Is a calorie really a calorie?
dudebro200
Posts: 97 Member
A study received some public attention a month or so ago. I am on mobile so I can't link it (my phone is restricted so I can keep my focus)
It seems to suggest that, like our pet dogs, humans adapted to the neolithic era in terms of digestion. Besides the obvious lactose tolerance. Europeans, for example, need more grains and veggies because they descend from many generations of farmers.
In contrast, Inuits have adapted to high protien and high fat diets as that was their main food source.
Multiple times in history, we have seen Aboriginal people switch from a meat and veggie diet to a neothilic diet and instantly become overweight, suffer heart disease, sloth and a whole host of other dietary related problems. Then they return to the bush and these problems get fixed.
East Asians eat an extreme amount of carbs and they stay lean.
Sure, eat a deficit and lose weight. That's obvious, but I am not sure that regional diets are compatible with all humans. If you're an Inuit, you can eat nothing but meat and fat, and feel fine. I have been eating minimal to no grains and only veggies/meat for a few months. While I have lost weight, my cholesterol shot up to 330 (I just turned 35). I have unending constipation. I feel straight-up weird. All of this just to maintain my muscle mass while I cut. I want to keep certain deficit and maintain certain level of protien, which means carbs have to go.
This past weekend, I only ate bread, oatmeal, veggies and fruit. It was so relieving. I became regular again, and I didn't have an inflamed feeling in my chest. That's the diet my body designed for. I can't handle these insane amounts of proteins.
It seems to suggest that, like our pet dogs, humans adapted to the neolithic era in terms of digestion. Besides the obvious lactose tolerance. Europeans, for example, need more grains and veggies because they descend from many generations of farmers.
In contrast, Inuits have adapted to high protien and high fat diets as that was their main food source.
Multiple times in history, we have seen Aboriginal people switch from a meat and veggie diet to a neothilic diet and instantly become overweight, suffer heart disease, sloth and a whole host of other dietary related problems. Then they return to the bush and these problems get fixed.
East Asians eat an extreme amount of carbs and they stay lean.
Sure, eat a deficit and lose weight. That's obvious, but I am not sure that regional diets are compatible with all humans. If you're an Inuit, you can eat nothing but meat and fat, and feel fine. I have been eating minimal to no grains and only veggies/meat for a few months. While I have lost weight, my cholesterol shot up to 330 (I just turned 35). I have unending constipation. I feel straight-up weird. All of this just to maintain my muscle mass while I cut. I want to keep certain deficit and maintain certain level of protien, which means carbs have to go.
This past weekend, I only ate bread, oatmeal, veggies and fruit. It was so relieving. I became regular again, and I didn't have an inflamed feeling in my chest. That's the diet my body designed for. I can't handle these insane amounts of proteins.
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It might have to do with your ethnic makeup and heritage. It might have to do just with your very own body. Eat what makes you feel good. If you eat fewer calories than you burn, you lose weight. Weight is not the only measure of healthy, as you have discovered.0
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It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.12
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A calorie is a calorie just like an inch is an inch.
Saying calories are calories isn't saying that all foods are interchangeable or that they will have the same impact on the body any more than saying an inch is an inch is saying that 12 inches of baby is interchangeable with 12 inches of python.
Different people feel good with different macro distributions. I prefer more carbohydrates and fat than some other people. But I'm not sure it is regional, but I have siblings that prefer really different types of diets. People are just different, that's all.14 -
Why are you eating a diet that's causing you health problems? I have certain foods that causing me issues. I don't eat them.1
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stevencloser wrote: »It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.
If my body reacts to something with inflammation, digestive issues and increased cholesterol, is that not a warning sign?0 -
If I became a raw vegan from one day to another I'd bet with you I'd feel like dying too. Doesn't mean I couldn't be one.3
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Yes a calorie is a calorie.5
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dudebro200 wrote: »Sure, eat a deficit and lose weight. That's obvious, but I am not sure that regional diets are compatible with all humans. If you're an Inuit, you can eat nothing but meat and fat, and feel fine. I have been eating minimal to no grains and only veggies/meat for a few months. While I have lost weight, my cholesterol shot up to 330 (I just turned 35). I have unending constipation. I feel straight-up weird. All of this just to maintain my muscle mass while I cut. I want to keep certain deficit and maintain certain level of protien, which means carbs have to go.
