the old habits. Just like with drug addiction if you quit you are likely to use again if you stay with active users.
Regimen on a consistent basis is what helps to create a habit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
100% of what ever human does is a mental process.1 -
It's to create discipline within that person. But let me ask you, if they were allowed to eat as much as they wanted, do you think they would lose weight? Every boot camp I've seen restricts the amount of food recruits can eat and increase in physical activity which by in itself is the cause of weight loss. Same with the prison system and they aren't looking to build up core values. They are just looking to do their time with the least problems amongst the population.
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The entire point of boot camp is to tear down all habits and rebuild strong habits of personal success, unit cohesion, and the core values of the respective organization. These programs are developed around the psychological impact - the physical element serves as a great mental conditioner. Weight loss is a output of these core elements.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When I was in Navy bootcamp in Orlando in 1973 gaining weight was not something I had to worry about yet the food was awesome and unlimited in any way.
Other places like prison I can not speak from experience.
Since humans typically have to have physical/mental health issues to become obese this is not a problem in military boot camps because those with issues are returned home in most cases.2 -
I don't think habits have to necessarily be a mental process. People drive all the time without actually focusing completely on their driving. Getting ready in the morning and brushing one's teeth and combing their hair doesn't take much mental ability.jeepinshawn wrote: »
I can agree with this to a point. As children, we're usually going to have a set of habits around eating based on environment. However, those habits can be changed over time dependent on environment. But if habitual behavior is really strong in one, I believe that environment won't affect them that much. Maybe when it comes down to lack of choices (food availability from one place to another), may one move to a different behavior.
Okay, but are we saying that people in countries that have an obesity issue are psychologically "weaker" than other countries who have the same availability of food, but don't have an obesity issue?
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
Well, yes. Put someone in a situation where they have no personal agency, and individual psychology will be less of a factor. Outside of those settings there are clearly psychological factors at work, including those behind making the decision to lose weight in the first place.
It might be worth mentioning that psychological molding of recruits is part of the point of boot camp too.
I very much doubt that's a useful way to frame the issue, and I'm not sure why someone would choose to. Eating habits are absorbed from the surrounding culture at least as much as from any other source, and it takes more mental effort to move against the prevailing cultural pressure than to follow a course of action that goes along with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Habits are a mental process, at least mostly. We get in the habit of eating to much, mfp is a tool that we can use to break old habits and help us hopefully establish new habits. Our old habits are taken from the culture we are surrounded by as children. That's why people often revert back, they don't Change there community and it makes it that much easier to go back to the old habits. Just like with drug addiction if you quit you are likely to use again if you stay with active users.
Regimen on a consistent basis is what helps to create a habit.
The effect of a habit is mental, the creation of a habit is something that affects your mind.
Good book on habit: http://charlesduhigg.com/the-power-of-habit/
That we have a harder or easier time doing something because of habit and can change that, again by creating different habits, seems to me to support the idea that it's mental.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Since humans typically have to have physical/mental health issues to become obese this is not a problem in military boot camps because those with issues are returned home in most cases.
You keep saying this, but I've yet to see any credible evidence supporting it.
Numerous normal humans become obese. It is not difficult.0 -
TheLadyBane wrote: »I would say the number one factor in me successfully losing weight has been my mindset. I was morbidly obese for about 10 years. I would sometimes say to myself "things would be so much easier if I wasn't so big" or "I wish I was smaller". I even made a few half-hearted attempts at weight loss that mostly involved replacing lunch with a can of slimfast, but my mindset was not one that would really allow change or progress. I was too comfortable with my reality even if I wasn't happy in that reality.
It wasn't until I woke up one day and was truly fed up with my current state of being that I was able to make changes. Everything changed immediately. My mind was sick of my lack of activity, my passivity in my own life, negative self-talk, my uneducated food choices and the amount of food I was eating. Overnight I made massive changes. I began exercising every day. I paid attention to the food I was eating. I ate to feed my body, not to soothe emotional needs or out of boredom. I learned about portion size and nutrition.
