Clean eating- does it matter?
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I used to be exactly like your friend!!
This time around I've been eating clean, and it's clearly a better choice. I do know it's hard to not want to jump in and tell her that your way is better, even though it is (and I indulge sometimes) but I think the best thing you can do is just keep doing what you're doing, the more she sees your success and happiness, she's going to want to know how you're not starving when she is!
That's what I've been doing with my mom- we have both been working at weight loss, and while I don't think a full on lean cuisine diet is healthy, I have always congratulated her weight loss, as she does mine.. but now she's seeing my yummy food and that I'm not saying "I'm starving!" Every night, now she's starting to ask me how I made this or that.. I'm sure your friend will catch on!2 -
I only have so many calories in a day and I don't like to waste them on foods that aren't nutritionally dense. I do once in a while but I've made a habit of finding ways to make the "treats" I really like in a way that's more beneficial to me and my health. Things like using a whole grain flour instead of white flour or adding protein powder to baked goods to better keep on track with my protein goals. Making my own soups and stews that contain a higher concentration and much wider variety of vegetables and protein sources than most commercially available products, and without the long list of additives and preservatives. Eating plain sugarless yogurt and using stevia and whole berries/fruits to sweeten instead of HFCS found in most commercial yogurts. If I indulge with my yogurt I use maple syrup which is very high in manganese, good levels of B2 and Zinc and lower levels of other vitamins and minerals vs. white sugar which has no nutritional value beyond carbs. Making my own smoothies/protein shakes and including vegetables and greens.
The small choices I make really add up at the end of the day.5 -
FreyasRebirth wrote: »Maybe. In order to get sufficient vitamins and minerals, you're going to have to dip into "clean eating" a little bit (whole grains, sufficient fruit and vegetables) but being extremist about it is just going to complicate things. Heck, sometimes processed stuff is better than fresh. Frozen and canned fruit/vegetables retain more of their vitamins than fresh fruit/vegetables. Unless you're getting it directly and promptly from the farm, the vitamins have already degraded significantly.
"University of California studies show that vegetables can lose 15 to 55 percent of vitamin C, for instance, within a week. Some spinach can lose 90 percent within the first 24 hours after harvest."
They don't cite the study in the article where the info came from. And no one in the UC cites only the UC for credit for research. There are 10 UCs and each one wants all the rep points it can get. Without the context of the actual study, the info seems a little suspect to me.2 -
I don't think there's anything wrong with a diet made up of predominantly "healthy" "clean" "nutritious" foods. But i also think there's nothing wrong with throwing in a treat or two here and there either.
As long as the junk food or treats don't overtake the nutritious foods then i don't see a problem with incorporating not 100% clean, nutrient dense food into the mix.8 -
I agree. It's easier to throw in treats if you have a higher calorie limit to work within. If you're restricting calories a lot, empty calories from treats are likely to crowd out more nutritious foods that you might need. But if your calorie limit is pretty high, you have more room for extras. It's basically a budget, as @JohnnyPenso mentioned.Christine_72 wrote: »I don't think there's anything wrong with a diet made up of predominantly "healthy" "clean" "nutritious" foods. But i also think there's nothing wrong with throwing in a treat or two here and there either.
As long as the junk food or treats don't overtake the nutritious foods then i don't see a problem with incorporating not 100% clean, nutrient dense food into the mix.2 -
I agree. It's easier to throw in treats if you have a higher calorie limit to work within. If you're restricting calories a lot, empty calories from treats are likely to crowd out more nutritious foods that you might need. But if your calorie limit is pretty high, you have more room for extras. It's basically a budget, as @JohnnyPenso mentioned.Christine_72 wrote: »I don't think there's anything wrong with a diet made up of predominantly "healthy" "clean" "nutritious" foods. But i also think there's nothing wrong with throwing in a treat or two here and there either.
As long as the junk food or treats don't overtake the nutritious foods then i don't see a problem with incorporating not 100% clean, nutrient dense food into the mix.
I eat pretty clean and have no trouble sneaking in a 150 calorie 'treat' on a 1200 calorie day. I still get my 800g of veggies a day, lean protein, a serve of dairy...3 -
FreyasRebirth wrote: »Maybe. In order to get sufficient vitamins and minerals, you're going to have to dip into "clean eating" a little bit (whole grains, sufficient fruit and vegetables) but being extremist about it is just going to complicate things. Heck, sometimes processed stuff is better than fresh. Frozen and canned fruit/vegetables retain more of their vitamins than fresh fruit/vegetables. Unless you're getting it directly and promptly from the farm, the vitamins have already degraded significantly.