I've eaten mostly meat and veg, no grains (I'm not that into grains) for a while, and no hardship ensued. My ancestry is all European.
I've also eaten mostly plant based (all plant based for a period of time) and had no problems.
I do think there can be some differences in carb tolerance, sure, especially with populations like the Inuit, but humans traditionally are able to adapt to most any diet. Pre potato, the Irish diet was largely dairy, and then it switched. That's a significant difference. Potatoes didn't make them unhealthy ('til the blight, of course, and the ensuing lack of potatoes). A good book that discusses human variability and adaptability is Diet Cults.
That said, if you individually feel better on one diet vs. another, go for it. I doubt it's because of your ethnic background (and where our ancestors were if you go back far enough we don't really know and it probably varied -- I've had a mitochondrial DNA test so know that, at least, but it's meaningless to me now).2 -
I am of eastern European descent, but was born and raised in Central Asia (for those not familiar it is one of the -stan countries), now living in western Europe. I don't consume grains and follow a diet high in protein and fat. No problems with digestion ever. It has more to do with your surroundings than ethnic heritage in my opinion. In the age of globalization i don't think any sort of diets linked to your ethnicity really apply..2
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Harbin2017 wrote: »I am of eastern European descent, but was born and raised in Central Asia (for those not familiar it is one of the -stan countries), now living in western Europe. I don't consume grains and follow a diet high in protein and fat. No problems with digestion ever. It has more to do with your surroundings than ethnic heritage in my opinion. In the age of globalization i don't think any sort of diets linked to your ethnicity really apply..
Here's an article on the study.
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-agriculture-dietary-fat-metabolism-ancient.html#jCp
It was based on seeing changes between modern europeans and bronze age europeans. If digestive genes were under selection and continue to be under selection, then this is a serious revelation that needs to be considered for dietary recommendations.
"In the new study, Nielsen and his colleagues examine data from 101 Bronze Age individuals and present-day human data from the 1000 Genomes Project. Nielsen's research team analyzed adaptive mutations in the FADS region in Europeans, to determine which mutations might have been targeted by recent natural selection in Europeans and to investigate the physiological effects of the mutations.
They found that certain single DNA mutations (SNPs) have been targeted by selection in Europeans since the Bronze Age, and likely before that as well, to increase the production of the long-chain PUFAs: arachidonic and eicosapentaenoic acid. This pattern mirrors the one observed in some Indian populations but is exactly opposite of that observed in the Greenlandic Inuit. Individuals on a more vegetarian diet ingest more short-chain PUFAs, while individuals having a high intake of animal fat ingest more long-chain PUFAs. The need for additional production of these PUFAs, therefore, depends on the dietary intake. As Inuit switched to a diet based on marine mammals, they would need to produce fewer long-chain PUFAs, but when people in India switched to a more vegetarian diet they would need to increase the production."0 -
There also appears to be a difference between Northern and Southern Europe.
"Diets are not equal for all people, ancestral homelands can make a difference"
Diets are not equal for all people, ancestral homelands can make a difference
[Digital Trends]
Bruce Brown
Digital TrendsMarch 20, 2017
genome study adaptation vegetables vegan or paleo
genome study adaptation vegetables vegan or paleo
lightwise / 123RF Stock Photo
Thinking about going vegan or paleo?
Proponents of specific food class-centric diets such as paleo, vegan, gluten-free, ketogenic, or the Mediterranean diet often but not always tend to prescribe their plans for everyone. Not so fast, says a group from the University of California, Berkeley. Biologists at UC Berkeley and other institutions around the world have published research that shows genetic differences from natural selection based on dietary changes in Europe, Ars Technica reports.
According to the research, for example, if you live in Europe, and particularly in southern Europe, your body is optimized to digest and process plant-based diets. Natives of Greenland, specifically the Inuit, are better at processing meat fat.
More: Looking for a paleo or gluten-free meal kit? Sun Basket delivers the goods
The researchers compared genomes from hundreds of contemporary humans and 101 genome sequences from Bronze Age humans who lived in Europe 5,000 years ago. They found DNA changed significantly in the last 5,000 years.
The science behind the studies is based on examining two genes that regulate how fatty acids in foods are converted into the “long-chain” form used by humans for tissue health, including the brain and muscles. Plants such as wheat and vegetables provide “short-chain” fatty acids and must be converted to the long-form type in order for the human body to use them.
In its genome studies, the researchers found that southern European genomes mutated to produce more long-chain fatty acids from the shorter variation. This change, they argue, is due to evolutionary “pressure” from a diet that changed to accommodate more plant-based foods. The Inuit genome, however, had no such influence, which means Inuit genes aren’t equipped to convert as great a quantity of long-chain fatty acids because they don’t as much need it.
The general take on this research: There is no one best diet or nutritional bias for all people. If your ancestors are all from the 10 countries that make up northern Europe, for example, the study indicates you could be more likely better equipped to thrive on a diet having a higher proportion of meat. People of southern European ancestry, however, might do better with diets that lean toward plant-based foods.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/choose-diet-ancestors-ate-172322076.html0 -
I don't think anyone's arguing that different people feel better eating different ways, for different reasons. I don't understand what that has to do with "Is a calorie really a calorie?". Because you're discussing different diets, not different values for the calories they contain. Or am I missing something?7
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A calorie is the amount of energy it takes to raise the temperature of a gram of water one degree. Just saying6
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I don't think anyone's arguing that different people feel better eating different ways, for different reasons. I don't understand what that has to do with "Is a calorie really a calorie?". Because you're discussing different diets, not different values for the calories they contain. Or am I missing something?
I have a feeling the title is clickbait.
I'm still wondering why OP is eating food that makes him ill.5 -
I don't think anyone's arguing that different people feel better eating different ways, for different reasons. I don't understand what that has to do with "Is a calorie really a calorie?". Because you're discussing different diets, not different values for the calories they contain. Or am I missing something?
I have a feeling the title is clickbait.
I'm still wondering why OP is eating food that makes him ill.
Ah! That makes sense!2 -
A calorie is the amount of energy required to heat 1 ccm of water by 1 degree c, so yes a calorie is always a calorie. Having said that:
1) obviously don't get all of your calories from cake. You could eat cake in a deficit all day long, you'd probably still lose weight, and you'd probably be sick as a dog from consuming only sugar, grains, and minimal dairy. A balanced diet is obviously important
2) There is probably (definitely?) some selection going on in digestive genetics. As with anything else, when a population is repeatedly exposed to something toxic, nature selects those within the population who can withstand it. People in tropical countries tend to have dark skin because melanin protects against deadly UV rays. Northern european populations and The Masai tolerate dairy because they have long been cattle raising people, the reason we don't see abnormal rates of microencephaly in southeast asian cultures is probably due to the fact that the disease has been endemic there for half a century and immunity has likely developed.
There is some proof (Max Planck did a study) that what you're saying is true. People with a genetic background that strongly favors agricultural heritage tend to have more copies of amalayse than people who don't. I found that interesting because I have the opposite problem you do- my body HATES grains. It doesn't seem to matter what kind- corn, wheat, rye, even to a lesser degree rice, all make my stomach turn knots.
I'm a big believer in moderation and eating things that don't make you feel like crap. There are ways to cut without eliminating all grains and if it makes you feel terrible, its likely doing more harm than good- in any case it certainly isn't sustainable. Don't make yourself suffer, find an alternative
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dudebro200 wrote: »There also appears to be a difference between Northern and Southern Europe.
Oh, dear. Guess I better not eat the Med diet.
(In the last week I've made pasta at home, had Indian food, and had Ethiopian food. Guess I should feel awful.)
I do think what you eat matters to how you feel -- there's even a good explanation of part of this in the book I cited above -- but I think you are assuming too much based on that.2 -
dudebro200 wrote: »Multiple times in history, we have seen Aboriginal people switch from a meat and veggie diet to a neothilic diet and instantly become overweight, suffer heart disease, sloth and a whole host of other dietary related problems. Then they return to the bush and these problems get fixed.
Why attribute this to diet rather than to environment and culture? Would we not expect people living in "the bush" to have to work harder to obtain food? Could it be that the amount of food served at family meals is smaller? Perhaps overeating is taboo in those cultures, unlike in the western world where the all you can eat buffet is celebrated, prizes are given to people who can eat the biggest steak, and we are constantly told that "big is beautiful." Could it be that people eat more with a fork an knife than they do with chopsticks? Could it be that people who live in a densely populated country are more likely to walk or ride bicycles to their destination?5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »dudebro200 wrote: »There also appears to be a difference between Northern and Southern Europe.
Oh, dear. Guess I better not eat the Med diet.
(In the last week I've made pasta at home, had Indian food, and had Ethiopian food. Guess I should feel awful.)
I do think what you eat matters to how you feel -- there's even a good explanation of part of this in the book I cited above -- but I think you are assuming too much based on that.
Assuming too much? There appears to be some hard evidence that regional diets and regional genetics may not always be compatible. Dairy based diets are just one example of this.
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TimothyFish wrote: »dudebro200 wrote: »Multiple times in history, we have seen Aboriginal people switch from a meat and veggie diet to a neothilic diet and instantly become overweight, suffer heart disease, sloth and a whole host of other dietary related problems. Then they return to the bush and these problems get fixed.
Why attribute this to diet rather than to environment and culture? Would we not expect people living in "the bush" to have to work harder to obtain food? Could it be that the amount of food served at family meals is smaller? Perhaps overeating is taboo in those cultures, unlike in the western world where the all you can eat buffet is celebrated, prizes are given to people who can eat the biggest steak, and we are constantly told that "big is beautiful." Could it be that people eat more with a fork an knife than they do with chopsticks? Could it be that people who live in a densely populated country are more likely to walk or ride bicycles to their destination?
Recent studies have shown that energy output between Hunter gathers and westerners is about the same.
It's easy to speculate when genetic evidence isn't involved, but genetic evidence is involved in analogous cases now.
We seem to think we are above genetics, I am.not sure that's the case. I think it's an important factor in life planning0 -
I have Northern and Southern European ancestors.
I guess I can't eat anything.6 -
When I up my protein and lower my carbs I can get a bit backed up, but I attribute my diet being a bit lower in fiber when I eat that way.
My heritage is mostly Irish/German not sure where that puts me on the Northern/Southern European scale though.
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dudebro200 wrote: »Recent studies have shown that energy output between Hunter gathers and westerners is about the same.
That might have something to do with westerners being much fatter. It takes a lot of energy to move a bigger body through a sedentary life.1 -
Bottom line, why not just eat in a way that makes you feel good? How low are your calories and how high is your protein that you can't allow some carbs that you feel like death the entire time. And how long have you been doing it because it does take some time for the body to adapt.
I'm a female close to goal, I don't have a lot of wiggle room but you can be damn sure I can fit in carbs and still hit my protein goal.2 -
Imagine growing up eating a certain diet. You know, without knowing the numbers, how much you need to feel satisfied and to maintain a healthy body - we learn it from infancy (hopefully). Now imagine you suddenly change your diet when you are older. What instincts do you have that help you tell how much is enough or how you should feel when you're full? This is probably the main part of the issue. If you have nothing to relate it to, how do you know enough is enough? The way I feel full of veggies feels very different to me than the way I feel when I am full of pasta.0
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dudebro200 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »dudebro200 wrote: »There also appears to be a difference between Northern and Southern Europe.
Oh, dear. Guess I better not eat the Med diet.
(In the last week I've made pasta at home, had Indian food, and had Ethiopian food. Guess I should feel awful.)
I do think what you eat matters to how you feel -- there's even a good explanation of part of this in the book I cited above -- but I think you are assuming too much based on that.
Assuming too much? There appears to be some hard evidence that regional diets and regional genetics may not always be compatible. Dairy based diets are just one example of this.
I actually thought you were, and the second article seemed to read a lot in to the study that was not said. The first article was good. None of it suggests that you have a genetic need to eat low protein or without meat, although vegetarian can be a good choice for lots of other reasons.
Assuming that we should decide what diet to follow based on specific ethnicity seems silly, though (as in Swedes eat X, Italians eat Y). This is especially true as Europeans tend to be pretty mixed up if you go back far enough (as far as you are talking about, which is why the results in both cases are mixed). Populations like the Inuit are rare.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I have Northern and Southern European ancestors.
I guess I can't eat anything.
Or you can eat everything?1 -
stevencloser wrote: »It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.
This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.0 -
If I looked deeply into stuff like this there would be no way I could sustainably lose weight and be passionate and have determination to do it when I'm second guessing everything. I'm Italian, does that mean my diet has to be composed of the stereotypical Italian diet?
100 calories of broccoli is EXACTLY the same as 100 calories of chocolate. The amount and satiation of each does differ although.2
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