I have lost over 100 lbs and have maintained that loss. I'm still figuring out the right maintenance weight for myself but I am no longer morbidly obese. I've run a marathon. I've hiked 30 miles in one day just for fun. I've achieved the weight lifting goals I set for myself.
I would not have been able to have done any of those things if my mindset hadn't changed and if I hadn't been in the mental space where I could allow change. In my case mindset was the key to success.
Can I please add you?! You seem so motivational and that's what I need right now.1 -
It's to create discipline within that person. But let me ask you, if they were allowed to eat as much as they wanted, do you think they would lose weight? Every boot camp I've seen restricts the amount of food recruits can eat and increase in physical activity which by in itself is the cause of weight loss. Same with the prison system and they aren't looking to build up core values. They are just looking to do their time with the least problems amongst the population.
Disagree. Go to military boot camps. They aren't mentally set to lose weight. They just get physically challenged and then eat PORTIONED amounts of food. Same in a prison system. Many go in overweight and come out much slimmer. Their psychology has not much to do with weight loss, but deflected to other issues.GaleHawkins wrote: »Kimblesnbits13 wrote: »I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on this. I'm very big into mindset changes along with permanent habit and lifestyle changes. In my opinion, losing weight and even maintaining the lost weight is mostly psychological than anything else. I dont think people realize how much internal mindset affects the whole process and because of this, when they've reached goal weight, many will gain it back. It all comes from "within". Whether they lose the motivation, or forget the "habits" that were supposed to be built for a lifetime etc. Unless there is a health issue on hand, do you mostly agree or disagree?
@Kimblesnbits13 I personally find weight loss is 99% based on my intent so yes in my case it is mostly psychological. Really it is not possible to be the other way around.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The entire point of boot camp is to tear down all habits and rebuild strong habits of personal success, unit cohesion, and the core values of the respective organization. These programs are developed around the psychological impact - the physical element serves as a great mental conditioner. Weight loss is a output of these core elements.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm not disagreeing with this point, but expanding it. My experience was Navy boot camp, which does not stress physical fitness and only until recently added additional PRT in the curriculum for those looking to serve in the more physically demanding roles. A good percentage of the recruits were gaining weight in boot camp and we see similar results in prison. Those who learned to stress eat continue the same activity.
Military boot camps also have a weight restrictive program for recruits at risk of failing PRT measurements and have them on caloric deficits and increased physical activity programs.
The key point are the habits one develops while in regimented programs like this. Even at my heaviest weight I could still bang out 40 push-ups, but this became behavioral - I begin every morning with the same routine. I make my bed and knock out 40 push-ups.1 -
Let me just say that I've had two clients that weren't mentally able to make it on their own. Their parents wanted me to help with teaching basic exercises (and make it somewhat fun) and teach them (the parents) on how to moderate food intake for them. These clients concerns weren't about identifying core behaviors, managing calorie budgets etc. So mentally, they didn't have to be set for it. We just had to apply PHYSICALLY what we had to do to ensure it.I look at this in a more general manner - similar how one would identify in a "The 10 Traits of Successful People". Weight management is no different that success in any other endeavor - maintaining a budget, climbing the corporate ladder, academic success... Weight has become a personal matter as it is tightly connected to body image and how we view ourselves. This is not something we can hide like a failing grade on a test. It is real and exposed to everyone.
This stresses the need to go back to basics and identify the core behaviors that lead to obesity - by managing a caloric budget, identifying individual eating habits, removing bad habits and replacing these with habits that promote health.
So yes - it is primarily psychological; however like anything if you don't develop habits creating a positive feedback loop and reinforce your psyche, your chances of failure increase as you become solely reliant on willpower.
I get that people have to be strong in mind to overcome temptation, etc., but weight loss is more physical than psychological IMO. Habits again come from repetition. There are lots and lots of people who go to the gym everyday out of habit, like clockwork, but don't change because they physically haven't changed the way they eat. If they got into a regimen that was systematic (say eating the same way every day), then they'd more than likely see results.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
We're just disagreeing slightly on our interpretations of "mental" and this has become a chicken/egg debate. Bottom line is that we are both correct, differing in our approach, but achieving the same endpoint. In your business you serve as a positive feedback and motivator for those who lack that mental fortitude to build the habits themselves, but they did have the self awareness to outsource this source of motivation to you. You provide the discipline and regimented behavior.