"University of California studies show that vegetables can lose 15 to 55 percent of vitamin C, for instance, within a week. Some spinach can lose 90 percent within the first 24 hours after harvest."
They don't cite the study in the article where the info came from. And no one in the UC cites only the UC for credit for research. There are 10 UCs and each one wants all the rep points it can get. Without the context of the actual study, the info seems a little suspect to me.
Not to mention that although vitamin C is one of the more volatile vitamins in vegetables (lost more than other things in cooking but I'm highly doubting the numbers above for simple transport) it's so abundant that even if more than half of it is lost you can still end up way over DV if you like vegetables. For perspective, one yellow pepper has more than enough vitamin C even if 80% of it was lost (very doubtful). I'm consistently over 500% vitamin C and I don't eat clean. It doesn't take much to get adequate nutrition and clean eating (or focusing on frozen foods for that purpose for that matter) is majoring in minors and putting more focus on areas that don't need as much focus on a balanced diet.
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I think the thing that bugs me the most about these "clean eating" posts, besides the fact that there is no actual definition, is that the zealots imply that they NEVER eat anything else. It's hard to believe so many people never have a glass of wine at a wedding, eat a Christmas cookie, a piece of pie in Thanksgiving, or a special dinner on vacation. Not to mention that plenty of the food they claim is unprocessed of course is - like 90% of food.12
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I think the thing that bugs me the most about these "clean eating" posts, besides the fact that there is no actual definition, is that the zealots imply that they NEVER eat anything else. It's hard to believe so many people never have a glass of wine at a wedding, eat a Christmas cookie, a piece of pie in Thanksgiving, or a special dinner on vacation. Not to mention that plenty of the food they claim is unprocessed of course is - like 90% of food.
What bugs me even more is the closed-minded, binary thinking displayed in most "clean eating" threads. That there are only two possibilities - either you eat "clean" 100 percent of the time, or you lay around on the couch shoveling sugar and fat down your slovenly, nasty, dirty, sick and disease-ridden throat by the pound. No possibility whatsoever that there could be any sensible, reasonable middle ground between the two extremes.
Lyle McDonald wrote a great piece about exactly that topic: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html/26 -
I think the thing that bugs me the most about these "clean eating" posts, besides the fact that there is no actual definition, is that the zealots imply that they NEVER eat anything else. It's hard to believe so many people never have a glass of wine at a wedding, eat a Christmas cookie, a piece of pie in Thanksgiving, or a special dinner on vacation. Not to mention that plenty of the food they claim is unprocessed of course is - like 90% of food.
There is one consistent definition for clean eating that distinguishes it from simply eating a diet with a good balance of nutrients: clean eating is the act of assigning a moral hierarchy for food to where it's almost an expression of identity and virtuousness (I'm a disciplined person and I take care of my body and you don't), whereas a normal diet is simply nourishment in various degrees without guilt inducing categorization.
Some cases are quite odd, to be honest. Eat beans at home and they're clean (at least by some definitions), but put them in a burrito and sell it at Taco Bell, and they'll acquire the "dirty" label right away and somehow lose all their nutrients.32 -
WinoGelato wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »It might help to clarify which version of clean eating we're talking about.
Calories matter for weight loss. Good nutrition matters for things like hunger and health. But those can both be achieved with or without a "clean" diet.
Your diary shows a really low fat intake. I just want to be sure you're being smart about that because I can't imagine keeping my fat that low (and I have to stay low fat without my gallbladder).
Best of luck with your goals! :flowerforyou:
I have to eat low fat because fat cause my skin to break out and give me breakouts but I make sure I get my omegas from my greens on chronometer and if I don't, I'll have a tbsp of seeds. All my blood work is perfect for the first time in my life. I think eating clean just helps you feel full. For example, I'm going to feel a lot more full on a giant salad then two Oreos so I feel like it would be harder to feel full without eating clean
Who makes a choice between a giant salad, or two oreos? What harm will I come to, if I eat a salad AND eat Oreos, when I have room in my calories for both?
She already stated that eating Oreos would not make her feel full (and presumably would lead to overeating).
If you are someone who can eat anything, anytime and stay in tiptop shape, well then..hallelujah.
I make good steaks.
Eating Oreos instead of a salad would not make her feel full. Me neither. I really can't think of a time when I was trying to decide between a salad, which I would consider a meal, and two Oreos, which I would consider dessert. My point is that why does there always have to be this false dilemma? Are there people who choose to eat Oreos instead of a sensible meal? Not that they choose to consume Oreos after a sensible meal, but instead of? Those are the scenarios that are always proposed in these threads and they just don't seem realistic to me.
Eat anything, any time and stay in tip top shape? I don't think I would go that far, but I don't see how my comments indicate that I believe that I do that. I'm not striving for top top shape.... I'm striving for generally healthy and happy, and a diet that includes a variety of Whole Foods, processed foods, and even Oreos in moderation - helps me achieve that.
The problem is you are speaking from the perspective of someone who's healthy and rational and balanced.
But nothing is rational or absurd, rare about this false dilemma when it comes to food choice for people with eating disorder.
I think it's encouraging that the OP finds salad to be a solution for her, however it may seem trivial to you. Also, people like me could read more from it and develop other ideas. It doesn't have to be for a meal. Anytime I feel hungry, instead of going for Oreos, I can preemptively eat a big salad.
Does it mean I think Oreos are bad? No. But while dealing with an eating disorder, I need to pick a side and decide that Oreos would derail my effort and need to be avoided. It's like an alcoholic forgoing alcohol drinks completely to deal with his problem instead of striving for a balance like responsible drinkers do.4 -
From what I heard from a dietician, cleaner eating does matter in the long term for optimal health. There should be enough of each food group (protein,carbs, veggies, fat) at each meal or the body will be lacking in other areas potentially compromising long term health. For weight loss, both ways cleaner vs junkier eating(I.e too much fat) will contribute to weight loss in the short term (calories in/out) just the same; but not in the long term. Eventually if too much junk is eaten, ie fast food every day, weight loss will slow down due to imbalance in macros. Not sure how accurate this is but that's what I was told.2
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cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
I don't understand why some people enjoy sugar in their coffee. It tastes absolutely vile to me. I'd rather put salt in my coffee. But I don't think they're pretending. And I know the fact that I hate sweet coffee doesn't make it unhealthy for other people.
And when you're in the minority on a food preference, like I am on coffee, it probably makes sense to think maybe you might be the one with the weird taste buds.
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A balanced diet with adequate nutrition matters in the long term for optimal health. Not somebody's arbitary definition of "clean". And it's a worthless exercise to judge individual foods as "healthy" or "unhealthy". Context and dosage matter. Judge by the overall content of the diet as a whole.TwntyOnePointTwo wrote: »From what I heard from a dietician, cleaner eating does matter in the long term for optimal health...
It's irrelevant whether macro and micronutrients are balanced in every meal or just in the overall picture. The body doesn't reset and tally calories or macronutrients on a daily basis, nutrition and weight loss/gain happens on a continuum.TwntyOnePointTwo wrote: »...There should be enough of each food group (protein,carbs, veggies, fat) at each meal or the body will be lacking in other areas potentially compromising long term health...
This is not true. Google "Twinkie Diet" for starters. Speaking purely in terms of weight loss, calories are all that matter.TwntyOnePointTwo wrote: »For weight loss, both ways cleaner vs junkier eating(I.e too much fat) will contribute to weight loss in the short term (calories in/out) just the same; but not in the long term. Eventually if too much junk is eaten, ie fast food every day, weight loss will slow down due to imbalance in macros. Not sure how accurate this is but that's what I was told.8 -
In my experience, many people who use the term "clean" when referring to foods seem to think their food choices are morally superior. Or they have fallen into the diet/fitness industries spell.
I cook a lot of my own foods, except yesterday, when I had cookies and potato chips for breakfast. I'm stressed, and IDGAF. It's one "meal".fasterpssycat wrote: »My benchmark - are things listed on the label identifiable foods with sources I can know without a Google search or is it a chemical name I'd have to look up to locate the source?
My vocabulary is fairly decent, so can haz all the food, right?Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »fasterpssycat wrote: »My benchmark - are things listed on the label identifiable foods with sources I can know without a Google search or is it a chemical name I'd have to look up to locate the source?
This is why scientists get to eat a wider variety of food......
And lovers of Latin!
What about Latin lovers?
I agree. It's easier to throw in treats if you have a higher calorie limit to work within. If you're restricting calories a lot, empty calories from treats are likely to crowd out more nutritious foods that you might need. But if your calorie limit is pretty high, you have more room for extras. It's basically a budget, as @JohnnyPenso mentioned.Christine_72 wrote: »I don't think there's anything wrong with a diet made up of predominantly "healthy" "clean" "nutritious" foods. But i also think there's nothing wrong with throwing in a treat or two here and there either.
As long as the junk food or treats don't overtake the nutritious foods then i don't see a problem with incorporating not 100% clean, nutrient dense food into the mix.
I find that to get a decent variety of foods while hitting my micros, I need about 1550 calories. That's still enough for a reasonable weight loss. Could it be done with fewer? Sure. But I don't feel the need. I want to enjoy meals out, some treats, now and again. People need to make choices. I knew that the mindset that I had to eat all healthy all the time, left me feeling like a miserable failure. For my own sanity, it's better to eat a bit more and have a treat.12 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »It might help to clarify which version of clean eating we're talking about.
Calories matter for weight loss. Good nutrition matters for things like hunger and health. But those can both be achieved with or without a "clean" diet.
Your diary shows a really low fat intake. I just want to be sure you're being smart about that because I can't imagine keeping my fat that low (and I have to stay low fat without my gallbladder).
Best of luck with your goals! :flowerforyou:
I have to eat low fat because fat cause my skin to break out and give me breakouts but I make sure I get my omegas from my greens on chronometer and if I don't, I'll have a tbsp of seeds. All my blood work is perfect for the first time in my life. I think eating clean just helps you feel full. For example, I'm going to feel a lot more full on a giant salad then two Oreos so I feel like it would be harder to feel full without eating clean
Who makes a choice between a giant salad, or two oreos? What harm will I come to, if I eat a salad AND eat Oreos, when I have room in my calories for both?
She already stated that eating Oreos would not make her feel full (and presumably would lead to overeating).
If you are someone who can eat anything, anytime and stay in tiptop shape, well then..hallelujah.
I make good steaks.
Eating Oreos instead of a salad would not make her feel full. Me neither. I really can't think of a time when I was trying to decide between a salad, which I would consider a meal, and two Oreos, which I would consider dessert. My point is that why does there always have to be this false dilemma? Are there people who choose to eat Oreos instead of a sensible meal? Not that they choose to consume Oreos after a sensible meal, but instead of? Those are the scenarios that are always proposed in these threads and they just don't seem realistic to me.
Eat anything, any time and stay in tip top shape? I don't think I would go that far, but I don't see how my comments indicate that I believe that I do that. I'm not striving for top top shape.... I'm striving for generally healthy and happy, and a diet that includes a variety of Whole Foods, processed foods, and even Oreos in moderation - helps me achieve that.
The problem is you are speaking from the perspective of someone who's healthy and rational and balanced.
But nothing is rational or absurd, rare about this false dilemma when it comes to food choice for people with eating disorder.
I think it's encouraging that the OP finds salad to be a solution for her, however it may seem trivial to you. Also, people like me could read more from it and develop other ideas. It doesn't have to be for a meal. Anytime I feel hungry, instead of going for Oreos, I can preemptively eat a big salad.
Does it mean I think Oreos are bad? No. But while dealing with an eating disorder, I need to pick a side and decide that Oreos would derail my effort and need to be avoided. It's like an alcoholic forgoing alcohol drinks completely to deal with his problem instead of striving for a balance like responsible drinkers do.
Whilst I respect and empathise with your situation it is completely different from the average person, this has sort of been brought up before. Should we, in every thread, tiptoe round and cover every single eventuality and medical issue someone might be dealing with if they haven't disclosed that to be an issue?
That's something someone should be working on with their treatment team if they have one. It's not my responsibility or expertise to make sure that when I say you can have a salad and an Orea that someone with an ED might be thrown for a loop because they find the notion in conflict with themselves. It's horrible for that person no doubt, but this isn't an ED specific support forum.18 -
VintageFeline wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »It might help to clarify which version of clean eating we're talking about.
Calories matter for weight loss. Good nutrition matters for things like hunger and health. But those can both be achieved with or without a "clean" diet.
Your diary shows a really low fat intake. I just want to be sure you're being smart about that because I can't imagine keeping my fat that low (and I have to stay low fat without my gallbladder).
Best of luck with your goals! :flowerforyou:
I have to eat low fat because fat cause my skin to break out and give me breakouts but I make sure I get my omegas from my greens on chronometer and if I don't, I'll have a tbsp of seeds. All my blood work is perfect for the first time in my life. I think eating clean just helps you feel full. For example, I'm going to feel a lot more full on a giant salad then two Oreos so I feel like it would be harder to feel full without eating clean
Who makes a choice between a giant salad, or two oreos? What harm will I come to, if I eat a salad AND eat Oreos, when I have room in my calories for both?
She already stated that eating Oreos would not make her feel full (and presumably would lead to overeating).
If you are someone who can eat anything, anytime and stay in tiptop shape, well then..hallelujah.
I make good steaks.
Eating Oreos instead of a salad would not make her feel full. Me neither. I really can't think of a time when I was trying to decide between a salad, which I would consider a meal, and two Oreos, which I would consider dessert. My point is that why does there always have to be this false dilemma? Are there people who choose to eat Oreos instead of a sensible meal? Not that they choose to consume Oreos after a sensible meal, but instead of? Those are the scenarios that are always proposed in these threads and they just don't seem realistic to me.
Eat anything, any time and stay in tip top shape? I don't think I would go that far, but I don't see how my comments indicate that I believe that I do that. I'm not striving for top top shape.... I'm striving for generally healthy and happy, and a diet that includes a variety of Whole Foods, processed foods, and even Oreos in moderation - helps me achieve that.
The problem is you are speaking from the perspective of someone who's healthy and rational and balanced.
But nothing is rational or absurd, rare about this false dilemma when it comes to food choice for people with eating disorder.
I think it's encouraging that the OP finds salad to be a solution for her, however it may seem trivial to you. Also, people like me could read more from it and develop other ideas. It doesn't have to be for a meal. Anytime I feel hungry, instead of going for Oreos, I can preemptively eat a big salad.
Does it mean I think Oreos are bad? No. But while dealing with an eating disorder, I need to pick a side and decide that Oreos would derail my effort and need to be avoided. It's like an alcoholic forgoing alcohol drinks completely to deal with his problem instead of striving for a balance like responsible drinkers do.
Whilst I respect and empathise with your situation it is completely different from the average person, this has sort of been brought up before. Should we, in every thread, tiptoe round and cover every single eventuality and medical issue someone might be dealing with if they haven't disclosed that to be an issue?
That's something someone should be working on with their treatment team if they have one. It's not my responsibility or expertise to make sure that when I say you can have a salad and an Orea that someone with an ED might be thrown for a loop because they find the notion in conflict with themselves. It's horrible for that person no doubt, but this isn't an ED specific support forum.
I second this, in addition to the fact that very few people would automatically think "Oreos" when hungry. People don't eat cookies to feel full, they eat them because they are enjoyable. I eat Oreos sometimes (I don't have moderation issues with them) but I have never ever caught myself thinking "I'm hungry, I need to eat some Oreos". My line of thought tends to automatically bounce to tuna or boiled potatoes, or even a small sandwich for a hunger reducing snack. The only times I find myself going for Oreos is when my line of thought goes like "I feel like having Oreos, they taste nice".11 -
fasterpssycat wrote: »My benchmark - are things listed on the label identifiable foods with sources I can know without a Google search or is it a chemical name I'd have to look up to locate the source?
Why are you assuming there's a label at all. Most of what I eat (and I'd assume what most eat) doesn't have a label. Vegetables, fruit, dried beans, nuts, tubers, oats, meat (can have a label, but wouldn't have ingredients normally, often no label), eggs, dairy (again, often will have a label depending on where purchased, but single ingredient UNLESS you misunderstand the label on plain yogurt). Most things with labels (ALL of which are processed) have few ingredients: dried pasta (wheat, water), canned tomatoes, canned beans or tomatoes, frozen fruit or veg, so on.
However, when it comes to those names you have to look up, if you don't understand them, look them up, often they aren't anything upsetting (as with the yogurt example, or sometimes added vitamins, or a whole bunch of other things). Many people who eat them may even know what they are -- assuming understanding words makes food healthy or not makes no sense.
I happen to not care for frozen meals because I'm a food snob and like my own cooking, but to assume they are all nutritionally void because packaged makes no sense. They are wildly varied. Some are much better nutritionally than others, they have different ingredients, if you like them you can add veg or protein on the side to make them more filling. Also, and my main point with clean eating, why does it have to be all or nothing? Why not mostly cook from whole ingredients but if you find using some processed stuff makes life tastier or easier, include it too, as appropriate. Assuming that eating processed vs. not = bad nutrition vs. good or fat vs. not or bad vs. good and that you ruin everything if you get home late one day and eat an Amy's meal supplemented with some veg is magical thinking and, IMO, not wildly useful. When you use it to judge how others eat, it's worse.
Should people eat healthfully? Sure, it's good for them. Does that require clean eating (or is clean eating really about nutritional principles)? No, and not really.9
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