The vast majority lack the self awareness to recognize the core behaviors and spend time focusing on symptoms. Hence the volume of "Why can't I lose weight?" queries.
Same with the gym goers - these people have addressed a symptom, but not the more critical symptom of caloric surplus.
It isn't possible to separate the mental and physical elements of this. I have a strong sense that this would be one of the key issues with yo-yo dieting. Those who address positive feedback on both the mental and physical aspects have a much stronger chance of long term success.
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Since humans typically have to have physical/mental health issues to become obese this is not a problem in military boot camps because those with issues are returned home in most cases.
You keep saying this, but I've yet to see any credible evidence supporting it.
Numerous normal humans become obese. It is not difficult.
health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight
Why People Become Overweight
@lemurcat12 the above from a Harvard publication is just one place one may start a Google search.
Keep in mind long before I earned a terminal degree in human healthcare I was working with live animals starting around age 6. The way I question things today at 66 is basically unchanged from when I was 6 years old.
While we had many different animals on the farm it was the cows that influenced my understanding of healthcare issues the most. The few times dad would have a Vet come out were exciting for me.
Working with the cows I saw the ones that could not gain weight like the others would be removed from the herd for example. I come to understand the overweight cows were hard to breed and may even miss a calving cycle.
One cow had twins multi times as did her offsprings. The fatter cows produced breeding stock that would produce heavier offsprings and the skinny cows did the opposite. Behavioral traits for perhaps several reasons seemed to follow the same the same gene pool as well. These cows were not segregated in any physical way and all had the same access to the same food supply. From this time of the year until about October they were only grass fed yet they still would have different levels of body fat.
These were of registered Angus bloodlines.
Personally I am a pattern recognizer and that makes life more simple for me. Many who grew up in my era could read animals, people, the clouds, plant conditions, etc at a glance.
Over the years a lot of things that I learned directly/indirectly I am coming to realize did not make sense so I had to go back to ground ZERO and start over just like I did with my Way Of Eating in 2014. The same thing happened in all of my belief systems about life in general. Talk about people attacking the way we eat when we learn a better way just try that at most churches with your old belief systems. I came to realize I had been taught a lot of BS at church. In fact after graduate school I moved back to the area and today attend the same church still today. Wednesday evening some of us most senior members got into an open discussion in front of the younger member how much of our teaching as kids was nothing more than BS.
I expect others on MFP who have started to question their direct/indirect teachings about healthcare and Way of Eating in particular are starting to ask if I was this wrong about my WOE what other areas of my life is going poorly due to my false views of the facts?
@lemurcat12 I have been impressed by your posts and the questions you ask. I find it is the questions that we ask in life that leads to success or failure in the long run. I went 60 years asking the wrong health questions in my case.
Now at 66 I think there are NO final answers to life's questions as long as we are breathing and THINKING!
0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Since humans typically have to have physical/mental health issues to become obese this is not a problem in military boot camps because those with issues are returned home in most cases.
You keep saying this, but I've yet to see any credible evidence supporting it.
Numerous normal humans become obese. It is not difficult.
health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight
Why People Become Overweight
@lemurcat12 the above from a Harvard publication is just one place one may start a Google search.
It doesn't support what you claimed, sorry. (I'm a big fan of the approach to nutrition on that site, however.)
I'm not doing a google search to support something I think is untrue. If you make a claim, especially an extreme one like any one who becomes overweight/obese must have physical or mental illness first, it's up to you to provide the evidence.
Nor did your cow story support the claim.
It's not hard for animals to become overweight when they have access to more calories than they need, and many do. I've seen this myself. If all of these animals were sick beforehand, I've yet to see the evidence or even a claim by anyone credible that that is the case.3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.7K Getting Started
- 260.1K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 419 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.9K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.5K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions